Raw Thread For December 17th

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

I like JBL's promos. I think he has a limited moveset. When he wrestled Cena at Mania, all JBL did was neckbreakers. I was disappointed seeing that live.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

The JBL/Y2J segment was great. JBL exudes a brilliant arrogance. I know we already have the "cocky heel" thing being done by MVP, but JBL's promos are unique. With his character, you get a sense that WWE is an afterthought for him. Plus, JBL has a great intensity. I love it.

 

The rest of the show was mediocre. Like I've said many times, I don't care about Mcmahon. I'll admit Cena is more annoying than him, but at least Cena's a wrestler. I also don't give a damn about this Flair angle.

 

I did enjoy Santino on the mic and the tag main event.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Something about Raw just hit me, and I imagine it's a key reason why a 4 match show is getting positive feedback from the net...

 

No 15 minute / several 2 minute Hornswoggle segments!

[Jingus 0]

Yeah, weird how nobody else mentioned that.

One thing I didn't even notice until reading some reviews, and nobody else has noticed it either: no Hornswoggle tonight. Truthfully, did anyone miss him?

Oh.

 

 

I think he got popped in the mouth early on as he was holding his mouth a few times but normally when he is in a submission move he is screaming. Yet when umuga had him in the nerve hold, he didn't...in fact he wasn't selling it hardly at all. I thought that was a bit odd.

He was holding his hand up to cover up his mouth while calling a spot. It's an old veteran trick.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Sorry, guess I missed that. I see that was originally from a post about JBL and I was more or less just skimming those.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Did they do any follow up between Hardy and Hunter over their match at the PPV?

[Atticus Chaos 0]

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/4645/105/ (to listen to the stream)

 

http://www.f4wonline.com/free/121807bvshow.mp3 (to download it)

 

Bryan Alvarez with another funny rant about Kennedy, regarding his performance last night. About twnty minutes it.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Did they do any follow up between Hardy and Hunter over their match at the PPV?

 

No. It was kind of weird actually. Hardy came out and cut a promo on McMahon, then they went to commercial, and when they came back Hunter was in the ring and Hardy was gone. (Or Hardy was gone and Hunter came down to the ring.. I can't remember if he was already there or not)

[Kristianna 0]

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/4645/105/ (to listen to the stream)

 

http://www.f4wonline.com/free/121807bvshow.mp3 (to download it)

 

Bryan Alvarez with another funny rant about Kennedy, regarding his performance last night. About twnty minutes it.

 

Those two really tore into Kennedy. I can see where they're coming from, I suppose. But my question is, does anyone else here think that Kennedy is really that dangerous?

 

The part about Michaels taking Kennedy over the ropes forcibly was something even I noticed, and I remember thinking the same thing that Bryan talked about.

[Jingus 0]

I never really paid close enough attention to notice it until I started listening to Alvarez's show, but Kennedy really does blow a surprising amount of spots and moves. Little shit like when Jeff was coming down for the legdrop, and Kennedy randomly spasmed, turned sideways, and sat halfway up all before the move connected. He tends to puss out on a lot of offense, either kinda moving out of the way or putting his hands up for damn near everything. All the stuff Bryan and Vinnie talk about are the kinds of insider mistakes which most fans don't notice, but drive the wrestlers crazy.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

It might not be fair to call Kennedy dangerous because it's not like he's injurying guys all time, but he is dangerous in the sense he has a reckless ring style that could lead to someone getting hurt (and possibly already has if you consider the Cena injury his fault).

 

I'm really surprised a road agent hasn't sat him down and told him to knock it off. He basically made many of the same mistakes he made in the last match with Hardy and HBK. I can only assume they are and he's ignoring them for whatever reason.

[Hawk 34 0]

I figured he had a good talking to after that match with Shawn a few weeks ago.

[Kristianna 0]

Guys... I have something potentially self-nullifying to admit here... amongst a collection of smarks. I re-watched the final match from last nights RAW, and I realized that I was actually excited to see Jeff hit the Twist Of Fate, the Swanton, and get the pin. Not in a, well that was some greatly executed offense lab-analyzed way that we often do here. I mean, I was actually edging closer to the TV, with the speakers turned up, really and truly feeling how much the crowd was getting into Hardy.

 

I myself... was marking out. Not in a sarcastic way. I mean, fuck, it was like being a 12 year-old all over again.

 

I've been following The Hardys for a really long time, and for some reason its actually... really exciting to see Jeff get his shot at the real MAIN EVENT. I know there's about a .001% chance of him winning cleanly and getting the strap. But for some reason, I don't care. I'm glad to be seeing it happen anyway.

 

Be gentle, boys.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

You'd think the mere fact that he'd pissed off Shawn Michaels would been enough to scare some sense into him. He's been there roughly 2 years, which is more than enough time to realise HBK's one of last people you'd want angry with you.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You'd think the mere fact that he'd pissed off Shawn Michaels would been enough to scare some sense into him. He's been there roughly 2 years, which is more than enough time to realise HBK's one of last people you'd want angry with you.

Common sense hasn't exactly been Kennedy's hallmark this year.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I was the same way. Not on re-watching it, but watching it the firt time. I actually thought Orton was going to hit the RKO and get the pin at the end, but then when Hardy reversed it I was like Yes!!

 

Jeff has been my favourite wrestler since I got into wrestling, as I stated before. (Well, not exactly true.. I used to watch and like Austin, but not on a regular basis.)

 

The most memorable match of any RAW/SD to me has been the Hardy vs Taker ladder match. I really wish Jeff would have won that. But, maybe he'll get his chance now. It's certainly what the fans seem to want.

 

 

[Black Lushus 0]

well we all know challenger pinning champion in tag match does not = eventual title change...

[Hawk 34 0]

Despite being a confessed Punk mark, I wouldn't object to Hardy getting a run with the ECW title. I was pushing that idea in the summer when Jeff really got hot.

 

What will they do with the IC title during the Orton build? Leave with Jeff and give him something for post-rumble or have Orton cheat him out of the title to someone like Kennedy/Carlito?

[Twisted Intestine 0]

well we all know challenger pinning champion in tag match does not = eventual title change...

 

That's true, but there's still 3 RAWs before the PPV. Isn't it usually whoever goes over on the last RAW, loses the PPV match?

[Black Lushus 0]

good point

[AntiLeaf33 0]

well we all know challenger pinning champion in tag match does not = eventual title change...

 

That's true, but there's still 3 RAWs before the PPV. Isn't it usually whoever goes over on the last RAW, loses the PPV match?

 

That is the tried and tested formula

[haws bah gawd 0]

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/4645/105/ (to listen to the stream)

 

http://www.f4wonline.com/free/121807bvshow.mp3 (to download it)

 

Bryan Alvarez with another funny rant about Kennedy, regarding his performance last night. About twnty minutes it.

 

Those two really tore into Kennedy. I can see where they're coming from, I suppose. But my question is, does anyone else here think that Kennedy is really that dangerous?

 

The part about Michaels taking Kennedy over the ropes forcibly was something even I noticed, and I remember thinking the same thing that Bryan talked about.

 

My favorite part of the audio show was when they were talking about how Kennedy was POUNDING on Jeff Hardy with legitimate punches in the corner, to the point that the referee had to yell at him to lighten up. Kennedy even hit Jeff Hardy in the back with a double axe handle, as hard as he could to break up a pin. Then, when HBK was lighting-up Kennedy with Chops in the corner, it seemed Ken was afraid to take them. Looks like Kennedy is one of those that can dish it out, but cant take it.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I never really paid close enough attention to notice it until I started listening to Alvarez's show, but Kennedy really does blow a surprising amount of spots and moves. Little shit like when Jeff was coming down for the legdrop, and Kennedy randomly spasmed, turned sideways, and sat halfway up all before the move connected. He tends to puss out on a lot of offense, either kinda moving out of the way or putting his hands up for damn near everything. All the stuff Bryan and Vinnie talk about are the kinds of insider mistakes which most fans don't notice, but drive the wrestlers crazy.

 

I never really how forceful he can be in the ring until I heard the first big Kennedy bash about the match with Michaels. When I watched Jannetty vs Kennedy last week, I kinda thought "hmm, did Ken need to smash Marty's knee into the mat THAT hard? Did he need to pieface him THAT forcefully?". I thought maybe I was just being a mark about it but sure enough, without naming those specific spots, Alverez's review of the 15th Anniversary show mentioned something about Kennedy's forceful nature.

 

On another note, yesterday's WO.com daily report said to assume Drew McIntyre was moved to Raw based on the Monday show. Did I miss something?

[LJSexay 0]

I really like Kennedy (heheh), but nobody can really defend his reckless style. It's pretty unnecessary, and is gonna eventually get him into problems.

 

I have to point out though, did you guys notice these things when he was working with Taker and Batista? Cuz I sure didn't, and I'm sure we would've heard if Taker was pissed at him for some of that.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Kennedy probably took extra caution to make sure he pulled his punches against Undertaker. That's one of the last people you want to work recklessly with.

[Guest whizzo]

well we all know challenger pinning champion in tag match does not = eventual title change...

 

That's true, but there's still 3 RAWs before the PPV. Isn't it usually whoever goes over on the last RAW, loses the PPV match?

 

That is the tried and tested formula

 

 

 

Ok. we were in a beautiful world of markdom and you guys have completly ruined it!!

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Kennedy: The most overhyped (by the both WWE and the internet) underachiever in quite a long time.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think WWE will be glad in the long run that they didn't put the belt on Kennedy. His whole gimmick is way too one note to be world champ in my opinion. His schtick of introducing himself was an amusing intro to get him over, but it's still really the only thing he has that is over at all. I've found his actual extended mic work mostly ponderous with a few exceptions.

 

As far as ring work goes, I hadn't noticed so much about him being stiff or overly sloppy. It's more that he's bland as shit in the ring and has no real interesting offense. He had some sorta decent matches during his initial SD run, but it seems like once he got hurt in late 2005 he lost it somehow.

[Exslade ZX 0]

I think the thing with Kennedy, is that it's just his "style". He's obviously going to have to change it, but I've noticed it from the start. He's always tried to make it look 'real'. Whenever someone hoists him up, he's fighting back, trying to make it look like he's escaping. Whether he was up for the Batista bomb, or as we saw on RAW, when Hardy was doing his leg drop move.

 

and I think, in a ring where guys are now used to just picking a guy up and having him run with the move, having a guy youre holding struggling will lead to a lot more botches. I personally liked it, it would always look cool when he'd be up for a powerbomb, actually trying to fight back. But of course, if it's really causing problems, he's gonna have to change it up. You would think he would have figured that out by now if he's getting any shit backstage.

 

I didn't notice the overly stiff punches or anything. I would think if that was really that big of a problem, whoever would just do it right back.

[Golgo 13 0]

I don't think Kennedy is necessarily bad or undeserving, just forcing himself after some bad luck, then blowing his own chance and coming off badly for it, especially with his style. He was in a more secure spot in the company before and didn't feel the need to do so way back, which is why we didn't hear of any run-ins until recently. Of course, it's evident from him obviously putting too much into his matches and apparently going to everyone in the back looking for answers.

 

It's questionable whether someone who's so insecure and has apparently cracked from this much is deserving of a top spot anyway. Honestly, he's always seemed like a bit of a perfectionist who, being insecure, emotional and excitable, would've cracked eventually. Furthermore, he's always seemed somewhat unnatural and perhaps needs to do more out there as it is.

 

It's arguable that WWE didn't do enough on their end. For example, getting punked by Edge and taking it with no follow-up, unnecessarily moving him from SmackDown and jobbing him to Super Crazy when he was still hot.

 

I think he's better than most are now giving him credit for, but despite what I said above, he was never going to be a flagbearer anyway. Orton is outshining Kennedy when he was at his best. MVP is there where Kennedy was at right now and is only getting better. I think Carlito is dead even as far as talent. Maybe one or two short or transitional runs with the belt is all he's honestly good for, but a IC/US level to Orton Jr., Piper, DiBiase, etc., type role is more apt.