What If...?

[MFer 0]

What if Nick Anderson made his FT's against Houston in Game 1 of the Finals?

 

1. Do the Magic win the series? (they had homecourt I believe)

 

if that happened...

 

2. Does Shaq stay in Orlando?

 

3. Does Penny's career not go into the tank?

[Red Baron 0]

What if Steve Smith did not bank the puck off of Grant Fuhr leg and Edmonton went to the cup finals. Does Montreal still win the cup or does Edmonton win its third Stanley Cup?

 

What if Jacques Demares did not call the illegal stick on Marty McSorely? LA would have been up 2-0, do they still win the cup or does Montreal come back and win the series?

 

[BruiserKC 0]

Interesting storylines from MLB that someone brought up earlier if the LCS were still at 5 games. Here's the Fall Classics that we would have seen that were different...

 

1985- Toronto-St. Louis

 

1986- California-Mets...no worrying about the ball going through Buckner's legs.

 

1987- Minnesota-San Francisco...would the Twins still have beat the Giants?

 

1991- Minnesota-Pittsburgh...would this Fall Classic been as epic as the one we had IRL? And if the Pirates had somehow won would that have kept Bonds in a Pittsburgh uniform a little bit longer or perhaps for good?

 

1996- Yankees-Cardinals

 

2003-Yankees-Cubs...I have a feeling this would have been a WS for the ages. No worrying about Bartman

 

2004- Houston-Yankees...This and '86 would have shown the Curse of the Bambino would have lived in Boston, plus if the Cubs somehow won the '03 World Series then the Red Sox would remain the loveable losers

 

 

Also I wonder how baseball would be different if in '95 the owners had been able to start the season with replacement players. I feel eventually they would have crushed the union when players started crossing the picket line.

 

 

[CanadianChris 0]

What if Steve Smith did not bank the puck off of Grant Fuhr leg and Edmonton went to the cup finals. Does Montreal still win the cup or does Edmonton win its third Stanley Cup?

I think Edmonton would have taken Montreal pretty easily. Then you're looking at five straight Cups, and possibly marking the Oilers as the greatest dynasty in NHL history.

[Ripper 0]

3. Does Penny's career not go into the tank?

 

Penny's career went in the tank the same way Grant Hills went in the tank. Playing on VERY serious injuries because they didn't want to let their team down. Both refused to sit their asses down in the playoffs with injuries that were career threatening to play on, and destroyed their legacies because of it.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

What if Steve Smith did not bank the puck off of Grant Fuhr leg and Edmonton went to the cup finals. Does Montreal still win the cup or does Edmonton win its third Stanley Cup?

 

What if Jacques Demers did not call the illegal stick on Marty McSorely? LA would have been up 2-0, do they still win the cup or does Montreal come back and win the series?

 

Edmonton should have taken Montreal. There was more than enough offensive punch to get a few past Roy, and Fuhr should have taken care of most of the Habs. I don't see a blowout, but I do see Edmonton in no worse than six, and probably five.

 

On the other hand, Montreal would have won in 1993, but likely in six or seven. Roy won the Conn Smythe that year for a reason, and they had also rebounded after dropping the first two in the first round against Quebec.

[Guest]

Our goaltending was too bad to win that series regardless of the illegal stick.

 

The story of our franchise: Bad Goaltending

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I'll throw in a bit of college hoops "What If" scenarios from the Pitino Era at Kentucky:

 

--What is someone guards the Grant Hill inbounds pass vs. Duke in 1992? Would UK go on to win the national title or lose to either IU or the Fab 5? I personally think that the UK/Duke winner was going to win it all, but who knows.

 

--What if Pitino starts Derek Anderson vs. Arizona in the 1997 title game? I think this one is pretty obvious though.

 

I was a young kid when the UK-Duke game went down in 1992 so I don't know much about the year in terms of college basketball. The biggest test would've been getting past Indiana in the final four moreso than the Fab 5. However, I think UK's squad beats Indiana in a close one and then Pitino outcoaches the Fab 5 to win his first national title. I was curious about this one, though, and went to whatifsports and simulated these matchups three times on a neutral site. UK and Indiana swapped victories in the first two games and then Kentucky smashed Indiana 100-84 in the third game. Also, UK demolished Michigan's squad all three times with the closest game being 65-59.

 

As far as the 1997 title game goes, starting Derek Anderson would've changed the complexion of the title game. That game still pisses me off to this day because a healthy Anderson-led UK squad (assuming he had never injured his ACL) would've demolished Arizona, sports simulators repeat that result over and over again. Of course, UK could've still won that game if Nazi Mohammad had made just one or two more of his numerous free throw attempts that he had in that game.

 

My favorite has always been, what if Roger Craig doesn't fumble in the final minutes of the 1991 NFC Championship game? Do the 49ers, with Steve Young at quarterback due to Joe Montana's broken hand, win their third straight Super Bowl or do the Bills win their first Super Bowl? Either result causes a huge change in history.

 

I think the Bills win their first Super Bowl easy. I doubt the 49ers would have employed the eat up the clock strategy Parcells utilized against the Bills hurry up offense. Instead, I think the 49ers would have tried to outgun the Bills which would have backfired and the Bills are world champions in 1991. Would've been a helluva game though.

 

Bored you led me into the next what if? What if Scott Norwood doesn't go wide-right against the Giants?

 

If that field goal goes in I could see the Bills winning more than just one Super Bowl. They might've had the confidence to win one or two more but whether they could have defeated the '92 Redskins or '93 Cowboys is still up for debate in my book as I felt those teams were superior to the Bills in both of those Super Bowls.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah but it's just easier to say the Bills would have choked against the Niners too.

 

As far as the 1992 UK vs. Michigan possible final, let us not forget that the Fab 5 did beat a much superior UK team in 1993 in the FF (albeit a tainted win in about 10 different ways). That said, considering Michigan were all freshmen I gotta go with UK in 1992.

 

Danville, here's some other Bluegrass "What If?" scenarios:

 

1. What if Terry Howard simply makes 2 FTs in the 1975 FF against UCLA (dude was 100% from the line on the season)? It would have been Louisville vs. Kentucky for the national title...who wins?

 

2. What if UK hadn't been railroaded in the 1986 bracket by having to face LSU for a 4th time? This also would have set up U of L vs. UK in the FF, but who wins and would the winner be able to beat Duke in the finals? I personally think one major reason why U of L won that 86 title is we got to play a chump 11 seed LSU in the FF while Duke and Kansas had a #1 vs. #1 war in the other game.

[Guest •]

How much of a difference does the altitude actually make? Both in terms of cardio as well as things like carrying the ball further for the Rockies? I always thought it was exaggerated but maybe no?

Altitude matters a lot in baseball. The ball travels further through the thinner air in Denver (as well as Chicago, which is a decent 500some feet above sea level), whereas the heavy air at sea level makes home runs harder to hit, as in Los Angeles, San Diego, and Miami.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Just because I saw that year's final four mentioned up there, here's one:

 

What if the refs in the Duke/IU final four game weren't the most incompetent dirty pieces of shit to ever call a ballgame? I swear Laettner went over the back fifteen times that night.

[cabbageboy 0]

In all honesty I don't even remember much about the Duke/IU game other than Duke won by 3. Here's some other hoops what ifs:

 

--What if Webber hadn't called the time out vs. UNC? Though then we could just say he should have been called for the very obvious walk he did. I still think UNC wins the game either way.

 

--Same 1993 tourney. What if Alan Henderson isn't hurt for the 1993 NCAA tourney? IU was #1 in the nation going into it but without him lost to Kansas in the Elite 8. If IU had won that game it would have been all 4 #1 seeds in the FF. Would IU have beaten UNC? We know they could have beaten the Fab 5.

 

This isn't a What If really, but more of a question. How the hell did Florida make the Final 4 in 1994? That was such a mediocre team that did nothing to impress me the entire year. Maybe it's because that year alone I saw my local teams beat their asses several times. I think UK beat them 2/3 times (FL's lone win was during a massive snowstorm whereas UK barely got out of the state in time for the game). U of L beat them by like 15 in Maui. I have no idea how that team beat UConn in the Sweet 16 and then damn near beat Duke in the FF.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I'd take a crack at your other UK "what if's" cabbage but I'm not a big expert on the 1970s in terms of college basketball. I know the teams that won the title and who they had but don't know too many specifics about games, etc. so I'll not comment on those.

 

I've got a big blue one of my own, though, and it might be too easy:

 

What if Rick Pitino never left UK for Boston? Would UK still be the elite program it was in the 1990s today or would it still have slipped behind Florida, UCLA, etc. as it did under Tubby?

[Scarlett_Rayne 0]

What is the Black Sox Scandal never happened?

 

Shoeless Joe Jackson would definitely be in the Hall of Fame and would have probably surpassed Ty Cobb as all-time hit leader back then and might be #2 on the list behind Rose today. There would probably have not been a baseball Commissioner for many years to come which could have either meant great news for the integration of baseball (Landis was extremely against integration and thus after he died and Happy Chandler became commissioner, that's when integration happened) or extremely bad news for integration (ie: the owners pact against integration). Babe Ruth would probably not have been seen as the "savior of baseball" and would have been seen as just a power hitter.

 

Anyone want to expand on this some more? I mean the possibilities are almost endless with this one

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

What is the Black Sox Scandal never happened?

 

Shoeless Joe Jackson would definitely be in the Hall of Fame and would have probably surpassed Ty Cobb as all-time hit leader back then and might be #2 on the list behind Rose today. There would probably have not been a baseball Commissioner for many years to come which could have either meant great news for the integration of baseball (Landis was extremely against integration and thus after he died and Happy Chandler became commissioner, that's when integration happened) or extremely bad news for integration (ie: the owners pact against integration). Babe Ruth would probably not have been seen as the "savior of baseball" and would have been seen as just a power hitter.

 

Anyone want to expand on this some more? I mean the possibilities are almost endless with this one

1. Joe Jackson does not come close to the hit record. He had 1,774 career hits. Cobb had 2,361 at the age of 30, nearly a 600 hit lead. Jackson however would absolutely have made the Hall of Fame.

 

2. Babe Ruth retains his status as the game's great slugger. Remember he hit 54 home runs in 1920 before the news of the Black Sox scandal broke, and it was August 1921 before Landis banned the eight players. The cat is out of the bag at that point. The Yankees attendance doubled in 1920. Owners would have taken note of that, even absent a crisis.

 

3. The big one here is that gambling remains a HUGE problem in baseball. The real issue wasn't the Black Sox scandal. It was that similar whispers were running rampant throughout the decade, and it was only a matter of time before something exploded. If it doesn't happen in 1919, maybe it happens in 1923. Maybe Ruth throws the World Series and gets tossed from the game. Landis was harsh in banning the players, but that STOPPED the rumors of thrown games, and that was more important to saving the game than any other factor.

 

To me the big "what ifs" involve Landis. Does the power struggle between Ban Johnson and the Comiskey sect of owners come to a head? If Landis does not assume power, what becomes of the organized minor leagues? Does a different commissioner oppose Rickey as strongly?

[Guest]

What if the Cowboys don't trade Herschel Walker?

[Scarlett_Rayne 0]

Here's some more for baseball fans.

 

(well this could even go with just sports writing style in general) What if "Ball Four" had never been written? Where would sports journalism, writing and reporting be today?

 

What if Jackie Robinson had not been the one to break the color barrier?

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, if Robinson didn't then I guess Larry Doby would have a little while later? It was likely going to happen either way.

 

Danville, your Pitino question is a fascinating one and the answers aren't easy. I think that UK might have stayed a perennial contender in the next century (maybe one another title or two), but they wouldn't have won the 1998 national title. Let's face it, there was a reason Pitino went to the NBA. He took a look at that roster coming back and said "No Anderson? No Mercer? No Epps? Fuck that." I don't think Pitino would have believed in that particular team the way Tubby did, since he himself had a lot to prove in 98. For instance there's no way in hell UK wins that Elite 8 game vs. Duke.

 

As far as the Black Sox scandal, it's hard to say. The rise of the Yankees with Ruth had a minimal amount to do with it and more to do with the Red Sox trading/selling guys foolishly. The White Sox may have stayed contenders for a while longer, but it's hard to see them winning the pennant over the Yankees. The White Sox falling apart after the scandal and the Red Sox generally screwing up left a massive power vacuum in the AL during the 1920s (Yankees won the AL 6 times in the decade, with the Indians winning in 20, the Senators won a couple years when Ruth was ailing). It really wasn't until the resurgence of the Philly A's in 1929 that the AL had another really powerful team.

[Scarlett_Rayne 0]

Well, if Robinson didn't then I guess Larry Doby would have a little while later? It was likely going to happen either way.

 

Would Doby have been as successful and as accepted as Robinson? I honestly can't think of anyone else off the top of my head but Robinson to break the color barrier. I mean Branch Rickey picked the most model Negro League player in the system. Robinson was a top notch athlete and also an intelligent man having gone to UCLA, plus it didn't hurt that he was an ex GI either. Had Rickey not picked Robinson or had Robinson not existed, it's hard to say when the color barrier would have been broken. Honestly, if it didn't happen then and there with Robinson, could one go out on a limb and say that perhaps the integration of America could have been pushed back as well? I swear taking that baseball history class just gave me more questions than answers

 

 

What if Ted Williams had not lost years of play to the military?

 

Ted Williams would have easily hit well over 3000, possibly had another .400 season and would have had around 600 hrs.

 

What if Lou Gehrig had not gotten sick in 1938?

 

Cal Ripken may not have been able to break the streak. Gehrig had a few seasons left in him had he not gotten sick.

 

so anyone willing to tackle the Jim Bouton "Ball Four" what if?

 

 

[Guest bigrick0016]

- What if the Cleveland Indians hadnot traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn?

Would the Indians have dodged the 40 years of futility and low attendance that followed? Do we not give up our best prosdpects to get him back?

 

- What if George Steinbrenner had actually bought the Indians?

He tried to buy us before NY. I believe it was like '74?

 

-What if Earnest Byner didn't fumble on the 2 yard line?

What probably would've happened is Schottenheimer finds another way to choke.

 

-What if "The Drive" never occured? What if Marty didn't put us in a prevent defense for the drive? What if the referee's extracted their heads that were firmly lodged up their asses and actually called the game winning FG wide left like it was?

 

-What if the Ping-Pong balls did not give the Cavaliers LeBron?

 

-What if Modell did not steal the Browns from Cleveland in 1995? What if the NFL grew a pair and did not let that no good, two-timing, lying, cunt, bastard leave just because he was part of the "Old Boys Club"?

 

-What if Craig Ehlo wasn't slow and white?

 

-What if Mike Hargrove did not put in Jose Mesa in Game 7 of the 1997 Series?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As far as the Black Sox scandal, it's hard to say. The rise of the Yankees with Ruth had a minimal amount to do with it and more to do with the Red Sox trading/selling guys foolishly. The White Sox may have stayed contenders for a while longer, but it's hard to see them winning the pennant over the Yankees. The White Sox falling apart after the scandal and the Red Sox generally screwing up left a massive power vacuum in the AL during the 1920s (Yankees won the AL 6 times in the decade, with the Indians winning in 20, the Senators won a couple years when Ruth was ailing). It really wasn't until the resurgence of the Philly A's in 1929 that the AL had another really powerful team.

 

It did in a way. One of the reasons the scandal blew up the way it did was because of the animosity between league president Ban Johnson and White Sox owner Charles Comiskey. Comiskey was part of an anti-Johnson sect of owners that included Harry Frazee and the Yankees' owner, I believe Col. Ruppert. Consequently when Frazee made a trade, he had two options (inter-league trading was extremely rare).

 

The Yankees would have dominated the decade regardless. The A's were competitive beginning in 1925. The St. Louis Browns oddly were competitive in the early '20s, and came this close to winning the pennant in 1922. When it comes to the White Sox, it is hard to imagine seven players making up 36.5 games. Looking at win shares though to compare the Black Sox to their 1921 counterparts, losing Jackson cost them 8-9 games. Losing Buck Weaver cost them six wins. Happy Felsch cost them another six wins. Losing Lefty Williams and Eddie Cicotte cost them 10 more wins. That is 30-32 wins total lost from the Black Sox leaving. If the Sox don't win in 1921 however, I'm not sure if they do again.

[cabbageboy 0]

Here's a what if in baseball moving up a few years: What if the Great Depression hadn't hurt the Philadelphia A's? Could Mack have kept that group intact and would they have been as well regarded as the Yankees of the time period?

 

I was actually surprised to see that the A's from 1929-31 had a better overall record than the Yankees from 1926-28. Ironically the Cardinals beat both of those juggernaut teams in 7 games to keep them from having threepeats (Cardinals over Yankees in 26, then over A's in 31).

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Here's a what if in baseball moving up a few years: What if the Great Depression hadn't hurt the Philadelphia A's? Could Mack have kept that group intact and would they have been as well regarded as the Yankees of the time period?

 

I was actually surprised to see that the A's from 1929-31 had a better overall record than the Yankees from 1926-28. Ironically the Cardinals beat both of those juggernaut teams in 7 games to keep them from having threepeats (Cardinals over Yankees in 26, then over A's in 31).

The A's finished 19.5 back of the Senators in 1933 when all they had sold off was Al Simmons and Jimmie Dykes (who was 35). The team slipped before Mack sold off his stars.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I was bored and did the following on the WhatIf Sports Simulator... Sites along with Away vs. Home were taken from that year's superbowl. I was curious what would happen if a couple "Championship Games" finished the other way.

 

1998 Minnesota Vikings (15-1, 556 PF) vs. 1998 Denver Broncos (14-2, 501 PF) @ Qualcomm Stadium

- Denver Broncos win 27-24 on an Ed McCaffrey 5 yard TD catch with 2:05 left in the game.

- MVP: RB Terrell Davis with 22 carries for 158 yards and 2 TD. Also had 1 catch for 40 yards.

- John Elway went 10/16 for 180 yards and 1 TD. -6 yards rushing on 5 carries.

- Randall Cunningham went 14/25 for 237 yards and 3 TD.

 

1994 Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4, 316 PF) vs. 1994 San Francisco 49ers (13-3, 505 PF) @ Joe Robbie Stadium.

- Pittsburgh Steelers win 17-9.

- MVP: QB Neil O'Donnell with 12/22 for 182 yards with 1 TD. 0 yards rushing on 2 carries.

- Steve Young went 17/22 for 183 yards with 0 TD and 0 INT. 19 yards rushing on 4 carries.

- Jerry Rice had 5 catches for 29 yards.

- Bam Morris had 13 carries for 65 yards and 1 catch for 5 yards with 0 TD.

 

2001 St. Louis Rams (14-2, 503 PF) vs. 2001 Pittsburgh Steelers (13-3, 352 PF) @ Louisiana Superdome

- Pittsburgh Steelers win 24-14.

- MVP: WR Isaac Bruce with 4 catches for 129 yards and 2 TD. Also had 1 carry for 9 yards.

- Kurt Warner went 18/26 for 313 yards with 2 TD and 3 INT. 2 yards rushing on 2 carries.

- Marshall Faulk had 19 carries for 155 yards with 4 catches for 43 yards. 0 TD.

- Jerome Bettis had 22 carries for 181 yards with 1 TD.

- Chad Scott had 7 tackles with 1 INT.

[Slayer 0]

1998 Minnesota Vikings (15-1, 556 PF) vs. 1998 Denver Broncos (14-2, 501 PF) @ Qualcomm Stadium

The '98 SB was at Joe Robbie. Jack Murphy Stadium was the previous year (Broncos over Packers)

 

1994 Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4, 316 PF) vs. 1994 San Francisco 49ers (13-3, 505 PF) @ Joe Robbie Stadium.

- Pittsburgh Steelers win 17-9.

- MVP: QB Neil O'Donnell with 12/22 for 182 yards with 1 TD. 0 yards rushing on 2 carries.

- Steve Young went 17/22 for 183 yards with 0 TD and 0 INT. 19 yards rushing on 4 carries.

- Jerry Rice had 5 catches for 29 yards.

- Bam Morris had 13 carries for 65 yards and 1 catch for 5 yards with 0 TD.

I don't recall how good the Steelers defense was that year, but there's no way they would keep Young that contained... his work in 1994 was one of the best complete year performances ever by a QB.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Well it's certain that a Vikings-Broncos game would've been a helluva lot better than the Falcons-Broncos game we got instead for the Super Bowl.

 

If you think about it a lot of changes might have happened if Gary Anderson had made that field goal and Minnesota won the NFC title (or hadn't fumbled near the end zone late in the game). First, Dennis Green would've become the first black coach to lead a team to the Super Bowl a little less than a decade before Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith were able to. Also, it might mean that Green is still coaching in Minnesota today as opposed to being remembered for last year's meltdown in Arizona with "crown their ass." Second, it would've further cemented Randall Cunningham's legacy and given him a chance to finally win a Super Bowl that always elluded him.

 

My dad is a big Vikings fan and to this day he's still super pissed about that Falcons game. He talks about it as if someone died everytime he watches a Vikings game.

 

I've got another "what if" from that '98 season, though:

 

What if Steve Young doesn't get injured in the divisional game versus Atlanta? Do the 49ers manage to win and play Minnesota in the NFC title game? If they do win, do they beat Minnesota and play the Broncos instead?

[Guest Vitamin X]

That 98 Vikings team was probably the best one they've had and might have for a while now since the Purple People Eaters of the 70's. Certainly one of the best offenses we've ever seen in the league.

 

I mean, of course I was happy to see them lose, especially after they spoiled the Lambeau winning streak earlier that season, but I was super pissed we missed out on what could've potentially been a hell of a game. Cunningham trying to redeem himself after Elway finally got his the year before, and just a good ol' fashioned offense vs. defense matchup. Although that what-if simulator is somewhat misleading- the Vikes' defense that year was infamous for generating a ton of turnovers and they definitely would've caused some problems for the Broncos there, Elway or not.

 

Agreed with Slayer on the 94 Niners. The Steelers were a good team that year also, don't get me wrong, but 9 points for San Francisco? Please. These weren't the `00 Ravens we were talking about here.

 

If Young doesn't get injured in the divisional game vs. Atlanta, they probably win that game, but get squashed by the Vikings in the NFC Title game. As I remember it, San Francisco had no f'n business being in the divisional game in the first place. The NFC was really Minny's to take that year.

[Ripper 0]

What if the falcons hadn't gone to the superbowl in 1998?

 

You think the local press would remember that the falcons fucking SUCKED for 20 years before Vick got here and for some reason, now if we don't win the Super Bowl every year its because "vick is the worst QB EVAR!!!!"

[Slayer 0]

My dad is a big Vikings fan and to this day he's still super pissed about that Falcons game. He talks about it as if someone died everytime he watches a Vikings game.

To this day there's two sets of Vikings game footage I can't bring myself to watch in any manner

 

One is the '98 NFC Title game

 

The other, btw, was the last second loss to Arizona in '03

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Surprisingly, the '94 Steelers D was pretty great. Only 234 PA on the season while ranking Top 7 or higher in every category except pass INT and pass attempts. They only allowed 7 rushing TD and 12 passing TD (vs. 17 INT). Outside of the SB, Young was very pedestrian in the 2 prior playoff games. He had 143 yards passing and 155 yards passing (on 22 and 29 attempts) with 3 TD vs. 0 INT. He also had 32 and 47 yards rushing in each game.

 

If anything, the What If simulator merely prolonged that performance to the "Super Bowl" game and given the Steelers D, that may not have been that far fetched.

 

Interestingly, the Belichek Browns only allowed 204 points that season too

 

Here's my what if...

 

What if the 1995 Browns had won some of the close games they lost? Instead of going 5-11 they went 9-7? Would they have been given a Wild Card nod over Indianapolis or San Diego?

 

Also if they had made the playoffs, would Belichek have stayed there as Head Coach?