Spring Training 2008

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Well.

 

1) They have to play the Yankees, Red Sox, and Blue Jays 57 out of 162 times.

2) They have finished dead last in their division in 9 of 10 years in their history.

3) Their best season saw them lose 91 baseball games.

4) They are the Tampa Bay Rays

 

I would like to see them finish .500 in this division before I ever, ever, ever....ever buy them as possible playoff contenders. Especially when you also have the Detroits, and Clevelands of the worlds to deal with as well. Let's be real here. Maybe in MLB: The Show they have a chance.

[Guest Michael Myers Resplendent]

Only reason #1 has any effect on the outcome of the 2008 season.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

#4 helps.

[Guest Michael Myers Resplendent]

Look, I don't think they're finishing above .500 either, but citing their record in 2002 as a determinant of their record in 2008 is just plain silly. It might be sort of nice to see the Rays succeed against all odds like the 2001 and 2002 Oakland A's, but the Yankees and Red Sox are two of the best organizations in baseball right now. That's why the only team they'll definitely finish ahead of is Baltimore.

[Guest frostdude1]

hehe

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's a matter of time before the Rays make some noise in the AL East. At this moment they have the best 3B prospect in baseball, three of the top ten pitching prospects in baseball, and one of the better shortstop prospects in baseball. Their hitting is league average right now. If they can clear up the pitching holes and find guys who are even league average, they will improve in a hurry.

 

Here's something I didn't realize. The Rays actually led the American League in pitcher strikeouts last season.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I cant see the ..Rays.. finishing ahead of the Orioles. Right now, yeah..but as the season progresses I would put money on Percival and Floyd breaking down, and Pena not living up to 07. Matt Garza wont be any better than some of the younger pitchers they have and I cant see Jason Bartlett having any impact.

 

I honestly think the Os will get better as the season progresses, and for as bad as the lineup looks right now I think the pitching staff wont miss a beat without Bedard and the bullpen will be vastly improved over 07. Im not delusional into thinking the Orioles have a playoff shot now..and they probably will finish in 4th place again..but its not going to be such a bad year that they finish behind the ..Rays..

 

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Here's where Bartlett helps the club. Last year the Rays finished dead last in defensive efficiency, which is simply a measure of how often a defense turns a ball in play into an out. Part of the reason for that is they had an offense-first shortstop named Brendan Harris manning the position. Bartlett solidifies the position, and will vastly improve the team defense over last season.

 

Matt Garza compiled a 3.67 ERA in 15 starts for the Twins last year, and posted a 3.62 mark in Rochester. Garza was the Twins' #1 prospect heading into the season, so there is no reason to think he is a fluke. The Rays meanwhile had eight pitchers give them ten or more starts. Six of them posted an ERA higher than 5.50. You think Garza won't improve that staff?

 

On the offense you have Dioner Navarro, B.J. Upton, Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli who have yet to enter their primes. If Cliff Floyd breaks down, Jonny Gomes and his capable production steps in. Evan Longoria should come up by mid season and push Akinori Iwamura to second base.

 

Right now the bullpen is the big concern. A lot of that is actually their fielding. With B.J. Upton out of the infield for good, a steady shortstop and a another great prospect, that situation improves. I'm predicting right now that the Rays have their best franchise season yet.

[CanadianChris 0]

The Orioles will lose 100 games this season.

 

I think Tampa Bay should be considered the favourite to finish at least third in the East. The Jays aren't anything special this year, and I think they'll struggle to reach .500. I don't think it's much of a stretch to see the Rays winning 85 games. Do I think they'll make the playoffs? Not this year. Do I think they're on the rise? Definitely.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

The Orioles arent going to lose 100 games this year. They arent that bad of a team as it stands now.

 

And the Rays might be on the rise, but that balloon is going to be popped this upcoming offseason when they have to trade Kazmir. They wont be able to stay in contention for any length of time if they cant afford to resign their best players.

 

Oh and it looks like Roberts and Payton will be going to the Cubs at some point this week..

[geniusMoment 0]

The Orioles arent going to lose 100 games this year. They arent that bad of a team as it stands now.

 

And the Rays might be on the rise, but that balloon is going to be popped this upcoming offseason when they have to trade Kazmir. They wont be able to stay in contention for any length of time if they cant afford to resign their best players.

The Orioles blow. I like how you think trading away your ace isn't going to negatively impact the pitching staff. It's cute really.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

I hope they have many of the top prospects in the game, every year they pick at the top of the draft.

 

As for citing their past history, I'm saying that I've never seen them as anything other than pathetic basement dwellers with ugly uniforms, a hideous stadium, and about 800 fans. They have never really shown me anything different, so there isn't any reason for me to think they are going to sneak up and go 81-81 this year, as promising as the kids may be. And don't point out last years DBacks/Rockies, that division is wide open every year.

 

In summary: I've believe it when I see it.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

The Orioles arent going to lose 100 games this year. They arent that bad of a team as it stands now.

 

And the Rays might be on the rise, but that balloon is going to be popped this upcoming offseason when they have to trade Kazmir. They wont be able to stay in contention for any length of time if they cant afford to resign their best players.

The Orioles blow. I like how you think trading away your ace isn't going to negatively impact the pitching staff. It's cute really.

 

Because they improved the bullpen in the trade (Sherrill) AND are getting back Adam Loewen who was off to a good start last year before getting hurt. I dont think trading Bedard is going to hurt the Orioles as much as everyone thinks...

 

Rotation looks like Guthrie/Loewen/Cabrera/Trachsel/???

 

Thats almost exactly as it was last year with the exception of Guthrie in Bedard's spot and I dont think theres going to be much drop off from Bedard to Guthrie other than in K's.

 

I was also saddened to hear that Troy Patton most likely has a torn labrum and wont pitch this year.

[Guest Michael Myers Resplendent]

Look, I agree with you. I'm as skeptical of the Rays' promised success as you are. In fact, I'm dreading it in a way, because I hate that Tampa Bay's sports teams have ever progressed beyond being awful, and worse, actually won championships. It's not fair. You're right about the crappy uniforms and stadium, but they're not germane to the argument. The farm system has been progressing well, they made some risky acquisitions that could work out well, and I can see them making it out of last place.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

I'll take them over the Os, but it is a big stretch for me to even think they could surprize and take 3rd.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Orioles arent going to lose 100 games this year. They arent that bad of a team as it stands now.

 

You're insane. The Orioles are the worst team in baseball. If they win 70 games it'll be a miracle. They just took a 69 win team and traded their two best players for one good prospect who's ready to contribute. Please don't delude yourself into thinking that they have a shot to do anything other than finish 5th in their division this year.

 

The Rays are better at every position on the diamond, except for right field and second base (if they don't trade Roberts). The starting pitching is better. The bullpen is better. Management is more competent and they have a plethora of talent in the minors that can help. Why would you possibly think that O's have a chance of finishing ahead of them?

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

TheSmartMarks.com -> Replying in Spring Training 2008[/url]='2632803']

The Orioles arent going to lose 100 games this year. They arent that bad of a team as it stands now.

 

You're insane. The Orioles are the worst team in baseball. If they win 70 games it'll be a miracle. They just took a 69 win team and traded their two best players for one good prospect who's ready to contribute. Please don't delude yourself into thinking that they have a shot to do anything other than finish 5th in their division this year.

 

The Rays are better at every position on the diamond, except for right field and second base (if they don't trade Roberts). The starting pitching is better. The bullpen is better. Management is more competent and they have a plethora of talent in the minors that can help. Why would you possibly think that O's have a chance of finishing ahead of them?

 

I dont see how you can say the Rays Bullpen is better since their bullpen was worse than the Orioles last year by a long shot which says something since the Os were 29th and they signed freakin Troy Percival to be their closer. Orioles dont even have a closer named yet but its likely going to be Sherrill.

 

Id also like to say that a healthy Ramon Hernandez is better than whoever the Rays trot out (Dioner Navarro?) I wont even give you 3B either since a rapidly declining Melvin Mora is still better than "he he its Evan not Eva" Longoria.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I dont see how you can say the Rays Bullpen is better since their bullpen was worse than the Orioles last year by a long shot which says something since the Os were 29th and they signed freakin Troy Percival to be their closer. Orioles dont even have a closer named yet but its likely going to be Sherrill.

 

I don't see how citing last year's numbers means anything in this conversation. The Rays totally revamped their awful bullpen. Percival, Reyes and Wheeler are all superior to any option in the O's pen, and they have a couple of guys, including Eduardo Morlan, who could be excellent in the pen if given the opportunity.

 

Id also like to say that a healthy Ramon Hernandez is better than whoever the Rays trot out (Dioner Navarro?) I wont even give you 3B either since a rapidly declining Melvin Mora is still better than "he he its Evan not Eva" Longoria.

 

Ramon Hernandez and Dioner Navarro is a wash, but at least Navarro still has some upside left. Ramon Hernandez is cooked.

 

If Evan Longoria plays a full season he'll put up an .800 OPS, which is something that Mora lost the ability to do somewhere around 5 years ago. Hell, if he only plays 3/4 season I bet his numbers end up trouncing Mora. It's not even fair to compare the two.

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

Oh and it looks like Roberts and Payton will be going to the Cubs at some point this week..

 

Is Payton the guy who got in a fistfight with Terry Francona on an airplane? I think that's all I really know about him, besides his stats which aren't very impressive, but I guess he'll just be platooning with Pie.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Jay Payton, like Johnny Cash, has been everywhere, man.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Jay Payton's also a huge douche. He should just go away.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I dont see how you can say the Rays Bullpen is better since their bullpen was worse than the Orioles last year by a long shot which says something since the Os were 29th and they signed freakin Troy Percival to be their closer. Orioles dont even have a closer named yet but its likely going to be Sherrill.

 

I don't see how citing last year's numbers means anything in this conversation. The Rays totally revamped their awful bullpen. Percival, Reyes and Wheeler are all superior to any option in the O's pen, and they have a couple of guys, including Eduardo Morlan, who could be excellent in the pen if given the opportunity.

 

Id also like to say that a healthy Ramon Hernandez is better than whoever the Rays trot out (Dioner Navarro?) I wont even give you 3B either since a rapidly declining Melvin Mora is still better than "he he its Evan not Eva" Longoria.

 

Ramon Hernandez and Dioner Navarro is a wash, but at least Navarro still has some upside left. Ramon Hernandez is cooked.

 

If Evan Longoria plays a full season he'll put up an .800 OPS, which is something that Mora lost the ability to do somewhere around 5 years ago. Hell, if he only plays 3/4 season I bet his numbers end up trouncing Mora. It's not even fair to compare the two.

 

Ramon Hernandez came back to camp having lost weight but its pretty clear he could get traded to bring up Wieters this year. I dont know how you're cooked if you have one year that was injury riddled.

 

As far as the bullpen goes, through trades and injuries the Os have overhauled their bullpen as well. the only guys guaranteed to be out there on Opening Day are Walker, Bradford and Sherill.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Jeter's Gym

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Here's a comparison of the bullpens (credit Yahoo for the early roster names). I only included the notable relievers for each team.

 

Baltimore

Greg Aquino: 4.49 ERA in 62.1 IP. 63 K vs. 29 BB. (2006 and 2007)

Chad Bradford: 3.34 ERA in 64.2 IP. 39 K vs. 16 BB.

Jamie Walker: 3.23 ERA in 61.1 IP. 41 K vs. 17 BB.

George Sherrill: 2.36 ERA in 45.2 IP. 56 K vs. 17 BB.

Chris Ray: 4.43 ERA in 42.2 IP. 44 K vs. 18 BB.

Dennis Sarfate: 1.80 ERA in 8.1 IP. 14 K vs. 1 BB. (Could be a huge acquisition if he does similar over more innings)

 

Tampa Bay

Scott Dohmann: 3.31 ERA in 32.2 IP. 26 K vs. 18 BB.

Trever Miller: 4.86 ERA in 46.1 IP. 46 K vs. 23 BB.

Gary Glover: 4.89 ERA in 77.1 IP. 51 K vs. 27 BB.

Troy Percival: 1.80 ERA in 40.0 IP. 36 K vs. 10 BB.

Al Reyes: 4.90 ERA in 60.2 IP. 70 K vs. 21 BB. (Should see his ERA go down with better defense)

Juan Salas: 3.72 ERA in 36.1 IP. 26 K vs. 17 BB.

Dan Wheeler: 5.42 ERA in 74.2 IP. 82 K vs. 23 BB (See Al Reyes)

 

IMO, it's about consistency. Baltimore needs to have another solid season out of the mentioned guys while Tampa Bay should see the bullpen ERA improve with better defense behind the pitcher. The question is, will the defense sustain throughout the season in Tampa Bay.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

One of the underrated aspects of bullpen success is management and usage patterns. The key to the success of any bullpen is keeping those guys from pitching more than they have to.

 

Baltimore and TB wrecked their bullpens last year because of bad starting pitching and inconsistent middle relief. The very fact that TB should have 3 top-notch pitchers at the start of the rotation and three more at the back end of the bullpen should stabilize things and make it less likely that they have to rely on the flotsam that inhabits most team's bullpens.

 

With Baltimore, I still see these things as a problem, but then again the inconsistency of relievers could make the bullpen a strength.

 

 

[mike546 0]

Isn't Chris Ray out for the year?

[Guest Michael Myers Resplendent]

What does Aramis Ramirez do with his money?

 

HE SPENDS IT ON A THOUSAND FIGHTING ROOSTERS.

 

Also, fuck Jay Payton; I want Sam Fuld in center.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Isn't Chris Ray out for the year?

 

Yes. TJ surgery.

[CanadianChris 0]

Isn't Chris Ray out for the year?

That was the report when they shut him down in August. Apparently, the surgery went very well, and he could be back sometime after the All-Star break.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Jay Payton, like Johnny Cash, has been everywhere, man.

 

Hank Snow.