King of The Ring

[King Kamala 0]

I was going to start a townhall type thread but I'm feeling too lazy to come up with questions. So let's talk about The King of The Ring tournament, your favorite moments, your least favorite moments.

 

Personally, having seen all of the King of The Ring PPVs, my favorite tournament is still the first. You had Bret Hart having ***+ matches in one night and almost every guy in the tournament (except Duggan and maybe Mr. Hughes) had a conceivable shot at winning the whole thing. '94 would be a close second. To be perfectly honest, I thought after the first two, the tournaments kind of sucked for the most part. It's like it came the afterthought to its own card.

 

Just for a whim, I'll rank the PPV tournaments (I don't think very many, even on the IWC, have seen the old one-night house show King of The Rings though I know there's a fan cam of at least of one of them).

 

1. 1993

2. 1994

3. 1996

4. 2001

5. 1997

6. 2000

7. 2002

8. 1998

9. 1999

10. 1995

 

#4-8 are really interchangable. It's obvious what the top two are and bottom two are but after that it gets muddled.

[Dandy 0]

I was going to start a townhall type thread but I'm feeling too lazy to come up with questions.

Disappointment.

[King Kamala 0]

Alright, alright, here are some.

 

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

 

5. Least favorite?

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I'll take a shot at some of these except #2 b/c I've been watching WWE off and on since '02 (with 2005 being the only year between then and now that I watched all the way through)

 

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

 

Having just the semis allows for a bit better match quality because not all of your wrestlers are going to get gassed and the card doesn't feel as rushed. However, I prefer to have the quarters, semis, and finals all in one night with the qualifying matches being contested on the television broadcasts leading up to the event.

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

 

If Austin had not won then we never would have gotten the "Austin 3:16" promo versus Jake Roberts and the push of credibility Austin needed to escape the "Ringmaster" character that he was with Ted DiBiase. Austin beating Mero was big in the semis as his early rounds matchups were unimpressive (Bob Holly and Savio Vega) and Mero was still undefeated at that point in the WWF. Also, Austin demolished Roberts in the final and began molding himself into the character that he'd become.

 

With HHH I think it helped establish him after a terrible mid/late-1996 jobbing streak due to the MSG incident. There was no one else in the tournament that year who really needed/could have won since Ahmed was beginning to lose his feud with the Nation by that point, Lawler was a joke entry, and Mankind being king didn't make very much sense. HHH wouldn't get over huge until 1999 and DX was still several months away but the KOTR victory advanced his first feud with Mankind and started to show the ruthlessness HHH would start to craft into his persona (especially with Chyna backing him up)

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

 

As far as the tournament, Bret Hart's match against Perfect in the '93 semis was very good. I also enjoy Austin's promo versus Jake Roberts in '96 and loved when Shamrock made the Rock tap out in the '98 finals. Also, as an IRS mark I liked his push to the semis in '94 before jobbing to Ramon.

 

5. Least favorite?

 

The b.s. time limit draw between Luger and Tatanka in '93.

 

Mabel's run through the whole 1995 tournament. The only guy he should have beaten was Adam Bomb.

[Aero 0]

Considering the WWF was on such a roll with good PPVs in 2000, it was pretty shocking to have KOTR 2000 turn out as bad as it did. Sure, there was some crap in there (main event and evening gown match), but that tournament could've been great. You have Eddie, Benoit, Angle/Jericho in it, and only one of them makes it to the second round? They should have just had Jericho advance to the finals to face Angle because there would have actually been a good amount of suspense.

 

 

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

I prefer quarterfinals on PPV, but the problem is that WWE usually sucks at putting together full, one night tournaments. 1993 and 1994 were both good enough, but 1995, 2000, and 1999 were awful. When someone wins the tournament from just the semi-finals onward, it's simply not as "arduous" as winning three matches in one night.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

I'd say better, if only because I don't think the KOTR really built too many guys. I'd say it had a major hand in building Owen (although one could argue he was already set after his WM win), Austin, and maybe Edge, but that's about it. It made Austin by giving him his catchphrase and pushing him to the next level. Edge finally became a singles star shortly following his win, although I think he could've done fine without it.

 

While it helped Mabel get to the main event scene for a while, he wasn't even around for an entire year following his win. In fact, his win only really amounted to a failed push and a feud with Taker. To me, HHH didn't really do much with the win either. He was already in the upper mid-card as far as I was concerned. Brock was going to be pushed anyway, so the tournament really seemed like an afterthought for him other than getting him a title shot at Summerslam, which could've been done in a different fashion.

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

It's tough to say, but I think he would've been about the same, minus his catchphrase. I don't think the WWF would've given up on him. He hardly had any feuds before Bret Hart anyway, so I think there's a good chance he would've gotten the Bret feud anyway. He already had the Stone Cold character down before KOTR.

 

I assume the HHH part is a 'What if he won in 1996?' He definitely would've probably gotten the IC Title quicker, but I don't think his win would've amounted to a main event run much quicker.

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

Bret vs. Perfect, King Mabel getting pelted with garbage, Austin's coronation, HBK vs. Austin, Mankind being thrown off the cage, Steve Blackman ALMOST main eventing in 1999, Shane going through the KOTR glass.

 

5. Least favorite?

The entire 1995 PPV (minus garbage pelting), Art Donovan, most of the 1999 and 2000 PPVs, the Taker-DDP brawl, and a HORRIBLE Taker-HHH match.

 

 

[Lil' Bitch 0]

1993 was my favorite KOTR.

 

KOTR should've been kept as a PPV with the quarter-finals being included. The KOTR victory feels more epic when a guy wins because of the endurance factor.

 

Angle Vs. McMahon is probably my favorite non-KOTR tournament match. It was really good.

 

The worst moment was Billy Gunn being a KOTR. At least Mabel's win was believable because he was fucking huge!

 

I also hate it when a guy was crowned and it didn't result in a main event push during that year (Austin, HHH, Shamrock, and Edge) since I always thought that was the point of being KOTR. Ahmed being eliminated in 1996 always pissed me off and I hated how HHH won the 1997 tournament since he got eliminated to begin with, but they let him back in, that was bullshit!

[Guest]

HHH was let back in because he threatened to sue. Those damn Greenwichers.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

 

 

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

I like it to be an eight-man one-night affair.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

They built Noble and Lesnar, which was pretty awesome.

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

Austin would have broken though. They tried to do nothing with him for a couple of months after that, and it had no effect on him. HHH was different. His KOTR win would not have mean anything if it weren't for Shawn going to bat for him. KOTR victories don't really mean that much.

 

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

"Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!"

 

5. Least favorite?

The entire 1995 schema. Four Savio Vega matches? In on night???

 

[Guest]

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

 

Depends on the field. If you've got a shitty field, obviously you shouldn't show the quarters. I'm in favor of showing the semis on, myself. Makes for better wrestling as you don't have guys coming out there more than twice, which is obviously a good thing.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

 

I'm going to take this question at face value, and say no. No, I don't think they've been better at building superstars. A lot of people forget that the King of the Ring wasn't used to build guys, but rather used to tack on an accomplishment to their already budding resume and nothing more. As stated, the only guys who were "made" by King of the Ring were Owen and Austin. Well, I take that back. Owen wasn't "made" by King of the Ring, he was already being pushed at that level, although KotR showed that Owen really was on Bret's level, and that his win at WM X definitely was not a fluke. I suppose that's up for debate.

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

 

Austin's career definitely would've taken some sort of different route. You don't get the promo, you don't get that defining moment that helped launch his character to stardom. The promo following the KotR victory was made more of than the actual King of the Ring victory, but that's fine. At least King of the Ring gave him that platform to I don't know, show what he had to the WWF audience.

 

HHH's career wasn't affected at all by winning it.

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

 

Obviously the Austin 3:16 promo, KING OF HARTS, Mr. Ass winning...ok, I lied about that last part. As for non-King of the Ring moments which took place on the actual PPV itself, um, Shane McMahon going through the glass, Hulk Hogan jobbing to Yokozuna, and I liked when Kurt Angle made Hogan tap out.

 

Of course, Foley flying off the cell was great too.

 

5. Least favorite?

 

Uh, entirety of King of the Ring 1995 and 1999, THE BRIEFCASE, Mr. Ass, the WWF Title changing hands during a tag match in 2000. I really hate when that happens.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Being a KOTR may not have done anything noticeable to HHH's career, but the results of it indirectly shaped his career forever. He won the tournament by beating Mankind, which started a feud between the two which culminated with the Cactus Jack persona debuting on Raw in a hardcore match in MSG. That match was used as a key story point for the Foley/HHH match at the 2000 Royal Rumble, and the match at the Rumble cemented HHH's place as a main eventer.

[Diamonddust 0]

On top of Austin's win in '96, if I remember correctly... didn't he have to get stitched up before the match with Mero? Or did he get busted open in that one, and have to get stitched up before the match with Roberts?

[King Kamala 0]

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on? Ideally, I'd show the quarterfinals, semis and finals but that format really only worked in '93 and '94. Every other year, it felt rushed. But yeah, if I had to pick to I'd say from the quarterfinals on.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse? Eh, probably a bit better but I'm not sure if it has much at all to do with the KOTR. The King of The Ring only really built one guy every year. How many 2nd place KOTR guys can you remember?

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?Austin wouldn't have had that definitive promo. But I think he was too charismatic to be a midcarder for the rest of his WWF stint and was already sort of on his way so it didn't effect him all that much.

 

KOTR rescued Helmsley from the doldrums of the midcard but who else were they going to give it to that year? I think his ensuing feud with Mankind did more for him than the KOTR win over Mankind itself.

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories? Like I mentioned Bret Hart's three matches at the first PPV. The pre-match promo with Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect at the same PPV. Owen Hart Vs 123 Kid at KOTR '94. Austin's post match promo after winning the tournament. The retarded kid falling over the barricade during HBK/Austin at KOTR '97 (sorry, I'm going to hell).

 

5. Least favorite? The entire 1995 and 1999 PPVs.

[JJMc 0]

"Gorilla Monsoon along with Randy Savage, and joining us tonight, from the Baltimore Colts, Art O'DONNELL."

 

"How much does this fella weigh?"..."Can't quite hear ya, Art!"

 

"Who do you think is gonna win this thing, Art?"...."Razor Ramon, of course I'm an old Hulk Hogan man myself." (days after he first appeared in WCW. whoops).

 

 

 

 

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

That's slightly mixed up. It was the mayor (or some sort of semi-important person) of Baltimore that mentioned being an old Hulkamaniac when Todd Pettengill interviewed him in the audience. But yes, Art Donovan's commentary is legendary.

[Diamonddust 0]

King of the Ring '96 should be a leading example of why 100% scripted promos can stunt the growth and development of your talent. You sometimes have to let them come up with their own stuff like the "Austin 3:16" line. Also, from a completely economic standpoint, without Austin winning King of the Ring '96... you lose all the merchandise sold from that one promo: The Austin 3:16 shirts and everything else.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Since no one has bothered to do it yet, here's the list of annual winners (starting with the "modern" version of the event). I'll include my quick thoughts on each winner:

 

Year Winner

1993 Bret Hart

- Kind of re-established Bret Hart as a main event player, and established the crediblity of the event, so this was a good one.

 

1994 Owen Hart

- Pretty much the biggest example of the tournament "making someone." Owen took this gimmick then, and ran with it as "The King of Harts". Possibly the most successful one in terms of actually doing something for the winner.

 

1995 Mabel

- The one everyone wants to forget...Big Daddy V isn't even really acknowledged as a former KotR winner, even though he's clearly the same guy. Probably the biggest disaster of a KotR winner, as no one wanted to see him in the main event scene.

 

1996 Steve Austin

- Another huge one...Austin would have gone on to main event many Wrestlemanias regardless, but we wouldn't have had Austin 3:16 without this event.

 

1997 Hunter Hearst Helmsley

- Kind of a rubber stamp "Yes, everyone knows he's moving up, and was supposed to win last year, so let's get this over with", sort of win in my view. At least it lead to his feud with Foley that brought back Cactus Jack.

 

1998 Ken Shamrock

- Holy cow, I didn't even remember this one. Looking back, he actually beat the Rock to win it, too. I don't know if I don't remember this because the "crash TV" style booking was all over this, or just the fact that Shamrock has basically been erased from WWE history. I don't think you can say this really did anything for Shamrock, and he was basically gone from WWF about a year later, to pursue MMA again.

 

1999 Billy Gunn

- Probably the second biggest disaster other than Mabel. Gunn didn't have it to make it as a main eventer in WWF. One short feud with the Rock later, and he was back in the midcard scene.

 

2000 Kurt Angle

- A pretty good one. Angle would have kept moving up regardless, but they actually did some good stuff with this. I'll never forget Angle coming out on RAW wearing his crown and robe, and Mick Foley laughing hysterically at him. Notable for the fact that this tournament had 32 competitors.

 

2001 Edge

- Another one I honestly couldn't remember. Rarely mentioned as one of Edge's achievements now, so pretty forgettable, in my opinion. Didn't really immediately propel Edge to the upper card like it should have.

 

2002 Brock Lesnar

- Actually a pretty good one. Lesnar definitely had the cred to win the tournament, and it cemented him in the main event scene.

 

2006 Booker T

- Another success. This was Smackdown exclusive, which was probably a good idea at the time. King Booker was definitely a good character, and helped freshen up Booker T, big time.

[Diamonddust 0]

Shamrock's '98 win got TOTALLY overshadowed by the Hell in the Cell match. I had forgotten about it as well.

[Jonathon 0]

I enjoyed the 98 one, just because during that tournament, you could physically SEE the Rock turning from heel to a face throughout the night.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

1998 Ken Shamrock

- Holy cow, I didn't even remember this one. Looking back, he actually beat the Rock to win it, too. I don't know if I don't remember this because the "crash TV" style booking was all over this, or just the fact that Shamrock has basically been erased from WWE history. I don't think you can say this really did anything for Shamrock, and he was basically gone from WWF about a year later, to pursue MMA again.

 

I think Ken won that year to give final closure to The Rock/Shamrock feud, since the WWF didnt want to put the IC belt on Shamrock.

[cabbageboy 0]

Shamrock did get the IC title though in early 1999, didn't he? Of course that belt was passed around so much during that era that I can't recall.

[King Kamala 0]

I think Ken Shamrock is the one KOTR winner where the KOTR win had absolutely no effect-positive or negative on his wrestling career. He was a midcarder before winning it and he was a mid-carder after.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Shamrock did get the IC title though in early 1999, didn't he? Of course that belt was passed around so much during that era that I can't recall.

 

Shamrock eventually got a IC title run, but they didn't want to take the belt away from Rock at that point in time... They wanted to build HHH/Rock for the IC belt, because HHH was more over as a face then Shamrock was.

 

Of course thats only my theory.

[Guest]

I think Ken won that year to give final closure to The Rock/Shamrock feud

That's exactly right. It was one way to move him from Rock to a feud with Owen without making him look like a total bitch and just dropping the Rock thing after falling short so many times.

 

Obviously things were going to move towards Nation vs. DX. You've gotta have the leaders of both factions fighting for a belt, so...

[strummer 0]

I have an unexplainable love for KOTR 98. I used to watch it all the time on tape during freshman year of college (well during summer break going into Sophomore year).

 

There's nothing on the show that's great and it's not even because of HIAC. I think it was just that I was so into wrestling again for the first time in nearly a decade (not that I didn't watch during the down years because I obviously did) that it was like reuniting with an old friend.

 

I remember the next day I was online for an eternity reading reactions from the show (this was pre-Meltzer on the net don't forget) and being psyched for the Austin-Kane rematch on RAW.

 

The net was just crazy then

[King Kamala 0]

I kind of like KOTR '98 too but I'll be damned if I can remember anything about the tournament itself. Well except Triple saying "I'm bi a lot of things but lingual is not one of them" while guest commentating during the finals.

 

 

[Diamonddust 0]

I have an unexplainable love for KOTR 98. I used to watch it all the time on tape during freshman year of college (well during summer break going into Sophomore year).

 

There's nothing on the show that's great and it's not even because of HIAC. I think it was just that I was so into wrestling again for the first time in nearly a decade (not that I didn't watch during the down years because I obviously did) that it was like reuniting with an old friend.

 

I remember the next day I was online for an eternity reading reactions from the show (this was pre-Meltzer on the net don't forget) and being psyched for the Austin-Kane rematch on RAW.

 

The net was just crazy then

 

Same here. I remember being so into Raw that next time, especially the Austin/Kane rematch. I'll never forget Paul Bearer's facial reactions as Austin beat Kane that night.

[cabbageboy 0]

KOTR 98 was an amazingly well built PPV in terms of the stuff leading up to it and it only kept building to a bigger crescendo for SS that year. This is the main PPV from 1998 that I truly regret not getting at the time. I was very into the storylines and the next night they showed the HIAC highlights and I was like "Whoa, I missed THAT??" The July PPV was just filler, but SummerSlam I made sure to actually order.

 

KOTR 98 was also a hard tape to find at Blockbuster. In fact I rented it one time only to have the tape malfunction and break in the VCR!

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Owen Hart's win is my most favorite of them all, his King of Harts gimmick was amazing, suited his character so well. It helped add fuel to the fire of the Bret/Owen feud too.

 

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

Personally didn't mind how much was shown QF on or SF on, as long as it had a good build up. There were some KotRs that just seemed to drag on as a PPV, while others had grabbed my attention on TV and I wanted to see it all. I remember 1998 being a good build up. In a strange contrast, 1994 wasn't really built up at all, however I enjoyed it for what it was as the matches were decent, and the Bret Hart/Lawler feud had carried over from last year. Infact, the whole 1994 year was a nicely booked year to establish the Owen Hart character.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

Well, I don't think its been any worse then its ever been really, sure KotR has been a good launching pad for some stars over the years (Rock, Austin, Owen Hart, Brock Lesnar). Though its certainly a great platform to try and establish a star on.

 

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I remember buying a video tape series of all of the 1998 PPV's, just to get KOTR 1998 a couple of years back... KOTR 1998 was a very hard tape to find.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

1. How much of the tournament should be shown on the PPV? Quarterfinals on? Semi-finals on?

 

Quarters on. The tournament is what differentiates it from any other PPV. Only going with the Semi Finals on is like having the Royal Rumble with 1 minute intervals. It cuts down on the drama and makes it seem like less of an accomplishment for the winner. It also makes nearly every match seem important. Nearly every KOTR PPV with only the two rounds has had a bunch of heatless filler elsewhere. Now granted the WWF has had trouble booking longer tournaments, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a problem with the concept.

 

2. Since the last KOTR PPV in 2002, do you think the WWE has been better at building young superstars? Worse?

 

Worse, but this is one area which isn't entirely their fault. Quite frankly the younger talent isn't simply nearly as good as the performers a decade ago. Whether this is because of a lack of competition or simply because it is a down period is an answer I don't have. Regardless, even before 2002 the KOTR wasn't that important in building up new talent. Owen Hart was made at Wrestlemania X. Steve Austin was turned into a star because of the Bret Hart feud which was months after KOTR. Brock Lesnar's big moment was at Summerslam against the Rock. HHH was turned into a name by DX and made credible in the MSG Street Fight against Foley. KOTR is a step in the right direction, but its importance is overstated. The one who benefitted the most was Mable who instantly went from midcard joke to the main event, but he sucked so it flopped.

 

3. If Steve Austin hadn't won the '96 King of The Ring, how would it have effected his career? What if Triple H hadn't won in '97?

 

Austin's KOTR win gave him some momentum, but the character change really occurred after he ditched Dibiase. He then spent the rest of the summer afterwards doing virtually nothing until Hart returned in the fall and he was turned into a legend. There is at least an argument there though. I don't see how KOTR had any lasting impact on HHH at all. He is a case of someone who got pushed first and got over later.

 

4. What are some of your favorite King of The Ring memories?

 

- Bret Hart vs. Curt Hennig in 93

- Hulkamania dies against Yokozuna

- Jim Neidhart returns, helps Owen Hart win the tournament

- Austin destroys Jake Roberts to win the crown

- Angle's three matches in 2001 against Christian, Edge & Shane McMahon

 

5. Least favorite?

 

- Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Eddy Guerrero all go down in the first round in 2000

- Also from 2000, the Patterson/Brisco match

- 1999: 7 Tournament Matches, 2 Clean Finishes

- King Mabel

- King Ass

- Savio Vega defeating IRS, Yokozuna & Road Dog in one evening. Any of them is bad enough, but Yoko in particular should have destroyed him.