The Invasion Angle

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Austin's character was good at the time, the only problem was that other than RVD and maybe Angle, the rest of the Alliance was made to look like a bunch of jobber lackeys. Remember that one show where Austin just bitched out the whole Alliance, and they all just stood there and took it?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Aside from Hogan and Flair, would any of these WCW guys have been worth a damn? Nash and Steiner both were crap in WWE, though Nash did have one decent outing against HHH at Bad Blood 2003. Goldberg was never really accepted by WWE fans.

Of course they would have been worth a damn. Physical conditions aside, they were major names and would have given the ill-fated Invasion angle a boost. Sure, Nash and Steiner were physically shot, but that's something you can work around. Have the younger guys work the bulk of the matches and only put Nash, Steiner and the like in for a few minutes to do their big moves and then tag out.

 

Goldberg was accepted by WWE fans, but only when he was being the Goldberg they wanted him to be. When Goldberg was booked as a monster, WWE fans went nuts for him. Witness his showing up at MSG, where he would admittedly get booed on his final night in, and he blew the roof off the place when he came out to end the Rodney Mack 5-minute 'white boy' challenge. Check out Summerslam in the EC match he was in. When Goldberg was being Goldberg, and kicking the crap out of people, the place was going crazy and they were ready to explode into the stratosphere when they thought he was going to lay waste to Triple H and win the gold belt.

 

The aforementioned names would have been tremendously effective in any well booked Invasion angle, but therein lies the problem with the Invasion angle in the first place. It was never going to work, and the outsider angle has never worked in WWE, because Vince cannot make 'outside' talent look superior to his homemade stars, even when the 'outsiders' are his own talent.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

The fact that Austin and Angle managed to come out of the whole thing strong is a credit to them, but no one else had a chance. This was also Undertaker's worst period for me.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Austin's character was good at the time, the only problem was that other than RVD and maybe Angle, the rest of the Alliance was made to look like a bunch of jobber lackeys. Remember that one show where Austin just bitched out the whole Alliance, and they all just stood there and took it?

 

"Your name is... Hugh Morrus? What? Is that supposed to be humourous? What?"

 

That was fantastic, but it provided one of the biggest missed opportunities of the whole Invasion angle, running Stone Cold vs. Tazz. I guess by then they'd already decided on the ending and turning Austin back to a face, but I believe they could have made Tazz into a star if they'd matched him up to Austin. The fans were begging for it.

[Special K 0]

Angle also started out really strong as the top WWE face vs, Austin, with classic goofy moments such as the milk truck, yet being insane when he got into the ring.

 

Then 9/11 and you can't have Mr. America be a goof, so they made him a cocky face, which he really coudln't play.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Austin's character was good at the time, the only problem was that other than RVD and maybe Angle, the rest of the Alliance was made to look like a bunch of jobber lackeys. Remember that one show where Austin just bitched out the whole Alliance, and they all just stood there and took it?

 

"Your name is... Hugh Morrus? What? Is that supposed to be humourous? What?"

 

That was fantastic, but it provided one of the biggest missed opportunities of the whole Invasion angle, running Stone Cold vs. Tazz. I guess by then they'd already decided on the ending and turning Austin back to a face, but I believe they could have made Tazz into a star if they'd matched him up to Austin. The fans were begging for it.

 

They did match them up. Tazz jobbed in two minutes, IIRC.

[cabbageboy 0]

I seem to also recall WWE fans crapping on Goldberg when he faced The Rock at Backlash. And also Jericho at Bad Blood 2003. Add to it that he only signed a 1 year deal and had seemingly no real respect for WWE. So why go out of your way to push Goldberg?

 

When Nash and Steiner did show up, they were mostly horrid in WWE. Nash tore his quad literally walking across the ring. Steiner was a fiasco when they put him against HHH (too soon admittedly). Honestly, what money were guys like Nash and Steiner drawing in WCW? .10 buyrates baby!

 

Given that these guys all showed up in WWE eventually and none lasted especially long or got over consistently, why would an Invasion with them have been so different? It likely would have been the same crappy matches to go with the "Why are these hasbeens getting pushed?" questions.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I seem to also recall WWE fans crapping on Goldberg when he faced The Rock at Backlash. And also Jericho at Bad Blood 2003. Add to it that he only signed a 1 year deal and had seemingly no real respect for WWE. So why go out of your way to push Goldberg?

 

The build up to Goldberg vs. Rock was terrible. They did just about every single thing wrong you can do with a Goldberg-type character, from the comedy to having him get punked out twice in the same show and so on. Goldberg had gone from being Goldberg, someone special, to just another name. He'd been stripped of what made him a character people could get behind. The Jericho match was a fine match in itself, but it wasn't the kind of match people wanted from Goldberg. They wanted Goldberg to go out there and be a killer. When he was, the cheered him, and that cannot be denied. When he wasn't being what they wanted, of course the fans are going to boo. I find it funny that you're bringing up Goldberg's 'lack of respect' for WWE when they showed him almost none when it came to booking his character in an effective manner, and one which WWE's own fans showed they wanted. As for why you'd go out of your way to push Goldberg, I don't know. Maybe something crazy like getting him over big so that when he puts someone over clean it means something. But that might be just crazy talk.

 

When Nash and Steiner did show up, they were mostly horrid in WWE. Nash tore his quad literally walking across the ring. Steiner was a fiasco when they put him against HHH (too soon admittedly). Honestly, what money were guys like Nash and Steiner drawing in WCW? .10 buyrates baby!

 

I won't deny Nash and Steiner were generally horrid in WWE. But this is where smart booking comes in. Nash had a pretty decent match with Hunter in the HIAC. Why? Because they booked around Nash's weaknesses instead of exposing them. That's what you do with limited workers; you book around their weakness and accentuate their strengths. What Nash and company drew in WCW means nothing when it comes to what they could have done in WWE. Chris Jericho was a going nowhere midcarder in WCW, who wasn't even on TV for the last few months of his time there, but the second he showed up on Raw, the fans treated him like a god. He could have been something special in WWE, and the fans wanted him to be so it could have happened had politics not got in the way. I don't recall Rob Van Dam drawing much prior to coming to WWE, but the fans still treated him like a god and badly wanted to get behind him. While Nash, Steiner and company were all played out in WCW, coming to the WWF meant a fresh start and an all new playing field. You had a ton of potential money in Steiner matches against Hunter, Angle, Lesnar, Rock, etc. Granted, they would have to have been booked meticulously to hide Steiner's weaknesses, but the matches would have drawn, not only because it was Steiner, but because it was something fresh in the main event.

 

Given that these guys all showed up in WWE eventually and none lasted especially long or got over consistently, why would an Invasion with them have been so different? It likely would have been the same crappy matches to go with the "Why are these hasbeens getting pushed?" questions.

 

That much I won't deny, but it boils down to the same old problem of ego getting in the way of business.

[Sass 0]

Loss4Words once brought up a good point IMO about Goldberg's WWE run:

 

The moment he was in a comedy sketch with Goldust, he lost his "killer" aura.

 

I agree with this sentiment as well. Goldberg should have been squashing everyone in less than 10 minutes. The only matches he should have struggled in were ones against guys like the Undertaker, Kane or the Big Show. He should have been able to overpower everyone else and bull rush them into losing.

 

I also agree with how giving WCW/ECW a name like the Alliance made them too WWE-centric. It also didn't really help how the strongest guys in the group were WWF wrestlers like Austin and (later) Angle.

 

The whole Invasion was botched when Eric Bischoff didn't show up on RAW taunting Vince and instead Stephanie did (with her new hooters). This thing needed Sleazy E if it were to have any legs. Vince vs. Eric was *the* feud 1996 and seeing the McMahons vs. Bischoff/Heyman would have been surreal.

 

This angle was and should forever be remembered as the worst screw-up in wrestling history. This puts to shame the NWA buying (and jobbing) out the UWF or All Japan missing the boat with a UWFi feud too after things had wrapped up in New Japan. Perhaps a 1995 EMLL/AAA in-ring feud could also be argued. However, everything was in the works for this storyline to be successful and instead everything ended with a whimper.

[Sass 0]

The Rock vs. Goldberg feud never really looked clicked. The Rock seemed was too tepid about being a heel and at times he acted like a tweener (which is not good). Goldberg not squashing HHH at Summerslam was the final nail in what could have been a successful run as champ.

 

Scott Steiner was not booked well either. He should have never been put on RAW with HHH when SD! was in more need of a heel at the time as opposed to RAW needing another babyface.

 

Kevin Nash and HHH had a really unmotivated feud too and it looked as though neither guy could come up with a way to spark some energy into their encounters.

[cabbageboy 0]

The UWF buyout was foolish mainly because Crockett spent all that money acquiring the territory and didn't do much with it. Not sure he could have done a hell of a lot with it, considering the area where UWF was big hit an economic recession in the mid 80s. It was a silly buyout to begin with, but I don't think jobbing those guys was any sort of big deal. Let's face it, the UWF wasn't even hardly known outside of Louisiana, parts of Texas, Oklahoma, etc. I know where I live we didn't get any UWF programming. It wasn't a promotion anywhere near the level of the NWA. They did get some guys like Sting and Steve Williams though, so it wasn't a total wash.

 

Honestly, what could Crockett have done? The UWF had a limited area of appeal, and even that area was declining in business. So the idea of keeping the NWA and UWF separate wasn't all that feasible. Could he seriously do a unification match with Dr. Death vs. Flair? They did to Nikita Koloff vs. Terry Taylor to unify the TV titles, but Koloff going over there was the right move.

[Sass 0]

A well-promoted bout between NWA HW champ Lex Luger vs. UWF HW champ Dr. Death could have drawn well in 1988. Of course, Crockett should have cherry picked the company instead of buying the whole enchilada.

[KingPK 0]

I seem to also recall WWE fans crapping on Goldberg when he faced The Rock at Backlash. And also Jericho at Bad Blood 2003. Add to it that he only signed a 1 year deal and had seemingly no real respect for WWE. So why go out of your way to push Goldberg?

 

The build up to Goldberg vs. Rock was terrible. They did just about every single thing wrong you can do with a Goldberg-type character, from the comedy to having him get punked out twice in the same show and so on. Goldberg had gone from being Goldberg, someone special, to just another name. He'd been stripped of what made him a character people could get behind.

 

Hell, they screwed up right out of the gate with his introduction the night after XIX by making him talk before spearing Rock. All he had to do was march down to the ring, menacingly stare down Rock, spear, Jackhammer and walk to the back while JR screams "GOLDBERG!! BAH GAWD KING, GOLDBERG IS HERE!!!"

Edited April 12, 2007 by KingPK

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

The whole Invasion was botched when Eric Bischoff didn't show up on RAW taunting Vince and instead Stephanie did (with her new hooters). This thing needed Sleazy E if it were to have any legs. Vince vs. Eric was *the* feud 1996 and seeing the McMahons vs. Bischoff/Heyman would have been surreal.

 

Because I'm a nerd and think of such things, I've long thought the Invasion would have been cool had it gone down as such:

 

- The kickoff with the simulcast was perfectly fine, and I'd keep Shane "buying" WCW from under Vince's nose. But to add to the intrigue, I'd have Shane talk crypticly about his "investor."

 

- At WM, WCW immediately has an impact when Champion Booker T slams Vince to help Shane win their street fight.

 

- Not long after, Shane (still making cryptic mentions of his "investor") leads a fullscale invasion during Raw.

 

- Shane's investor buys out disgruntled WWF workers to join WCW, like Big Show (not being shown his respect as the largest man in wrestling), Jericho (cheated out of the title by Austin), Justin Credible (overshadowed by his running mates), etc. and RVD is introduced as a major free agent acquistion.

 

- At the Invasion PPV, the bet is this: if WCW wins the most matches, it takes control of one of Vince's TV shows. If WWF wins, WCW goes away. Obviously WCW wins, and takes control of SmackDown, with a roster featuring: Booker, DDP, Kanyon, Mike Awesome, Lance Storm/Justin Credible (reforming the Impact Players), Palumbo/O'Haire, Jericho, Big Show, Hugh Morrus, Kidman, Mysterio, Chavo, Helms, Knoble, Kronik, Johnny the Bull, Steiner (who in 2001 was still worlds ahead of 2002 Steiner), and a few other WWF jumpers (maybe one of the Hardys, Billy Gunn, Tazz, Val Venis, etc.).

 

- On the first WCW SmackDown, the investor is introduced as Eric Bischoff.

 

- I'd keep Heyman with WWF until around Survivor Series, where he then introduces his ECW faction. Here he reinstates the belts, with Rhino as TV and World champion, the Dudleyz named tag champions, and there you have the extra intrigue of which former ECW wrestlers will join Heyman. That's a sub-storyline that you can get plenty of mileage out of alone.

 

- The Royal Rumble is a WWF-only match...and instead of No. 1 contendership, it's for the vacant WWF title. See, in my vision in these months leading up, Angle and Austin have been feuding over 1. the belt and 2. leadership of WWF. Because of the in-fighting, they can't focus on WCW. They cost each other matches, leading to Vince holding the title up. Rather than HHH winning the Rumble, I have The Rock win the vacant title.

 

- Wrestlemania is a three-way title match between champions, to crown the first Unified World Champion. Let's say Rhino's injury is inevitable...in that case I'd go with a main event of:

ECW Champ RVD vs. WWF Champ The Rock vs. WCW Champ Booker T

Then on the undercard you've got:

Ric Flair vs. HHH

Jericho vs. Undertaker

Kane vs. Big Show

A non-crossover match, instead a feud-ender in Angle vs. Austin

Wrestlemania is the first time in the feud WWF dominates at all. This plants the seeds for WWF eventually winning this, especially after The Rock unifies the titles.

 

In case you can't tell, I've thought about how the Invasion could have worked pretty much since it first began with such a thud.

[Sass 0]

I like everything except adding Hugh Morrus and not including Goldberg.

 

The 3-way at WM I don't like either (these matches normally blow).

[cabbageboy 0]

The main problem is that there is nobody on the face of this earth who could justify or even want to see WCW take over a major WWF show. I remember when that rumor first started and I was pissed beyond words that they would dare even think of giving WCW Raw. It doesn't matter how the angle was done, it's just not something people wanted to see. Again it goes back to this simple fact: No one wanted to see WCW anymore.

 

As far as the UWF goes, I agree that Crockett should have just let them tank and fold. Then he could come in and grab the top talent without spending a huge amount. One problem that the UWF/NWA JCP would have had is that there really wasn't any particular difference in the two promotions. One was a redneck league out of the Carolinas. One was a redneck league out of Louisiana, Texas, and Oklahoma. Hell, a couple years earlier the UWF was Mid South and actually IN the NWA. Steve Williams and Terry Taylor, Eddie Gilbert, Michael Hayes....those guys just seemed like they could be in the NWA anyway.

[JHawk 0]

As far as the UWF goes, I agree that Crockett should have just let them tank and fold. Then he could come in and grab the top talent without spending a huge amount. One problem that the UWF/NWA JCP would have had is that there really wasn't any particular difference in the two promotions. One was a redneck league out of the Carolinas. One was a redneck league out of Louisiana, Texas, and Oklahoma. Hell, a couple years earlier the UWF was Mid South and actually IN the NWA. Steve Williams and Terry Taylor, Eddie Gilbert, Michael Hayes....those guys just seemed like they could be in the NWA anyway.

Mid-South wasn't actually a member of the NWA, although Watts was ablw to get dates with the NWA World Champion on occasion.

 

Plus, Watts said in his shoot interview that he told Crockett Vince was looking into buying the company, so Crockett thought he was keeping Vince from getting the UWF. Problem is Vince never made on offer.

 

Bill Watts: Super Genius.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I would love to see that conversation between Vince and the heads of UPN when he informed them that he would like to rebrand their flagship show to that of another company that just went out of business with underperforming shows on basic cable. I'm sure that would have went over real well. I know it's fantasy booking and all, but you guys need to be realistic about their options.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Austin's character was good at the time, the only problem was that other than RVD and maybe Angle, the rest of the Alliance was made to look like a bunch of jobber lackeys. Remember that one show where Austin just bitched out the whole Alliance, and they all just stood there and took it?

 

"Your name is... Hugh Morrus? What? Is that supposed to be humourous? What?"

 

That was fantastic, but it provided one of the biggest missed opportunities of the whole Invasion angle, running Stone Cold vs. Tazz. I guess by then they'd already decided on the ending and turning Austin back to a face, but I believe they could have made Tazz into a star if they'd matched him up to Austin. The fans were begging for it.

 

They did match them up. Tazz jobbed in two minutes, IIRC.

 

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. If they matched him up to Austin in a legitimate program rather than what they did do, which I guess was pairing him up with Spike Dudley. Again, once they decided to turn Austin face then I guess that would have been impossible because they would have needed a PPV one on one match and Tazz only really turned face before Survivor Series IIRC.

[cabbageboy 0]

That's interesting that Mid South was never technically in the NWA, but that further illustrates the point. It was hard to really tell the difference when Flair was on the show from time to time and essentially they recognized the NWA champion as their world champ.

 

It's sorta like Memphis bringing in AWA guys. Maybe it was more of an informal agreement, but if you see Bockwinkel and the Road Warriors on the TV show, it's like the AWA.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It was a silly buyout to begin with, but I don't think jobbing those guys was any sort of big deal.

 

Squandering the marketability of a number of talents, Sting not included, that could have injected some freshness into the mid to top level scene in the NWA wasn't a big deal?

 

Let's face it, the UWF wasn't even hardly known outside of Louisiana, parts of Texas, Oklahoma, etc. I know where I live we didn't get any UWF programming. It wasn't a promotion anywhere near the level of the NWA.

 

They needn't have even used the UWF name. Just have the wrestlers come in as a group, give them a name, and have them booked strong from the get go so they get over. It's not rocket science.

 

Honestly, what could Crockett have done?

 

Make the UWF guys look strong from the beginning so that when they NWA guys finally beat them it meant something?

 

The UWF had a limited area of appeal, and even that area was declining in business. So the idea of keeping the NWA and UWF separate wasn't all that feasible. Could he seriously do a unification match with Dr. Death vs. Flair? They did to Nikita Koloff vs. Terry Taylor to unify the TV titles, but Koloff going over there was the right move.

 

Again, the UWF name needn't have even been used. If you bring in new guys, having your guys go over them strong and clean from the beginning in the major matches is not even close to the right move. The best thing for business would have been to make them mean something before beating them, otherwise all you're beating are wrestlers your fans take seriously, and what's the point in that? That doesn't do business.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I think it was kind of weird who they chose to push and not push. Steve Williams was practically a jobber in the NWA for a while, while Michael Hayes actually got a singles push and had a mini-feud with Ric Flair, before re-forming the Freebirds.

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't really remember Steve Williams being a jobber in the NWA. He seemed like a solid midcard to upper midcard guy. He was in that Wargames on the new Horsemen DVD, so he couldn't have been that much of a jobber.

 

Truth be told, the UWF guys weren't used that bad. Hayes as noted had a decent singles run and won the US title at one point, then reformed the Freebirds and won the tag belts. Sting ended up being the biggest star they got from the UWF, no need to mention his success. Hell, they got Jim Ross from the UWF and in a year or so he was the main announcer for the NWA/WCW. While Crockett might have buried the UWF's titles and all that, I don't really think he buried the talent. They were really just meshed in with the rest of the NWA roster.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

There was definitely a period of about six months or so, where Steve Williams was used to put over a lot of people. I think it was between the period where the Varsity Club broke up, and when he started getting pushed again as a face allied with the Road Warriors. My memory is pretty hazy on that time period, though.

[cbacon 0]

What was the kayfabe reason for Austin joining the Alliance anyway?

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Vince didn't care about him anymore, and he was grooming Kurt Angle to be the next champion.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

What made the whole Invasion thing stupid is the simple fact that they ended up hiring the wrestlers later on that would've made the Invasion much more interesting. They also tried to bury main eventersfrom WCW like DDP and Booker T. Good thing for Booker T he will always be over, and the WWE realized that.

 

But seriously after the Invasion, they ended up hiring Ric Flair, nWo, Scott Steiner, Rey Mysterio Jr, Goldberg, etc. The Invasion would've been much better with them.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

What made the whole Invasion thing stupid is the simple fact that they ended up hiring the wrestlers later on that would've made the Invasion much more interesting. They also tried to bury main eventersfrom WCW like DDP and Booker T. Good thing for Booker T he will always be over, and the WWE realized that.

 

But seriously after the Invasion, they ended up hiring Ric Flair, nWo, Scott Steiner, Rey Mysterio Jr, Goldberg, etc. The Invasion would've been much better with them.

One could argue though that their post-Invasion years ended up better. If they brought them in at once, they might have blown their wad early.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

What made the whole Invasion thing stupid is the simple fact that they ended up hiring the wrestlers later on that would've made the Invasion much more interesting. They also tried to bury main eventersfrom WCW like DDP and Booker T. Good thing for Booker T he will always be over, and the WWE realized that.

 

But seriously after the Invasion, they ended up hiring Ric Flair, nWo, Scott Steiner, Rey Mysterio Jr, Goldberg, etc. The Invasion would've been much better with them.

 

The reason they hired those guys later on was that their WCW contracts either expired or they accepted buyouts from Time Warner. Those guys were all ridiculously overpaid and if the WWF wanted them during the invasion, they would have had to take on their multi-million dollar deals. There was a reason that WCW was losing $80 million a year at the end and most of it had to do with the payroll. I don't think the WWF wanted to put themselves in that sort of financial burden just the enhance the appeal of one angle.

 

Not that I necessarily think that the WWF took the best course of action with the invasion, but you have to remember where they were at that point in time. They were a meticulously run, highly successful organization. They had just come off their most profitable year ever, where they obtained their highest ratings and buried their competition to the point that two rival organizations went under. It would have been a hard sell to their employees and shareholders that they were planning on cutting profit margins and expanding their roster to include a bunch of guys from a failed organization. Sometimes there is more to the story than it appears on the surface, and this one of those situations.

[BruiserKC 0]

I have a different theory on the Invasion angle. I have come to believe that the Invasion wasn't a botched angle. It was deliberately booked the way it was to make WCW look second-rate. Vince had no intention of making the WCW wrestlers look good, nor the ECW for that matter.

 

Vince had a grueling battle with Ted Turner and very nearly saw the WWF/E go belly-up. This wasn't business...this was personal. I remember the promo Vince cut on the night RAW and Nitro simulcast him. To me it spoke true that he was going to put WCW on the shelf and let it sit. The way the whole thing was set up made WCW look second-rate from the start. When he put the ECW wrestlers in with them, it was something of a back-handed slap to WCW in saying that even EC Dub was superior to them as far as they were what kept the Invasion afloat.

 

If Vince had truly wanted to make the Invasion work...he would have signed the NWO, Goldberg, Steiner, etc. But he had no intention of doing so as far as I can see...and it also showed that when he did bring them in he just clobbered them. The NWO raised hell and very nearly took over WCW...it was pretty much single-handedly defeated in the WWF by Rock and Austin. Goldberg was booked by WCW as an unstoppable monster...Linda McMahon referred to him as a disappointment at a board of directors meeting and that was before Goldberg won the RAW World title.

 

Vince did a slash and burn for almost 20 years to pretty much be the only game in town...if anyone thought he was going to give any props to anyone else along the way for giving him a run for their money they were out of their mind.