Changing moments where guys who got titles/retained...

[Boxer 0]

First, I'd like to start off saying, if this thread has been done already, I apoligize. If I tried to type this in the search function, I'm sure the results would be insane.

 

So basically, if you could go back in time, to where a certain wrestler got a belt, but you felt like another wrestler should've gotten the belt at that specific time instead. After reading the What If thread and the whole Austin-RVD storyline that didn't get pushed, I'm gonna start off with that one.

 

Instead of Angle defeating Austin at Unforgiven, RVD should've won the WWF title. It was the right time, and the crowd would've ate that stuff up HUGE.

 

Another one I'm gonna go with was HHH retaining at Summerslam 03 in the Chamber. Goldberg was actually over with that crowd and that would've made him a monster again winning the title in a match like that. It was the right moment for him, but good ol' HHH had to retain.

 

Vader should've won the WWF title at Survivor Series instead of Sid. I still don't understand why they put the belt on him at that time. Vader would've been a better champion, but maybe he was damaged goods by then or something.

 

Edit: one more that popped up in my head, Jericho over HHH Raw in April of 2000. That was the right time for Jericho and once again, the fans ate that stuff up HUGE when he got the pin.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Another one I'm gonna go with was HHH retaining at Summerslam 03 in the Chamber. Goldberg was actually over with that crowd and that would've made him a monster again winning the title in a match like that. It was the right moment for him, but good ol' HHH had to retain.

This is the first match that came to mind when I saw the subject of the thread. That crowd were dying for Goldberg to win and they would have gone beyond crazy and blown the roof off of the arena. They desperately wanted Goldberg to win and were going crazy as he mowed down one wrestler after another. But of course, an immobile HHH had to retain with about the only thing he was physically capable of doing, the sledgehammer shot. This was the very definition of a town killing finish.

[Guest Smues]

Instead of Angle defeating Austin at Unforgiven, RVD should've won the WWF title. It was the right time, and the crowd would've ate that stuff up HUGE.

 

No way, Angle was on a huge roll at that point, and if I recall Unforgiven was in his home town. He should have won it a month earlier at Summerslam, however, and not dropped it 2 fucking weeks later.

 

I'll go with Kane should have won at No Mercy 2002 instead of HHH because I'm a Kane mark. There's probably a zillion others I could list involving HHH (what a shocker) but instead I'll mention that the Big Bossman really should have won the IC belt at Wrestlemania VII. He was on such a roll at that point and it wouldn't have really hurt Mr. Perfect. And it was Wrestlemania and all, where you're supposed to blow off the big fueds, not have cheap DQ endings.

 

Vader should've won the WWF title at Survivor Series instead of Sid. I still don't understand why they put the belt on him at that time. Vader would've been a better champion, but maybe he was damaged goods by then or something.

 

I think the deal with that was Shawn refusing to job it to Vader and instead wanting to drop the belt to Sid. Which of course resulted in the December PPV still being called In Your House: It's Time! despite not having Vader in a title fight. Thanks Shawn.

 

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Kurt Angle: It was Pittsburgh, had to happen.

 

Sid: Honestly, I think fans preferred Sid over Vader at that point. Vader never really connected for some reason post-WCW.

 

Goldberg: Yeah, I buy that.

 

Big Boss Man: You can switch the title but it kills Bret's big win at Summerslam. That's the trouble with looking at a reign, particularly HHH's. You can give the big title win to a Booker T or Kane. But you can't keep doing it. If HHH drops the belt at Wrestlemania XIX, how big is it when he drops to Goldberg, or to Benoit the next year?

 

I couple obvious ones, Luger at Great American Bash '88 and Hulk Hogan at Super Sunday.

[CanadianChris 0]

Hulk Hogan at Super Sunday.

That was the only one that came to mind for me. I've always wondered how things would have unfolded for the business in general, and for Vince and Verne Gagne in particular, if Verne had put the belt on Hogan in 1983. It was, quite simply, the worst business decision ever made by a wrestling promoter.

[Guest Mos_Def]

The Road Warriors losing at Starrcade '87, by DQ to Blanchard/Anderson, has to go down as one of the more boneheaded booking decisions of all time. There were in CHICAGO!!

 

 

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Bret Hart defeating Yokozuna at WM IX

 

RVD defeating HHH at Unforgiven instead. RVD was at his peak right here shortly following him dropping the IC title to Jericho prior to the PPV. I felt like this would have been the perfect time for him to get the title but of course HHH retained and his overness began to die a slowly painful death into the months following.

 

Booker T over HHH at WM XIX for the obvious reason

 

 

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't think that RVD should have won the belt from Austin at No Mercy 2001. Wasn't quite the right time for it. In another thread I pondered this exact scenario. Frankly, Angle lost all sorts of steam as a face post 9/11....just something about his American hero act was phony and uncomfortable. He won the title in his hometown right after 9/11 cause he had to, but it almost seemed manipulative. RVD was easily more over than him.

 

With that said, I have Austin retain there by pinning Angle and NOT RVD. Then I do RVD/Austin at Survivor Series and that would be where I'd put the belt on RVD. The bigger issue here is what happens after this if they keep the Alliance going. Do they boot Austin and support RVD? Would RVD have been HHH's job bitch at WM the way Jericho was?

 

The other obvious stuff here is Luger over Flair at GAB 88, even if he was going to job the belt at Starrcade back to Flair. And of course Hogan and Bockwinkel in 1983. The AWA and NWA made it easy for the WWF in the 1980s, I swear. Both promotions did their utmost to kill their business with historic level bad booking.

[Drury37 0]

Lex Luger beating Yokozuna by countout at SummerSlam 1993, just absurd.

[JHawk 0]

With that said, I have Austin retain there by pinning Angle and NOT RVD. Then I do RVD/Austin at Survivor Series and that would be where I'd put the belt on RVD. The bigger issue here is what happens after this if they keep the Alliance going. Do they boot Austin and support RVD? Would RVD have been HHH's job bitch at WM the way Jericho was?

 

I had predicted RVD would hit the frog splash on Angle and Austin would sneak in for the pin while RVD was selling his ribs. In fact, to this day that's how I would have booked that finish, leading to the RVD-Austin blowoff at Survivor Series.

 

[Quasar 0]

Edit: one more that popped up in my head, Jericho over HHH Raw in April of 2000. That was the right time for Jericho and once again, the fans ate that stuff up HUGE when he got the pin.

 

No, no, absolutely not. Putting the belt on Chris Jericho would've been the opposite of good business. The "title change" took place just 13 days prior to Backlash, where THE ROCK (you know, that guy who drew tons of money) was scheduled to get his big title win. Why in the hell do smarks think that Chris Jericho should've won the belt there? The Rock was clearly being built up as the next WWF Champion and he had been screwed out of the WWF Championship by the McMahon-Helmsley Regime at WrestleMania 2000. The Rock had to win the WWF Championship. So, do you want Jericho's first reign to have lasted 13 days by chance?

 

Jericho got a pop because he dethroned TRIPLE H as champion, I'm not denying that Jericho was over but remember, TAKA Michinoku got a pop for pinning Triple H but we aren't clamouring for a TAKA title reign. Jericho went on to have a good feud with Chris Benoit that did a better job of elevating both then a hotshot title reign would've. In fact, I'd argue that the Rock/Benoit program should've led to a Benoit title win at SummerSlam with HHH/Angle getting their own match in the undercard.

[Boxer 0]

Looking back, I should've named this thread: Guys fans were DYING for to win the/a title. I think that was what I was trying to get across on that long ass title thread there.

 

So the only guy we agree with here was Goldberg at Summerslam eh?

 

Another one I'd like to add: Bret over Hogan at Summerslam 93. I'm pretty sure quite a few fans were pissed at what happened to Bret at the show and the set up all but made this match.............. but we know the rest. I'm sure the fans would buy Bret defeating Hogan for the title.

 

Now he wasn't super over, but that Hardy-Taker ladder match. Would that qualify too? Since the crowd was so hoping he would sneak a surprise victory.

 

As for RVD, if not No Mercy, which title match were the fans DYING to see him win a strap the most?

 

vs. Undertaker, Raw 2002, won but the decision reversed

vs. Triple H, Unforgiven

vs. HBK/HHH/Booker T/Kane/Jericho, Survivor Series, Elimination Chamber

vs. HBK, Raw 2002

 

I think RVD is a guy who had more than enough title shots to win it all, especially in 2002, yet the WWE kept taking away that opportunity.

 

It's funny after 5 World Title Shots within a year, am I correct in terms of my memory that he didn't get another title shot Until One Night Stand 2006?

 

Also, I'm sure the fans wanted The Rock to win the title at Wrestlemania 2000, when Triple H retained, I'm sure there was a collective groan. That was The Rock's moment, too bad he didn't get it.

 

I think I see a common trend here with Triple H being a main culprit. For all the slack he gets, didn't the fans actually want him to win a title though? The feud with Angle and I believe it was No Mercy? when Steph chose Hunter instead of Angle. If I remember correctly, the fans were cheering for Hunter to turn face and win the strap, so when he stayed a heel and reunited with Steph, that also deflated the crowd and killed that storyline.

 

Another point on Hunter, didn't the fans want to cheer him on after Wrestlemania X-7 when Austin aligned with McMahon and out comes Hunter after Austin beats on The Rock. Unless I'm wrong, for that night only at least, did the fans actualy get behind him and want Hunter to chase Austin for the WWF title? How odd would it be that two years after the Attitude Era, we could've had a FACE Hunter vs. a HEEL Austin.

[Quasar 0]

Actually, Triple H never turned back heel officially until he revealed that he conspired with Rikishi to run down Stone Cold. HHH was a face at No Mercy taking on the heel Chris Benoit. Stephanie chose Triple H as her lover but remained with Kurt Angle as his "business partner" leading him to the WWF Championship at No Mercy.

[Boxer 0]

Actually, Triple H never turned back heel officially until he revealed that he conspired with Rikishi to run down Stone Cold. HHH was a face at No Mercy taking on the heel Chris Benoit. Stephanie chose Triple H as her lover but remained with Kurt Angle as his "business partner" leading him to the WWF Championship at No Mercy.

 

I see, the mind was definately blurred around that time for me.

[Quasar 0]

And in actuality, wasn't the plan before Triple H's quad injury for him to turn face and feud with Austin?

 

For some reason though, I can't see Triple H leading the WWF against Austin and The Alliance mainly because HHH's kayfabe marriage to Stephanie. Although, the WWF could've added spousal feud to the Alliance, it's not like it wasn't already a McMahon vs. McMahon war anyway.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Now he wasn't super over, but that Hardy-Taker ladder match. Would that qualify too? Since the crowd was so hoping he would sneak a surprise victory.

 

Nah, if that were the case we'd count every face challenger versus every heel champion, ever.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Lex Luger beating Yokozuna by countout at SummerSlam 1993, just absurd.

 

I agree. The fans were ready to blow the roof off the joint if Luger had won this match by pinfall but Vince wanted to drag out the chase till WrestleMania where, of course, booking plans got changed. I see this match as Yokozuna's best WWF match ever and probably one of the best commentated matches of Vince McMahon's broadcasting career.

[Papacita 0]

In fact, I'd argue that the Rock/Benoit program should've led to a Benoit title win at SummerSlam with HHH/Angle getting their own match in the undercard.

Don't know about having Benoit win at that time, but I've always thought that a SummerSlam rematch was the way to go for those two.

 

Also, as far as Vader goes, wasn't there an issue where he was injured somehow leading into Survivor Series 96, making them a little reluctant to put the belt on him at that time?

 

I've always felt RVD should've won the original Elimination Chamber match. Not only had they been teasing a title push with him for a while (with Austin, Taker, HHH, etc), but the story going into the match was that HBK didn't care about the belt and just wanted to see HHH lose. Maybe have Shawn and HHH eliminate each other, leaving RVD and Jericho as the final two, with RVD going over in the end.

 

I also think HHH should've gone over Austin at SummerSlam 99 rather than getting the win over Foley the next night.

 

Booker T should've somehow retained the WCW Title against the Rock at SummerSlam 01 (that loss really hurt his credibility and the credibility of the Alliance) and Austin really should have retained against Angle at Unforgiven 01, although I understand why they felt Kurt had to go over.

[cabbageboy 0]

I too have never understood the idea that Jericho should have beaten HHH in April 2000. It was merely a test of the waters to see if Jericho could draw a big response as champ. Rock vs. HHH was already signed for Backlash, so there was nothing you could do with Jericho at that point. With that said, the way Jericho was booked in 2000 was pretty awful. He mostly jobbed to Benoit and Angle, and then his actual big match with HHH (LMS) he jobbed there too.

 

Never understood the fondness some have for Jeff vs. UT on Raw, ladder match. It was okay but I never seriously thought Hardy was going to win the belt.

 

One thing I never understood about that late 2001 period was why they stopped the Austin/RVD angle. They could have kept that going after the Invasion was over. In fact I have always found the Invasion to be an underrated angle. It at least had a beginning, middle, and end, the right side won out in the end, and quite a bit of the action was superb. SummerSlam 2001, Unforgiven 01, and No Mercy 01 were all really excellent PPVs from what I recall.

[CanadianChris 0]

I too have never understood the idea that Jericho should have beaten HHH in April 2000. It was merely a test of the waters to see if Jericho could draw a big response as champ.

It's too bad they decided to completely ignore the big response he did get. He didn't get another win that was remotely high-profile until his feud with X-Pac in the fall. Kind of on topic, I really think that Jericho should have gone over HHH at Fully Loaded, or at least gotten a draw.

[10 Pounds 0]

Also, as far as Vader goes, wasn't there an issue where he was injured somehow leading into Survivor Series 96, making them a little reluctant to put the belt on him at that time?

 

I also think HHH should've gone over Austin at SummerSlam 99 rather than getting the win over Foley the next night.

 

 

I read somewhere that Shawn was more in favor of Sid being the champ rather than Vader because he knew Sid would bomb whereas Vader would have gotten uberover as a monster champ.

 

For Summerslam '99, HHH winning was always the solution except that Jesse Ventura, who was governer at the time, didn't want to raise the hand of a heel, thus the Foley transitional reign.

[spman 0]

I really can't come up with any good reason as to why Booker T should not have gone over Triple H at Wrestlemania 19. That was the most one sided feud of all time, between Triple H and his vaguely racist promos on RAW building up to the show, and Triple H always getting the advantage, Booker T definitely should have gotten the belt there, but of course you know Vince McMahon, god forbid you push someone who made a name for himself in another promotion, it might prove that maybe someone else has a good idea at some point....

[edgehead69 0]

1. Booker T vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XIX) - The Story was so appealing and I really will say to the day that I die that Booker should have one it that night... Im still pissed about it... I did cry of joy though when Booker beat Rey at Bash 06 (My Favorite Moment of 2006)

 

2. RVD vs Anyone - He should have feuded with Austin and won because although in a heel faction, He was OVER as hell!!! He should have beaten HHH sometime in 02 and IMHO... If he hadnt gotten injured, it wouldve been RVD vs JBL at Wrestlemania 21.

 

3. Christian vs Chris Jericho vs John Cena - I was one of Christains peeps (and still are), I was rooting for him to win the match and become the WWE Champ because he deserved it..... Jericcho couldve won and I would felt the exact same way...

 

4. Edge vs John Cena (Royal Rumble) - Edge should have won this and went on to Wrestlemania to defend his title against Cena and HHH. It was a travesty and I rue that day sooo much..

 

5. Eddie Guerrero vs Batista - Although Eddie was set to win the title on the tragic day of his untimely death, this wouldve have meant just as much as his WWE title victory over Brock, and it was his Birthday...

 

6. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Unforgiven) - I feel for this match the same way I feel for my #1 Orton should have lost it later the year... It couldve been Batista vs Randy at Mania or Batista vs HHH vs Randy!

 

7. WWE Champioship Challenge - He was on track to beat JBL's Reign... He did that... and I lost 25 dollars.... Cena winning hit me much more...

 

8. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle - Although I had no qualms with Rey winning, my money was on Orton... He really shouldve won... hell it be somethin if Angle won too! Crowd was really pro Angle

 

9. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - I thought the Heartbreak Kid had this won.... Although id rather a young lion be main eventing... i really hoped HBK would do it and be a 5 time champ like his smackdown counterpart, The Undertaker.

 

10. Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble) - Benoit wins... sets up Triple Theat at XIX ( Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit)

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Benoit/Angle? Putting Benoit over would've killed two Wrestlemania main events. XIX becomes a three-way instead of the obvious one-on-one match fans wanted to see. XX loses its mystique when Benoit merely becomes a two-time WWE champion.

 

I don't see Booker/HHH. Yes, the feud was done wrong. Taking the title off HHH right before the Goldberg program would've been a mistake. They would've had to pull the title off Booker by Summerslam, or feed him to Goldberg himself.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

2. RVD vs Anyone - If he hadnt gotten injured, it wouldve been RVD vs JBL at Wrestlemania 21.

 

No it wouldn't have.

[edgehead69 0]

2. RVD vs Anyone - If he hadnt gotten injured, it wouldve been RVD vs JBL at Wrestlemania 21.

 

No it wouldn't have.

 

U sure... i mean JBL ran through anyone and Cena happened to be at the right place at the right time

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

They wanted Cena to win the title probably since Mania 20. The U.S. title run was his warmup before the big title.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I don't see it as RVD vs. JBL at all that year. There were no signs of this whatsoever on TV. Cena was obviously being groomed for that WM spot, whereas all RVD was doing was tagging with Rey in late 2004/early 2005. In fact if RVD doesn't have the serious leg surgery I bet he would have been the one to do the heel turn on Rey and feud with him. But what does Eddie do at that point? Another round with JBL? Trade to Raw? I doubt they would job out RVD to Rey the amount of times Eddie ended up jobbing to him, and there would have been no Dominic crap either. And it would have been a fresh matchup.

[BorneAgain 0]

From what I recall of late 2004, they seemed to be setting up a tag feud of RVD/Rey vs. Booker/Eddie (they had a solid match on the last SD of the year), before Van Dam's injury screwed that up and they jobbed the titles to the Bashams and eventually getting those two against Edde/Rey while Booker was stuck with Heidenreich.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

^ Really? I always thought it was going to be RVD Vs. Mysterio at WM 21, but Rob got hurt so Eddie took his place and the story continued (seeing how Rey got the tag belts back with his new partner).

 

I do remember there was talk of RVD Vs. JBL for ONS II since they were being protective of Cena (I wouldn't have minded Van Dam becoming World Heavyweight Champion after Frog Splashing JBL), but that was before JBL suffered his untimely back injury, which is a shame because I was DYING to see Bradshaw beat Rey's ass at Judgment Day that year.

 

No, no, absolutely not. Putting the belt on Chris Jericho would've been the opposite of good business. The "title change" took place just 13 days prior to Backlash, where THE ROCK (you know, that guy who drew tons of money) was scheduled to get his big title win. Why in the hell do smarks think that Chris Jericho should've won the belt there? The Rock was clearly being built up as the next WWF Champion and he had been screwed out of the WWF Championship by the McMahon-Helmsley Regime at WrestleMania 2000. The Rock had to win the WWF Championship. So, do you want Jericho's first reign to have lasted 13 days by chance?

 

Jericho got a pop because he dethroned TRIPLE H as champion, I'm not denying that Jericho was over but remember, TAKA Michinoku got a pop for pinning Triple H but we aren't clamouring for a TAKA title reign. Jericho went on to have a good feud with Chris Benoit that did a better job of elevating both then a hotshot title reign would've. In fact, I'd argue that the Rock/Benoit program should've led to a Benoit title win at SummerSlam with HHH/Angle getting their own match in the undercard.

 

Speaking of WM 2000, The Rock definitely should have won there with the Backlash finish being been done there instead too. That would have been GREAT!

 

8. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle

 

Randy or Kurt should have definitely won here. Rey becoming World Heavyweight Champion = worst WM moment ever IMO

 

6. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Unforgiven)

 

Can't believe I totally forgot about this. Not only was it a piss poor match with a shitty finish (Orton losing the title a month after winning it? WTF?), but HHH pretty much KILLED almost all of Randy's credbility as a main eventer.

 

4. Edge vs John Cena (Royal Rumble)

 

Agreed. The ONE time I was actually begging for a DQ finish.