Worst President Ever?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Meanwhile, Bush reached an unwelcome record. By 64%-31%, Americans disapprove of the job he is doing. For the first time in the history of the Gallup Poll, 50% say they "strongly disapprove" of the president. Richard Nixon had reached the previous high, 48%, just before an impeachment inquiry was launched in 1974.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/...npoll06.art.htm

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

I don't usually post in the CE forum (I was scared dammit!), but this really comes in as no surprise to me. Its truly amazing that Bush went from the dizzying heights of his popularity post 9/11 to supposed worst president ever in a mere six years. In terms of recent history of the past 50 or 60 years, I wouldnt rank Bush as the worst president (that honor still belongs to Nixon, but Nixon is an interesting and complicated character in American political history), but to me Bush is the epitome of ineffective. Ignoring the war for a bit, Bush is stubborn on issues such as stem cell research, gay marriage and healh care. Bush also succeded running up record debts and presided over an economy that has seen the once mighty US dollar lose value to the Euro and Canadian dollar. He sucessfully divided half of the country even though he was billed as the a great Uniter. Also Bush hurt/has done extensive damage to the credibitilty of the GOP to the point where the canidates for 2008 distance themselves from him. In terms of worst president in history, Bush isnt the worst but I'd put in at the top of the bottom half.

 

Since we are talking about worst presidents ever here is my list: (My personal list, mind you)

 

1. Grant

2. Harding

3. Nixon

4. Wilson- Terrible racist and well as violator of civil rights during WWI

5. James Buchannon

6. Andrew Johnson- another racist

7. Carter- just ineffective at a time where America was still hurting post- Nixon

8. Herbert Hoover- I don't think he was that bad at all but handling Great Depression reserved his spot.

9. Thomas Jefferson- At first I thought he was one of the best but further reading sees that Jefferson was stubborn, hated the Marshall Court, had an ill fated attempt at ousting incompentent judges and poorly handled the Burr treson case.

10. George W. Bush-

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I admire Woodrow Wilson's unwavering idealism, if nothing else. Carter was an idiot, yeah, but how can you indict Wilson as a racist and not Jimmy Carter?

 

I still see Nixon as a vaguely sympathetic figure; I don't care how much Hunter S. Thompson hated him.

 

I always found it tiresome when people called George W. Bush the worst president ever, but I think this might hold up.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

Well as far I know (wasn't alive during the 1970s, so this just comes as knowledge from Books and older people) Carter wasn't an outed anti-semite during his time in office. If he was than you are correct.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Any quotes showing that

 

I don`t doubt you, just curious.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

Well Wilson did screen and enjoy racist epic Birth of a Nation. Wilson was noted as having some interesting comments on Social Darwinsin, eugenics and civil rights. I don't have the time to really search for some quotes but if you are really interested I would be happy to pull some quotes for you.

 

EDIT: Wikipedia has an interesting section on Wilson and race if you want to start your search there.

[Ripper 0]

He did more than screen Birth of a Nation. History of the American People (which he wrote) was part of the basis of the screenplay.

 

Plus, he resegregated the federal government.

 

I think he was just mad because his mom gave him a black name.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I was referring to Carter and his anti-semitism. I only see that from the MikeSC`s of the world, so I was wondering if that was just another lame Anti-democrat accusation or something that was very real.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

W/r/t eugenics, you have to remember that at the time, it was very much in vogue among academics. Naturally, after World War II, advocating eugenics is virtually unthinkable, but back then, sure, it seemed like the theory had legs. Moreover, condemning anyone for civil rights-related indiscretions prior to the second half of the 20th century is a relatively fruitless endeavor. It doesn't make their views correct, by any means, but you'd have nobody left to look up to but the Quakers.

 

Shameful wrestling aside: I always found it amusing that they named the retarded gimmick "Eugene," Greek for "well-born." Wonder how many fans picked up on that.

[Ripper 0]

I don't think its unfair with Wilson because others around him had already started grasping change and he went about his way to undo it. He effectively got to Washington and looked around and said "You know...this part of the country could use some Jim Crow laws." You can definately blame him for that.

 

I don't think you can blame older presidents for owning slaves and such, because they were rich southerners. Thats just what went on.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

I was referring to Carter and his anti-semitism. I only see that from the MikeSC`s of the world, so I was wondering if that was just another lame Anti-democrat accusation or something that was very real.

 

Well Im defintely not an anti-democrat nor do I buy in MikeSCs view of the world. I had no idea that Carter was an (possible) anti-semite until MikeSC gleefully pointed it out to all of us. I don't really know either way so maybe Czech can enlighten us.

[BorneAgain 0]

I really try to resist the urge of falling into the college age leftist trap of calling Bush the worst president ever, not that he's making that easy.

 

In terms of possible negative long term effects, he's gotta be up there.

[snuffbox 0]

Nixon is only sympathetic in a what-went-wrong kind of way. Fawn Brodie wrote a really good psychological bio of Nixon that, though well-researched, well-written, and extensive, still doesn't answer the deepest questions of why Nixon was so incredibly fucked up.

 

The guy had some serious issues. He was extremely paranoid and physically very clumsy (to the point where he could not handle pill bottles or anything else with a modicum of hand-eye coordination). He had a drinking problem that was exacerbated by him being an alcohol lightweight.

 

Nixon's psyche deserves another book.

 

Harding & Grant were both terribly ineffective but the problems in their Administrations were almost entirely due to various Cabinet members. They weren't so much "bad" as they were ill-equipped for the job.

 

LBJ, Nixon, Buchanon, Hoover, and Bush were bad Presidents. They are the five worst. Of the 5, only Johnson had a really high-mark moment with his Civil Rights legislation that he pushed through with the help of Kennedy's ghost. Bush could have had numerous great moments but failed each...Katrina ignored/forgotten, Afghanistan neglected for Iraq, fall of Baghdad eclipsed by the failed follow-up. Hoover and Buchanon couldn't handle, and only fueled the fires, of slavery/secession and the depression. Nixon is the worst by default for his resignation more than anything else.

 

1. Richard Nixon

2. Herbert Hoover

3. James Buchanon

4. George W. Bush

5. Lyndon Johnson

 

Grant and Harding, the easy choices, shouldn't even be in the top 5 for worst Presidents.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I wonder how many of Nixon's problems were precipitated by having the presidency stolen from him by the Democrats and not even having the support of your boss after eight years of service. Guy was flying high up till then. Sure, he was a dirty bastard of a politician, but he really did get the shit kicked out of him in life. Are you paranoid when everybody is out to get you?

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

Nixon is only sympathetic in a what-went-wrong kind of way. Fawn Brodie wrote a really good psychological bio of Nixon that, though well-researched, well-written, and extensive, still doesn't answer the deepest questions of why Nixon was so incredibly fucked up.

 

The guy had some serious issues. He was extremely paranoid and physically very clumsy (to the point where he could not handle pill bottles or anything else with a modicum of hand-eye coordination). He had a drinking problem that was exacerbated by him being an alcohol lightweight.

 

Nixon's psyche deserves another book.

 

Harding & Grant were both terribly ineffective but the problems in their Administrations were almost entirely de to various Cabinet members. They weren't so much "bad" as they were ill-equipped for the job.

 

LBJ, Nixon, Buchanon, Hoover, and Bush were bad Presidents. They are the five worst. Of the 5, only Johnson had a really high-mark moment with his Civil Rights legislation that he pushed through with the help of Kennedy's ghost. Bush could have had numerous great moments but failed each...Katrina ignored/forgotten, Afghanistan neglected for Iraq, fall of Baghdad eclipses by the failed follow-up. Hoover and Buchanon couldn't handle, and only fueled the fires, of slavery/secession and the depression. Nixon is the worst by default for his resignation more than anything else.

 

1. Richard Nixon

2. Herbert Hoover

3. James Buchanon

4. George W. Bush

5. Lyndon Johnson

 

Grant and Harding, the easy choices, shouldn't even be in the top 5 for worst Presidents.

 

replace George Bush with Andrew Johnson and your list is spot on. Johnson serverly crippled Southern Recontruction and engaged in the worst kind of political favortism. His impeachment and remaining presidency severly limited the office of the president until the 20th century. In a way, Johnson's policies and time in office set the tone for Southern poltics and policy until the 1960s.

[snuffbox 0]

I wonder how many of Nixon's problems were precipitated by having the presidency stolen from him by the Democrats and not even having the support of your boss after eight years of service. Guy was flying high up till then. Sure, he was a dirty bastard of a politician, but he really did get the shit kicked out of him in life. Are you paranoid when everybody is out to get you?

 

Funny as South Park is, Al Gore hasn't in fact had numerous public meltdowns since a Presidential election was stolen from him. That, no matter how much you want to blame the Kennedy Machine or Daley, is not even close to an answer.

 

Nor is Eisenhower's treatment of him a possibility. Before Kennedy, none of the Presidents gave much, if any, attention to their understudies. Truman didnt even know about the Manhattan Project until he became President himself.

 

Nixon was very introverted (the Brodie book goes somewhat deeply into childhood events that may have made this so prominent in Nixon) and that, combined with his paranoia, vindictiveness, and poor social confidence/grace were major factors in his lacking for personal relationships. No, it was not that Everybody was out to get him. It was more that Nixon himself was a repellent to so many people. His political actions, personal corruption, and greed only furthered the distance. On top of this, his poor physical ability probably drove him further into himself and compounded the jealous/paranoid aspects of his character.

 

Remember, Nixon was doing the red-hunt bit before he was VP. The dark side of him, the side that almost completely dominated his Presidency, was already apparent during his first run at Congress.

 

Samuel Tilden, Grover Cleveland, and Andrew Jackson all handled stolen elections without becoming totally helpless weirdos, as well.

[snuffbox 0]

Nixon also once slapped a woman in public & probably (at least verbally) abused Pat. Classy guy.

 

If he could have tied his own shoes he could have been popular amongst pro wrestling fans.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I didn't say that it caused everything, just that it was probably a big part of the problem. I never invoked Al Gore nor South Park here, so I don't know where you got that. And in Eisenhower's case, with Nixon taking a fairly active role in the vice-presidency due to Eisenhower's health problems, perhaps Nixon thought Ike could deign to give some sort of endorsement instead of just slagging him. And yeah, being The Guy That Got Alger Hiss certainly couldn't have endeared him to the left. They held that grudge.

 

I learned that Nixon had always treated his wife very well, but when you're an alcoholic, anything's possible.

[snuffbox 0]

Nixon didnt want Ike's help in 1960. He really felt he could do it all on his own & have his 'own' reign. By the time he was convinced otherwise and Ike was invited in, it was too little/late.

 

Politcally, the only comparison that can really be made to the Nixon Machine (Haldeman, etc) is Bush Jr's.

 

Nixon seemed to always have an excuse handy (poor family, abusive father, damn liberals, mean old Ike, Daley, media, etc) but as bad or worse events/circumstances didn't impede or define others. John Adams (and many other Founders) was lacking teeth, Lincoln was ugly as hell, FDR was in a wheelchair, Clinton had a rough childhood, and, as already mentioned, several others have had elections stolen from them and didn't go batshit crazy.

[snuffbox 0]

Andrew Johnson and Franklin Pierce would be 6/7 on my list. Harding, Grant, and Carter would round out the top (or bottom) ten.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

Lincoln was ugly as hell, FDR was in a wheelchair

Call it excusemongering, but appearance wasn't instrumental/detrimental in one's electability until 1960, and the limitations of television at the time allowed Kennedy to parlay being loaded to the gills with cortisone into looking vibrant and healthy.

[snuffbox 0]

He injected cortisone to be able to stand upright. He was handsome, no homo.

 

Yes, the public were unaware of the extent of Roosevelt's handicap. But he helped foster that by managing to hold himself upright with his arms during speeches, heave himself forward using railings and shoulders, etc. A lot of people would give up under those conditions...FDR won 4 Presidential elections.

 

Bob Haldeman would approve of your theories, Czech.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

Nowhere did I impugn Roosevelt's courage in battling polio. Do you have an additional anus for pulling fallacies out of?

[snuffbox 0]

You have been dragging out excuses left & right for Nixon. I said that other Presidents (and contenders) have handled as bad, or worse, conditions as well as stolen elections far better than Nixon.

 

I didnt say you impugned anything. I said that FDR worked beyond his handicap (far worse than anything in Nixon's own life) rather than ever use it as an excuse.

 

Basically, there are NO excuses for Nixon. Only speculation based on his life as to why he was so fucked up.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

There haven't been many good ones. Comes with the job.

[snuffbox 0]

There have been plenty of good ones. Only a few great ones.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

I was referring to Carter and his anti-semitism. I only see that from the MikeSC`s of the world, so I was wondering if that was just another lame Anti-democrat accusation or something that was very real.

 

I don't know TOO much about the topic, but I think the accusation has its roots in the fact that he isn't as solidly pro-Israel in the Israeli/Palestinian issue as every other politician is (or acts at least). For instance right wingers seemed to kick up a storm b/c of this quote or that quote from his recent book on the issue.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I gotta go with Buchanan.

 

Bush Jr. is easily the worst of my lifetime.

[cabbageboy 0]

To me something like this boils down to four different criteria:

 

1. Did the president run a wildly corrupt administration?

2. What was the economy like? If it was good, fine. If it was bad, did the president try hard to fix it?

3. Foreign policy (dealing with other countries, wars, etc.).

4. Domestic policy (passing important bills, dealing with critical issues).

 

Someone like Nixon was wildly corrupt, no doubt. But he did improve relations with China, did start the Vietnam pullout and the like. So while he's probably the most corrupt he's certainly not the worst president ever.

 

Right now Bush is a disaster in terms of his foreign policy in the Middle East and hasn't had much in the way of domestic bills passed. That said, the economy during his 2nd term hasn't been all that awful...at least not a recession or depression.

 

I dare say in retrospect Bush Sr. was as bad or worse. The economy sucked during his regime, the first Gulf War didn't do jack shit long term, etc. The only thing he has going for him is that I don't think his administration was as corrupt as his son's.

 

The one thing saving the likes of Buchanan and Pierce in my book is that things didn't quite go to hell while they were in office. Their lousy years set the stage for the Civil War, but there's just something a bit...bland about them. Bottom 10 definitely, but I'm not sure either is the worst.

 

To me the worst president ever has to be Hoover. It helps to have grandparents who were alive during the Depression and could explain just how bad they hated Hoover. The guy fostered a phony, inflated economy that finally went bust and then proceeded to do jack shit to fix things. During this man's administration unemployment was at 30%! My grandpa put it this way: "Hoover wrecked this country so bad that we could have ended up embracing nazism or communism before Roosevelt started turning things around."

 

So yeah, Bush might suck right now but at least 1/3 of the country isn't out of work.

[EricMM 0]

For someone like me, Nixon, voluntarily or not, did sign in some big bills.

 

He created the EPA, the Endangered Species Act, Clean Water and Clean Air Acts or their predecessors, and the National Environmental Policy Act.

 

Maybe he didn't really like these things, but he heard the voices of the people, something far greater than you can attribute to Bush Jr.

 

Moreover I don't think you all entirely realize how crippling these deficits will be in a few decades.