SAW IV

[RedJed 0]

I actually thought that the third was the best one. I saw it last Wednesday, and I'd say it's easily better than the second one (which was, IMO, better than the first). The one thing I wish was different about it was that there was 10 more minutes, so the "revelations" weren't so rushed. But that's something that happens in any movie where there's some huge revelation that needs some thought put into it at the end.

 

Also, a little more time for backstory on Jeff would've been preferable, but not necessary, because the story of

a father using this time to get revenge for his dead son

is pretty self-explanatory. It'll be interesting to see how Jigsaw's past plays into the next few sequels, much more interesting than the endless add-on's to the mythologies of Jason Voorhees, Michael Meyers, Chucky (and subsequently Tiffany), and even Freddy Krueger.

 

I agree about the third one completely. A director's cut comes out on DVD tomorrow, which apparently has a bit more footage and I heard a different (or extended) ending.

[RedJed 0]

I just got out of a midnight showing of this and I was pretty impressed. And it's quite the ending, I will say that much. I really didn't see the ending coming (especially as specific as they got it) until it happened so kudos to the writers on that. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how the ending really went (that statement will make sense to those who see it) in terms of where does it go from here. LOTS of backstory in more ways than one, relating to how Jigsaw became what he turned into, and how everything just connects with this person and that. Ties in, once again, very well to the previous films. Quite the swerves abound here a bit regarding timeline structure regarding its' relevance to the other films and who you think is pulling who's strings by the end of it.

 

I won't mention yet who ends up being Jigsaw's accomplice, but I will say whoever listed the "suspects", they were right on with it with one of them. Plenty more backstory to go around for part five from this, though (for example, you know WHO wrote the letter to Amanda from end of part three, but you still don't know what it said exactly. Amazed a fourth sequel held up this well....as expected, the gore continued to get more over the top than before, surprise surprise. The first 15 or so minutes was a little rough to sit through as it pertained to the gore factor, especially the autopsy scene of Jigsaw. The thing that got me a little confused was that it never explained why the new killer/accomplice was a part of the whole thing though. He just was. It did show flashbacks that he was working with Jigsaw and Amanda somehow but it still doesn't explain that connection completely. But the beginning playing unto the ending of this film was pretty fucking cool, relating to the whole scheme of things in terms of a timeline standpoint of sorts and how Jigsaw still kind of controls everything, even after his death from Saw III.

 

I'm planning on going to this again as there are parts I think I let slip in terms of how they were tied in even more than I thought, and there are still lots of loose ends and unanswered questions that I would imagine get addressed in the next two films.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Gah, I wanna read the spoilers so bad, but I want to see it and be suprised

[Mik 0]

There are no actual spoilers in that spoiler text, so feel free to read away.

[RedJed 0]

Yeah, I didnt want to give away too much, but felt if I opened that text up, there might be some stuff that could be read a certain way that might spoil the film a tad bit. I was very vague though. While I am at it though, this IS a major spoiler...

 

One thing that didn't get addressed whatsoever is what happens to Jeff's daughter. Jeff ends up getting killed near the end of the film by a new character in the film (one that is kept alive in similar fashion to the ending of part one and two in a way) so it's really hard to say if they will even follow up with that story in part 5 or just blow it off since Jeff is now dead. But there is info on the tape that Jeff heard from part 3, and it is clear by the end of this film THAT tape was found by police and detectives. So we'll likely see the search for Jeff's daughter as part of a story for part 5, beyond what is all up with Detective Hoffman (the new accomplice).

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Great movie, worthy sequel for the most part, and everything clicked from the new writers, who had the sequence of events set-up in an unexpected order. Aside from the opening scene, SAW IV wasn't as gory IMO as the previous film. The only thing I was PISSED about was

Eric and Jeff (total copout with his random death) being killed off like nobodies. I had to call BULLSHIT especially with Eric. I'll just pretend Amanda killed him in the hallway as it was originally written, filmed, and intended and the guy on the noose was some other cop buddy of Rigg's. Matthews was my favorite SAW character so I was sad to see him go in brutal fashion. (HORRIBLE editing of the SAW III footage by the way to make it look like Amanda didn't come back to Eric even though in all versions of SAW III that's what happened since Amanda would NOT let any of her victims live so for her to spare Eric's life is totally against her character.)

That makes SAW IV more enjoyable for me by having selective memory.

 

It was cool to see more backstory on Jigsaw of how he came to be. The traps were neat as well. Rigg had a cool game that was new and original in itself. The editing team did a great job (aside from my complaint above) with the transistion shots from present time to flashbacks and vice versa.

 

Just so everybody knows in order to get the questions out of the way:

the fate of Dr. Gordon, how Jigsaw got Obi to work for him, what was said in Amanda's letter were all ignored.

 

I just got out of a midnight showing of this and I was pretty impressed. And it's quite the ending, I will say that much. I really didn't see the ending coming (especially as specific as they got it) until it happened so kudos to the writers on that. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how the ending really went (that statement will make sense to those who see it) in terms of where does it go from here. LOTS of backstory in more ways than one, relating to how Jigsaw became what he turned into, and how everything just connects with this person and that. Ties in, once again, very well to the previous films. Quite the swerves abound here a bit regarding timeline structure regarding its' relevance to the other films and who you think is pulling who's strings by the end of it.

 

The beginning of the film is actually the ending. The first trap is the real start of the film. We assume Hoffman is the new Jigsaw, but the final twist is he too is merely a pawn and it looks like SAW V will be his game.

 

One thing that didn't get addressed whatsoever is what happens to Jeff's daughter. Jeff ends up getting killed near the end of the film by a new character in the film (one that is kept alive in similar fashion to the ending of part one and two in a way) so it's really hard to say if they will even follow up with that story in part 5 or just blow it off since Jeff is now dead. But there is info on the tape that Jeff heard from part 3, and it is clear by the end of this film THAT tape was found by police and detectives. So we'll likely see the search for Jeff's daughter as part of a story for part 5, beyond what is all up with Detective Hoffman (the new accomplice).

 

Hoffman is taking care of Jeff's daughter, Corbett. Agent Perez asked him who the teddy bear was for. He said it was for a girl and he wasn't married. Its the same bear Corbett is clutching in the room she's in so I'm glad she wasn't completely ignored.

[Just John 0]

This movie seemed like a total rehash of the first three. The main plot with the extended game involving random brutality was pretty much the third movie all over again. The big twist at the end was a carbon copy of the first movie (guy who looks like the bad guy is a victim, and vice versa). The time sequence confusion and dual-purpose building were used in the second movie. There were also a lot more questions raised than answered, and it seems obvious that the writers are looking to open more possibilities for sequels than tie up loose ends from the past. The loose ends they do care to tie up are done in disappointing fashion (oh yeah, what we do with this guy... Eh, kill him).

 

The ending is still fairly surprising and made me feel like I hadn't totally wasted my time watching the movie. However, if this is any indication of what's to come for the Saw franchise, the next few movies could get pretty ugly.

[Guest NYankees]

How does Betsey Russell from Private School look in this film? She used to be quite the woman back in the day. If anybody doesnt know who she is, she plays Jigsaw's wife in the movie.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

This was not as fun as previous Saws, because the creators actually (foolishly) applied some modicum of restraint, and because they made a poorly executed attempt at craft with the whole "ohhhhh tricky chronology" business. I did like all the shots of Jigsaw's floppy dead penis, though.

[haws bah gawd 0]

This was not as fun as previous Saws, because the creators actually (foolishly) applied some modicum of restraint, and because they made a poorly executed attempt at craft with the whole "ohhhhh tricky chronology" business. I did like all the shots of Jigsaw's floppy dead penis, though.

 

Yea, I could've went all day without that.

[NoCalMike 0]

Just saw it. Was pretty good, but damn if it didn't open more questions than it answered.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

Saw it a few days ago. Almost felt like a transition movie from part 3 to 5. Wasn't overly gory, but it was still a good flick to get some background on everyone.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

There are several changes in the Unrated DVD:

 

In the Mausoleum trap, Trevor is hit with a hammer four times instead of two.

 

In his apartment, Rigg is shown waking up in bed after hearing a noise outside his room.

 

There is some extra dialogue exchanged between Rigg and Brenda.

 

Rigg uses Ivan's dog to lure Ivan to the Feel What I Feel room.

 

Ivan's death is slightly extended.

 

Officer Rigg pulls the final rod out of Morgan at the Save As I Save test.

 

The clip of Hoffman unstrapping himself from the chair is removed.

[cabbageboy 0]

I finally got around to seeing this one, since I wasn't exactly thrilled with the notion of a Saw IV after the 3rd one seemingly left no room for another. The aspect of this series that truly impresses me is the insane level of detail and continuity in them. These sequels aren't just the typical horror sequel fare with victims getting killed. There's some actual thought and screenwriting in them, and all of the films flow as a narrative. It's fun to go back now and rewatch previous films and note characters that become more relevant later (such as Rigg, Hoffman, etc.).

 

At any rate I surprisingly enjoyed the 4th installment and am now interested in seeing Saw V. If I had to rank them it would be Saw I, II, IV, and III. The third one went overboard with the sick shit and had by far the least interesting protagonist.

 

What was that part mentioned above about Hoffman not really being the new Jigsaw? The movie seemed to say that he was. And did Rigg end up living or dying? It was sorta unanswered.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Rigg got shot in the chest, he's a goner.

 

Jigsaw said in his final message that its not over just because he is dead and Hoffman wouldn't walk away untested. So apparantly the cliffhanger is there is a THIRD apprentice / somebody else involved that will test Hoffman in SAW V. I'm hoping its Jill because she is the most logical choice.

 

When I first went to see SAW IV, I liked it, but when I watched it again when it came out on DVD, I found that this movie had too many inconsistencies, plot holes, and essentially went against the grain that the previous movies had set-up therefore it is the weakest film in the franchise.

 

My main complaint (aside from the crap they decided to do with the past main characters) is that the big twist complicated SAW III's plot, created more loopholes, and essentially doesn't work (Jigsaw is soooo smart that he could time exactly WHEN people like Strahm would act? Bullshit.) It would've been better had the movie been a direct sequel instead.

 

I do love the other SAW movies so I hope SAW 5 will be an improvement, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah for whatever reason I'm not buying something.

Hoffman doesn't make a huge amount of sense as the apprentice and come Saw V they better fully explain why he did what he did. But Jill as the new Jigsaw? I'd like to see them explain that as well, especially given the flashbacks showing her frustrations with John losing his mind.

 

This might sound goofy but I think the Saw series needs another notable star in one of the movies. Maybe if the box office goes down for the next movie, bring in someone for Saw VI to be a cop that finally stops the madness and ends it. I'd crack up if Samuel Jackson was in one, he can go off on his usual rants like "I'm sick of these motherfucking games!" Or maybe Jason Statham since he works a lot for Lionsgate, but he seems like the typical moron Saw cop character that gets played.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

From what I understand, Hoffman admires Jigsaw and studies to be just like him. He became fascinated with Jigsaw's philosophy during the Jigsaw Killer investigation. Remember when he was interrogating Jill on the tape? I believe that's where it started with him and I believe Jill introduced Hoffman to Jigsaw following that meeting.

 

We already had a failure in Amanda so I'm hoping Hoffman will be a successful apprentice, but knowing the SAW formula, I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of the next film, it's revealed that Hoffman was *GASP* just a pawn and was never intended to be the one to carry Jigsaw's legacy.

 

Other theories:

 

- Rigg's game was entirely masterminded solely by Hoffman. He did it behind Jigsaw's back. Jigsaw found out about this and punishes Hoffman by testing him to prove he can carry on Jigsaw's legacy.

 

- Strahm was actually meant to kill Rigg while Jeff was to start playing his second game. Strahm killed Jeff instead and screwed everything up that Jigsaw and / or Hoffman had planned out.

 

- Jill was in on it all along. Her divorce from John was a work to throw everybody off. She helped her husband to find / recruit pawns for his games (Obi from the park, everybody else from Jill's clinic or the Angel of Mercy hospital)

 

Amanda's letter

 

Another thing I want to mention is that I was watching SAW IV with the commentary and the director, Darren Lynn Bousman, said that Jigsaw did not write Amanda's letter, Hoffman wrote the letter, and Jigsaw KNEW Hoffman wrote the letter.

 

So basically, since the letter is what caused everybody to get killed at the end of SAW III, I think its safe to say that the letter basically informed Amanda that Jigsaw was replacing her with Hoffman OR informed Amanda that when John dies, she would resume apprenticeship under Jill, and maybe that's what made her so upset.

"You're giving her control over me? Fuck you!"

I think she could've been referring to Jill, not Lynn.

 

Also, after Hoffman is done writing the letter, it appears that he inserts a chain ring from Troy's trap (the one he pocketed) along with it into the envelope. This could mean that Hoffman reported to Jigsaw (after listening to what Kerry had to say at the crime scene) that Amanda was breaking the rules by giving the victims no chance of survival, which led to Amanda being retested.

[cabbageboy 0]

Damn, all of this seems to refer back to Saw III and I don't remember a huge amount about it since I found it the weakest of the series. Maybe it's because the movie was entirely too long? A 2 hour long horror movie with a bunch of torture scenes is tough to get through.

[NoCalMike 0]

Maybe the new apprentice is the detective's son that was "kidnapped" in Saw III.....<crickets>....anyone?

[Youth N Asia 0]

Do we still need non stop spoiler tags? Anyone in this thread I imagine has seen the movie by now

[In Credible 0]

something is spoiler tags is more interesting to read.

[In Credible 0]

I just watched it and it was really predictable. The only thing that I was wondering about, is what if Rigg hadn't gotten shot by Det. Mathews? What if he sprung the trap but wasn't shot?

 

It seems like these movies just try to be as gross as possible, the nice the about the first one is that it was clever. You had to be smart to get out of the first big plan. The sequel traps are mostly just about people fucking themselves up (yes a couple of the SAW traps were dealing with pain, but not as grotesque).

[In Credible 0]

I just watched it and it was really predictable. The only thing that I was wondering about, is what if Rigg hadn't gotten shot by Det. Mathews? What if he sprung the trap but wasn't shot?

 

It seems like these movies just try to be as gross as possible, the nice the about the first one is that it was clever. You had to be smart to get out of the first big plan. The sequel traps are mostly just about people fucking themselves up (yes a couple of the SAW traps were dealing with pain, but not as grotesque. It was all implied gore in those.).

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I agree. The first Saw was much more of a mystery: Who is Jigsaw? How did we get here? How do we escape? It also works on different levels: On the first viewing I left the theater almost in shock over the wildly insane last 20 mins. On subsequent viewings, I crack up laughing at how over the top it all is (especially Elwes) but it's still highly entertaining. And really, the relative lack of sick moments makes the main twisted moment (Elwes sawing his leg off) all the more potent.

 

Saw II still had some mystery to it, but upped the ante with more sick traps and stuff. Thing is, the traps there were terrifying and nightmarish (the pit of hypo needles, the burning oven, the antidote in the glass cage). And there at least were some compelling characters in Saw II, such as Glenn Plummer's more reasonable ex con and Xavier the nutjob. By Saw III we had a bunch of traps that descend almost into parody, like the pig meat trap or the rack. Saw III also has easily the least compelling main guy, who isn't really in serious danger while saving these people from the traps.

[Yuna_Firerose 0]

Saw II was absolutely the best of the series, in my opinion. I didn't really care for the traps; the game was more about Jigsaw toying with the Detective to the point of violence. Saw III is only interesting for the scenes involving Amanda and John; the traps therein were absolutely disgusting, and more than that, went completely against what John blatantly stated in Saw II about hating murderers. Saw IV parodies itself, really. Another one that is pointless and nonsensical like III.

 

The commentary with James Wan and Leigh Whannell on Saw II is surprisingly amusing (particuraly Leigh's impersonation of Cary), and whats more, very informative.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I mean Saw II has a lot to recommend it for horror fans, I just prefer the original. It's just more wildly entertaining with everyone acting like they are on crack.

 

Besides, the major plot twist in Saw II is something I picked up on fairly early in the film the first time I saw it (namely Amanda being the accomplice). Though I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

[In Credible 0]

I actually did like #2 better now that I look at both of them, I really like how the entire movie was basically a setup to get Det. Mathews. They still followed their rules and though the traps were brutal, there was still that empathy of that would suck I wonder if I could do it, but without going too over the top.

 

The later ones they had less on the clever side, you didn't care about the characters, they broke their own rules, and they just upped the gore (which makes you stop thinking if you could deal with that yourself, and just think "wow that's gross".)

 

The SAW movies are basically a joke after II. I think III really killed the momentum the series had going for itself. Saw 3 should have been Det. Mathews game (though in #2 it was technically his game) I think that would have been more interesting than some random guy that we don't really give two shits about. No reason to have the giant build to get Mathews and then not follow up with something big dealing with him.

 

At this point I don't really care about Jigsaw's past or his apprentices etc. They made a big mistake killing him off and now they have to play the time jumping game just to squeeze out some more sequels.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I had no idea how they could even do a Saw IV after the ending of III. The fact that they got something semi coherent out of what was left made IV a pleasant surprise.

 

Saw I left them in a bind long term as sequels go. Jigsaw was already a dying man in the first film, so you really can't keep him alive too much longer. I think they did make a mistake of killing him off in III at the end of the film, especially a guy killing him that I really didn't care about. That's what I meant earlier by the series needing a guest star for the finale, someone like Morgan Freeman who could match wits with Jigsaw and finally catch him.

[In Credible 0]

Or instead of having that pile of crap III, they could have had #4 be the third movie and move on from there (obviously having to explain some backstory), but I think it would have been a lot more interesting.

[Lil' Bitch 0]