Tomko - TNA's Batista?

[Toxxic 0]

Now, it's obvious that Tomko is fairly limited in the ring. I won't argue with that. However, I'd venture that he's still an interesting character. I think he's got a certain vibe to indicate that he's more than just the thug he was brought in as. For example, his lack of trust and respect for Scott Steiner because Steiner's put over as not very intelligent - in fact, the musclebound thug that Tomko is thought to be. For me, they've managed to indicate that Tomko might be just as intelligent as Christian, but isn't quite ready yet to make his play in the same way as Christian has. I do get a Batista-like vibe from him though, back in the Evolution days - "I'm big and strong, but I'm not as dumb as you think and although I'm on your side at the moment, it won't always be this way".

 

Anyone else see where I'm coming from here?

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Now, it's obvious that Tomko is fairly limited in the ring. I won't argue with that. However, I'd venture that he's still an interesting character. I think he's got a certain vibe to indicate that he's more than just the thug he was brought in as. For example, his lack of trust and respect for Scott Steiner because Steiner's put over as not very intelligent - in fact, the musclebound thug that Tomko is thought to be. For me, they've managed to indicate that Tomko might be just as intelligent as Christian, but isn't quite ready yet to make his play in the same way as Christian has. I do get a Batista-like vibe from him though, back in the Evolution days - "I'm big and strong, but I'm not as dumb as you think and although I'm on your side at the moment, it won't always be this way".

 

Anyone else see where I'm coming from here?

 

Honestly, I can see it. I have a lot of respect for Tomko and unlike a lot of people, I'm glad TNA brought him in. He's got a great attitude from all accounts, such as working in Japan to try to learn to be a monster big man. He needs some sort of character defining moment to get him past the "WWE castoff" stigma, though.

[luke-o 0]

Although he shares a lot of same traits as Batista has, on which i agree with you, he doesn't have that "world heavyweight champion" feel to him. I dont know what it is, but he doesnt have it.

 

As corkscrew said, maybe its because he has that "wwe cast off" vibe too him.

[cd213 0]

Tomko is one of the reasons that TNA needs a secondary title once they get the two-hour deal done.

[Jacques 0]

Tomko wasn't fired. He asked for his release.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

But he still comes across as a WWE castoff. Damn near all ex WWE wrestlers other than Kurt Angle have the WWE reject stamped on them . . . Christian included.

[Toxxic 0]

Well, what he really comes across as to me is a giant version of the guitarist from System Of A Down, but that's besides the point.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Tomko is strictly midcard for life at this point. He lacks the ability, the charisma and the fire to overcome that fact, and trying to push him in anything other than a bodyguard role won't work because people can see through it. It's not that he was a virtual jobber in WWE, although that didn't help. It's that the people can tell he lacks the kind of talent in any area to warrant a real push. Even if they had followed up on his beating Joe, it wouldn't have mattered because his deficiencies in just about every area meant the people didn't buy his beating Joe. That did more to harm Joe than it did to help Tomko, even if the booking afterwards had been in any way competent. Tomko can play a decent straight man to the comic heel, but that's about all he can do well.

[cabbageboy 0]

Millenium, hell Angle is the epitome of the washed up WWE guys that TNA hires. Unlike Christian he was just flat out released by WWE for not only his own good but because they felt he was also a shot wrestler.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Angle might have been washed up in WWE, but he came into TNA with the proverbial fresh coat of paint and was new again. What ruined Angle wasn't being washed up in WWE. It was the booking.

[migoli 0]

But he still comes across as a WWE castoff. Damn near all ex WWE wrestlers other than Kurt Angle have the WWE reject stamped on them . . . Christian included.

 

Well i dont know about that......

[MillenniumMan831 0]

The casual rasslin fan doesn't know the facts of every WWE release/contact expiration. Angle was made to look like a BIG deal at the time of his TNA debut and didn't appear washed up at all.

 

Christian's debut was ok but a similiar debut was already done by Chris Jericho in the WWF. Christian, while talented and not washed up per se, came across as expendable by WWE at the time since he wasn't doing much of anything in his last 4-6 months after the 'Cena feud' ended.

[Toxxic 0]

Oh, come on. Anyone saying that Angle was 'new again' in TNA needs their head examined. Granted the booking hasn't helped him, but the man's a visible wreck. His arms look like pipe cleaners compared to his body mass, he sounds like someone on 60 cigarettes a day and his matches are the same old tired routine that he was churning out in the WWE, with even less invention despite the fact that he's got a new roster of opponents. Let's take a look at an average Kurt Angle singles PPV-length match, shall we?

 

-If you're lucky, we might get some pseudo-mat wrestling. And not the great catch-as-catch-can stuff that you got out of him against Benoit in the Gold Medals match, but some slow, half-assed shit. And given Regal managed to lead Goldberg through a mat wrestling sequence without Goldberg knowing what was going on, you can't blame the opposition.

-He'll probably bleed early, to give him an excuse for blowing up ten minutes in.

-A few suplexes, including ripping off Benoit's rolling Germans AGAIN.

-The first three attempts at the anklelock are ALWAYS countered.

-"I'm going to put the anklelock on you! I'm going to put the anklelock on you! I'm going to put th-shit, you've reversed it into your own submission finisher. How did I not see that coming, despite the fact that every opponent of mine for the last five years has done the same thing?"

-Spins around with his arms out, shouts "Wooo!" and takes his straps up/down at intervals, without much reaction from the crowd (so the booking hasn't been good. Alex Shelley has been made to look an absolute bitch, until his recent wins with Sabin I don't think he'd won a match in 9 months, and he's still about as over as Angle is, who beat Samoa Fucking Joe).

-The Olympic Slam never gets the three count the first time.

 

Now, nearfalls and so on are a way of life these days, but I can't name another wrestler right now who is THAT predictable in the ring. I could watch a Kurt Angle match and know that it's not in danger of ending until we've had at least two or three anklelock attempts countered, at least once with it on and the opponent reaches the ropes or reverses it into their own submission move, and the Olympic Slam either being countered or just not getting the pin. After all those things have happened, we might have a winner.

 

 

I'd disagree that Tomko lacks charisma. In recent weeks I think we've seen that he does have charisma. He's about the only wrestler on the roster (or anywhere, really) who doesn't seem to shout all the time, and that makes him stand out.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Oh, come on. Anyone saying that Angle was 'new again' in TNA needs their head examined. Granted the booking hasn't helped him, but the man's a visible wreck. His arms look like pipe cleaners compared to his body mass, he sounds like someone on 60 cigarettes a day and his matches are the same old tired routine that he was churning out in the WWE, with even less invention despite the fact that he's got a new roster of opponents. Let's take a look at an average Kurt Angle singles PPV-length match, shall we?

I don't think you understood what I meant. Angle was new again in TNA. Sure, he's doing the usual Angle stuff, with the constant reversals and all that, but what's new was Angle in TNA. He was in a new environment with new wrestlers, and while his share of things was what it usually is, the people he was facing were doing their own thing and it made for something different and new. Angle vs. Joe? New. Angle vs. Styles? New. Yes, what Angle himself was doing was the usual Angle of old, but the match itself was new because it wasn't something we'd seen before. That is what is meant when I said Angle was new again. Not that he was doing something different, but that was 'new' in the sense of being fresh to the company and was doing fresh, new matches that we hadn't seen before.

[Toxxic 0]

Right, but by that logic Tomko in TNA was new, as was Christian, as are the Bashams, as were the Dudleys (mainly), etc etc. Although of course as the trend continues they get less and less new because more and more of their opponents are people they faced before in the 'other place'. If you're saying (and I'm not sure if you are, or intend to) that other people's 'newness' isn't as important due to the fact that they don't have the same name value then we come back to Angle's name value, name value that can only have been accrued by his previous place of employment, the WWE... at which he was washed up.

 

You also said that what ruined Angle wasn't being washed up in the WWE... which I suppose is technically true, because what has REALLY ruined Angle is that HE is washed up, himself, physically and, given the complete lack of anything new in his repertoire since being released from 'WWE style', in his wrestling mentality. I see your point about him being given new opponents, but when you're booked as strong as Angle is (match-wise, at least - he's booked badly, but strong in the actual matches) and when you call your own matches as he does, everyone else's contribution is secondary. He was given or assumed a new character, depending on how much creative control you think he has, a character that he has apparently wanted to play before but that he had no experience at playing. And he did nothing to signify the change of the character except shout a lot, hoarsely. Towards the end of his WWE run he'd fallen back onto relying on a few repetitive spots to carry himself through a match, and nothing has changed. If he was playing a 'real wrestler' character I'd venture he should just largely ignore the 'sportz entertainment' moves and take them down with real wrestling, at least if he's facing jobberish opponents. Completely own them on the mat or something, and save the Germans etc for the big name opponents. But from what I've seen he hasn't got the ability to do that anymore - ergo, he's washed up.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the crowd was familiar with Angle, and new opponents weren't going to change that when he wasn't changing anything about himself. What he brought to TNA was nothing more than a little more WWE, and it was a side of the WWE that the WWE themselves had serious doubts about.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Right, but by that logic Tomko in TNA was new, as was Christian, as are the Bashams, as were the Dudleys (mainly), etc etc. Although of course as the trend continues they get less and less new because more and more of their opponents are people they faced before in the 'other place'. If you're saying (and I'm not sure if you are, or intend to) that other people's 'newness' isn't as important due to the fact that they don't have the same name value then we come back to Angle's name value, name value that can only have been accrued by his previous place of employment, the WWE... at which he was washed up.

 

It's not just being new to TNA that makes an ex-WWE guy mean something, it's what they bring with them in terms of ability or charisma or something else. Bringing in more ex-WWE guys does reduce the 'newness' of them because, as you said, there is less new for them to do by virtue of more of the ex-WWE crew being around, which is one reason why you don't bring in every wrestler the WWE lets go. Angle being washed up in WWE didn't affect his name value in TNA, because he wasn't seen by the majority of people as a WWE reject but as a star. It's the same sort of thing that happens when a medium or top level name in WCW or the WWF would jump to the other side. No matter how he was seen or booked in his old promotion, he was fresh again in his new promotion because it was new and he meant something. Look at Chris Jericho. Perennial midcarder in WCW who was in the midcard forever, but as soon as he stepped foot in the WWF he was a superstar. Granted, he got booked into the ground in short order and meant nowhere near as much by the end of the year, but in those first weeks, he was treated as a star by the WWF fans, even though he's been a midcarder for virtually all of his tenure in WCW.

 

You also said that what ruined Angle wasn't being washed up in the WWE... which I suppose is technically true, because what has REALLY ruined Angle is that HE is washed up, himself, physically and, given the complete lack of anything new in his repertoire since being released from 'WWE style', in his wrestling mentality. I see your point about him being given new opponents, but when you're booked as strong as Angle is (match-wise, at least - he's booked badly, but strong in the actual matches) and when you call your own matches as he does, everyone else's contribution is secondary. He was given or assumed a new character, depending on how much creative control you think he has, a character that he has apparently wanted to play before but that he had no experience at playing. And he did nothing to signify the change of the character except shout a lot, hoarsely. Towards the end of his WWE run he'd fallen back onto relying on a few repetitive spots to carry himself through a match, and nothing has changed. If he was playing a 'real wrestler' character I'd venture he should just largely ignore the 'sportz entertainment' moves and take them down with real wrestling, at least if he's facing jobberish opponents. Completely own them on the mat or something, and save the Germans etc for the big name opponents. But from what I've seen he hasn't got the ability to do that anymore - ergo, he's washed up.

 

Physically, he's been washed up for a long time. I won't disagree with that. But as far as having value goes, he he wasn't washed up when he entered TNA, because of how the fans perceived him, and had plenty of value to give. Naturally with TNA, that value was wasted and he had none of it left in rapid order.

[Steviekick 0]

Well, what he really comes across as to me is a giant version of the guitarist from System Of A Down, but that's besides the point.

 

I'd say he looks more like Scott Ian of Anthrax.

[Ripper 0]

A easier less long winded way of saying it is that the last time the casual fan saw Kurt Angle, he was the "NEW FACE of ECW" and viewed as a threat by the way he was hyped. The last time you saw Christian and Tomko, both were pretty much jobbin it up.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Christian and Tomko are awesome.

 

My problem with Tomko, though, is that he needs to speak the hell up on the mic. He's so soft-spoken, I could hardly hear him during their great interview last night.

 

And blah blah blah, they used to be in WWE, blah blah blah

[cd213 0]

I'm really digging Tomko in TNA, in fact I have always been a fan of Tomko when he was with Christian. I always thought that he was a good bodyguard character. I like that TNA has givien him the chance to show a little character as well.

[Nate 0]

i do get a vibe of that sort, hes aligned with a main eventer much like Batista was he seems to be poised to break away and pursue the TNA World Title, i think guys like Angle/Sting/Christian, etc... come into TNA with that WWE/WCW/ECW reject stench and they try to work that off, guys like Christian, Scott Stiener, and Tomko (at least to me) have worked that stench off of them, now guys like 3D, Angle, Sting seem to have that reject stench, i love Sting dont get me wrong but he hasnt done anything to shed that stench

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

But Sting's been working with TNA a lot longer than the others that you said has shaken the stench off.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

How could Sting possibly be a WCW reject?

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I don't see how you can consider Sting a reject. He was never jobbed out anywhere and he turned down WWE, not the other way around.

 

As for Steiner, I've been really impressed with him during both his TNA runs. He'll never be the worker he was in the early '90s for myriad reasons, but he's at least as good as he was during his WCW title run and worlds better than his WWE stint.

[Toxxic 0]

Steiner busted out the freakin' Frankensteiner, even if it was from the top rope instead of to a running opponent. He looks like he's actually putting effort in and shows some pride in his work, and as a result is coming off much better than his WCW World Title time and the WWE run abortion.

[luke-o 0]

And the altercation with him, Rick and Team 3D on impact this week was really good IMO.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Really? I thought it was terrible. Team 3D came off really badly here.

[luke-o 0]

Im surprised, overall i thought the whole segment was cool. Steiner ripping into ECW was pretty funny, if a little disrespecetful, but thats Scotts character.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

My issue is that Team 3D pretty much flip flopped in one segment. They went from giving the Steiners verbal blowjobs to wanting to kill them, all because the Steiners didn't care for them.

[cd213 0]

I think it's about time 3D either retire or go back to their old ECW ways. They are really stale right now and it seems very few people still care for them.