2008 Stanley Cup playoffs - round deux

[CanadianChris 0]

Habs are starting Halak tonight. Panic much?

[Nightwing 0]

@ CDub: Drink!

 

Then again, I thought they were on the power play before the penalty. Philly just wasn't moving at all. This might motivate them a bit...

[the pinjockey 0]

This is fucking ridiculous.

 

Briere gets boarded and it isn't called (it was touchy so I wasn't really pissed), then Richards gets called for boarding without the guy he hit actually touching the boards?!?

 

I don't know how anyone can possibly say the Flyers aren't playing 7-5 here with a straight face.

[Zetterberg is God 0]

Babcock, Boudreau and Carbonneau nominated for coach of the year. I'm very surprised and obviously pleased to see Babcock get a nom. He's definitely deserving but I figured he had no chance with the high number of possible candidates this year.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Habs are starting Halak tonight. Panic much?

 

Yes, and rightfully. No reason for us to be losing this series - poor officiating in our favour only scrapes that surface.

Nightwing, do I count as a CDub? I'm drinking already anyway.

Babcock is a bit of a surprise - I think Julien should have been the third.

 

 

Shit, Flyers PP coming up.

 

Edit: What the fuck? McKenzie bros. Theme at Wachovia when the Habs commit a penalty?

[the max 0]

Babcock, Boudreau and Carbonneau nominated for coach of the year. I'm very surprised and obviously pleased to see Babcock get a nom. He's definitely deserving but I figured he had no chance with the high number of possible candidates this year.

 

Julien had better have been fourth in the voting.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Agreed. Babcock? I could have coached the Red Wings to a first-place finish in the Central this year.

 

And I'm a Habs fan, so clearly I know shit about hockey. Fuckin Biron. He came up in a sweet-nothing conversation with my ex a few years ago, as if I needed more reasons to hate him.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I'm speechless

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Even with the last five minutes in mind, I don't wanna be too 'sour grapes' here, but have the Habs battled for a loose puck all spring?

[garfieldsnose 0]

Now comes the typical Flyers fan scared thought....if they go back to Carey Price for Game 5, does he put together a streak to bring back the Habs? I honestly hope not. Let's end it Saturday, boys. Please. For my heart's sake.

[C Dubya 04 0]

Yay Flyers!

 

I actually thought that was a fairly well called game. Richards boarding was questionable, and there was definitely a cheap knee thrown the other way, but nothing too bad.

 

The last 7 minutes were quite a roller coaster too.

 

If you're scared Joey, get a dog!

[treble 0]

Carbonneau makes some weird goalie choices. Remember last year when he started Huet over Halak in the last game of the season, even though Huet hadn't started in almost 2 months?

[Nightwing 0]

Agreed. Babcock? I could have coached the Red Wings to a first-place finish in the Central this year.

 

Of course, could you have absolutely dominated all opponents outside of your division? I mean, they won the President's Trophy (Not just their division) despite their weaker record against the Central.

 

Just sayin'...

 

And weren't people here saying Philly wasn't going to be in the playoffs at the start of the season? I'm not sure how long Biron's good graces are going to last, but he might carry them to the finals if he can keep up his momentum. Of course, the rest of the team is going to have to step up a bit as well.

 

Now let's see if the Sharks can keep this one goal lead, or if they truly are gutless wonders. I think they actually might take this game especially with some of the sloppiness Dallas is showing.

[Red Baron 0]

As much as I am disappointed to see the Habs lose again, I can't be mad. Biron has been playing with a horseshoe up his ass this entire series and certainly carried the Flyers in what would possibly been a sweep for the Habs. (If Nittamaky was in net, I'd assume he'd be in the 5.00 GAA).

 

 

This comes in no shock to see the three coaches nominated for the Jack Adams.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Agreed. Babcock? I could have coached the Red Wings to a first-place finish in the Central this year.

 

Of course, could you have absolutely dominated all opponents outside of your division? I mean, they won the President's Trophy (Not just their division) despite their weaker record against the Central.

 

Just sayin'...

 

And weren't people here saying Philly wasn't going to be in the playoffs at the start of the season? I'm not sure how long Biron's good graces are going to last, but he might carry them to the finals if he can keep up his momentum. Of course, the rest of the team is going to have to step up a bit as well.

 

Now let's see if the Sharks can keep this one goal lead, or if they truly are gutless wonders. I think they actually might take this game especially with some of the sloppiness Dallas is showing.

 

 

 

 

Well, fuck you, just sayin. Claude Julien took an AHL team to the playoffs, against the New York Yankees of the NHL. Just sayin. And this is from a HABS fan - defending the Bruins!

 

I thought Philly might sneak into the playoffs, but I didn't see them with a 3-1 lead at this stage, regardless of who they were matched up against.

 

 

Edit: It'd be awfully nice to change the countdown in my sig.

[Nightwing 0]

Well, fuck you, just sayin. Claude Julien took an AHL team to the playoffs, against the New York Yankees of the NHL. Just sayin. And this is from a HABS fan - defending the Bruins!

 

Babcock does deserve to be there. I mean, this isn't like Ron Wilson, where he has so much talent that they can underperform for most of the year and then charge into the playoffs. Babcock kept the Wings consistent; the only time they really lost was when their number one defenseman was Brett Lebda, and even then it took a few odd bounces to do it. I understand the woes of the Bruins, but lets face facts: When Dave Lewis was your last coach, the only way you can go is up. Julien deserves a nod, and I said as much. Just don't dump on Babcock's excellence this year. Without that injury streak, they might have gotten to 60 wins. That's all I'm asking.

 

... And just how many drinks have you had tonight?

 

[Red Baron 0]

Leave Tobias out of it, he's fairly drunk probably and passed out on the couch wallowing this Habs defeat.

 

 

 

Interesting fact. The past three teams to knock out the Montreal Canadiens in the playoffs has gone on to go to the Stanley Cup, the past two have won the cup.

[the max 0]

I agree that Dave Lewis was a shitty coach, but Julien took a team with really two consistantly above-average players and led them into the playoffs despite finishing top 5 in the league in man-games lost to injury. He made the playoffs with ALEX AULD making consecutive starts on multiple occasions, the corpse that is Glen Murray invisible all season, no Bergeron or Fernandez all season, and lacking the top talent that most teams have. One above-average player on offense (Savard) and one on defense (Chara). That's it. To make the playoffs with that team and not even be nominated over a guy like Babcock who could basically pull unbelievable line combos out of his ass and still make the playoffs? Hmmm...Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski...seriously? Oh but since he played shitty against his own division, let's reward him? With that talent, I'd expect him to win the fucking President's Trophy.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

As much as I am disappointed to see the Habs lose again, I can't be mad. Biron has been playing with a horseshoe up his ass this entire series and certainly carried the Flyers in what would possibly been a sweep for the Habs. (If Nittamaky was in net, I'd assume he'd be in the 5.00 GAA).

 

Gotta agree with you there. I'm not so much mad that the Habs are down 3-1, but urked that Philly gets every break that matters in evey game after game 1.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Now that I'm sober, having just woken up: I still think Julien should have been the third nominee, but Nightwish, sorry for saying fuck you.

 

A friend of mine who's a Leafs fan texted me from a concert she was at and asked for updates last night - after the game, we discussed what a rough week it'd been for me sports-wise, with the Raptors and likely the Habs being eliminated, and the Jays losing seven of eight. Couple this with having to look forward to the Raiders.....eee.

 

For some reason, she kept insisting on knowing the price of gas in Calgary.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Regarding the three coaches ... damn Western Conf bias keeping my boy Julien down. It must be tough for Babcock to find a way to win with the All Star starter in net, the 5-time Norris winner on the blue-line, and talentless hacks like Zetterberg (only 43 goals!) and Datsyuk (only 97 points!) up front. Put Julien behind the Wings bench, and they still win the President's (IMHO) ... put Babcock behind the bench in Boston, and the team starts golfing two weeks earlier.

 

And in terms of Halak v. Price (and, technically, v. Tuuka Rask) ... so many Habs fans were quick to point out that Rask hadn't done anything on the NHL-level yet, where-as Price had, so it was obvious that Price was the better long-term goaltending option. I'll be the first to agree that he played very well in the regular season, but he was given a gift in the first round (playing against an offensively challenged Bruins team) and now has been pulled in the second round. I think it might be a bit premature to say that Price being the better long-term goalie is a no-brainer, as some Habs fans wanted to declare. And benching him in favor of Halak? Way to help the kid's confidence, Carboneau! As a B's fan, please do as much as you can to jerk the kid around ... if given the choice of him being the next Theodore or the next Dryden, I'd prefer the former, plz & thx.

[Red Baron 0]

Hey at least Rask has an opportunity. Pogge is going to be dwelling in the minors for a few more years.

 

I understand the move that Carbs made. 90% of the goals scored on him in this series was the glove side, and these were very makeable saves. I remember they might have pulled Roy in the 93 Finals against the Nords because of the first two games he had were shaky, can you just imagine if Montreal started Andre Racicot for the playoffs?

[CanadianChris 0]

Hey at least Rask has an opportunity. Pogge is going to be dwelling in the minors for a few more years.

 

I understand the move that Carbs made. 90% of the goals scored on him in this series was the glove side, and these were very makeable saves. I remember they might have pulled Roy in the 93 Finals against the Nords because of the first two games he had were shaky, can you just imagine if Montreal started Andre Racicot for the playoffs?

Yeah, either hockey is saved in Quebec City because they win the Cup instead of Montreal, or Gretzky gets his Cup in LA, given how everything else played out.

[Nightwing 0]

Regarding the three coaches ... damn Western Conf bias keeping my boy Julien down. It must be tough for Babcock to find a way to win with the All Star starter in net, the 5-time Norris winner on the blue-line, and talentless hacks like Zetterberg (only 43 goals!) and Datsyuk (only 97 points!) up front. Put Julien behind the Wings bench, and they still win the President's (IMHO) ... put Babcock behind the bench in Boston, and the team starts golfing two weeks earlier.

 

Hell, why not just put Barry Trotz? Or any other coach that had injuries? Hell, any coach. Coaches don't matter when you have the talent the Red Wings have.

 

Wait a second, that's not right. If that's true, shouldn't San Jose already have beaten Dallas since they are obviously far more talented? Or Anaheim beaten Dallas, like just about every analyst was saying? Or Ottawa won at least one game against Pittsburgh? What a fucking stupid statement, man. Talent doesn't get you anywhere without good coaching. Again, I point you to Dave Lewis. Could it be possible that the Red Wings have been able to elevate their game due to great coaching? I'd point to Cleary's development for one, and I doubt Franzen would have developed like he has recently under a different coach. Babcock would have them on the golf course? Yeah, fuck off. The Western Conference Coaches disagree with you. Julien has had a few decent years with the Habs and took over a New Jersey team whose strategies haven't changed since the early 1990s. He's not the next coaching God. max, do you remember you reaction to his hire?

 

The rumor mill now has Claude Julien being hired for the Bruins vacancy. That's great. The guy who preaches defensive hockey more than Dave Lewis.

 

I DON'T FUCKING GET IT, CHIARELLI.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=211214&hubName=main

 

I'm going to go try to drown myself in the shower.

 

I'd rather have Milbury. At least he has a fucking pulse behind the fucking bench. They get rid of the defensive minded coach with little regard for rookie playing time and a boring system and replace him with the motherfucking French-Canadian version of the same fucking coach.

 

Fuck you, God. Fuck you. Guess Chiarelli was too busy on the fucking phone to call the fucking Predators and offer something for Scott fucking Hartnell. Or maybe take a big risk and start offering something for Vokoun so we're not stuck with the fucking beer league all-star Tim Thomas with his Amazing Technicolor Five-Hole next season.

 

The only guys who actually pegged Julien as a decent coach was Redbaron and CG, so I'll give them credit. And I'll give Julien credit for helping the team fight its way into the playoffs (Or maybe they did it without Julien, since you guys are so up on talent carrying teams...). But acting like anyone can win with talent ignores the fact that immensely talented teams go down every year. Just having talent isn't enough to make you great, you have to have the coaching there.

 

max: I pointed out the division because CG's drunken rant suggested that they won because of their division. I showed that they dominated the rest of the west much better. And you undersell Boston; the description you just gave applies better to Nashville than Boston. At least Chara is up for the Norris. Nashville has Arnott and...?

 

In other news:

 

Peter Forsberg will not play for the Avalanche in Game 4 on Thursday. Ryan Smyth will also miss the game. The Avalanche will dress seven defencemen. - TSN

 

It appears Paul Stastny and Ryan Smyth will not play Thursday in Game 4 of the Avs' Western Conference semifinal series with the Detroit Red Wings. Colorado trails 3-0 in the best-of-seven series. Stastny, who has an injured knee, "is unlikely to play tomorrow," said Quenneville, who listed Smith (foot) as being doubtful. - Rocky Mountain News

 

David Jones is still a rookie, so there will come a day when his playoff statistics - nine games, one point - will come in for harsher scrutiny than they are now. But for the time being, Jones is being viewed as one of the few positive stories in the Avalanche's playoff series with Detroit. Last year around this time, Jones was finishing up his spring semester at Dartmouth, just hoping he might latch on with the Avalanche's minor-league affiliate later that fall. Tuesday night, he was one of the Avalanche's top players in a playoff game with the Red Wings. - Denver Post

 

Looks like a sweep tonight.

[the max 0]

Julien has had a few decent years with the Habs and took over a New Jersey team whose strategies haven't changed since the early 1990s. He's not the next coaching God. max, do you remember you reaction to his hire?

 

The rumor mill now has Claude Julien being hired for the Bruins vacancy. That's great. The guy who preaches defensive hockey more than Dave Lewis.

 

I DON'T FUCKING GET IT, CHIARELLI.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=211214&hubName=main

 

I'm going to go try to drown myself in the shower.

 

I'd rather have Milbury. At least he has a fucking pulse behind the fucking bench. They get rid of the defensive minded coach with little regard for rookie playing time and a boring system and replace him with the motherfucking French-Canadian version of the same fucking coach.

 

Fuck you, God. Fuck you. Guess Chiarelli was too busy on the fucking phone to call the fucking Predators and offer something for Scott fucking Hartnell. Or maybe take a big risk and start offering something for Vokoun so we're not stuck with the fucking beer league all-star Tim Thomas with his Amazing Technicolor Five-Hole next season.

 

The only guys who actually pegged Julien as a decent coach was Redbaron and CG, so I'll give them credit. And I'll give Julien credit for helping the team fight its way into the playoffs (Or maybe they did it without Julien, since you guys are so up on talent carrying teams...). But acting like anyone can win with talent ignores the fact that immensely talented teams go down every year. Just having talent isn't enough to make you great, you have to have the coaching there.

 

Great job. Seriously. Take some posts from me being beyond pissed off that Chiarelli had just wasted a season with Hitlerstache and appeared to be falling into the same trouble. As you can see in the second post, I was more pissed off that Chiarelli hadn't gone after Vokoun. And for the record, when I said:

 

hey get rid of the defensive minded coach with little regard for rookie playing time and a boring system and replace him with the motherfucking French-Canadian version of the same fucking coach.

 

I was right. The difference is that the players saw results from Julien's system because it was easier for them to play. He still struggled with playing the kids over the vets except when the vets couldn't do anything. Kessel wasn't scratched until the playoffs, but Murray only missed time due to injuries, he was invisible when he was in the lineup.

 

max: I pointed out the division because CG's drunken rant suggested that they won because of their division. I showed that they dominated the rest of the west much better. And you undersell Boston; the description you just gave applies better to Nashville than Boston. At least Chara is up for the Norris. Nashville has Arnott and...?

 

One of the best mobile defenses in the league? Underrated players like Dumont and Radulov? At least they have a complete line of NHL scoring talent instead of Savard centering Axelsson and Murray. Trotz deserved it as well.

 

I'm still not sold on Babcock being such a great coach to have won a President's Trophy with Hasek playing as well as he did, Lidstrom being Lidstrom and the fucking Swedish national team scoring goals for them.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Nightwing, I like how you quoted me and then made a series of accusations and inquiries towards max. (I don't like how max beat me to the punch and submitted a post while I was typing this up). Having said that, though, I'll give my two cents to some of your questions & comments:

 

Talent doesn't get you anywhere without good coaching. Again, I point you to Dave Lewis. Could it be possible that the Red Wings have been able to elevate their game due to great coaching?

I don't think anyone said that Babcock wasn't a good coach; I think people were saying that he didn't perform one of the three best coaching jobs this past season. Although, it is funny that Lewis was considered a decent coach when he was behind the Wings bench (48 wins each season), but was horrible-behind-horrible when he left that organization. Hmmm, it's almost like the talent made him look better than he really was. Nah, couldn't be that, could it? You get your panties in a bunch because I'd have the audacity to wonder if Babcock would be so successful away from Detroit? The only coach that's been there since Bowman retired is now a punchline! And Babcock had one great season and then one bad season with the Ducks, but has averaged almost 120 points per season. Wow, he must have become a better coach when he left Anaheim. Because talent doesn't help much at all ....... or something.

 

max: I pointed out the division because CG's drunken rant suggested that they won because of their division. I showed that they dominated the rest of the west much better. And you undersell Boston; the description you just gave applies better to Nashville than Boston. At least Chara is up for the Norris. Nashville has Arnott and...?

Did Nashville lose their presumed #1 netminder at game 4 of the season? Did they lose their best all-around forward in October? And were they predicted to finish last in their conference even with those guys? Comparing best player to best player, the Bruins can match up with a lot of teams. But that's not how the game works, it's the talent-level from top to bottom, and Boston doesn't win that comparison against very many teams.

 

And telling me to "fuck off" for thinking that Babcock wouldn't have been successful away from Detroit? That's awesome. I guess the fact that he was only moderately successful before going to Detroit should be ignored. And the fact that their only other coach in the post-Bowman era shit the bed after leaving? Ignore that, too. I guess it's only sensible to presume that Babcock would be as successful elsewhere.

 

EDIT: And I just remembered that Babcock's Stanley Cup Run with the Ducks was as a 6th seed, and on the back of JS Giguere. Oops, I mean Giguere had a great postseason because of how awesome of a coach Babcock is.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

I have a Lundqvist t-shirt jersey on right now. If the Rangers win tonight, I'm considering not removing it until the Rangers season is finished.

[Nightwing 0]

Oh Christ, I'm not quoting that much. I'll just address things in general.

 

nl5xsk1: No, you didn't say he wasn't "good" coach. You just said that Boston would be golfing two weeks earlier with him and implied that he essentially rode his talent to the President's trophy rather than coaching them. I'm sorry that I simply put two and two together there. I won't do it again.

 

I never said Julien (who hasn't been any more successful outside of decent teams than Babcock. New Jersey very similar to Detroit in regards to year-to-year performance.) was a bad coach, either, I just said that Babcock deserved to be up there because he turned them into a ridiculously dominating team that was like that outside of their division and didn't use it as padding like most people normally accuse the Wings of doing. You know, like Dave Lewis did, which is why I brought him up. That, and being there for so damned long gave him a bit of a foot in the door. It still didn't help them much, and I never considered him that good of a coach. His Red Wings record is very padded by the Central Division, and that wasn't the case with Babcock this year. He won everywhere, against teams that were supposed to be more talented than his, no less.

 

And Nashville had injuries (Steve Sullivan, anyone?) along with the firesale that occurred this year. The reason you see players like Dumont and Radulov playing like they are is very much because Trotz knows how to use them. I doubt you'd see the same results with many other coaches. I believe I said in a previous thread that Trotz was another that probably deserved this trophy. Then again, if you look to the poll that I posted, it seems that a sizable amount of NHL coaches seem to think that Babcock is doing a great job coaching, so perhaps you can look to that for some enlightenment.

 

If you want to bring up Giguere, you should also bring up Tim Thomas, who played out of his mind this season and was easily one of the biggest factors in the Bruins success. That would sort of nullify your point, now wouldn't it?

 

max: I don't disagree with you, but they are like that because of Trotz. When it comes to talent, I don't see them being on a much different footing; Trotz just has a great system.

 

Hasek didn't that play well this year, so I'm assuming you mean Osgood. Then again, it seems like everyone believes it was the Wings defense doing it for him (The whole "they only get 20 shots on goal a game" stuff), so take that as you will. I personally think that the mistake-free hockey, incredible discipline, and the development of a lot of the players comes in great part from the coach in charge. Just as you said Julien didn't develop the rookie talent, Babcock has pushed younger players like Cleary and Franzen (and now Helm) to reach their potential.

 

Again, I'm saying that Babcock deserves to be up there. I'm not saying that Julien sucked or anything. Far from it. But I'm saying that Babcock has just as much right to be up there as the others.

[Red Baron 0]

Babcock also had to deal with injuries as well. Hasek, Lindstrom, Datsyuk and a few others left that Red Wings team a combination of old-timers with their sons. To win the division, a conference and the league best team with what had happened should be nominated. Also I think that it has to do with the first coach to win three straight 50 game seasons as a boss probably pushed his tally up higher.

 

But lets face it, Bruce Bordreau is going to win this, am I right?

[Nightwing 0]

Babcock also had to deal with injuries as well. Hasek, Lindstrom, Datsyuk and a few others left that Red Wings team a combination of old-timers with their sons. To win the division, a conference and the league best team with what had happened should be nominated. Also I think that it has to do with the first coach to win three straight 50 game seasons as a boss probably pushed his tally up higher.

 

Well, the Red Wings' injuries were obviously less (I think Boston had somewhere around 360 or so of those man-games in comparison to the Wings' 194) and centered around the month of February. I mean, really, there's no contest; we've really been lucky and even I can admit that.

 

But look at the defensive numbers in comparison to last year and this year. Look at the difference in their play, and how they are getting more and more out of their depth players. The Wings are great not just because of their top players, but how much Babcock gets out of his depth players and the great balance of defense and offense he's put into them.

 

But lets face it, Bruce Bordreau is going to win this, am I right?

 

Him or Carbonneau, which is what you are obviously trying to get me to say.