UFC 86: Jackson vs Griffin

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Either way, fighter bashing shouldn't be allowed and is very disgraceful... The majority of MMA forums don't allow it, so should this place

[Mik 0]

You're just as guilty of it as he is. As am I... which you'll see every time Ed Herman fights. Ginger trailer parking mother fucker.

 

Let's just everyone relax and play nice or I might have to actually moderate a thread.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I hate Ed herman...anyway...

 

fuck it, guy doesn't know what he's talking about anyway, so he's not hurting anyone. Let him stew in his own MMA ignorance.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Here's how I scored the fight.

 

Round 1: Although Forrest was winning the round until getting knocked down... I scored the round 10-8 for Rampages due to the knockdown. In boxing usually a knockdown warrants an automatic 10-8 round to the fighter who scored the knockdown, and thats how I score MMA fights as well. It wasn't like Forrest was completely dominating the round as well. Rampage 10-8

 

Round 2: Forrest completely dominated the round and buckled Rampage with a leg kick. I scored this 10-8, because of Forrests clear dominating this round. Rampage offered nothing on offense to prevent this from being a 10-8 for Forrest.

 

Round 3: Rampage rocked Forrest a few times in this round... Forrest landed a few leg kicks, but I thought this was clearly Rampages round due to him doing the most damage this round. Rampage 10-9

 

Round 4: Forrest had a triangle choke attempt but it was never close to getting locked in. Rampage defend well and when he got the fight to the stand up he busted Forrest up, causing a good cut below the right eye. Once again you have to give this round to Rampage because he caused the most damage in the round, causing Forrest to get cut badly. Rampage 10-9

 

Round 5: Forrest wins this round, due to the fact he was outstriking Rampage the majority of the round. Where as Rampage was just trying to look for the one big punch to finish the fight. Forrest played it smart and avoided most of Rampages shots. Forrest 10-9

 

My final scored card 47-46 for Rampage... Close fight, but I really felt you couldn't give Forrest the 3-4 round due to the fact it was Rampage who did the most damage.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

So Juanito Ibarra thinks Rampage got the first round 10-8. Wonder what fight he was actually watching while the real one was going on.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

So Juanito Ibarra thinks Rampage got the first round 10-8. Wonder what fight he was actually watching while the real one was going on.

 

Randy Couture(Forrest's trainer) scored it 10-8 as well... When a fighter comes close to finishing a fight, I think it warrants a 10-8. I'm a firm believer that 10-8 rounds are not used enough in MMA.

[starvenger 0]

So, what is apparently the best way to celebrate winning the LHW title?

 

If you're Forrest Griffin, playing at the same table as Johnny Chan in the WSOP Main Event.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Carlito- If that's your argument fine but using that there's no way you can justify a 10-8 for Forrest in the second as he never came close to finishing Rampage.

[Mik 0]

That's a nice $10,000 donation to the prize pool by Forrest. What charity.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Carlito- If that's your argument fine but using that there's no way you can justify a 10-8 for Forrest in the second as he never came close to finishing Rampage.

 

But Rampage also didnt do ANYTHING in the round to warrant a 10-9... Forrest also buckled Rampage very hard with that leg kick which is the main reason why I scored it 10-8.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Total payroll for the pay-per-view event, which took place July 5 at the Mandalay Bay Events in Las Vegas, was $943,000.

 

Griffin and Jackson accounted for 50.4 percent of the payroll.

 

Also worth noting is that Gabriel Gonzaga earned the event's third-highest payout ($100,000) despite appearing in an un-aired preliminary card.

 

The full list of salaries included:

 

Forrest Griffin: $250,000 ($150,000 win bonus) def.

Quinton Jackson: $225,000

 

Patrick Cote: $32,000 ($16,000 win bonus) def.

Ricardo Almeida: $23,000

 

Joe Stevenson: $60,000 ($30,000 win bonus) def.

Gleison Tibau: $11,000

 

Josh Koscheck: $70,000 ($35,000 win bonus) def.

Chris Lytle: $14,000

 

Tyson Griffin: $40,000 ($20,000 win bonus) def.

Marcus Aurelio: $40,000

 

Gabriel Gonzaga: $100,000 ($50,000 win bonus) def.

Justin McCully: $5,000

 

Cole Miller: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus) def.

Jorge Gurgel: $ 10,000

 

Melvin Guillard: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus) def.

Dennis Siver: $7,000

 

Justin Buchholz: $8,000 ($4000 win bonus) def.

Corey Hill: $8,000

 

Not to mention the $60k Rampage and Forrest got for FOTN. Cole Miller and Melvin got the same for subs and KO of the night

 

Kos got a nice pay bump from his old contract

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If you can give somebody a 10-8 off buckling on a leg kick there's no way you could avoid giving Rampage a 10-8 for the first due to the uppercut. Judging is a 2-way street.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

If you can give somebody a 10-8 off buckling on a leg kick there's no way you could avoid giving Rampage a 10-8 for the first due to the uppercut. Judging is a 2-way street.

 

He got a 10-8 round for buckling Rampage, and completely dominating the round from the opening bell to the end. Rampage did absolutely nothing on offense to warrant it being 10-9. There are other factors to judging a 10-8 round. There has been rounds in boxing that have been scored 10-8 round without a knockdown, because of pure domination of that round.

[Bay Harbor Butcher 0]

Rampage sucks? Based on what?

 

Based on the fact I never thought Rampage was that impressive of a fighter to begin with. He's even admitted before that he hates to train.

That still doesn't explain why you think Rampage sucks. If you hate him, that's fine. But if you're going to say that he sucks, and imply that he's not a "real MMA fighter," you should be able to (semi)intelligently back it up. Saying Rampage sucks because he doesn't like to train doesn't count as an intelligent reason.

 

There's a difference between not liking a fighter and saying that he sucks. I think Matt Hughes is a dick, but I wouldn't say he sucks.

 

 

Many of you are just being a bunch of whiny bitches, even though Quinton lost the fight fair and square. I hate it when fanboys make fucking excuses for their favorite fighter's losses. "Whaaaaaaaaa! The fight was rigged!

"

Oh, come on. If the fight was declared a draw or if Rampage had won, you'd probably be bitching. It was a close fight and I can understand why some people are complaining.

 

 

So Juanito Ibarra thinks Rampage got the first round 10-8. Wonder what fight he was actually watching while the real one was going on.

That reminds me. Is Ibarra going to retire now like he said he would?

[starvenger 0]

Welcome to the MMA Forum, Deke - hope you survive the experience...

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Deke is already calling MVP out on his retardedness so he's off to a good start.

[Damaramu 0]

I just want them to do a rematch before Forrest has a chance to lose the title or Rampage loses to someone else (i don't know who, maybe machida in a No. 1 contender fight, but machida shouldn't be dicked anymore).

[Lord of The Curry 0]

So this fight has really set off the debate of "What constitutes a 10-8 round?" and the 2nd is difficult to judge because of two things....

 

1) Forrest controlled the round too much to get a 10-9

 

2) Rampage didn't take enough damage to warrant the type of damage you'd expect to see in a 10-8 round

 

For me, what could've been the deciding factor in the two judges eyes to make it a 10-8 was the fact that Rampage did absolutely shitnothing to get out of mount.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Round One Cleary Rampage's round IMO. Not by a wide wide margin, but Rampage's power shots helped him take the round. Jackson 10-9

 

Round Two All Forrest. If Rampage does anything after the takedown it's a 10-9 down, but he did nothing and got absolutely dominated. And for those say "all he did was smother him" I suppose elbows and punches are no longer scoring blows. 10-8 for Griffin (19-18 Griffin).

 

Round Three Close round that I gave to Forrest. If you look for just power shots you probably gave it to Rampage. However, Griffin was the aggressor for most of the round as Rampage played defense and backed up most of the round. Griffin 10-9 (29-27)

 

Round Four Jackson is aggressive and wins this one. Here the round is close enough to where the power shots ended up being the difference. Jackson 10-9 (38-37 Griffin)

 

Round Five Very tough round to score. But again, Jackson lands the power shots, but Griffin is more aggressive and lands more, stealing a close round. Griffin 10-9 (48-46 Griffin)

That's pretty much how I saw it. I figured Rd 1 to Rampage because of the knockdown, and Rd 2 to Forrest, but the rest was close enough to go either way. I watched 1-4 twice before Rd 5, after my brother saw I had it on and wanted to start again.

 

I'll admit I was kind of rooting for Forrest, and I had a feeling he'd managed to pull off the decision. The 49-45 score surprised me, though I can kind of see where it would come from.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

From the NSAC's website regarding a 10-8 round....

 

M. Domination Criteria

1. A Judge may determine that a fighter dominated his opponent in a round. This can lead to a two point or more difference on a Judge's scorecard.

2. The definition of a dominating round is a fighter's ability to effectively strike, grapple and

control his opponent.

3. A Judge may determine a round was dominating if a fighter was adversely affected by one of the following:

-knocked down from standing position by clean strike

-by submission attempt

-from a throw

-from clean strikes either standing or grounded.

 

Reviewing that I can't see how Forrest gets a 10-8 round. The leg kicks and choke attempt along with the control make it an easy 10-9 but Rampage was never in eminent danger of being submitted or TKO'd and Forrest's ground and pound was too weak as well as being sporadic. Goddamn that is a tough round to call.

[starvenger 0]

That's a nice $10,000 donation to the prize pool by Forrest. What charity.

Perhaps not. Check out Cofield's Blog: Forrest had a Full Tilt patch while Chuck Liddell had a Pokerstars patch. They may have been given the $10K to enter.

 

Liddell was apparently at the same table as Phil Hellmuth btw.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I wish Chuck would punch Phil in the mouth.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I also think the 10 point must system is a very flawed way to judge a MMA fight, because of the controversey it has been causing since desicions and judges scorecards have been introduced to MMA. But the main problem is there is no other way really to judge the fight and it's the only way that makes sense.

[starvenger 0]

I wish Chuck would punch Phil in the mouth.

I won't deny that the thought didn't cross my mind.

[AboveAverage484 0]

My final thoughts and analysis on this fight:

 

Forrest won and I wasn't surprised.

 

If Rampage won I wouldn't have been surprised.

 

If the fight was a draw I wouldn't have been surprised.

 

This is how close fights go.

[Perfection 0]

I also think the 10 point must system is a very flawed way to judge a MMA fight, because of the controversey it has been causing since desicions and judges scorecards have been introduced to MMA. But the main problem is there is no other way really to judge the fight and it's the only way that makes sense.

 

And what makes it even worse the judges normally know next to nothing about mma as they are boxing judges. The scoring system is seriously flawed and in desperate need of revamping. Hopefully controversies like this will help this come to pass but it's not like it's not been any before. We have all heard dana white comment on a number of times these judges don't know what the fuck they are doing or what they are seeing.

 

About the fight, I really like both fighters and it really didn't matter to me who won, I just wanted to see a good fight between two fighters I really like. That said, I thought forest won that fight. Although close, he threw tons of leg kicks and I think a lot of the controversy stems from the fact most people look for punches or don't consider leg kicks up there with punches . My opinion, and I watched the fight 3 times, was rampage won round 1 and 4 while forrest won 2,3, and 5. I can see how some might be upset but some of these comments I have seen are pretty outrageous and over the top.

 

In the end though, I'm really proud of both rampage and forrest as there are not many in the sport capable of going 5 rounds at the pace they did and not be completely gassed. Yet they still were pressing the action in round 5 right up until the final seconds. On top of that, rampage clearly was hurting from those leg kicks through the majority of the fight but he kept on. Major major kudos to both of them.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Mac Danzig:

 

I might be a little biased because Forrest is a good friend and training partner, but in my opinion Forrest won the fight hands down, three rounds to two. He outworked him from beginning to end, and even though not everything he threw landed, at least he fought the whole time instead of just looking for one big shot. You know, Forrest trained hard for this fight and it showed. He was training in the gym everyday, not running around with a chain around his neck, telling people he's a thug.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=13580

 

 

What a tool...

[nl5xsk1 0]

Mac Danzig:

 

<snip>

 

What a tool...

 

Either way, fighter bashing shouldn't be allowed and is very disgraceful... The majority of MMA forums don't allow it, so should this place

 

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

He is a tool though... If he says something stupid, he should be called out on it. Rampage doesn't go around talking about how much of a thug he is, he is one of the most down to earth people I've seen in MMA.

 

Why are you even posting here? Since when have you ever commented on anything MMA related? Seems to me you're flame baiting.

 

Oh yeah, I'm calling Mac Danzig a tool, because he is the one doing the fighter bashing in his comment.

[nl5xsk1 0]

First, it was a joke.

 

Second, you're right, I rarely post in this folder. I did a few times during one of the TUF seasons a few years ago, but really don't follow the sport closely enough to converse with most of you. I read the threads frequently - especially the PPV threads - but wouldn't be able to really hang with you guys in terms of knowledge, so don't bother posting my two-cents and wasting anyone's time.

 

Third, while my post was meant good-naturedly, it's funny to me that you'd go out of your way to condemn "fighter bashing" one day and then speak negatively about a fighter the next. Methinks you were so quick to condemn "fighter bashing" yesterday because it was the guy that you supported being bashed ... and then so quick to knock Danzig today because he was speaking favorably of the guy that just beat the guy that you support. Practice what you preach, EHME.