NoCalMike Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 I am not even sure how the guy was "making a scene" until the cops stepped in, in the first place. The guy "running to the front of the line and pushing people out of his way" has been posted over and over, but is there some credible sources for that? Then on top of that, all the guy was doing at this point was making Kerry feel uncomfortable with his line of questioning, again, how is that against the law, illegal or even grounds for being removed in the first place, considering it was a town hall forum. If they event was "over" before he started blathering, then why didn't they cut the mic before asking the question, or before he was finished. It seemed apparent that once he was up there at the mic, nobody was attempting to stop him from asking the question and were obviously letting him talk, it wasn't until after the line of questioning wasn't to certain people's liking, that all the drama started. Fuck, I am not even defending the smarmy kid really, just feel like the cops overreacted a bit much. Why I am even bothering with this anymore, when a shitload of more important stories have hit since then....well I dunno.
Jingus Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 The guy "running to the front of the line and pushing people out of his way" has been posted over and over, but is there some credible sources for that? Every firsthand report I've read of the incident said that. I haven't seen any that contradict it. You're welcome to try and find some. If they event was "over" before he started blathering, then why didn't they cut the mic before asking the question, or before he was finished. It seemed apparent that once he was up there at the mic, nobody was attempting to stop him from asking the question and were obviously letting him talk, it wasn't until after the line of questioning wasn't to certain people's liking, that all the drama started. No, go back and read what happened before the cameras turned on. The event had been cut short, and it was time for the last question in the Q&A segment. This douche interrupted the person asking that last question, butting to the head of the line to make sure he had his say. The cops started to take him out right then, but Kerry called them off. The guy asked the question, and Kerry answered it. Then he refused to stand down, and asked another bullshit question, at which point they cut his mike. Then he started yelling, which is when the cops came in and grabbed him for real this time, and the rest of the stuff snowballed from there. The easiest way to tell he was being a public nuisance: the big round of applause the cops got from the audience when they started hauling him out.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 "Discretion" as in assessing a threat and dealing with it according to the degree in which the situation calls for. In THIS case they did not use enough discretion and made the wrong choices. This is not some drunk that got pulled over and came out with a weapon. These cops were never in any danger and they KNEW it. This was ONE guy and eventually six cops but no less than five at any point. If they could not get control of THAT situation without using a weapon then they shouldn't be cops. Fuck them. Are you kidding? The kid was still struggling. The longer the situation goes on, the more likely something will happen. He was warned a half a dozen times. The police don't know he's harmless; you can say "Oh, he's harmless!" all you want, but the longer he struggles, the more he becomes a danger to the police and to the people around him. It's bad enough that he was still resisting, even when 5 guys were on him; if he's resisting then, how do you know he's not going to do something to get out of there? You don't. They tased him, and he deserved it. Completely. And I never said that this was a police state. I said that acts like that were police state bullshit. And I was making fun of you because this isn't police state bullshit. If this were, he would have been tasered before he had a chance to speak. That's why you're so fucking laughable. Also, trying to wistfully remember days that didn't happen also will get you made fun of. Once again I am talking about THIS situation. If somebody were to run onto a field you handle that differently than you might handle something like this. You know you can be arrested for being drunk in public even if all you were doing otherwise was walking down the street. You don't arrest that fucking guy. You just make sure he gets home in one piece. If he's being incredibly disruptive, has already caused problems, has yet to listen or obey the police, and is not showing any signs of letting up, then yes, you do arrest him. This isn't just a drunk guy walking around. This is a drunk guy walking into a restaurant and screaming at someone, and then not listening to the cops when he's asked to leave. Doing that gets you arrested and a night in the drunk tank. The kid was doing nearly the same thing, and they handled it exactly like that. If you're going to make a comparison, make it accurate. This isn't just a guy stumbling home, this is a guy making a major scene, and someone that didn't wantto stop. He wasn't calm or benign or anything even close to that. That is discretion and just good plain common sense. So you drag the guy out of the auditorium, put him down in the lobby calm him down (maybe with a "Calm down and leave so we don't have to lock you up" and send his ass home. Most likely he'll be grateful to escape). Did you watch the "after-party"? He was still screaming. The fact that he was screaming the entire time they tried to lead him out makes your point completely illogical: If they tried dragging him out twice already, what makes you think he's suddenly going to calm down the third time and leave? The fact is that the only time he asked to leave was after 5 cops had to restrain him. At that point, you've already done enough stuff that you aren't just "getting off". He intended to make a scene, and he didn't realize that pushing cops, not leaving when asked, and resisting them relentlessly would, well, get him arrested. So Tsukuyomi can act like my opinions are akin to me fucking his dog at the thanksgiving dinner table in front of grandma and the kids... Not a problem, as long as you still keep giving me reasons. but had the cops MANAGED the situation like I describe then this NEVER would have been in the media and this conversation would not be happening. That's a contradiction: The cops already tried to do what you said, you moron. It didn't work And there would have been nothing wrong with that. Except that it didn't work the first two times... Shit, you'd think these dumbasses would have taken a "Command Presence" course at some point. Yeah, because that would work against someone who was claiming that the cops were going to murder him in his cell, right? I'm sure someone who was resisting arrest with 5 people on him would have just given up if they had just postured themselves a bit more. But instead they didn't get control right away so they panicked and used the tazer. Weak. All day everyday. They didn't get control because the guy was acting like a fucking douchebag. What part of "He escalated everything!" do you not understand? You seem to think that just giving the guy a smile and some posturing would have stopped him, when he was screaming, yelling, and acting like a fucking child? I also love how you say they "panicked and used the taser." Because they didn't warn him 5 times, right? And he didn't listen 5 times, right? Wow, those are pretty thorough "panicking" cops, eh?
CheesalaIsGood Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Read: I didn't even look over your post, so I'll just try to back out of this entire thing. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy. Thanks letting me off, Officer! I promise I won't do it again!
CheesalaIsGood Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Read: I didn't even look over your post, so I'll just try to back out of this entire thing. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy. Thanks letting me off, Officer! I promise I won't do it again! No dipshit, it means nothing you say matters if the cops fucked up losing control in the first place.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Read: I didn't even look over your post, so I'll just try to back out of this entire thing. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy. Thanks letting me off, Officer! I promise I won't do it again! No dipshit, it means nothing you say matters if the cops fucked up losing control in the first place. The cops didn't fuck up losing control. The kid was obviously not going to be be controlled. Nothing in that video suggests "Command Presence" would have worked in the slightest. After he was taken the guy accusing the cops of being out to murder him in his cell. And they are supposed to take this guy down by posturing themselves? Explain to me how an officer could have 'taken control' of the situation from that sort of person, given the actions we've already seen from him. If you can't, then shut up.
CheesalaIsGood Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Read: I didn't even look over your post, so I'll just try to back out of this entire thing. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy. Thanks letting me off, Officer! I promise I won't do it again! No dipshit, it means nothing you say matters if the cops fucked up losing control in the first place. The cops didn't fuck up losing control. The kid was obviously not going to be be controlled. Nothing in that video suggests "Command Presence" would have worked in the slightest. After he was taken the guy accusing the cops of being out to murder him in his cell. And they are supposed to take this guy down by posturing themselves? Explain to me how an officer could have 'taken control' of the situation from that sort of person, given the actions we've already seen from him. If you can't, then shut up. Try reading the thread again. I'm not going to repeat myself again. While that may be comfortable with you, I've already said what needed to be done. You just are incapable of comprehension.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Wow, you didn't contradict a single thing I wrote. Not one. You just keep spewing the same shit over and over in your attempt "to make fun of me". Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about son. I got TWO cops in my family and they both said those morons lost control of the situation. Read: I didn't even look over your post, so I'll just try to back out of this entire thing. Oh well I'll leave you to your idiocy. Thanks letting me off, Officer! I promise I won't do it again! No dipshit, it means nothing you say matters if the cops fucked up losing control in the first place. The cops didn't fuck up losing control. The kid was obviously not going to be be controlled. Nothing in that video suggests "Command Presence" would have worked in the slightest. After he was taken the guy accusing the cops of being out to murder him in his cell. And they are supposed to take this guy down by posturing themselves? Explain to me how an officer could have 'taken control' of the situation from that sort of person, given the actions we've already seen from him. If you can't, then shut up. Try reading the thread again. Which part should I focus on? Where you claim that they should have just let him go after he was on the ground being arrested, or where they should have used "Command Presence" to somehow subdue someone who thought the cops were out to murder him? Maybe I should look at where you wax nostalgic about how cops used to just "watch over us" instead of "watching us", and how you're tired of this damn "police state bullshit"? Please, help me out here. I'm not sure where I should start sifting through the bullshit.
Dobbs 3K Posted October 3, 2007 Report Posted October 3, 2007 Yeah, back in the good old days, say the 1950s, another citizen would have stood up and either punched him or wrestled him to the ground, rather than wait for the cops. People used to not tolerate idiots acting like complete douchebags in front of an elected official.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 Yeah, back in the good old days, say the 1950s, another citizen would have stood up and either punched him or wrestled him to the ground, rather than wait for the cops. People used to not tolerate idiots acting like complete douchebags in front of an elected official. Look, you aren't comprehending what he said. Read all his posts about a dozen times and see if the logic sinks in.
Guest Gym Class Fallout Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 In Soviet Russia, senator questions you!
CheesalaIsGood Posted October 4, 2007 Report Posted October 4, 2007 Yeah, back in the good old days, say the 1950s, another citizen would have stood up and either punched him or wrestled him to the ground, rather than wait for the cops. People used to not tolerate idiots acting like complete douchebags in front of an elected official. Look, you aren't comprehending what he said. Read all his posts about a dozen times and see if the logic sinks in. Yeah, actually. That is pretty much it.
CheesalaIsGood Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Absolutely safe. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home Man dies at Vancouver Airport ROBERT MATAS Globe and Mail Update October 14, 2007 at 12:51 PM EDT RICHMOND, B.C. — A middle aged man died at Vancouver airport today after an encounter with police involving a taser gun. RCMP do not know what precipitated the incident, Sergeant Pierre Lemaitrre said in an interview. Nancy Baggio, operations manager for the airport, said the incident did not disrupt any flights. Some travellers were redirected to another area but operations continued uninterrupted, she said. A man in his 40s was behaving wildly around 1:30 a. m. in the arrivals area. The RCMP were called to assist the private security company, Sgt. Lemaitre said. An RCMP officer used a taser in an attempt to subdue the man. However the man continued to strike out, Sgt Lemaitre said. Three officers finally restrained him. The man passed away shortly afterwards. Police had the man's passport, but Sgt. Lemaitre declined to release his name. The local coroner removed the body from the airport about 9 a.m. The police investigation continues. He must have cut to the front of the line and asked questions. Criminal bastard. And NO I am NOT saying that force isn't needed... at all... ever. I am illustrating a point that was made to me in an absolute that is false. Ta Da!
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Absolutely safe. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home Man dies at Vancouver Airport ROBERT MATAS Globe and Mail Update October 14, 2007 at 12:51 PM EDT RICHMOND, B.C. — A middle aged man died at Vancouver airport today after an encounter with police involving a taser gun. RCMP do not know what precipitated the incident, Sergeant Pierre Lemaitrre said in an interview. Nancy Baggio, operations manager for the airport, said the incident did not disrupt any flights. Some travellers were redirected to another area but operations continued uninterrupted, she said. A man in his 40s was behaving wildly around 1:30 a. m. in the arrivals area. The RCMP were called to assist the private security company, Sgt. Lemaitre said. An RCMP officer used a taser in an attempt to subdue the man. However the man continued to strike out, Sgt Lemaitre said. Three officers finally restrained him. The man passed away shortly afterwards. Police had the man's passport, but Sgt. Lemaitre declined to release his name. The local coroner removed the body from the airport about 9 a.m. The police investigation continues. He must have cut to the front of the line and asked questions. Criminal bastard. And NO I am NOT saying that force isn't needed... at all... ever. I am illustrating a point that was made to me in an absolute that is false. Ta Da! Fact of the matter is, tasering is a relatively harmless way of taking people down for both the person being tasered and the cop doing the tasering. But I digress. I did say absolutely once, so if you want to seize on that one word for dear life, go ahead. You proved my point better than I could when you yourself showed that three to four times are killed by lightning strikes every year in comparison.
Guest Gym Class Fallout Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Nobody cares what you think because you like anime.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Nobody cares what you think because you like anime. I don't care what you think. You're a Blackhawk fan.
LaParkaMarka Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 And NO I am NOT saying that force isn't needed... at all... ever. I am illustrating a point that was made to me in an absolute that is false. Ta Da! I've been pretty interested in this story, since it happened in town. The guy was tasered twice and was still freaking out and acting aggressive. I imagine that if someone was tasered to death, he would have stopped responding instead of continuing to fight. Richmond RCMP Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre said witnesses reported seeing the man, whose identity has not been released, sweating profusely and showing the whites of his eyes when he began violently tossing chairs and luggage inside the airport early Sunday. Officers physically restrained the man and applied handcuffs, said Lemaitre. "He was on his back and being combative and still fighting. Even though he had received what they call pulses, two pulses from Taser, he was still out of control," Lemaitre told CBC Newsworld on Monday morning. The cops think he may have suffered from something called "excited delirium". Signs of agitated or excited delirium, also known as in-custody death syndrome, include acute agitation, violence, profuse sweating and insensitivity to pain. The condition causes the heart to race, either because of a mental illness or drug use, before it eventually stops beating. This guy's death doesn't seem like it was directly caused by the taser.
Dobbs 3K Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Nice to get an opinion from Dr. Cheesala on this matter.
Guest Gym Class Fallout Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 He didn't make any outlandish claims. He just noted another death via electrocution.
Guest Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 But it wasn't via electrocution. It was via insanity, craziness, nuthouse syndrome or drug use.
Guest Tsukuyomi Posted October 16, 2007 Report Posted October 16, 2007 Huh. Good to know the whole story. I didn't think of looking it on CBC.ca before.
Dobbs 3K Posted October 16, 2007 Report Posted October 16, 2007 Regardless of whether or not a taser caused this man's death (and from the article Tsukuyomi linked to, it doesn't sound like it), I can't believe so many of you are eager to praise the worthless cunt who got tasered to begin with. He was acting like a juvenile idiot in a public forum and got what he deserved, no, what he was asking for, as he intentionally brought the police action upon himself. Most police forces in the world would have given him much worse. We need to punish stupidity, not enable it in this country.
snuffbox Posted October 16, 2007 Report Posted October 16, 2007 I think you're being a worthless cunt far more often than not, Invader. Does that give me (or the nearest police officer at the time) the right to tase you? Or is this just a matter of you, as usual, just not comprehending what the people not cheerleading this are saying?
Dobbs 3K Posted October 16, 2007 Report Posted October 16, 2007 I can't comprehend why someone who resists arrest after causing a public disturbance shouldn't be tasered. Again you liberals with the name calling.
Dobbs 3K Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Alrighty there, Rush. Yes, because as you've obviously seen in my posts in the Iraq War thread, I'm a big time elephant riding GOP flag waver like Limbaugh.
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