UFC 88: Breakthrough - Liddell vs. Evans

[Lei Tong 0]

He's explosively athletic.

[The Niggardly King 0]

He has the footwork and head movement of a D+/C- rate Roy Jones Jr. and in the MMA game that's huge.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

"His bob and weave is textbook Joe, he really has earned the nickname of 'Sugar'. His head movement reminds me of a young Roy Jones Jr."

 

"OH YEAH THIS IS A CRAZY FIGHT"

 

"All he wants to do...is shock the world"

 

Chuck knocks him down to the Middleweight division. All logic points to this, but with MMA being what it is, Rashad wins via flying triangle choke in the first round.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Rashad by Armbar late in the 3rd round, up until then it'll look like Chuck is going to win the match by a UD.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Rashad blew up in the middle of round 1 against Bisping and got a few take downs to score the decision. Liddell's a MUCH superior striker who has gone 5 rounds plenty of times and is well known for his take down defense.

 

 

Liddell, Round 2 KO.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

But the thing about Chuck going into the fight that is working against him is his age, and his hamstring... His knee looked nasty, and he is coming off surgey, so who knows how that will effect his takedown defense.

 

People like to give Rashad shit about the Bisping fight, sure Rashad gassed but he still clearly won the fight 30-27 in my eyes, despite Joe Rogan blowing Bisping hard in that fight. Every fight is different, I don't think we'll see the same Rashad Evans of the Bisping fight in this fight, Rashad knows he can't put up a somewhat lackluster performance like he did in the Bisping fight to get past Chuck. Greg Jackson already had a great gameplan to beat Chuck when Jardine faced him, Rashad has the ability to do that same. Plus Rashad has proven he can take punishment and not give up.

 

Of course Chuck is going to be the favorite going into the fact due to "Chuck Vs. Wrestler = KO win for Chuck", but I ain't counting Rashad out.

 

Part of me wants Rashad to lose though as I would like to see him at 185, I think he would be a top contender there no question.

[Mik 0]

The injury is a good point. I mean, without that factor I don't really see how Rashad can hang with Chuck but who knows if he's at 100%.

 

Then again it's always tough when a really established star is fighting someone up and coming. No one gives the up and coming guy a chance, most of the time, but this is how people make their name.

 

I still heavily favor Chuck.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I don't see how Rashad beat Bisping 30-27. In my eyes, Bisping clearly won round 2 and round 3. He was better with the striking and (lazily) worked from his back. Rashad just got a couple of take downs and laid on him.

 

 

Then again, I don't like either Rashad or Bisping, so it was a shit fight no matter how you look at it.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I don't see how Rashad beat Bisping 30-27. In my eyes, Bisping clearly won round 2 and round 3. He was better with the striking and (lazily) worked from his back. Rashad just got a couple of take downs and laid on him.

 

Were you watching that fight on crack? Or don't you realise that takedowns do score points? Bisping clearly won round 2 and 3? LMAO! You have to be the 1st and the only person who I've seen score the fight for Bisping, aside from that moron Ronulo Bittencourt.

 

Rashad Evans was landing punches when he took down Bisping, and even in the stand up he was landing punches and giving Bisping troubles, setting up his takedowns. But of course you never saw Joe Rogan acknowledge any of the punches Rashad was landing in the stand up. Rashad also was the one controlling the pace of the fight.

 

 

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I don't see how Rashad beat Bisping 30-27. In my eyes, Bisping clearly won round 2 and round 3. He was better with the striking and (lazily) worked from his back. Rashad just got a couple of take downs and laid on him.

 

Were you watching that fight on crack? Or don't you realise that takedowns do score points? Bisping clearly won round 2 and 3? LMAO! You have to be the 1st and the only person who I've seen score the fight for Bisping, aside from that moron Ronulo Bittencourt.

 

Rashad Evans was landing punches when he took down Bisping, and even in the stand up he was landing punches and giving Bisping troubles, setting up his takedowns. But of course you never saw Joe Rogan acknowledge any of the punches Rashad was landing in the stand up. Rashad also was the one controlling the pace of the fight.

 

 

He was controlling the pace of the fight? Are you kidding? He laid on top of Bisping the whole time. Every time he went to do his shitty GNP, Bisping barely got touched and was working for an armbar from the bottom.

 

And you do realize Bisping took Rashad down, right? Bisping did more damage (not by much) while standing. Bisping was doing more (not by much) on the ground. Both guys gassed, but Bisping didn't just get a takedown and lay in guard until it was stood up.

 

Both guys looked like shit, but I think Bisping should have won that fight.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I don't see how Rashad beat Bisping 30-27. In my eyes, Bisping clearly won round 2 and round 3. He was better with the striking and (lazily) worked from his back. Rashad just got a couple of take downs and laid on him.

 

Were you watching that fight on crack? Or don't you realise that takedowns do score points? Bisping clearly won round 2 and 3? LMAO! You have to be the 1st and the only person who I've seen score the fight for Bisping, aside from that moron Ronulo Bittencourt.

 

Rashad Evans was landing punches when he took down Bisping, and even in the stand up he was landing punches and giving Bisping troubles, setting up his takedowns. But of course you never saw Joe Rogan acknowledge any of the punches Rashad was landing in the stand up. Rashad also was the one controlling the pace of the fight.

 

 

He was controlling the pace of the fight? Are you kidding? He laid on top of Bisping the whole time. Every time he went to do his shitty GNP, Bisping barely got touched and was working for an armbar from the bottom.

 

And you do realize Bisping took Rashad down, right? Bisping did more damage (not by much) while standing. Bisping was doing more (not by much) on the ground. Both guys gassed, but Bisping didn't just get a takedown and lay in guard until it was stood up.

 

Both guys looked like shit, but I think Bisping should have won that fight.

 

Bisping did more damage on the ground? Now I know you're really smoking crack. Bisping's submission attempts were never even close, as he was eating punches by a gassed out Rashad.

 

Most of the fight was on the ground with Rashad having top position, now I don't know about you but usually the judges gives the fighter with the top position for the majority of the fight most of the points. Bisping took down Rashad once to how many times Rashad took Bisping down? And Bisping took Rashad down and had top position for a total of 1 second. Rashad didn't really lay and pray Bisping, you need to really examine what real lay and pray is and watch Fujita/Yvel.

 

I'm sure you're one of those people who scored the Rutten/Randleman fight for Bas Rutten, right?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Jason MacDonald replaces an injured Jason Day, and will fight Jason Lambert... Damn MacDaddy has some balls, taking this fight on such short notice. Especially coming off a loss against Maia just a few weeks ago.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I don't see how Rashad beat Bisping 30-27. In my eyes, Bisping clearly won round 2 and round 3. He was better with the striking and (lazily) worked from his back. Rashad just got a couple of take downs and laid on him.

 

Were you watching that fight on crack? Or don't you realise that takedowns do score points? Bisping clearly won round 2 and 3? LMAO! You have to be the 1st and the only person who I've seen score the fight for Bisping, aside from that moron Ronulo Bittencourt.

 

Rashad Evans was landing punches when he took down Bisping, and even in the stand up he was landing punches and giving Bisping troubles, setting up his takedowns. But of course you never saw Joe Rogan acknowledge any of the punches Rashad was landing in the stand up. Rashad also was the one controlling the pace of the fight.

 

 

He was controlling the pace of the fight? Are you kidding? He laid on top of Bisping the whole time. Every time he went to do his shitty GNP, Bisping barely got touched and was working for an armbar from the bottom.

 

And you do realize Bisping took Rashad down, right? Bisping did more damage (not by much) while standing. Bisping was doing more (not by much) on the ground. Both guys gassed, but Bisping didn't just get a takedown and lay in guard until it was stood up.

 

Both guys looked like shit, but I think Bisping should have won that fight.

 

Bisping did more damage on the ground? Now I know you're really smoking crack. Bisping's submission attempts were never even close, as he was eating punches by a gassed out Rashad.

 

Most of the fight was on the ground with Rashad having top position, now I don't know about you but usually the judges gives the fighter with the top position for the majority of the fight most of the points. Bisping took down Rashad once to how many times Rashad took Bisping down? And Bisping took Rashad down and had top position for a total of 1 second. Rashad didn't really lay and pray Bisping, you need to really examine what real lay and pray is and watch Fujita/Yvel.

 

I'm sure you're one of those people who scored the Rutten/Randleman fight for Bas Rutten, right?

 

Personally, I saw Bisping attempt to do more on the bottom than Rashad did on top. Rashad was landing a couple of shots, but was nowhere near finishing.

 

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

In American judging, it doesn't matter who does more on the ground. All that really matters is the takedown. For some odd reason, the takedown is pointed like one of the strongest things you can do in MMA. On TUF last season, I believe we saw that two takedowns can negate three knockdowns. Someday, maybe they'll figure out that you can't win a fight just on a takedown and it's really just a change of positions. I doubt it though.

 

I didn't realize this was the next UFC event. I suppose I should give predictions...

 

Rashad over Liddell...I think Chuck's over his peak. In the Silva fight, near the end Chuck just fought to win which says a lot about him. Silva would not die, Liddell couldn't put him out, and realizing he might be in danger of losing Liddell began to use takedowns. Chuck is not the same guy he once was. Be it age, injury, burnout, or his lifestyle he's lost the spark. On the flipside, Rashad wants this. He wins this fight, and he's in top contention but loses it and he's back in the muck of the division. I think Chuck will come out swinging, but Rashad will manage to avoid the brunt. As for how Rashad wins...I haven't quite figured that out. Rashad has decent standing strikes, but his bread and butter is the takedown. If he can get Liddell down, he wins. If he can't, he loses. I still say Rashad somehow pulls it off, but it'll be a decision.

 

Hamill over Rich Franklin. I think this is a DANGEROUS fight for Rich. If the Bisping fight had been scored correctly, Hamill would have no losses in the UFC. He's a strong wrestler with a pretty scary dirty boxing style. I think Franklin's a better overall fighter, but we've all seen that being better overall doesn't mean you can beat someone who has a fantastic set of skills in one area. I think Hamill bullies Franklin the entire fight, and catches him in a dirty boxing clinch and works him over for a TKO.

 

Yoshida over Karo, more or less because I don't like Karo.

 

Henderson over Palhares...this is an interesting fight. It's make or break for Dan, and it's obvious that UFC wants to turn Palhares into a star. The problem is, Dan in these kind of situations is very, very dangerous. Dan's always been the kind of guy that wins three then loses one throughout his entire career. He's NEVER been the type to go off on a huge winning streak outside of his initial one. I think Dan's experience, and overall skill will be too much. Dan's dealt with submission wizards, so I don't know what Palhares will be able to offer to challenge him.

 

Kampmann vs. Marquardt is another one where UFC obviously wants it to go a certain way. I have no idea who'll win this one. Nate should be a top contender, but he seems to choke at the "best" possible moments. I can't say who'll win this one.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

By "dealt with" submissions wizards do you mean tapping to the exact same armbar by both Nog's?

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I don't think its fair to say Chuck is losing it because he couldn't finish Silva. COME ON! IT'S FREAKING WANDERLEI! He's gotten knocked out, what, three times in over ten years?

 

It all depends on Chucks knee and if he can still sprawl. I still call for a Chuck KO.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Chuck had some difficulty finishing an over the hill Tito, more then the first fight they had.

 

He was KO'd by Jackson.

 

He was outpointed and outscored against Jardine.

 

He had to resort to tactics he's never used since he became successful in the UFC to beat Silva.

 

That's not a good resume.

 

And for Dan, I was more or less referencing Bustamante and so on. Cause he beat em.

[Lei Tong 0]

And for Dan, I was more or less referencing Bustamante and so on. Cause he beat em.

 

He's won some fairly questionable decisions against submission specialists, which is hardly indicitive that Toquinho has nothing with which to trouble Henderson. In fact, Palhares has one of the more well-rounded top games of anyone Dan has faced in his career, and when put on his back (which has happened a fair bit), Dan has looked... well, like a wrestler on his back. That isn't to say that Dan can't simply come out and blast Palhares away with huge right hands at the opening bell, but to say that Palhares has nothing to offer in the bout is ridiculous. Besides, Henderson hasn't had a great night at MW since Bushido 9.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

By "dealt with" submissions wizards do you mean tapping to the exact same armbar by both Nog's?

 

Considering it took how many submission attempts to make Henderson tap out, I'd say Hendo did quite well against both Nogs, plus he holds a victory over Big Nog.

 

Plus he holds victories over Babalu, Renzo Gracie, Ninja, and Bustamante...

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

In fact, Palhares has one of the more well-rounded top games of anyone Dan has faced in his career, and when put on his back (which has happened a fair bit), Dan has looked... well, like a wrestler on his back.

 

Who has Palhares beaten to make you actually believe this? And old past his prime, getting ready to retire Ivan Salaverry? Please...

[Lei Tong 0]

In fact, Palhares has one of the more well-rounded top games of anyone Dan has faced in his career, and when put on his back (which has happened a fair bit), Dan has looked... well, like a wrestler on his back.

 

Who has Palhares beaten to make you actually believe this? And old past his prime, getting ready to retire Ivan Salaverry? Please...

 

Submitting Acacio & Negao in the same night is nothing to sneeze at, and both Dipp & Moura are also solid fighters.

 

Henderson may have beaten Renzo & Bustamante, but did so before either guy had a chance to get the fight to the ground, and in an uncomfortable weight division for both. The Ninja fight was a close scrap against a guy who's strength is definitely not his BJJ, and the Babalu match wis typical RINGS foolery.

 

On the subject of RINGS... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! Talking up Henderson's win over Minotauro is akin to saying that Joel Casamayor deserves credit for "beating" Jose Armando Santa Cruz. It's easily one of the worst decisions in MMA history.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Submitting Acacio & Negao in the same night is nothing to sneeze at, and both Dipp & Moura are also solid fighters.

 

Henderson may have beaten Renzo & Bustamante, but did so before either guy had a chance to get the fight to the ground, and in an uncomfortable weight division for both. The Ninja fight was a close scrap against a guy who's strength is definitely not his BJJ, and the Babalu match wis typical RINGS foolery.

 

On the subject of RINGS... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! Talking up Henderson's win over Minotauro is akin to saying that Joel Casamayor deserves credit for "beating" Jose Armando Santa Cruz. It's easily one of the worst decisions in MMA history.

 

Never seen the 1st Nogueria fight, so I'll admit my ignorance, but I've seen the Babalu fight and Hendo won that fight fair and square.

 

And has Palhares faced a top 10 level middleweight like Hendo has through out his career? Excatly...

[Lei Tong 0]

And has Palhares faced a top 10 level middleweight like Hendo has through out his career? Excatly...

 

No, but it's not as though there's never been a fighter who's managed to beat the first Top 10 fighter he's faced.

 

As for the Babalu fight, by "RINGS foolery" I mean not only the general inconsistency of the scoring (I thought Babalu did enough to take the second round, even with the guillotine attempt), but just the rules in general. What does it really say about any fighter is he survives on the mat in an org. that doesn't allow punches to the head on the ground?

[TheJuice31 0]

Chuck had some difficulty finishing an over the hill Tito, more then the first fight they had.

 

He was KO'd by Jackson.

 

He was outpointed and outscored against Jardine.

 

He had to resort to tactics he's never used since he became successful in the UFC to beat Silva.

 

That's not a good resume.

 

And for Dan, I was more or less referencing Bustamante and so on. Cause he beat em.

 

Not gonna fight ya on the Jackson, Jardine comments, but if you're gonna knock Chuck for having difficulty finishing Tito, at least mention Evans' showing against Ortiz. The fight entered the books as a draw, but only due to the Ortiz point deduction. Evans was pretty lackluster against an over-the-hill Tito and you can't downplay Liddell's victory over Tito without mentioning that.

 

And by resorting to tactics never used to beat Silva, you make it sound like Liddell had to resort to desperate measures to beat Silva. He won that fight 30-27 in the eyes of most and I look at the pair of third-round takedowns as icing on the cake and not leaving anything to chance. It's not like Liddell was in any serious danger of being finished in that fight.

 

If Liddell comes out guns blazing like he did in the Silva fight, Evans doesn't have a prayer. Like most have said though, it comes down to whether Liddell's hammy can withstand Evans' wrestling.

[Mik 0]

Countdown this Wednesday at 11 PM.

[NoCalMike 0]

I will be hosting this at my house....if you plan on attending shoot me a PM.

[SpikeFayeJettEdBebop 0]

anywhere i canb stream this?? i've been ordering recently but I just went off to college and i'd like to watch so a stream would be the best

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Hit up a local bar and check it there.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

It's been about a year, but I remember the judges scoring being along the lines of 29-28 for Liddell. I think second...maybe...they gave Silva. Liddell realized this, and began to use takedowns for the sake of doing them. He never intended to do anything once he took Silva down. He just did so to gain points because he thought he was in danger.

 

Regardless if he was in danger or not, Liddell, in his head went "I have to score points" which is...uncharacteristic for him. In his prime, he was the type that really didn't seem to care if he lost rounds as long as he won in the end. Against Silva, and probably Jardine (which is where this may have started), he realized he couldn't finish them off and began to panic.

 

If Rashad can survive Liddell's barrage's we'll see this happen again. The only difference will be that Liddell can't take Rashad down.

 

Also, why I don't hold the Tito fight against Rashad...Because Rashad is still young. He's still getting better. Liddell showed a clear downgrade against Tito the third time followed up by two back to back losses in different but similarly poor fashion. That or Tito was being more ballsy then usual. For Rashad, that was probably the biggest fight of his career. It happens to fighters sometimes.

 

Chuck had some difficulty finishing an over the hill Tito, more then the first fight they had.

 

He was KO'd by Jackson.

 

He was outpointed and outscored against Jardine.

 

He had to resort to tactics he's never used since he became successful in the UFC to beat Silva.

 

That's not a good resume.

 

And for Dan, I was more or less referencing Bustamante and so on. Cause he beat em.

 

Not gonna fight ya on the Jackson, Jardine comments, but if you're gonna knock Chuck for having difficulty finishing Tito, at least mention Evans' showing against Ortiz. The fight entered the books as a draw, but only due to the Ortiz point deduction. Evans was pretty lackluster against an over-the-hill Tito and you can't downplay Liddell's victory over Tito without mentioning that.

 

And by resorting to tactics never used to beat Silva, you make it sound like Liddell had to resort to desperate measures to beat Silva. He won that fight 30-27 in the eyes of most and I look at the pair of third-round takedowns as icing on the cake and not leaving anything to chance. It's not like Liddell was in any serious danger of being finished in that fight.

 

If Liddell comes out guns blazing like he did in the Silva fight, Evans doesn't have a prayer. Like most have said though, it comes down to whether Liddell's hammy can withstand Evans' wrestling.

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Mandy Moore + UFC predictions - Dana White acting like a school boy = boner city.