WWE Unforgiven 2008

[Epic Reine 0]

Bret Hart loses to his brother Owen at WMX in the opening match only to come back 2 hours later and win the world title in the main event.

 

Chris Jericho loses to Shawn Michaels in an unsanctioned street fight and is beaten up pretty badly only to come back an hour later to win the world title.

 

Yea, not quite the same thing.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

4) Jericho beats the hell out of Shawn Michaels at GAB and he spends the night in the hospital. Shawn gives him an even worse beating in their epic grudge blow-off match and Jericho is SO injured, he manages to avoid a trip to the hospital all together and wins the World Title as a last minute replacement. Can ANYONE see the logic in that!?

 

Well keep in mind Jericho is like 36/37/38, Shawn is almost 45. One would think the dude who's younger, had a 2 year layoff not too long ago, and has more "meat" on him would recover faster than the older guy who's always banged up and looks like a skinny geek.

[Hawk 34 0]

4) Jericho beats the hell out of Shawn Michaels at GAB and he spends the night in the hospital. Shawn gives him an even worse beating in their epic grudge blow-off match and Jericho is SO injured, he manages to avoid a trip to the hospital all together and wins the World Title as a last minute replacement. Can ANYONE see the logic in that!?

 

Well keep in mind Jericho is like 36/37/38, Shawn is almost 45. One would think the dude who's younger, had a 2 year layoff not too long ago, and has more "meat" on him would recover faster than the older guy who's always banged up and looks like a skinny geek.

 

Let's keep in mind that Jericho did NOTHING in the match. He took a full minute to get to the ring and as soon as he entered, he took a spear from Batista and rolled out to the floor until the last 10 seconds. It's not as if Jericho was hopping around the ring during the match doing lionsaults.

 

 

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

4) Jericho beats the hell out of Shawn Michaels at GAB and he spends the night in the hospital. Shawn gives him an even worse beating in their epic grudge blow-off match and Jericho is SO injured, he manages to avoid a trip to the hospital all together and wins the World Title as a last minute replacement. Can ANYONE see the logic in that!?

 

Well keep in mind Jericho is like 36/37/38, Shawn is almost 45. One would think the dude who's younger, had a 2 year layoff not too long ago, and has more "meat" on him would recover faster than the older guy who's always banged up and looks like a skinny geek.

 

Let's keep in mind that Jericho did NOTHING in the match. He took a full minute to get to the ring and as soon as he entered, he took a spear from Batista and rolled out to the floor until the last 10 seconds. It's not as if Jericho was hopping around the ring during the match doing lionsaults.

 

Were you trying to refute my point or add to it?

[Hawk 34 0]

4) Jericho beats the hell out of Shawn Michaels at GAB and he spends the night in the hospital. Shawn gives him an even worse beating in their epic grudge blow-off match and Jericho is SO injured, he manages to avoid a trip to the hospital all together and wins the World Title as a last minute replacement. Can ANYONE see the logic in that!?

 

Well keep in mind Jericho is like 36/37/38, Shawn is almost 45. One would think the dude who's younger, had a 2 year layoff not too long ago, and has more "meat" on him would recover faster than the older guy who's always banged up and looks like a skinny geek.

 

Let's keep in mind that Jericho did NOTHING in the match. He took a full minute to get to the ring and as soon as he entered, he took a spear from Batista and rolled out to the floor until the last 10 seconds. It's not as if Jericho was hopping around the ring during the match doing lionsaults.

 

Were you trying to refute my point or add to it?

 

Adding. People are trying to say that there was no way Jericho should've come back from such a vicious beating but he really didn't. He never showed signs of fast healing powers and the only true physical movement he made was rolling into the ring onto a laid out Kane.

[King Cucaracha 0]

All valid arguements. But surely the only arguement should be, wrestling logic says different. If a heel beats up a face and the face vows revenge and you build up the match as 'an eye for an eye', when the face inevitably gets revenge, surely you should have the retribution do as much if not more damage? Even if the heel is almost ten years younger and he doesn't actually do much when he comes back. Sane booking says you don't undercut the impact of a beating you've spent 2/3 months building to.

 

The entire thing flies in the face of sane booking. It's like a cliché bad Russo-storyline. They built the classic scenario of the face getting sneak-attacked before his match and the tease of him needing to be replaced before the show... and then, you swerve everyone and have the HEEL be the hero who defies his injuries to come out and win the World Title, while the face just presumably stays injured*, because it's UNPREDICTABLE~!

 

 

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

[Hawk 34 0]

All valid arguements. But surely the only arguement should be, wrestling logic says different. If a heel beats up a face and the face vows revenge and you build up the match as 'an eye for an eye', when the face inevitably gets revenge, surely you should have the retribution do as much if not more damage? Even if the heel is almost ten years younger and he doesn't actually do much when he comes back. Sane booking says you don't undercut the impact of a beating you've spent 2/3 months building to.

 

The entire thing flies in the face of sane booking. It's like a cliché bad Russo-storyline. They built the classic scenario of the face getting sneak-attacked before his match and the tease of him needing to be replaced before the show... and then, you swerve everyone and have the HEEL be the hero who defies his injuries to come out and win the World Title, while the face just presumably stays injured*, because it's UNPREDICTABLE~!

 

 

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

 

You can probably expect Punk to have a band-aid on his forehead tonight and a little bruise makeup but nothing to indicate severe injuries. He'll also have taped ribs for good measure.

[Boxer 0]

All valid arguements. But surely the only arguement should be, wrestling logic says different. If a heel beats up a face and the face vows revenge and you build up the match as 'an eye for an eye', when the face inevitably gets revenge, surely you should have the retribution do as much if not more damage? Even if the heel is almost ten years younger and he doesn't actually do much when he comes back. Sane booking says you don't undercut the impact of a beating you've spent 2/3 months building to.

 

The entire thing flies in the face of sane booking. It's like a cliché bad Russo-storyline. They built the classic scenario of the face getting sneak-attacked before his match and the tease of him needing to be replaced before the show... and then, you swerve everyone and have the HEEL be the hero who defies his injuries to come out and win the World Title, while the face just presumably stays injured*, because it's UNPREDICTABLE~!

 

 

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the sole purpose of NOT showing punk getting either stretcher out or loaded into an ambulance was because Adamle said their was a chance he could compete? So all we know is that maybe he was just in the locker room the whole time being looked after? Maybe it was done to show some suspense that maybe Punk would return later that night?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

That made Punk seem even more of an afterthought. The World champion of the brand gets laid out, and we see nothing more of him the rest of the night. After Adamle said Punk might not be able to make it, did they even give an update on Punk's condition?

[JPopStarKami 0]

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

That made Punk seem even more of an afterthought. The World champion of the brand gets laid out, and we see nothing more of him the rest of the night. After Adamle said Punk might not be able to make it, did they even give an update on Punk's condition?

 

Find out tonight on Monday Night Raw!

[King Cucaracha 0]

* Anyone else find it funny, they didn't even show Punk being loaded in an ambulance or so much as getting attended to by medical personnel. You just see Punk getting kicked and that's the last you see of him.

That made Punk seem even more of an afterthought. The World champion of the brand gets laid out, and we see nothing more of him the rest of the night. After Adamle said Punk might not be able to make it, did they even give an update on Punk's condition?

 

Lawler said right before the main something along the lines of "I tried to get an update, but nobody's saying anything." So, no.

 

I mean, surely they could have just showed him KOed with people crowding around after the Women's Match, then stalled for a minute before Adamle came out for the announcement. Then again, I guess there wasn't any fat to trim from the epic Big Show/Undertaker brawl to allow like 10/15 seconds for that!

[RepoMan 0]

Let's be honest here, if anyone other than Punk was Champ, everyone on the board would be begging to strike while the Iron is hot with Jericho. I havn't seen a heel get this much heat in years, I'm glad they're letting Jericho carry the ball.

 

It's not like Punk was loosing anyheat in his underdog role to begin with. He's still one of the main event level faces on Raw.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Adding. People are trying to say that there was no way Jericho should've come back from such a vicious beating but he really didn't. He never showed signs of fast healing powers and the only true physical movement he made was rolling into the ring onto a laid out Kane.

 

I mentioned this earlier in this topic, but it apparently went unnoticed...

 

Since when does a Batista spinebuster damage Kane, of all people, enough to be pinned twice?!?!

 

The ending was ludicrous!

 

As far as Punk, he really was a fluke champion (in story terms). If he ever wins another World title, it'll have to be by earning it this time. That's the only way he'll ever be a credible champion. So, having him lose it the way he did is almost like how he won it. I can see a lot of good story possibilities coming from this, and what the WWE did has purpose, I'm sure.

 

With Cena out, though, prepare for a Batista title reign in the very near future. What better way to put Batista over than for him to beat the most over heel?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

With Cena out, though, prepare for a Batista title reign in the very near future. What better way to put Batista over than for him to beat the most over heel?

 

Seriously... What is it with your man love with Batista?

[Noah Fentz 0]

I can't stand Batista, and I REALLY hate his little machine gun entrance, but face it, he's the next champ.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Chris Jericho is a man of his word. He did save us (and himself)!

[imgonnagetchusucka 0]

For the people thinking Punk got buried...how exactly?

 

The Randy Orton "Kick of Death" has been put over for a long time as a career ender. Regardless of how bad Jericho was beaten....that kick of Orton's has been ending people on TV for what? 1 year...2 years?

 

If Punk came out after that and kept his title, any and all build up the kicked has recieved as a "career ender" is flushed down the toilet.

 

Punk should stay off of TV tonight, come back next week, and since Orton supposedly isn't cleared to wrestle yet, Punk can run through the NexGen stable until he finally gets to Orton.

 

Hopefully we can see angry/aggressive CM Punk rather than "I love competition" CM Punk.

 

As for the fued itself, Orton kind of has to beat Punk in the long run...unless they pro-long the fued and have more than 1 match. Maybe Orton can win an initial contest or 2 with help and lose the blow-off in a gimmick match.

 

But if done correctly.....not that I have faith they will....Punk can come out of this way more over than he was when he held the title. Jericho may be the best heel but Orton is the most hated right now in my eyes.

 

I think they have no choice but to build Punk even more.

 

The top RAW babyface's are Batista...Mysterio...and Punk...and obviously HBK when he's in the mix.

 

No way this was a burial.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I can't stand Batista, and I REALLY hate his little machine gun entrance, but face it, he's the next champ.

 

I can see Jericho holding the belt until Wrestlemania.

 

Batista doesn't really need the belt unless it's in a transitional role.

[Noah Fentz 0]

For anyone who didn't see it, I found a link to Unforgiven.

 

Am I permitted to post it here?

 

(Since I don't know, PM me for the link until I know it's permitted)

[DarKnight 0]

If Punk came out after that and kept his title, any and all build up the kicked has recieved as a "career ender" is flushed down the toilet.

 

Good. That "kick of doom" shit is some of the worst stuff they've ever passed off as something dangerous. To a wrestling fan, a kick to the head doesn't mean anything, so therefore Punk looks weak by not at least trying to be in the match. And even though I throw the term "buried" around a lot, Punk will end up doing nothing out of this, as he will lose the feud to Orton, and then what, get a shot at Jericho? He'll lose that too. Punk isn't one of those guys that WWE takes the title off of, and then pushes after it.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

If Punk came out after that and kept his title, any and all build up the kicked has recieved as a "career ender" is flushed down the toilet.

 

Good. That "kick of doom" shit is some of the worst stuff they've ever passed off as something dangerous. To a wrestling fan, a kick to the head doesn't mean anything, so therefore Punk looks weak by not at least trying to be in the match.

 

You should let me test this theory out on you.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

To a wrestling fan? Ask them. They buy the move as a legitimate striking finisher. Remember, this is the same company that pushed a simple elbow drop mixed with gestures as a legitimate finisher as well. The Concussion Kick is awesome considering.

[imgonnagetchusucka 0]

If Punk came out after that and kept his title, any and all build up the kicked has recieved as a "career ender" is flushed down the toilet.

 

Good. That "kick of doom" shit is some of the worst stuff they've ever passed off as something dangerous. To a wrestling fan, a kick to the head doesn't mean anything, so therefore Punk looks weak by not at least trying to be in the match. And even though I throw the term "buried" around a lot, Punk will end up doing nothing out of this, as he will lose the feud to Orton, and then what, get a shot at Jericho? He'll lose that too. Punk isn't one of those guys that WWE takes the title off of, and then pushes after it.

 

 

It doesn't matter what you think of the kick. Fact is, it's over as a career ending move. They started it in the the middle of the big concussion controversy in sports and it worked. John Cena's finish is way less dangerous looking than a punt to the head....alot of moves are. They are over anyway. And if Punk loses the fued to Orton...it doesnt really matter as long as it's a good program and Punk isnt made to look like a chump.

 

Randy Orton being the biggest heel in the company can make Punk into a top face for the forseeable future regardless of Punk winning or losing. Steve Austin lost matches to Savio Vega on the way to fueding with Bret Hart....and oh by the way, losing the fued essentially. And no...nobody go crazy. In no way am I comparing the 2 other than 2 say for a babyface, the chase sometimes pays of more than the payoff of winning the match/fued.

 

And yea....Punk will get the title again some day. He got his run and management was very satisfied according to Meltzer. Just like Edge, Punk will get it again.

[Noah Fentz 0]

To a wrestling fan? Ask them. They buy the move as a legitimate striking finisher. Remember, this is the same company that pushed a simple elbow drop mixed with gestures as a legitimate finisher as well. The Concussion Kick is awesome considering.

 

Agreed.

 

Orton's concussion kick is specifically designed to show how cold and calculating he is, it defines his character more than his repertoire. He shows absolutely no remorse when he "victimizes" someone with it...

 

It's perfect.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I guess he wants Orton to be doing burning hammers or the northern lights bombs.

[Maztinho 0]

To a wrestling fan? Ask them. They buy the move as a legitimate striking finisher. Remember, this is the same company that pushed a simple elbow drop mixed with gestures as a legitimate finisher as well. The Concussion Kick is awesome considering.

 

But... The Rock took off his elbow pad. And the momentum... THE MOMENTUM!!!

 

And I want anyone on the board who doesn't see it as legit to get on your hands and knees and have a person PUNT you in the face and then see how fine and dandy you are doing afterwards.

 

I have no problems with how this was done, I am weary on how it's going to go. Punk'll get another run at some point and the Net will collectively cream itself again, que cera... cera.

[cabbageboy 0]

I mentioned RVD coming back from an injury to almost beat UT on Raw in 2002, but how about something more recent? What about last year when Orton kept doing the Kick of Doom to him on a weekly basis, yet Van Dam managed to show up at the PPV and WIN the match?

 

Seriously, try telling a friend who didn't see the PPV what happened on this show. Tell someone "Yeah, Orton kicked Punk in the head and he wasn't able to wrestle, but Jericho took his spot after having the crap beat out of him for 25 minutes....and won the title."

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I mentioned RVD coming back from an injury to almost beat UT on Raw in 2002, but how about something more recent? What about last year when Orton kept doing the Kick of Doom to him on a weekly basis, yet Van Dam managed to show up at the PPV and WIN the match?

 

Seriously, try telling a friend who didn't see the PPV what happened on this show. Tell someone "Yeah, Orton kicked Punk in the head and he wasn't able to wrestle, but Jericho took his spot after having the crap beat out of him for 25 minutes....and won the title."

 

Well if the friend cared enough to find out PPV results, he/she is a fan. And any logical fan would understand what "Orton kicked Punk in the head" means. And they will remember that it's one of the most devastating and well protected finishers in the company today. And to say "Jericho won the title" is oversimplifying things. Clearly such a statement is a misleading and poorly structured one. As it really should be "Jericho simply entered, got laid out, rolled over, and won the title in the last seconds."

 

But of course, not if they are from Louisville. If they are from Louisville, CM Punk got buried.

[imgonnagetchusucka 0]

 

But of course, not if they are from Louisville. If they are from Louisville, CM Punk got buried.

 

Care to enlighten me on the whole "if they are from Louisville, Punk got buried" thing..

 

[King Cucaracha 0]

But of course, not if they are from Louisville. If they are from Louisville, CM Punk got buried.

 

Care to enlighten me on the whole "if they are from Louisville, Punk got buried" thing..

 

cabbageboy and DarKnight, basically.

 

 

I don't think Punk was 'buried'. That doesn't make Jericho winning the title a good ending. The only people who seem to be defending it are people creaming themselves over Y2J, so they've got no right to complain about the pro-Punk crowd. Same story, different subject.

 

It's not bad booking because it damages Punk. It's not good booking because it benefits Jericho. Bad booking is bad booking. This was bad booking.