The Legacy Of Ric Flair

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

As of right now, it appears that this Sunday will mark the end of the career of Ric Flair. Love him or hate him, his career has been one of remarkable durability and unbelievable accomplishments.

 

Use this thread to reflect on Ric Flair, his career and his future. Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly? What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future? Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it? Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

Other possible topics to discuss:

 

-What's your favorite Flair match?

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

-Did he hang on too long?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'll address hanging on for a moment. In one way, it hurts his legacy. On the other hand, staying in the spotlight is important. How much do modern fans remember a Jack Brisco nowadays?

 

I remember the big moments more than the great matches. There have been better matches with Kerry Von Erich than the Cotton Bowl title change, but no other match was as important to a promotion. I think if I were to pick five definative Flair matches, they'd be the Royal Rumble, Starrcade '93 vs. Vader, Clash VI vs. Steamboat, the Christmas '82 cage match with Kerry, and Clash I vs. Sting.

[AnnieEclectic 0]

Nothing can tarnish Flair in his prime. Face or heel one of the best guys on the mic, and just enough ring skills to be entertaining. Flair Flop? I kind of understand the hanging on notion if only because he probably could have stayed an on air personality with just as much importance but a 'last tour' at the same time was a cool idea.

 

I don't know, but I don't see much tarnishing. One of the most well known men in the industry.

 

-Annie

[Diamonddust 0]

I think Flair's legacy is such that no matter how much crap they had him do in his later years, the fans will still remember Ric Flair in his prime. He was the total package in terms of a professional wrestler. He also had the class and image that made being a world champion look important.

 

-What's your favorite Flair match?: There are a whole lot of them, but I'd put the I Quit Match against Terry Funk on top of the list. Two great masters beating the hell out of each other.

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers? I don't think he's overrated or underrated. Any wrestling fan with half a brain will credit Flair as the Babe Ruth of Wrestling.

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you? It means that no matter how hard the promoters tried to screw him or do something different, they always went back to Flair because he could bring the goods. As Jim Cornette once said, "Sting vs. Flair drew. Luger vs. Flair drew. Luger vs. Sting fell on its face because it had no Flair."

 

-Did he hang on too long? Yeah, but what else was he going to do? I won't fault him for staying as long as he did, especially since he can be more entertaining than a lot of younger guys.

[Guest]

Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly?

No. Hell no. I wanted them to give him a title shot at a lesser show, use the retirement thing as a selling point for the main, and have him go out that way. But HBK/Flair seems like they shoved Flair to the back of the line and HBK was a last resort option.

 

What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

It'll be good. Really good. Not that Flair needs to be led along, but with an experienced worker like HBK, he won't be rushed into and through spots by someone less experienced. Better paced, I should say.

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

Helped it by keeping his name out there, but it's gone on so much longer than I thought it would that I almost find it embarassing at this point.

Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

Terry Funk retirement. He'll do a one-shot somewhere.

 

What's your favorite Flair match?

Flair/Steamboat at the Clash.

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

Neither. Compared to his 90's peers, he is more easily overlooked. Part of that is because he didn't hold the title through the period in which WCW was super hot. Genius move there.

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

Some do, and some don't. I don't think anything that happened in 2000 should mean, well, anything. His reigns in the 80's definitely mean the most, for multiple reasons. They were the longest. Most exposed, as in, the company was doing its best when he had them. He could carry the company on his back, as well. I don't know if that was the case in the 90's, especially during his WWF run. Business went into the toilet, although there are other reasons for that.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

Yes.

[haws bah gawd 0]

-What's your favorite Flair match?

Damn, that's asking a bit much. He put on some major clinics with the likes of Windham, Steamboat, and Funk in the 80's. In the 90's, he did great stuff with Sting, Vader. Even in the 2000's, he can still do God's work in the ring with the likes of HHH, Orton, and even Undertaker at Wrestlemania X-8.

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

Flair deserves every accolade he receives. While most of the guys that were around in his time, such as Steamboat, Windham, and Funk have hung up the boots for the most part, Flair is still hanging in there. His offense is mostly limited to chops, knee drops, and the occasional chopblock these days, but he brings a great charisma and storytelling knack to any match he is in.

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

His last WCW title win doesn't mean a hill of beans to me due to Nash just handing him the title, so he could drop it to Jarrett later in the same show, but the man has a fairly unprecedented resume.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

I sometimes fear for his health and well-being when hes in matches, but if he can still go, let him go. There will never be another like Flair.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly?

 

No. They've botched the storyline since day one, and it only really recovered when Shawn Michaels got involved. It still feels somewhat special, but it could have, and should have, been so much more than this.

 

What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

 

I expect a really good match, that will probably hit the **** mark. Flair's role will be to dominate at first because Shawn will have second thoughts about ending Flair's career, and then start bumping and most likely blading as well.

 

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

 

They've kept his name out there, but for a lot of the time they've never let him run loose on the mic, which has always been his strongest point, and with his decline in ability the one thing that's stayed at a consistent level over the years.

 

Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

I doubt anyone seriously thinks Flair will never wrestle again if he loses on Sunday. He'll return somewhere down the line, and it'll probably be this year, which will tarnish what is probably going to be one of the years few moments of genuine emotion.

 

What's your favorite Flair match?

 

Against Steamboat at the Clash in New Orleans.

 

Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

I think he's like Shawn, in that he's overrated as a wrestler. He's not overrated as a performer, but strictly speaking about the non-showmanship aspects, Flair wasn't great. He was good, but not great.

 

Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

Some have meaning, some are totally worthless. Generally, the earlier in his career, the more the title win means.

 

Did he hang on too long?

 

For the modern fans who don't really know Flair's pre-1992, yes. Unless you've really followed Flair's career, he comes across as an old man trying to act like he's still in his 20s. It's like coming into a movie halfway through; what you're watching doesn't make sense to you, because you've missed half the story, but to everyone else, it's great.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

I like where the WWE folder is going. I haven't been a regular viewer for years but I still remember how much I loved wrestling when it was good. Threads like these give me a chance to actually talk about what I like about wrestling, not what is wrong with it (i.e. everything today).

 

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it? Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

He's basically been a geriatric comedy act during his WWE run, and I've watched some shows with friends where they openly laughed at his dated routine. I highly doubt that he is going to stay retired, and I also doubt that this match will be anywhere close to 4 stars, though I can see Meltzer giving it at least that much.

 

-What's your favorite Flair match?

 

Probably the Flair vs Funk I Quit match because Flair deviated from his usual formula to deliver a compelling brawl.

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

More overrated than any wrestler in the history of the internet and dirt sheets. He was an excellent promo and a competent worker, but he stuck to a predictable routine that took away the drama from his matches, and he didn't exactly need 30-60 minutes to tell those "stories."

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

See HTQ/CHP's answer.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

 

Yes.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly?

Given the state of the WWE creative team it has been better than I would have expected.

 

What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

Great match. Easily the most emotional part of the card. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

Absolutely improved his legacy, much more than WCW ever did.

 

Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

He'll be back. Most wrestlers have to be physically unable to work in order to completely retire.

 

What's your favorite Flair match?

Damn this is difficult. I just might have to go with his match against Vader from Starrcade 93.

 

Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

Flair managed to remain one of the top guys while always making his opponents look good. That is what makes someone a great wrestler.

 

Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

Promoters love Ric Flair. He brought a sense of legitimacy to every championship that he ever held.

 

Did he hang on too long?

Not in my opinion. He could stick around even longer as far as I'm concerned.

[The Truthiness 0]

 

Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly?

 

Yes, they did. It's been awesome from the start, and I expect a classic ending sunday.

 

What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

 

I expect a great match with tons of heat, and a very good finish. HBK and Flair both are geniuses at laying out dramatic finishes, this will be no different.

 

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

 

They didn't hurt more than the last 4 years of WCW, if anything they made him releveamt again.

 

Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

I think it's really over. He'd be a moron to come back after this kind of send off.

 

-What's your favorite Flair match?

 

Barry Windham january 1987, Barry was my favorite wrestler at the time, and I really believed he was going to take the title from Flair. This match is truly a masterpiece

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

He is so overrated, that he is underrated. Sure he's overrated, but when I think about some of the guys who get called great these days, Flair isn't the 1st guy that comes the mind, or the 20th. He is overrated as far as being "the best wrestler ever" is concerned, but he has had more longevity and relevance than a lot of his peers in the 80's, 90's, and the 2000's. I think Flair was the 1st wrestler who really understood that if you tell the fans "you're the best ever" confidently for a long period of time, they'll eventually agree, even if it is a lie.

 

 

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

Not really, the 1st 8 were really special though.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

 

He should've stopped working a full schedule after the Vader program, and saved himself for big matches like the Hogan match 1 year later. Yeah, I think he hung around a little too long, but I enjoyed almost everything he did.

 

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly? What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future? Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it? Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

As another poster stated, the Flair retirement angle would have been far better if he made the decision to do it and not being forced into it by Vince McMahon.

Also, the perfect ending to the angle should've been the classic Career Vs. Title spot.

 

Michaels / Flair will be the best match of WM 24.

 

I would've liked it better if Flair had stayed in a managerial position as he did with HHH instead of being JTTS.

 

He'll be back just like everybody else that's retired from the WWE.

 

-What's your favorite Flair match?

 

Savage / Flair WM VIII, classic storytelling start to finish.

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

A bit overrated, but he does belong in the Greatest Top 10 category and I appreciate his overall contribution to the business.

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

Yes, but it would've been nice if he had one more title win.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

 

Yes, honestly he should've retired years ago either at WM 18 or at the 2003 RAW in Greenville, but I did enjoyed his Taboo Tuesday cage match against HHH and the TLC match against Edge for the WWE Championship.

[Guest Good Old JR]

- Has WWE handled his impending retirement properly?

 

Austin's original idea was better - don't understand why Vince inserted himself into the angle when he had JBL/Finlay to be part of too

 

- What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

 

Sunday's match will either be the best we've seen this year to date or a flop. I'm rooting for the former.

 

- Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

 

When I think of Flair, I think of big gold belt, robes and Steamboat/Sting/Funk/Vader. So I guess WWE hasn't done anything to enhance it.

 

- Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

I would LOVE Flair to come back as a manager for someone like ... Orton.

 

What's your favorite Flair match?

 

The second with Steamboat or the draw with Sting

 

-Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

No. I think he deserves the rep. as the greatest of all time.

 

-Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

Means he was on top, for a LONG time.

 

-Did he hang on too long?

 

I don't want him to lose Sunday ...

[Promoter 0]

Damn, I haven't been on this forum in over a year. With the changes around here I was surprised my account was still active and happy it was too. I missed last year's Mania and pretty much all of the last year. What was Austin's original idea.

 

I actually think Vince forcing Flair's retirement is a good angle. Of course it gives them an out that I hope they won't use. You know, Vince always going back on his word or some crap. I think they have handled Flair's retirement angle well tying in the HOF. It's a great way to end things. I expect the match to be dramatic. Remember how Flair did that angle with Bischoff in wcw(Fire me I'm already fired). Put HBK in there and it should be good. Historically, it makes better sense for HBK to end the career with all the comparisons he got in the 90's. HHH is much more manufactured as some "Flair" apparent and no I'm not hating on HHH, but HBK has that finesse like Flair.

[dubq 0]

IMO - Flair is the level of wrestler that he should be given a WWE Title win (as in the Raw belt, the one that matters) to retire with. He's given that much to the business that I think they should let him go out at the highest level possible.

[Promoter 0]

Yeah, but isnt Flair's "belt" on smackdown?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

What do you expect out of this Sunday's match and what will be Flair's role in the future?

 

Hopefully a very solid match with a good story, in which Flair comes up "just short" of beating Michaels. I may get choked up at the end.

 

I don't know what Flair plans for the future. I just hope he isn't reduced to a Mick Foley-like figure that comes back every so often to get a cheap pop out of the crowd, and plays the "authority figure" every once in a while. I'd love to see him be a manager or something.

 

Has this WWE run hurt his overall legacy or improved it?

 

I think it's improved it, as far as making the current fans remember him.

 

Can he really stay retired or this just another Terry Funk retirement?

 

I get the feeling he's done for good. I don't think he'd be doing this if he wasn't adamantly sure he was done in the ring.

 

What's your favorite Flair match?

 

I think the cage match against Harley Race.

 

Is he overrated/underrated relative to his 80s and 90s peers?

 

He's basically the greatest pro-wrestler of all time. No one can really claim the longevity on top like Flair.

 

Do the 21 (16?) world title wins mean anything to you?

 

Somewhat. It doesn't mean as much as it once did, but it's something Flair will always have that no one can take away. Even if someone like Triple H eventually has more, Flair's will probably mean more.

Did he hang on too long?

 

No. He could still go and put on an entertaining match. I have a hard time telling anyone they're too old to do what they love, especially if they're still entertaining people.

[dubq 0]

Yeah, but isnt Flair's "belt" on smackdown?

 

The design is there, but it's not the same belt, per se.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Thank You Ric Flair!

 

Where do I begin? Nothing lasts forever. It’s a sad truth that even I have trouble getting used to. I knew the day would come when the “Nature Boy” would hang it up for good. I feel privileged to have witnessed so many of Ric Flair’s matches over these past thirty plus years on television and in person. Just like Michael Jordan is considered the best basketball player of all time, Flair can be referred to as the best professional wrestler to ever lace up a pair of boots. He has the hardware and the main events to back up such a claim. While Hulk Hogan might be a bigger household name, the 16 time World Champion Ric Flair is at the top of my list and countless other fans as well.

 

When Shawn Michaels made the announcement on Monday Night Raw that Ric Flair was to be inducted into the 2008 WWE Hall of Fame, it became more clear that the jet flying, limousine riding, kiss stealing, wheeling and dealing legend was headed into retirement. It still remains to be seen if The Heartbreak Kid will be the one to defeat Ric Flair at Wrestlemania 24 in Orlando, but it would be a fitting end to one of the greatest careers in any pro sport. To lose to a superstar like Shawn Michaels at the grandest stage of them all, in what could be an awesome match, is a story book ending. With Flair headlining the Class of 2008 Hall of Fame Inductees, look for ratings to be the highest they have ever been for this televised ceremony.

 

I was fortunate enough to meet Ric Flair on a couple of occasions, the first being a bit more memorable. I was in Sydney, Australia for the Summer Olympic Games in the year 2000 for a vacation that I will never forget. Coincidentally, WCW made their first trip to the Land Down Under that Summer and due to my affiliation with WOW Magazine at the time, Bill Apter was able to get me backstage for some interviews before the show. I remember talking with Mike Awesome, Tony Schiavone, Shawn Stasiak, Kiwi (remember him)and many others getting their take on Australia and what it means to perform in front of these fans for the first time.

 

The bigger names at the time were Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett, Booker T, Scott Steiner, and of course, Bill Goldberg. Most of these superstars were going over their matches or just cutting it up with their buddies. The scene was pretty relaxed. Then out of the corner of my eye, I spotted “The Man” standing by the guardrail towards the curtain by himself holding a cup of coffee. He was all alone and kept looking around the arena as if to soak it all in. I thought to myself, it's now or never. Somehow I got the courage to get up and go do an interview with the best this industry has ever seen. I quickly introduced myself and pulled out my pad of paper to ask him some questions about the tour.

 

All I can remember is how nervous I was and how calm Ric seemed to be. Dressed in his Sunday's finest, Flair answered all the questions I had for him. I felt like I was 5 years old again and wanted to stick out the pad of paper to get an autograph, but I didn't want to seem too unprofessional. Then, I just stopped, put the paper back in my pocket and got a chance to tell him how much he has meant to the business and to myself personally. I totally marked out and I didn't give damn. This was Ric Flair. I ended our conversation by telling him that it was an absolute honor to have the time to speak with him and something I will never forget. He then thanked me and told me that it meant a lot to him. I did it! That was my Ric Flair moment that will stay with me forever.

 

The other time I ran into Flair, he was with the WWE in Chicago. I was having some drinks at a hotel bar after attending a live Raw broadcast. In comes Ric Flair with suit and tie, flanked by a dozen hot women and Dean Malenko. Talk about living the gimmick! I smiled and thought to myself, Flair is still the MAN! Unfortunately, Ric was a little to busy to talk to me on this night and I didn't blame him one bit. In fact, I was hoping to join his entourage.

 

Thank you Ric Flair. Thanks for entertaining us for the last thirty plus years. Thank you for the class you brought to the squared circle. Thank you for The Four Horseman. Thank you for the 16 World Title runs you had. Thanks for the Figure Four Leglock. Thank you for the blood, sweat, and tears you dropped in every corner of the world. Thank you, we will miss you, but the show must go on. Because like you said time and time again, whether we like it, or we don't, we gotta learn to live with it because it's the best thing going today. Thanks for the memories!

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In the future, please provide a link to the artice instead of c/p someone else's content.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Is this the wrong place to request a picture of Batman bringing flowers to the grave of Ric Flair's career?

 

...

 

[dubq 0]

If I had the PSD here at work I'd totally post one for you bps.. ;P

 

That said, what does Flair do now? Is this an ACTUAL end to his career? Or will there be "one more match" every few months? Does he leave wrestling altogether? Become the GM of Smackdown? Stick around as a manager for someone?

 

Personally, I still think Flair was enjoyable to watch in the ring. He didn't age like Hogan or any of those other guys who went past their prime. I really think he could've gone a least a couple more years before really retiring. That said, if he's not going to wrestle (full-time) anymore, I still want him on my tv. The guy is a master promo-cutter so he HAS to be kept around in some capacity, IMO. I vote GM of Smackdown. Long & Guerrero are nothing special, anyway, IMO.

[Enigma 0]

Flair said that when he's done, he's done. No more one night returns or "fake retirements like Foley's". Flair knows that coming back to work another match would be completely tarnish the WM24 moment.

[garfieldsnose 0]

I think the fact that he was crying even before the match ended signified this was for real.

[NoCalMike 0]

He has wrestled virtually the same match the last fifteen years, however before that point, yeah he basically deserves all the praise he gets.

[sluggo 0]

I would've loved to see 1 more Sting/Flair match not on the final episode of Nitro.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Another Flair/Sting match would have been cool. But I kind of like that the last time they did it it was the last match in the history of their company. That's the way it should be.

[sluggo 0]

Another Flair/Sting match would have been cool. But I kind of like that the last time they did it it was the last match in the history of their company. That's the way it should be.

 

Yeah

 

Sting/Flair @ Clash Of The Champions 1 was my favorite match growing up.

[Perfection 0]

Flair said that when he's done, he's done. No more one night returns or "fake retirements like Foley's". Flair knows that coming back to work another match would be completely tarnish the WM24 moment.

 

I'm so glad he says this. As much as I love Flair, I don't want to see him wrestle one more match for the very reason you mention....it would take something away from last night's match, and I don't want that. And how about when Flair was asked about whether he thinks his match should have been last and he said he strongly disagreed with that since the world titles/matches mean more than anything. Talk about pure class. As powell remarked over at prowrestling.net, you think Hogan would think and feel the same way if he was having his last match? lol

 

 

[Guest Hasbeen2]

He has wrestled virtually the same match the last fifteen years, however before that point, yeah he basically deserves all the praise he gets.

 

 

That's the match the fans expected and he gave it to them.

[dubq 0]

Not trying to start anything with this, but does anyone know if Flair has problems with Diabetes or anything like that? I was just watching his 2001 return to the WWF as "co-owner" and comparing his face now, to then, it looks like he's aged about 15 years since then (7 years ago). The reason I ask about Diabetes, is that I remember Johnny Cash aging similarly. One year he looked his actual age at the time, but then a few years later it looked like he was pushing 100.