2008 NBA Finals: Lakers vs. Celtics

[Guest Jesus Freaks on Coke]

I didn't say he isn't good.

I think Paul Pierce is a really good player

 

He's good.

 

I said that right now, I do not view him as one of the greatest men to ever play the game.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Pete Maravich? Meh. Probably not.

You do realize it's the basketball HOF and not just the NBA HOF, right?

 

And you do realize that Maravich averaged like 44 points a game for his entire NCAA career, and led the nation in scoring all three years he was in school, right?. Even if Maravich had never played in the NBA, he would be worthy of enshrinement.

[Guest Jesus Freaks on Coke]

Minor league numbers don't impress me. Even NBA 12th men have put up huge numbers in college. The most attention should be given to professional success. How could anyone be worthy of enshrinement based solely on developmental-tier competition? That's bullshit. Eric Lindros dominated with the Oshawa Generals and then never amounted to anything in the pros. Let's put that douchebag in too.

[alfdogg 0]

I don't know that I'd vote him in first-ballot, but there are probably lesser players that have been elected.

[Guest Jesus Freaks on Coke]

But to what extent does the existence of lesser inductees warrant other inferior inductees? Maybe they should just stop inducting so many undeserving players. I don't know. Pierce will be comfortably eastcoastbiased into the Hall of Fame and that'll be that. I can't discuss this much further. It's too wonky for me.

[Ripper 0]

Bill Walton is in the Hall of fame. If he is there, Pierce deserves to be there.

 

This isn't the first time he has carried this team on his back. Back when it was literally him and Walka, the Cetics made a Eastern Conference finals and had the nets on the ropes.

 

He has averaged over 25 points per game 5 times in his career. Which is good seeing as he is a scorer and all. The guy should have been a borderline HOF player before this series in most peoples eyes. I don't see how you can possibly say he isn't now. This isn't a guy that won a NBA Finals MVP like Chaucney Billiups but still shouldn't be near the Hall. Its Paul freakin Pierce. He has simply been one of the best players in the league for nearly 10 years now.

[Ripper 0]

Minor league numbers don't impress me. Even NBA 12th men have put up huge numbers in college. The most attention should be given to professional success. How could anyone be worthy of enshrinement based solely on developmental-tier competition? That's bullshit. Eric Lindros dominated with the Oshawa Generals and then never amounted to anything in the pros. Let's put that douchebag in too.

 

 

Because back then there was actual competition in college hoops. There was no one and gones, so you had great teams and great players back then. there were college teams that could beat some NBA teams back then.

 

And despite what anyone thinks, this is not the case anymore.

[Black Lushus 0]

Just looking over the HoF list, if Dominique Wilkins and Clyde Drexler can make it, so can Paul Pierce. Keep in mind Pierce has at least 4 or 5 more good seasons left to pad his stats and POSSIBLY win another championship. Drexler could never get it done on his own and had to tag along with Hakeem Olajuwon during the twilight of his career to finally get it done. Wilkins has numerous personal acolaydes, but no title whatsoever. Can he get in right NOW? I think so. Will he get in if he continues to play well before he retires? Most likely. If he's a big contributing factor to at least one more title? Definitely.

[Ripper 0]

Hey now. Dominique Wilkins was one of the most destructive offensive forces in the history of the league.

 

And saying Drexler couldn't get it done is over simplifying it. Not only was he the second most important player on his team when they won the championship in Houston, if it weren't for a amazing job of sucking Michael Jordans dick in the finals against the Bulls the Blazers would have won one there (or if the Blazers could have stopped Pippen and 4 bench players from making that comeback in game 6).

 

Those just aren't good guys to list as "if they can make it" guys. they both should have been first ballot guys.

[Brett Favre 0]

Pete Maravich? Meh. Probably not.

 

Pete Maravich isn't a HOFer?! What the hell is the matter with you?

[Guest]

I was big on letting Odom go... but in thinking... do they really want Radmanovich to be starting small forward? Cuz that's what exactly is going to happen.

No, Trevor Ariza. Or whoever the Lakers pick up in exchange for Odom. I would like to see the Lakers try and move Odom for Mike Dunleavy Jr...before this season, that could've happened. After Dunleavy had such a good year last year, I doubt it.

[alfdogg 0]

Of today's active players, these are the guys I would definitely put in first ballot. No particular order, just going down the list of teams.

 

Kevin Garnett

Jason Kidd

Allen Iverson

Dikembe Mutombo

Kobe Bryant

Alonzo Mourning

Steve Nash

Shaquille O'Neal

Tim Duncan

 

Pierce, Ray Allen, Dirk Nowitzki I'm on the fence about. Probably yes, but I wouldn't say they're the slam dunks that the above group is. I might be forgetting a couple guys, these were just off the top of my head. If you guys have any other names to throw out there, feel free.

[Ripper 0]

i don't know if Zo is a first ballot guy, but the rest of that list, yeah.

[naiwf 0]

Nash shouldn't get in on the first ballot either if he can't make it to an NBA Finals before he retires.

[Just John 0]

Steve Nash was the starting PG on the league's best offense 6 years in a row. And that was with 2 different teams. I'd say he goes in easy, but he'll have a hard time winning over the "must get to the finals" crowd. Thanks to Suns Management's decisions, the only way he'll get to the finals is as a backup on a good team during the final years of his career.

[Ripper 0]

Nash shouldn't get in on the first ballot either if he can't make it to an NBA Finals before he retires.

 

6 time leading offense and 2 MVP awards...of course he should get in on the first ballot.

 

I know you don't like the guy, but thats just beyond silly.

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

Curious, but does winning MVP and playing for a long time at a fairly high level guarantee that you'll get in? If that's the case, Dirk should be a no-brainer, although I doubt he's a first ballot.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Well, everyone who's ever won MVP and is eligible is in the Hall, so that seems like a fair bet.

[Black Lushus 0]

Hey now. Dominique Wilkins was one of the most destructive offensive forces in the history of the league.

 

And saying Drexler couldn't get it done is over simplifying it. Not only was he the second most important player on his team when they won the championship in Houston, if it weren't for a amazing job of sucking Michael Jordans dick in the finals against the Bulls the Blazers would have won one there (or if the Blazers could have stopped Pippen and 4 bench players from making that comeback in game 6).

 

Those just aren't good guys to list as "if they can make it" guys. they both should have been first ballot guys.

 

My point is, Pierce is on the same path, stats-wise as those guys...hence the "if they can make it". He has the added prestige of being a champion and an MVP over Wilkins.

 

That Rockets team was the exact same team as the 94 team that won with the addition of Drexler...who's to say they wouldn't have won it without him?

 

fuckin Atlanta homer

[naiwf 0]

Nash shouldn't get in on the first ballot either if he can't make it to an NBA Finals before he retires.

 

6 time leading offense and 2 MVP awards...of course he should get in on the first ballot.

 

I know you don't like the guy, but thats just beyond silly.

 

His career numbers are 14.3 PPG, 7.9 APG (12,278 total points, 6,787 assists), or basically he's not on par with a guy with no HOF aspirations like Stephon Marbury 19.7/7.8 (16,209/6,396 and he's 3 years younger). If he didn't have the 2 MVPs he wouldn't be a Hall of Famer. As it is he does NOT deserve to make it in on the first ballot unless he does something in the postseason.

[bob_barron 0]

The only Hall of Fame Zo should get in is the Defective Kidney Hall of Fame.

[Carnival 0]

Black Lushus, don't ever compare Paul "Sloppy Floperton" Pierce to the The Human Highlight Reel.

[Ripper 0]

Hey now. Dominique Wilkins was one of the most destructive offensive forces in the history of the league.

 

And saying Drexler couldn't get it done is over simplifying it. Not only was he the second most important player on his team when they won the championship in Houston, if it weren't for a amazing job of sucking Michael Jordans dick in the finals against the Bulls the Blazers would have won one there (or if the Blazers could have stopped Pippen and 4 bench players from making that comeback in game 6).

 

Those just aren't good guys to list as "if they can make it" guys. they both should have been first ballot guys.

 

My point is, Pierce is on the same path, stats-wise as those guys...hence the "if they can make it". He has the added prestige of being a champion and an MVP over Wilkins.

 

That Rockets team was the exact same team as the 94 team that won with the addition of Drexler...who's to say they wouldn't have won it without him?

 

fuckin Atlanta homer

 

 

Pauls best season scoring was 2 points more than Dominiques career average. They aren't nearly on the same plane offensively, which is where both of them will be remembered.

 

I will give you clyde in saying that they are near each other stat wise, but Paul ain't fucking with Pierce.

 

fuckin...um...former Knick fan.

[bob_barron 0]

First ballot in the NBA doesn't have the same meaning as it does baseball.

 

And using Pete Maravich was a dumb example, Czech

[naiwf 0]

First ballot in the NBA doesn't have the same meaning as it does baseball.

 

And using Pete Maravich was a dumb example, Czech

 

I'll agree with that. There's at least 20-30 guys playing right now who will end up in the HoF at the end of the day, and it is nitpicking to debate whether or not someone's a first ballot guy or not, but isn't that what message boards discussions are 90% of the time anyway?

[Ripper 0]

Nash shouldn't get in on the first ballot either if he can't make it to an NBA Finals before he retires.

 

6 time leading offense and 2 MVP awards...of course he should get in on the first ballot.

 

I know you don't like the guy, but thats just beyond silly.

 

His career numbers are 14.3 PPG, 7.9 APG (12,278 total points, 6,787 assists), or basically he's not on par with a guy with no HOF aspirations like Stephon Marbury 19.7/7.8 (16,209/6,396 and he's 3 years younger). If he didn't have the 2 MVPs he wouldn't be a Hall of Famer. As it is he does NOT deserve to make it in on the first ballot unless he does something in the postseason.

 

Players are remembered for their best years. not "hey lets average in his points and assist from the days in Phoenix when he was Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnsons backup and played 8 minutes per game.

 

He has 8 seasons of very good-great numbers and like I brought up before when people were talking about how Gary Payton is OBVIOUSLY a first ballot guy, Payton only had 9, arguably 10 productive season in the NBA. If it is enough to guarentee Payton a first ballot spot, I don't see how you can argue that the guy with 2 MVPS and just as many productive season shouldn't be there. Take away the trophys and he still should be in the Hall first ballot honestly. his numbers support it.

 

he has gotten nearly half his career assist in the last 4 years. thats too impressive of a run to ignore.

 

[naiwf 0]

GP's got almost 22,000 points (27th all time and 9,000 more than Nash) and 9,000 assists (7th, +2,200). He also averaged over 20 PPG 7 times. That's why he's getting in on the first ballot. If Nash has 4 more "Steve Nash" years he'll just be approaching Payton's numbers by the end of the 4th season. That's a pretty big gap when Nash is 4 more prime seasons away from touching Payton.

[alfdogg 0]

Yeah, for some reason I forgot that Dirk won the MVP last year. In that case, I think he's got to go if Zo and Dikembe go.

 

As far as Nash goes, it's easy to dismiss him after just looking at his numbers and the fact that he's never been to the Finals, but if you look deeper, he has spear-headed an offense that attracted a lot of casual fans to the game and changed the blueprint for the way a number of teams built their rosters. I personally think the ripple effect has done as much bad as it has good, but I'm in the extreme minority on that opinion, and it has brought a lot of excitement to the game for the people who feel the opposite.

 

I've never subscribed to the whole "he couldn't make the Finals, so he should have to wait his turn" theory. If your team is consistently in contention as the Suns have been, I think that should be enough, provided you don't do an Al Harrington and just completely disappear in the postseason.

[Matt Young 0]

It sucks that the Lakers lost, but Garnett's celebration had me a little emotional. He has been one of my favorites for the last almost 13 years so it was good to see him get his.

 

Other than that, and the novelty of being able to watch Lakers/Celtics live (I was pushing 3 when they last played in the Finals), bleh.

[Failed Bridge 0]

Pierce is 7th on the Celtics all time scoring list and has a damn good chance of breaking John Havlicek's record if he finishes his career in Boston and stays healthy (I suspect he'll play for at least another 5-7 years) which I would think lands him in the Hall of Fame.