MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

 

This picture makes me laugh. The fact that they're at a peace rally makes it even better. They don't seem like the usual hippies though, for some reason, and I'd like to see someone try to take that up with them.

 

There's a bunch of updates on the PRIDE English site, just for those interested.

[Lei Tong 0]

Seeing as how I am not that knowledgable when it comes to the straight up stand up game, what do you think of Tyson's chances? If you go by the "this fighter beat this fighter so he has also beaten this fighter" line of thinking, well, if he beat Sapp, which he probably would, than he can beat Hoost. Silly, but it's not the same as MMA. I mean really, I know technically kickboxers are more skilled on their feet, but is there anyone with the sheer power that Tyson has, or can take it, or anyone that can knock him out? I am guessing that K-1's top guy from what I can tell, Bonjavski, would probably get KTFO. Correct me if I'm wrong folks.

As sad as it may be, a broken down Tyson would still defeat most K-1 fighters not skilled and/or smart enough to know how to handle him. Distance would be key in such a fight, esp. considering Tyson's height and K-1's watering down of the clinch.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I want to see Tyson vs Schilt.

[razazteca 0]

I want to see Tyson vs Vitor Belfort.

[AboveAverage484 0]

One thing everyone has to remember is that boxing and K-1 are two entirely different entities. Frans Botha was handily beating Tyson in a boxing a couple years ago, but he's 0-4 in K-1 against B-level fighters.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

One thing everyone has to remember is that boxing and K-1 are two entirely different entities. Frans Botha was handily beating Tyson in a boxing a couple years ago, but he's 0-4 in K-1 against B-level fighters.

I agree, but his fight was the best on the card, against Cyril Abidi. I wasn't a big fan of the tournament as a whole, I mean Musashi made it to the finals but that isn't indicative of his skill or anything. Sefo was fucking around and Aerts was tired. But yeah, Abidi's fight with Botha was a real grudge match. That kick at the end was sweet, and I don't know how good Abidi really is since Rampage knocked him out.

 

Didn't Tyson knock Botha out? I think a great match up for Tyson would be with Le Banner personally. That motherfucker has POWER. Mike Tyson has POWER. Someone will be knocked out with POWER.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

2 Hour Block of UFC on TSN tonight at 12.

 

I hear it is UFC 24: First Defense. Which is inreference to Kevin Randleman's first title defense against Pedro Rizzo. However, before the event started Randleman slipped and fell and the match was called off. From what I hear, it's a good event.

 

Match List:

 

Shonie Carter vs Brad Gumm

 

Scott Adams vs Ian Freeman

 

Jens Pulver vs David Velasquez

 

Tiki Ghosn vs Bob Cook

 

Dave Menne vs Fabiano Iha

 

Lance Gibson vs Jermaine Andre

 

Tedd Williams vs Steve Judson

[Lei Tong 0]

Depite the lack of "name power," on that card, there's some pretty entertaining fights on that card, as well as two "Shoulda, Woulda" guys, Scott Adams & "Crazy" Bob Cook.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Scott Adams vs Ian Freeman

 

Really fun ground fight with Adams being the leglock KING and Freeman teaching "leglock escapes 101". Ultimately, he couldn't escape them all and tapped.

 

Jens Pulver vs David Velasquez

 

Velasquez's face, meet Jens Pulvers fists - you guys will get to know eachother well. Big props to Velasquez for taking that much punishment and this fight made me wish Jens was back in the UFC. Good stand-up action, some really solid strikes and stiff shots from Pulver.

 

Tiki Ghosn vs Bob Cook

 

MOTN IMO. Some good standup and ground work - I wish I taped this.

 

Dave Menne vs Fabiano Iha

 

Pretty boring and uneventful. The most notable thing in this fight? Menne's sideburns.

 

Lance Gibson vs Jermaine Andre

 

SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK (!!!!) knee at the end there. Andre looked DEAD. Pretty boring up to that, but the finish totally made it worthwhile.

 

Tedd Williams vs Steve Judson

 

It was funny to watch this fat guy basically rope-a-dope this ripped guy and then knock him the fuck out.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Carlos Newton was on the front page of the TORONTO SUN along with 9 other guys who were deemed the cities toughest guys. Newton was #5 and there was a lil write up on him.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I agree, but his fight was the best on the card, against Cyril Abidi. I wasn't a big fan of the tournament as a whole, I mean Musashi made it to the finals but that isn't indicative of his skill or anything. Sefo was fucking around and Aerts was tired. But yeah, Abidi's fight with Botha was a real grudge match. That kick at the end was sweet, and I don't know how good Abidi really is since Rampage knocked him out.

 

Abidi is a lot better than many give him credit for. The only thing is he can look really good or really shitty, I mean, he did KO Aerts a couple years ago. He just has a tendency to get out of control and his heart really isn't in some matches.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Carlos Newton was on the front page of the TORONTO SUN along with 9 other guys who were deemed the cities toughest guys. Newton was #5 and there was a lil write up on him.

You can find it at the Toronto Sun website. Just fluff anyway.

 

Okay, I have a question; I know PRIDE didn't announce their matches to the public, but do they at least announce it to the fighters beforehand? If I were to get a notice a week before a fight I wouldn't do it. I mean seriously, do the fighters know they're fighting at least, or are they kept in the dark as well? Not telling the fans is one thing, not telling the fighter who will be participating is another.

 

I just find it hard to believe that a guy like Quinton was able to knock out Abidi. He's vastly improving. I agree about him being really good or really shitty. How would you rank Mirko in his prime versus the best K1 fighters? I imagine he'd rank high, but I'm not quite sure.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I'd rank Mirko as an B+ fighter in his prime. He lost to Hoost three times, he beat Aerts in 2001, but lost to Hug in 2000. He lost to and beat Bernardo in the 1st round, and he fought and beat Le Banner back in '96 when both fighters were still fairly young. Only victory by KO/TKO out of the previously mentioned was against Bernardo. I'd rank him with Filho and Sefo in the B+ category.

 

FYI:

 

A+

Hoost

Aerts

 

A

Hug

 

A-

Bernardo (I may be stretching, but he was VERY dangerous whenever he fought '95-'98)

Le Banner

 

B+

Filho

Sefo

Cro Cop

Greco

 

B

Leko

Hunt

Bonjasy

Ignashov

Holm

Carter Williams

 

B-

Abidi

McDonald

Musashi

Satake (token Japanese fighters)

 

C

Pettas

Skelton

Van Dams

 

and then everybody else, I may be forgetting some fighters, but that's a very rough draft of the K-1 grading system

 

*edit* Screw it, Greco is a B+ and Carter and Holm are B's, and Feitosa is downgraded to unranked. Told you it was rough, I changed my mind five minutes after posting.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I personally think Bonjasky will be higher eventually, and I know that Sapp isn't technically that great, but a victory over Hoost deserves honourable mention, not to mention two.

 

I also think Gary Goodridge should get an honourable mention. He's had some good fights, beat Bernardo, lost a close decision to Hunt, not to mention he's a very aggressive fighter who fears nothing.

 

Since you seem to know K1, where would you rank the best strikers in MMA among those guys? Fedor destroyed Goodridge standing, Wanderlei kneed Quinton to oblivion, and let's not forget Yvel's sick high kick at PRIDE 10 against Gary...

[AboveAverage484 0]

I personally think Bonjasky will be higher eventually, and I know that Sapp isn't technically that great, but a victory over Hoost deserves honourable mention, not to mention two.

 

I hate Sapp as a K-1 fighter, I wish he would fight strictly MMA. His only other win over a name fighter is against Abidi and he was a big pussy against Bonjasky and Cro Cop. If he fought someone like Le Banner or Hunt, guys with good boxing skills, he would get wasted. He got floored by Kimo and Seth Petruzelli in his last fight which is also pretty pathetic. Until he consistently fights B level fighters and beats them he remains unranked.

 

I also think Gary Goodridge should get an honourable mention. He's had some good fights, beat Bernardo, lost a close decision to Hunt, not to mention he's a very aggressive fighter who fears nothing.

 

Goodridge should stick to MMA, his style is too out of control for K-1. He's better than Sapp because he has more control over his punches, and uses knees and kicks, but he still can't hang with the big boys in K-1. His "fight" against Bernardo was a rigged piece of garbage, as he knocked Bernardo down with a punch to the shoulder, tried to hit him again when he was down, and then was awarded the fight by TKO, despite Bernardo getting up immediately afterwards with no signs of damage shown. BTW, Bernardo DESTROYED Gary in the rematch at Inoki Bom-Bay-Ye 2002. As for the fight against Hunt, Hunt fought injured and still managed to win, but Gary did show improvement, albeit the ability not get KTFO'd in the first minute like he did against a Le Banner JAB in the 2002 opening rounds. I like Gary, though, cool guy.

 

Since you seem to know K1, where would you rank the best strikers in MMA among those guys? Fedor destroyed Goodridge standing, Wanderlei kneed Quinton to oblivion, and let's not forget Yvel's sick high kick at PRIDE 10 against Gary...

 

Well I find Fedor similar to Igor striking-wise and Igor got picked apart by Hoost with low-kicks in '99. Wanderlei is too small for K-1, but he did stand and bang with Cro Cop, albeit a Cro Cop that was afraid of takedowns and muay thai clinches, two things illegal in K-1. Yvel has fought in K-1, against Ray Sefo, and it was similar to Igor's fight, in that both displayed great toughness, but eventually succumbed to lowkicks.

 

Thanks

[AmericanDragon 0]

albeit the ability not get KTFO'd in the first minute like he did against a Le Banner JAB

 

Lebanner is a righty but fights southpaw.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Lebanner is a righty but fights southpaw.

 

Well, yeah, but it's still a jab, people don't get knocked out by jabs. Boxing implies that there is no power behind jabs because you're not using your body weight, therefore it's difficult to get KO'd by one unless; (a) you have a weak chin, or (b) the jabber is extremely powerful. Take your pick on the Goodridge/Le Banner fight.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Well I remember Lebanner put his weight into it, and he's jabbing with his right hand. I don't have the clip here but I remember them getting close together and Lebanner just leans into the jab and Gary gets bent backwards a little.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, I've got that clip, too. It may have just caught Gary in the right spot. I've seen weaker KO's in K-1. (Filho/Greco) (Aerts/Bernardo I)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

*mumbles something about stupid K-1 fans taking over his MMA thread*

 

Rumoured UFC Card

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo Leopoldo

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir (Heavyweight title fight)

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

Matt Hughes vs. Renato 'Charuto' Verissimo

Ivan Menjivar vs. Matt Serra

Lee Murray vs. TBA (possibly Tito Ortiz)

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

*mumbles something about stupid K-1 fans taking over his MMA thread*

 

Rumoured UFC Card

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo Leopoldo

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir (Heavyweight title fight)

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

Matt Hughes vs. Renato 'Charuto' Verissimo

Ivan Menjivar vs. Matt Serra

Lee Murray vs. TBA (possibly Tito Ortiz)

The Lee Murray fight is actually against a guy named Joe "Diesel" Riggs. I'm interested to see Dennis Hallman, I've only seen him fight twice, both aganist Matt "I'm a monster that beats the shit out of everyone" Hughes...he won both of those fights.

 

Back to K-1, I don't think the takedown thing was much of a factor against Silva, as Silva preferred to stand and trade, and he played the right game as he sat back and waited. Naturally nobody is his weight in K-1, but if there was LHW division I think he could take care of things. I think Quinton has a very basic style but is extremely tough with lots of power and that he can do well in a K-1 LHW division as well, if such a division existed.

 

I enjoy talking about MMA guys in K-1, so let's do this some more. Mind you, keep in mind not all of these guys are Heavies; Rizzo, Belfort, Liddell, Rutten in his prime, and I heard BJ Penn is thinking of going to K-1, making that like the third guy to drop a title in the UFC. Oh yeah, add Arlovski to that list.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, they're not making the Heavyweight fight a title fight due to the fact that Arlovski has essentially "earned" that right after his win over Cabbage.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

To back track a little here regarding Tyson in K1. From what I had heard reported was that the fights where contracted to be under boxing rules.

 

On the subject of Botha in K1 well he is even more washed up as a fighter than Tyson. At his very best he outboxed Tyson on one of his worst nights for a few rounds before being ko'd. They really arn't at all in the same class.

 

What Tyson has over Botha and over almost every K1 fighter with the odd exception is a nigh on indestructable chin. All his stoppages have been the result of awfull beatings where he soaks up a crazy amount of clean hard shots. He also punches alot harder than anyone in K1 too. Under boxing rules I can't see anyone at all in K1 beating him.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I enjoy talking about MMA guys in K-1, so let's do this some more. Mind you, keep in mind not all of these guys are Heavies; Rizzo, Belfort, Liddell, Rutten in his prime, and I heard BJ Penn is thinking of going to K-1, making that like the third guy to drop a title in the UFC. Oh yeah, add Arlovski to that list.

 

Rizzo fought in K-1 twice I think, he lost to Michael Thompson of Kyokushin Karate (Andy Hug) and won his other match I think. Out of the names you listed Rizzo and Rutten would probably do the best since Rizzo is a former Brazilian muay thai champion and Rutten wasn't too shabby either.

 

Belfort may have the hand speed but I don't think I've ever seen him throw a kick and I've seen very few knees from him. Being one dimensional will only get you so far in K-1. (ask Bernardo) Liddell is too reliant on his haymakers and would probably get KO'd. I know he has a hard chin, but we know that because he's taken a lot of shots, and coming from some of the strikers in K-1 that's pretty dangerous. He does mix it up with knees and kicks, so I would peg him higher than Belfort.

 

I don't believe Penn will be doing kickboxing in K-1, only MMA, because he is kind of in purgatory in K-1 standup; he's 170 and supoosedly walks around at 190, but the K-1 Max fighters are sub 70 kg(150 lbs.) while the heavies are 205 and up. On the early cards there used to be a lot of lesser weight fights on the cards but it's pretty much strictly HW now.

[Styles 0]

Rumoured UFC Card

 

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir (Heavyweight title fight)

 

Matt Hughes vs. Renato 'Charuto' Verissimo

 

Lee Murray vs. TBA (possibly Tito Ortiz)

Sold.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Two quick stupid questions not to do with K1:

 

1) Who is the best fighter in the Gracie family? I would have said Royce before for obvious reasons but I've heard otherwise.

 

2) What sort of background does Kazushi have? He's dominated Gracies on the ground and can take down the best of them, but isn't he just a Pro Wrestler? Someone explain this to me, as I am not really familiar with the whole aura surrounding Saku.

[Guest Fear]

where would you rank the best strikers in MMA among those guys? Fedor destroyed Goodridge standing, Wanderlei kneed Quinton to oblivion, and let's not forget Yvel's sick high kick at PRIDE 10 against Gary...

 

Thing is, MMA fighters train so hard at so many aspects, while K-1 fighters (at least, the truly awesome ones) train exclusively stand up. K-1 heavyweight fighters throw punches just as fast as MMA middleweights do (which, imo, means Fedor would probably get KO'd pretty quickly). They also (obviously) throw lots more strikes. One (average) round of K-1 action probably has more clean strikes than 3 rounds of (average) MMA action. You've got to watch out for punches, knees and kicks much more intently than in an MMA match, meaning your stand up defence has GOT to be great. Using three of your examples, Silva, Liddell and Fedor - those guys would have to work extremely hard on improving their stand up defence if they wanted to be successful in K-1. There's also the accuracy issue - K-1 fighters, again due to their extensive training, being much more accurate than MMA fighters.

 

Going into detail regarding arguably the top striker in MMA today, Wanderlei Silva... Silva would get counter-attacked so hard and fast, he wouldn't know what hit him. His favourite weapon - the clinch knee - is almost disabled as K-1 rules only allow one (fluid) clinch knee at a time. You're not allowed to just hold on and knee and knee and knee like Silva does. However, his fight with Mirko was great and showed signs that if Silva concentrated solely on stand up, he'd be a force in kickboxing at a 205 pound level. Shame K-1 no longer promotes that weight class.

 

At the end of the day, I think most MMA fighters (even the best ones) wouldn't get far in K-1, and neither would many K-1 fighters be successful in MMA (unless they developed a sprawl as godly as Mirko's).

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

where would you rank the best strikers in MMA among those guys? Fedor destroyed Goodridge standing, Wanderlei kneed Quinton to oblivion, and let's not forget Yvel's sick high kick at PRIDE 10 against Gary...

 

Thing is, MMA fighters train so hard at so many aspects, while K-1 fighters (at least, the truly awesome ones) train exclusively stand up. K-1 heavyweight fighters throw punches just as fast as MMA middleweights do (which, imo, means Fedor would probably get KO'd pretty quickly). They also (obviously) throw lots more strikes. One (average) round of K-1 action probably has more clean strikes than 3 rounds of (average) MMA action. You've got to watch out for punches, knees and kicks much more intently than in an MMA match, meaning your stand up defence has GOT to be great. Using three of your examples, Silva, Liddell and Fedor - those guys would have to work extremely hard on improving their stand up defence if they wanted to be successful in K-1. There's also the accuracy issue - K-1 fighters, again due to their extensive training, being much more accurate than MMA fighters.

 

Going into detail regarding arguably the top striker in MMA today, Wanderlei Silva... Silva would get counter-attacked so hard and fast, he wouldn't know what hit him. His favourite weapon - the clinch knee - is almost disabled as K-1 rules only allow one (fluid) clinch knee at a time. You're not allowed to just hold on and knee and knee and knee like Silva does. However, his fight with Mirko was great and showed signs that if Silva concentrated solely on stand up, he'd be a force in kickboxing at a 205 pound level. Shame K-1 no longer promotes that weight class.

 

At the end of the day, I think most MMA fighters (even the best ones) wouldn't get far in K-1, and neither would many K-1 fighters be successful in MMA (unless they developed a sprawl as godly as Mirko's).

Oh I knew why they wouldn't be as good, I was just curious as to who they might fare. "Fantasy booking" if you weel.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Two quick stupid questions not to do with K1:

 

1) Who is the best fighter in the Gracie family? I would have said Royce before for obvious reasons but I've heard otherwise.

Royce is the most skilled and the most accomplished. Who else rivals him? Certainly not Renzo or Rickson. Royler? I've only seen the fight against Sakuraba, but he didn't seem in Royce's league there.

 

2) What sort of background does Kazushi have? He's dominated Gracies on the ground and can take down the best of them, but isn't he just a Pro Wrestler? Someone explain this to me, as I am not really familiar with the whole aura surrounding Saku.

Sakuraba was a pro-wrestler for UWFi, a shoot style promotion, but I've also seen him in MMA fights as early as 1996, so he wasn't just some pro-wrestler who decided to see how well he could do in PRIDE. He trained in Brazilian Jui Jitsu and kickboxing, and probably some Amature wrestling, too.

 

Sakuraba's aura was essentially that he was a very smart, creative, and energetic fighter who always put on a show. He was known for using lots of flashy moves that most fighters wouldn't bother with, like spin kicks, diving foot stomps, cartwheels, mongolian chops, which made his fights more exciting. On top of that, he was highly skilled and defeated some dificult opponents like Royce, Newton, Jackson, and Belfort.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Two quick stupid questions not to do with K1:

 

1) Who is the best fighter in the Gracie family? I would have said Royce before for obvious reasons but I've heard otherwise.

Royce is the most skilled and the most accomplished. Who else rivals him? Certainly not Renzo or Rickson. Royler? I've only seen the fight against Sakuraba, but he didn't seem in Royce's league there.

 

2) What sort of background does Kazushi have? He's dominated Gracies on the ground and can take down the best of them, but isn't he just a Pro Wrestler? Someone explain this to me, as I am not really familiar with the whole aura surrounding Saku.

Sakuraba was a pro-wrestler for UWFi, a shoot style promotion, but I've also seen him in MMA fights as early as 1996, so he wasn't just some pro-wrestler who decided to see how well he could do in PRIDE. He trained in Brazilian Jui Jitsu and kickboxing, and probably some Amature wrestling, too.

 

Sakuraba's aura was essentially that he was a very smart, creative, and energetic fighter who always put on a show. He was known for using lots of flashy moves that most fighters wouldn't bother with, like spin kicks, diving foot stomps, cartwheels, mongolian chops, which made his fights more exciting. On top of that, he was highly skilled and defeated some dificult opponents like Royce, Newton, Jackson, and Belfort.

I knew about why he became so popular, but what I meant by aura (bad choice of words admittedly) was how in the hell did a pro wrestler become so good at fighting? I vaguely remember hearing that Saku was like a national amateur champ, don't know the truth to that though.

 

I've heard that Renzo rivals Royce, although I don't know how much truth there is to that, and I've seen old BJJ instructions from the Gracies where Royce was the dummy, as opposed to the guy teaching, which was the Gracie with a porno moustache, don't know his name.

 

What was the story with Ken at PRIDE 10? Why the towel, why the hard feelings after the fight. He was *dominating*. I know a lot of people don't like him, but you can't take away the fact that he's a smart fighter, and that he is pretty well-rounded. He couldn't knock Fujita out, but who has?

 

Speaking of PRIDE 10, Eddie Bravo wasn't that bad on the stick. I actually thought he added to the match.

 

So do PRIDE fighters only know they'll be fighting a week beforehand or what?

[AboveAverage484 0]

What was the story with Ken at PRIDE 10? Why the towel, why the hard feelings after the fight. He was *dominating*. I know a lot of people don't like him, but you can't take away the fact that he's a smart fighter, and that he is pretty well-rounded. He couldn't knock Fujita out, but who has?

 

I'm pretty damn sure he was having heart palpatations. He called for Pete Williams to throw in the towel when he was in the corner cuz he thought he might be having a heart attack. I doubt he gassed cuz if anything he would be getting air just sitting in the corner.