WWE Unforgiven 2008

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I give it a 0 percent chance that Punk wins a feud with Orton. It's not a Punk feud...it's an Orton feud. It's what he'll be doing until they put him back in the title picture.

 

Punk should be happy that he got any kind of a run this early in his career. They'll go back to him eventually...and he didn't have to wait like...say...the Hardy's (assuming Jeff makes it everntually...and that the ECW title counts...) or RVD or Guerrero or Jericho did to get to the top of the mountain. ...he didn't have to get as over as they did either. So he should count it as a win.

[bob_barron 0]

So why weren't they?

 

They were trying to get him over bigtime. Vince thought the underdog thing would work and that's why they kept pushing the story of Punk surviving in spite of the fact that no one believed in him.

 

or how lucky he is,

 

That was more JBL, and Punk beat him three times.

 

You'd think that if they were serious with Punk, they wouldn't have had him losing so much in ECW, so much on SD/ECW/Raw when he was building up MITB and after he won MITB,

 

That I agree with. But they soon realised that Punk was selling a lot of merch for someone in his position and decided to pull the trigger.

 

and losing so much as champion on Raw.

 

?. He lost to Jericho (which was bullshit), and the handicap match.

 

They were just slightly more serious about Punk and his reign than Rey's. And that's not saying much.

 

Not really, given the politics of Rey's win. Rey only became champ b/c Orton was a fuckup and because Patterson finally convinced Vince that the moment of Rey's reign was worth more than putting it on drug addicted Kurt Angle.

 

[bob_barron 0]

I do like the idea of Punk and a group of guys feuding with the Priceless Stable. He already has Kofi and Cryme Tyme to make it 4-on-4. And of course Cena never got his revenge on Orton.

[RedJed 0]

Ok... a former world champion that is one of their few real heels in the entire company, returning after about 6 months away, is possibly tabbed to become the leader of the first significant stable since Evolution (I don't count La Familia as it was basically Edge and a few jobber types), and you have him losing in his first feud back, to a guy they couldn't even win matches that wasn't for the title... you definitely read the WWE's minds.

 

Ultimately, wins and losses aren't as significant as some of us make them out to be here if the guy is over enough to handle such losses, so let's not act like a guy like Orton, who is very over and has gotten the rub enough to where he's defiantely credible, can't put over a guy who they gave the world title to, actually gave a little decent "off the gate" run to in the process, and protected on the way out of the title.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Ok... a former world champion that is one of their few real heels in the entire company, returning after about 6 months away, is possibly tabbed to become the leader of the first significant stable since Evolution (I don't count La Familia as it was basically Edge and a few jobber types), and you have him losing in his first feud back, to a guy they couldn't even win matches that wasn't for the title... you definitely read the WWE's minds.

 

Ultimately, wins and losses aren't as significant as some of us make them out to be here if the guy is over enough to handle such losses, so let's not act like a guy like Orton, who is very over and has gotten the rub enough to where he's defiantely credible, can't put over a guy who they gave the world title to, actually gave a little decent "off the gate" run to in the process, and protected on the way out of the title.

 

I understand this. However what you don't understand is they are not jobbing the guy COMING BACK FROM INJURY so quickly out of the gate. If Punk beats Orton in a feud, it'd be in their second feud after Punk has gotten more established/or Orton has gotten back into the swing of things by then. Since people are projecting Punk to be Orton's first feud, Orton is not losing it in any walk of life. Just look at what bps said. That's exactly what it is. An Orton showcase feud. It will be designed to put over Orton as a monster heel (again) and a strong leader for a new stable. I mean really, you have a new stable ringleader lose in his first feud? REALLY?

 

And Bob, didn't Punk essentially win MITB because of politics involving Jeff Hardy, drugs, wanting to counteract that with pushing a clean wrestler? Yes there was less politics involved with Punk's actual title win, but like you said, it was just "Oh this guy shouldn't be this over... maybe we'll see what he got". The fact they thought he shouldn't have been that over, tells me what they think Punk's value is. And it's not equal to what his value SHOULD be.

[Slickster 0]

This PPV was the first time a world title changed hands in Cleveland since Stone Cold defeated Kane on June 29, 1998 to win the WWE Championship for the second time.

 

Matt Hardy is the third man to win the WWE European Championship before becoming ECW Champion.

[Scroby 0]

I love the bitching about how WWE handled CM Punk. Here's why people are so angry about the way WWE handled CM Punk and his title run, because WWE didn't book it the way people wanted it to be booked. People wanted WWE to book CM Punk as this strong, beating everyone with ease champion pretty much like what WWE did with Cena, but here's the truth about the whole matter.

 

No matter how WWE booked Punk and his title run, someone would have complained about something. When CM Punk got booked to look strong, someone bitched. When Punk won a match, someone would bitch about how it wasn't a clean win so it wasn't good enough or how Punk didn't look strong enough during the match. When Punk lost a match, the entire board would explode in a bitch fest. Jesus Christ, I understand there are CM Punk fans here but holy shit, get over yourselves. Yeah so WWE didn't book Punk to everyone's liking, so what? If WWE did what every fan wanted, WWE would suck.

 

I'm completely fine with WWE taking the belt off Punk right now. Since Cena is gone, this is Punk's chance to really become the big face on Raw and with the way WWE did it, it's perfect.

 

Orton is going to become the #2 heel on Raw and Jericho (as long as Jericho keeps going the way he is going right now.) is the #1 heel on Raw. If what I'm assuming here is correct, then WWE is most likely going to book Punk's feuds with people all the way down to Wrestlemania....or at least Royal Rumble.

 

Punk is going to feud with Orton and his stable of Priceless and Manu (I already hate that name.) probably up to Dec at this point. They'll probably be even a Survivor Series type of match with the team of Punk, Kofi, and Cryme Tyme vs Orton, Priceless, and Manu at Survivor Series. So this all goes up to Dec to where Orton and Punk have the giant blow off, then it's the Royal Rumble.

 

Lets just say WWE books Punk to win the Royal Rumble, Jericho still holds the title till Wrestlemania. Punk and Jericho already have something booked, WWE can play off the history gimmick, and Punk easily becomes the big babyface focal point of Raw, which all leads up to Punk's big win at Wrestlemania.

 

So that's what I'm assuming...but knowing WWE, they'll completely fuck everything up by rushing it and yeah.....Batista will be champion by the year's end.

[slimm44 0]

Pretty sure that was Adamle's storyline.

 

Punk's storyline is underdog champion who nobody thinks can win.

 

The setup for the scramble match was THE CHAMPION ONLY HAS 20 PERCENT CHANCE, HE WILL NOT WIN OMG.

 

Perfect for Punk.

 

Also, Stephanie and Shane made the match, they just had Adamle announce it.

 

Although that's true, you were supposed to conveniently forget that fact, since the scramble was later billed "an Adamle original."

 

Yet during the ECW Scramble Todd Grisham said Pat Patterson came up with the idea.

 

[Silence 0]

Yet during the ECW Scramble Todd Grisham said Pat Patterson came up with the idea.

 

Actually it was Matt Striker who said that, and I was surprised to hear whose idea it was on TV since announcers hardly ever reveal who comes up with match ideas backstage.

 

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I love the bitching about how WWE handled CM Punk. Here's why people are so angry about the way WWE handled CM Punk and his title run, because WWE didn't book it the way people wanted it to be booked. People wanted WWE to book CM Punk as this strong, beating everyone with ease champion pretty much like what WWE did with Cena, but here's the truth about the whole matter.

 

No matter how WWE booked Punk and his title run, someone would have complained about something....

 

Lets just say WWE books Punk to win the Royal Rumble, Jericho still holds the title till Wrestlemania. Punk and Jericho already have something booked, WWE can play off the history gimmick, and Punk easily becomes the big babyface focal point of Raw, which all leads up to Punk's big win at Wrestlemania.

 

So that's what I'm assuming...but knowing WWE, they'll completely fuck everything up by rushing it and yeah.....Batista will be champion by the year's end.

 

I agree with all this 100%. Punk kept the belt way longer than anyone could have reasonably predicted. How many thought he was seriously going to win the big gold belt to begin with? He'll get another reign, probably by WM next year.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

They need to send Tazz back to ECW and promote Striker to SmackDown. He was great.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

I quite enjoyed the show, although the main event was dreadfully dull until the last few minutes. I really like the build Punk-Orton is getting, and the way the 2nd generation faction is developing. Add that to the pretty intense Jericho-HBK feud and I think there's been some very decent writing done lately.

[cd213 0]

To me, Punks reign reminded a little of Orton's first. Give the guy a run to get his feet wet and see how the fans react. It's more then likely he will get another run with the belt once his feud with Orton is over.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

More than anything, Orton's 1st reign was solely to get Lesnar's name out of the record books as "youngest champ ever".

[cabbageboy 0]

First off, I do agree with the hypothesis of Jericho being champion since he's been the most over guy on Raw. Hopefully this run will be better than his undisputed title reign. I wouldn't even mind the Orton/Punk angle if they had booked it a bit different. I would have had Jericho in the Scramble match and held off on the HBK match for another PPV. Second, Punk could show up beaten all to hell and thus Jericho could steal the pin at the end.

 

But to have Punk not even compete was complete crap. It's a bait and switch and also makes Punk look like a, well, punk since he didn't wrestle and a much more banged up Jericho did instead.

[Pythagoras 0]

More than anything, Orton's 1st reign was solely to get Lesnar's name out of the record books as "youngest champ ever".

 

More than anything, Orton's 1st reign was the first plot beat in the HHH v. Batista feud.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

More than anything, Orton's 1st reign was solely to get Lesnar's name out of the record books as "youngest champ ever".

 

More than anything, Orton's 1st reign was the first plot beat in the HHH v. Batista feud.

 

That feud was supposed to be Orton vs. HHH, though.

[RedJed 0]

First off, I do agree with the hypothesis of Jericho being champion since he's been the most over guy on Raw. Hopefully this run will be better than his undisputed title reign. I wouldn't even mind the Orton/Punk angle if they had booked it a bit different. I would have had Jericho in the Scramble match and held off on the HBK match for another PPV. Second, Punk could show up beaten all to hell and thus Jericho could steal the pin at the end.

 

But to have Punk not even compete was complete crap. It's a bait and switch and also makes Punk look like a, well, punk since he didn't wrestle and a much more banged up Jericho did instead.

 

Punk would have looked a lot worse if he was injured and actually worked the match, and to take that a step further, actually jobbed the belt out himself, and didn't lose by never being pinned in the first place. The way he was scrapped from the match was his "out" to save face completely.

 

Plus, I'm willing to bet that he got "screwed" by Adamle, which they will probably go into a bit on Raw tonight. The story will probably be that Punk wanted to still go out there and defend the belt, but Adamle wouldn't allow it. And then Adamle hypocritically gives the slot to a guy who was as injured as Punk. Typical heel GM nonsense.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'm not necessarily against HHH retaining his title, but if that was the plan all along, did they really have to make MVP, Shelton Benjamin and TBK look like geeks on Smackdown and again during the Scramble? At no point in the build up to the match or during the match itself were any of them made to look like any kind of threat to HHH or that they should be taken seriously. Jeff Hardy got off kind of lightly.

 

As for Punk, he did come across as weak by not coming out for the main event. Jericho took a far more severe beating, but he was able to come out. I think Punk may have been the first babyface champion to get laid out before his match, the main event on the PPV no less, and not get to make the heroic comeback to either win against the odds or be screwed by the heel.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

But to have Punk not even compete was complete crap. It's a bait and switch and also makes Punk look like a, well, punk since he didn't wrestle and a much more banged up Jericho did instead.

I agree with you until here. Punk received Orton's Concussion Kick, which has been put over as a CAREET THREATENING MOVE. It put Michaels on the shelf for months. It knocked SUPERMAN CENA out cold. It's been Orton's "no bullshit" move for the last couple of years. So Punk taking it and then either returning for the match, or just turning right around and just showing minor effects? That takes away a lot of the move's credibility, which given how Orton's been booked with it would be detrimental to Orton's return. It'd be similar to when Hogan took Vader's powerbomb and stood right back up. Jericho had time to recover, and given the WWE's explanation of brutal battles (see: anytime somebody practically died in the undercard and made it back out for main event interference) a little bit of time to recover and then get a cheap win is better than immediately no-selling an oddly protected "finisher."

[cabbageboy 0]

This makes me harken back to a Raw in 2002, the one where RVD seemingly beat The Undertaker for the undisputed title. I forget exactly how but RVD was beat down earlier in the show and may have had a concussion. But when the time came, he actually wrestled and almost won the belt (this was the match Flair restarted).

 

My point is any sort of viable babyface competes and guts it out. Punk's title run was certainly a bizarre one though, wasn't it? He didn't really win the belt in an actual match, just attacked Edge and cashed in MITB. Then he lost by not even competing in a crazy gimmick match.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Obviously if they had to write him out of the match, they wanted a new champion. It's either this or he is there in person to lose the belt physically. It's like some people think if he was allowed into the match, he was going to win for sure.

[Black Lushus 0]

They should have just had Punk get hit by a car in the parking garage...the driver would be Afa jr.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Did he do it for the people.... did he do it for Deuce?

[DarKnight 0]

The thing that I don't get is, why didn't they just do Punk/Jericho at SummerSlam? Instead, we had to have fucking JBL get a title shot again, and Michaels and Jericho weren't even booked on that show (though there was an awesome angle between the 2). There was also the 3 way match on Raw before SummerSlam between Jericho/JBL/Punk, so they could have just had Jericho win that and get the title shot. Since they ended up putting the belt on Jericho anyway, it doesn't really make much sense.

[Epic Reine 0]

I really dislike it when people show up street fights in their normal wrestling gear. HBK had the right idea tonight, Jericho did not.

[DarKnight 0]

I really dislike it when people show up street fights in their normal wrestling gear. HBK had the right idea tonight, Jericho did not.

 

I was thinking that same exact thing last night. Its also really hard to get used to Jericho wearing trunks, as it just looks bizarre.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Please tell me some of the people who are arguing this as being a great ending to the PPV actually watched the fucking thing? I know one dude who has been here arguing this consistently didn't. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Afa Jr. looks like shit with that group... I hope Orton kicks him in the head 5 or 6 months down the line and he's never seen again.

 

 

[King Cucaracha 0]

That might be one of the dumbest endings to a PPV in recent memory.

 

1) Big Show's attack on Undertaker ended pretty well with Vickie spitting in Taker's face. But... Show turning. Firstly, who didn't see THAT coming!? Second, how many turns is this now, 10, 15? Third, Undertaker/Big Show again = meh. And fourth, how the hell did they mess up the momentum Show had post-Mayweather so badly by doing absolutely nothing with him until turning him?

 

2) CM Punk losing the title without even being in the match wasn't a great decision. Having it end the show was worse.

 

3) Okay, so you do an injury angle on the World Champion. So, you have CM Punk get kicked in the head and replace him with... the only man in the entire arena who was more injured than him!? And then have that person win the title!? What the fuck is that!?

 

4) Jericho beats the hell out of Shawn Michaels at GAB and he spends the night in the hospital. Shawn gives him an even worse beating in their epic grudge blow-off match and Jericho is SO injured, he manages to avoid a trip to the hospital all together and wins the World Title as a last minute replacement. Can ANYONE see the logic in that!?

 

5) The match sucked.

 

 

All in all it was another pretty good PPV for 2008, but the ending was so weak.

[Hawk 34 0]

Please tell me some of the people who are arguing this as being a great ending to the PPV actually watched the fucking thing? I know one dude who has been here arguing this consistently didn't. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Afa Jr. looks like shit with that group... I hope Orton kicks him in the head 5 or 6 months down the line and he's never seen again.

 

Afa Jr. doesn't really fit the apparent image of the 3G stable but they will need some form of an enforcer and he was probably the best option of those available. It was slightly odd to see someone doing the crazy samoan gimmick and speaking good english. They don't often do that.