Does the younger generation remember WCW?

[luke-o 0]

I wonder how much of Brisco's comments were worked and how much he really meant.

 

Personally I've never blamed Bischoff for signing the ECW guys. To him it would just be like signing some guys off the indy scene and nothing more. In fact some like Eddie and Malenko ended up in WCW due to New Japan's relationship with WCW. Most of the guys WCW took were simply in ECW to get some exposure in US wrestling, either the luchadores or the guys who made a bigger name in Japan (Benoit, Jericho).

 

It does annoy me that, no matter what DVD it is, if they mention WCW, they make them out to be run by the devil. And Bischoff was the most evil man alive.

 

Look at the rise and fall of ECW dvd, Heyman is pissing and moaning about getting his talent and Bischoff turns around and says, "yeah, I signed some of their talent, most of them weren't being paid". At least Heyman has the balls to admit that Bischoff was a smart buisnessman. Vince just appears to never give the man, or the comapny any credit.

 

Actually, can someone help me out with Rise and Fall. When they're talking about the curcifiction of The Sandman angle, the DVD says that Kurt walked out of ECW due to it, but in Raven's shoot interview he says that he's asked Kurt about it and Kurt's never had a problem with it and it was in fact Taz that complained. Can anyone shed any light?

[cabbageboy 0]

All I've heard about that Raven angle was that Angle got pissed. Who knows.

 

Can we now say that putting Nitro on Monday was a big mistake? It upset me at the time since I would have much rather WCW done a show on Thursday or whenever rather than at the same time as Raw. I think a lot of people enjoyed watching both companies. While I don't think Bischoff was a devil and that WWE is melodramatic to some degree, Bischoff WAS a huge dick. The demented thing is that Bischoff had a winning formula going in WCW in the first half of 1994 and that signing the old WWF stars basically ended up costing them the younger guys that people actually saw as "WCW guys." TNA is making the same mistake on a smaller level right now, with washed up WWE guys that weren't even as popular as the Hogan and Savage types.

[LivingLegendGaryColeman 0]

Actually, can someone help me out with Rise and Fall. When they're talking about the curcifiction of The Sandman angle, the DVD says that Kurt walked out of ECW due to it, but in Raven's shoot interview he says that he's asked Kurt about it and Kurt's never had a problem with it and it was in fact Taz that complained. Can anyone shed any light?

 

I seem to remember Angle saying he had a problem with it for a while now. I'm pretty sure he even talked about it being a reason he was hesitant to become a pro wrestler in his book way back when. Who knows if it is a reality or not, but I've heard for years that incident stalled him from appearing earlier in time. I believe Taz was offended also, but in the past Kurt has admitted to having a problem with it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

From various shoots and the two ECW documentary DVD's, Angle was pissed at the crucifixion angle because he found it offensive and Shane Douglas was angry because he'd been the guy who brought Angle in and still wanted Angle do work with ECW. According to Raven, Taz was upset as well and there was also the comment that it could be seen as anti-Christian because Raven, Todd Gordon and Heyman were all Jewish and it was asked why they didn't put Sandman on a Star of David; Raven joked that they would have, but Sandman would have rolled away.

[luke-o 0]

Raven joked that they would have, but Sandman would have rolled away.

 

God I love Raven.

[JMFabiano524 0]

Here's an idea: all we have to do is share our old tapes with younger fans. They'll get the idea seeing the footage in its "pure" form and our memories. (which WWE actually does more often than you say...they show WCW/NWA shows on 24/7 basically untouched, after all...well...as untouched as you can with music clearance changes and "necessary" edits)

[Guest Mos_Def]

We always hear about how WCW mistreated mid-card talent, but what you don't hear is how guys like Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, etc. would have never been known at a national level if it wasn't for WCW.

 

At this point, in terms of politics, I doubt there is much of a difference between current-day WWE and WCW in 1998.

 

How can you say that when four of the five guys named became world champions in the WWE? None of those guys came close in WCW and Benoit, Guerrero, and Mysterio were there for damn near five years.

 

In any event I dont think WCW is portrayed as anything it was not...A company that was superior in its showcase of international athletes and wrestlers of a small nature, but was hamstrung by creative decisions that turned the company into a laughingstock and in addition a legendary toxic political and backstage element.

 

Also dont forget that Bischoff was more than antagonistic towards the WWF. Its not Mcmahon hyperbole to say that Bischoff was definitely hell bent on using Turner's war chest to turn WWE headquarters into a parking lot. Definitely trying to drive them out of business. All is fair in love and war, but sometimes you reap what you sow.

 

In other words I think there are better things than the legacy of WCW that are worth you time and concern.

[fisticuffs 0]

None of those guys came close in WCW and Benoit, Guerrero, and Mysterio were there for damn near five years.

 

Benoit left WCW as World Champion and didn't get another sniff for over 5 years in WWF/E and Rey only got the belt off the coattails of Eddy's death. And Vince isn't putting the strap on any of them if he has options like Hogan, Nash, Sting, Flair, Goldberg, etc. on the roster.

[Guest Mos_Def]

None of those guys came close in WCW and Benoit, Guerrero, and Mysterio were there for damn near five years.

 

Benoit left WCW as World Champion and didn't get another sniff for over 5 years in WWF/E and Rey only got the belt off the coattails of Eddy's death. And Vince isn't putting the strap on any of them if he has options like Hogan, Nash, Sting, Flair, Goldberg, etc. on the roster.

 

Oh shit, I forgot about Benoit winning the strap, but that's neither here nor there, because anybody that followed his WCW run knows that wasnt emblematic of his run there. Benoit was routinely shat upon.

 

You can make all the excuses you want, but when WCW stopped drawing, they still didnt turn to their younger guys...They kept them quarantined and even mocked them. Its not even a debate. Vanilla Midgets!

[cabbageboy 0]

Truth be told, I don't blame WCW for not pushing Eddie that hard. In late 1998 he had a near fatal car wreck when he was wasted and rushed to come back in 1999. If you're WCW do you really push him that hard?

 

As far as Rey goes, I personally don't think a guy that's as ridiculously small as him should ever hold a world title in the heavyweight division. There are some things that are just not believable. And truth be told, Rey wasn't really much more talented than any number of other luchadores on WCW's roster.

 

 

[JJMc 0]

That was the initial plan. The WWF always planned on continuing WCW as its own separate wrestling entity. However, TNN refused to give them any more time on their networks for the WCW product. Furthermore, they wouldn't let them take the show to another competing network or rebrand any of their existing programming to WCW. They were stuck as for as promoting WCW as its own brand.

 

Hence we got WWF Excess, a TWO HOUR recap show, which was supposed to be the new WCW show. There was even a poll on WWF.com for what the show should be called. The choices were WCW Nitro, WCW Saturday Night, a couple of names which escape me, and there was also something like "WCW Hot Box" I believe.

[TheFranchise 0]

What was the problem then?

 

I can understand them not having more time, but if they had the time for Excess..?

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

It really is a shame that WCW gets so badly buried, when it was what rekindled my interest in wrestling. In '96 I still watched WWF, but only sparingly. I happened on Nitro one night and saw Hulk, someone who just a few years earlier had killed much of my interest, as an awesome heel. He was dropping legs on Savage, spray painting him while Elizabeth cried and fans threw trash in the ring. It was surreal, and it was a raw emotional moment.

 

Then I tuned in every week and was blown away by people like Ultimo Drago, Jushin Liger, Dean Malenko, etc. The NWO storyline was why I started watching, but the amazing undercard kept me glued to the TV for the entire show.

 

Even after Starrcade '97 when things started going down hill, I kept watching 'til the company's death just because I knew the company had the potential to turn things around. And what's crazy is they tried so many times to turn things around.

 

There was:

- Nash in charge summer of '99, which IMO is in the running for worst post-NWO era.

 

- The first Russo run in the fall and early winter. This one was weird because I could tell they were trying to copy WWF attitude, and while everyone shits on this stretch some good guys were getting pushes. Scott Hall was finally starting to get booked like World Champion material, Bret Hart became champion, Revolution and the Animals were in the spotlight including a very strong Benoit push. Granted all the angles that gave these guys there pushes were ludicrous, and any foreign or cruiser wrestler got buried, so I wouldn't call this a "good" era by any means. It was at least better than Nash's.

 

- Kevin Sullivan from Jan. 2000 to the reset, which rivals Nash's run for worst era in the final years. The return of Hulkamania was enough to make me wretch, the Scott Hall/Nash/Sid/Jarrett stuff made zero sense, Tank Abbott was fighting people for jackets and Booker T. was fueding over an f'ing letter. Kidman and Vampiro started getting pushed, which was good, but that was surrounded by shit.

 

- Russo from April to fall 2000 was maddening. The New Blood could have and should have saved WCW, but of course the old fuckers refusing to play ball killed it. Of course, it didn't help that Russo booked David Arquette in the main event and nightly title changes and swerves.

The New Blood angle still frustrates me when I think about it. Had it been the older guys as heels, a faction of face young guys led by Russo (which could have worked -- he came across as a face at Bash at the Beach when lining up Booker T. for the main event and that shoot should have been his whole character), and a renegade heel faction of young guys who want to run the company it would have been outstanding. And of course, eliminating the ridiculous shit like "Viagra on a Pole" and "Mike Awesome: fat chick thriller" was a must.

 

- Fall 2000 to the end...how depressing to think about this era. Things finally started to come together but it was too late. The cruiserweight division was treated like it should be: an athletic showcase, even expanded with the tag belts. The Magnificient Seven taking over made for a great main event story. When I read about the sale on the Net I really hoped Bischoff could work something out to keep this WCW going.

 

Man, writing this post bummed me out, haha.

[cabbageboy 0]

The Magnificent Seven was a good angle? They sucked. It was a haphazard array of various guys with zilch in common. Why would Flair have Animal in his faction and so on? That said WCW did show signs of decency near the end.

 

I suppose the Sullivan era of early 2000 was worst, yet by then I don't think anyone cared enough to really be angry. I'd say the Nash era of mid 1999 was more frustrating and horrid to watch.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

True, it wasn't the best collection of workers by any stretch, but I did like the proposed plan of Goldberg systematically running through the group before getting to Steiner. Those two always worked well together. It's strange, I was a workrate fan from about '97 on but for some reason marked out like crazy for Goldberg.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, Goldberg going through a bunch of guys was a decent idea, but he lost the career match in Jan. 2001 so they really didn't do much with it. Call me crazy but I've always thought there was the seed of a decent idea in that Goldberg angle where he had to repeat the streak. It keeps him away from the title for a long time, it would have built suspense as he got nearer the mark and various heels try to cost him a match, and it would have set up a mega showdown with Steiner.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I didn't think the Magnificent Seven was a bad idea. Animal kind of worked as a strongman enforcer type, but he was basically just brought in as a surprise anyway. I think the big problem by that point was that they didn't have a strong face to feud with by that point, other than maybe Goldberg.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Does anyone have a good picture of the WCW Cruiserweight Tag Titles? I remember them looking really nice. I'll agree with the rest of you. WCW from January-March 2001 was starting to turn into some really good tv.

[Steviekick 0]

WCW will be mostly forgotten, but I think in ten years the next generation of net fans trying to be hipsters/elitists will speak fondly of WCW, kind of the way Mid-South/UWF is regarded today.

[dubq 0]

It would nice if they did a feature on the Rise of the Cruiserweights of WCW maybe even start with the Lightweight Championship that Brian Pillman, Lyger, Johnny Flamingo feuded over then progress to the Cruiserweights with the tournament then Malenko vs Rey, Ultimo Dragon as the man with all of the belts, Jericho working the rudo magic, all the way to the final days with the Cruiserweight Tag Team belts. And lets forget Juvi vs Lyger in the bottle incident.

 

Scotty Flamingo

[The Buzz 0]

You know what even when WCW was on top, the only two names most people knew were WWF and nWo. WCW just never seemed to stick with people.

[JJMc 0]

What was the problem then?

 

I can understand them not having more time, but if they had the time for Excess..?

 

What they wanted to do was scrap Livewire and Superstars and re-tool them into a two-hour Saturday night show, which they did. But as someone said, TNN didn't allow them to re-brand the programming as WCW material. Personally, if that were the case, I would have left everything alone, because a two hour recap show is just business. I remember I used to watch Excess. Would it have killed them to show a dark match from Raw or something? From the Vault was ok, but a) the matches were clipped and b) they were usually matches everyone had already seen a thousand times.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Russo and Nash's booking reigns were different kinds of bullshit, almost as bad as each other, but Russo's did the most damage. Nash's booking centered around keeping him and the usual group of old guys around the top mix and virtually neglecting everyone else. Russo's booking, and I use that term loosely, was worse because it tried to turn WCW into a copy of the WWF and it started causing even the die-hard, long time WCW fans to turn off, and it really says something that even the hardest of the hardcore WCW fans were turned off, because they had suffered through some really bad TV up to that point. I can understand some people liking Russo's first run more than Nash's run, but no question that Russo's did the more significant damage, because even Nash wasn't running off the die-hards.

 

Sullivan's regime wasn't as bad as much as it was boring. There was virtually nothing exciting about his entire three-month run.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Russo's was worse from the standpoint of putting the final nail in the coffin, that's true and killing any hope. The coffin was already built, the ditch dug and the headstone carved by the time he put that final nail in, though. Me personally, I found Nash's stretch much much more difficult to watch. Like I said, I preferred Russo's for the simple reason new guys were getting a shot, even if it was under ridiculous circumstances.

 

I also think something that made Russo's run more damaging was WWF was getting really good during his two runs, especially the second. That second Russo run, WCW was up against the Jericho-Benoit series, Kurt Angle's rise, Rock-HHH, Undertaker's return -- that was arguably the all-around best period of WWF's popularity.

 

I guess I also dislike that Nash tenure more because it was done solely to make himself the top guy. Every angle in that period (except for the tag team stuff with the Jersey Boys, Benoit/Malenko and Raven/Saturn which was great) was awful.

The Nash laundry list was just embarassing:

- Nash as Austin-like rebel champ when the whole world knew he was booking

- A near-crippled Macho Man as the top heel

- A Sting heel turn no one wanted to see

- ARLISS~!

- Nash dumping feces on people

- No Limit Soldiers

- "Hardcore" wrestling that the announcers shit on, culminating in a tournament that injured half the roster

- Bagwell in boxing matches against Piper, Cat in kickboxing. Why draw attention to the fact your fighting isn't real? Dumb

 

And in the summer of '99, WWF booking wasn't that great. I think this period really got the ball rolling against WCW.

 

Anyway, I realize it's a matter of preference, just giving you my thoughts on it.

[Boxer 0]

All these recollections of WCW has got me itching for a Rise and Fall of the WCW DVD.

 

Damnit WWE, give me the DVD.

 

At least give us one pure WCW DVD.

[cd213 0]

One of the reasons that WCW was entertaining at the end was because they knew it was all or nothing. They had to go balls out since the sale was very close. It got very entertaining with a lot of the younger guys finally getting a shot.

 

On a side note, does anyone know what happened to Mike Sanders? He was great on the mic and getting better in the ring at that time.

[Diamonddust 0]

One of the reasons that WCW was entertaining at the end was because they knew it was all or nothing. They had to go balls out since the sale was very close. It got very entertaining with a lot of the younger guys finally getting a shot.

 

On a side note, does anyone know what happened to Mike Sanders? He was great on the mic and getting better in the ring at that time.

 

Ticked off the wrong people, and now he's a stand-up comedian. I recall reading where he didn't go up and introduce himself to Triple H or something like that (It was when Triple H was injured), so he was subsequently buried. He was apparently being groomed for some good things.

[haws bah gawd 0]

One of the reasons that WCW was entertaining at the end was because they knew it was all or nothing. They had to go balls out since the sale was very close. It got very entertaining with a lot of the younger guys finally getting a shot.

 

On a side note, does anyone know what happened to Mike Sanders? He was great on the mic and getting better in the ring at that time.

 

Ticked off the wrong people, and now he's a stand-up comedian. I recall reading where he didn't go up and introduce himself to Triple H or something like that (It was when Triple H was injured), so he was subsequently buried. He was apparently being groomed for some good things.

 

Reminds me of a similar situation with Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire. They didn't introduce themselves to the Undertaker, and any hope of a push was immediately killed-off. I believe once of them was later quoted as saying something about being in awe of the Undertaker, and they didn't feel they were deserving of his attention, and didn't want to bug him. So, Old Man Calloway took it as rudeness on their part.

[Diamonddust 0]

One of the reasons that WCW was entertaining at the end was because they knew it was all or nothing. They had to go balls out since the sale was very close. It got very entertaining with a lot of the younger guys finally getting a shot.

 

On a side note, does anyone know what happened to Mike Sanders? He was great on the mic and getting better in the ring at that time.

 

Ticked off the wrong people, and now he's a stand-up comedian. I recall reading where he didn't go up and introduce himself to Triple H or something like that (It was when Triple H was injured), so he was subsequently buried. He was apparently being groomed for some good things.

 

Reminds me of a similar situation with Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire. They didn't introduce themselves to the Undertaker, and any hope of a push was immediately killed-off. I believe once of them was later quoted as saying something about being in awe of the Undertaker, and they didn't feel they were deserving of his attention, and didn't want to bug him. So, Old Man Calloway took it as rudeness on their part.

 

Interesting you brought that up...

 

I live in Birmingham, and in July of 2001... Smackdown was taped in Birmingham. It was the first show after ECW joined in on the Invasion angle, which happened in Atlanta. Anyways, the whole roster was at both shows. Well, my friend had to go to the airport the day after the Smackdown taping. He told me he saw this huge guy waiting for a plane, and he immediately recognized him as the Undertaker. He then said he saw Palumbo go up and talk to him, and if I remember correctly, Palumbo basically told Taker that he didn't have a chance to say hello the night before for what ever reason.

[The Buzz 0]

Well even though the Palumbo biker gimmick probably won't work, he'll have the chance to say hello to taker once every two months at smackdown tapings, and every month taker works a pay-per-view.