WWE Raw - September 8, 2008

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I believe Punk is sXe, but I also believe it's a gimmick. Remember the best gimmicks are exaggerations of your real personality.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

My post was in response to everyone saying punk wasn't there because of a possible failed test.

 

Now I feel like a dick. But really, anybody who thinks that he failed a test or whatever must know little. What with the fact that nobody, on the inside or outside, has ever claimed anything to the contrary. Kayfabe died out forever ago. And I'm more than willing to eat my own words on this issue if I am wrong. Which I severely doubt that I am.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I believe Punk is sXe, but I also believe it's a gimmick. Remember the best gimmicks are exaggerations of your real personality.

 

Absolutely. It is most definitely an extension of his personality. But when you post things like it is just a gimmick, how do you expect people to take it?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Forgive me in the post-Benoit world when I don't take anything anyone in the business says seriously. I don't know Punk personally. I doubt most of you guys know Punk personally besides the ROH fans that might have hung out with him at one point or another. No one can really ever say for sure. To say he is TRULY 100% sXe and that it isn't to be debated, is just as erroneous as saying he isn't sXe.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I admit it. I totally bought when Chris Benoit said he would never kill his wife, youngest child, then himself. Hook, line and sinker.

 

Like I said, I would be more than happy to eat these words.

 

Match me.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

 

Yes. Wrestlers have always been truthful about their habits.

 

 

 

 

No, but for Christ's sake, there are some things that I wouldn't bother disputing. Like, for instance, a performer who has been able to back up a claim that nobody has even bothered to refute for over a decade.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

 

Yes. Wrestlers have always been truthful about their habits.

 

 

 

 

No, but for Christ's sake, there are some things that I wouldn't bother disputing. Like, for instance, a performer who has been able to back up a claim that nobody has even bothered to refute for over a decade.

 

I'm daring like that.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

 

Yes. Wrestlers have always been truthful about their habits.

 

 

 

 

No, but for Christ's sake, there are some things that I wouldn't bother disputing. Like, for instance, a performer who has been able to back up a claim that nobody has even bothered to refute for over a decade.

 

I really don't care, but why does it bother you so much that someone would suggest its just a gimmick? At the end of the day does it really matter? Does it make him any less of a worker?

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

 

Yes. Wrestlers have always been truthful about their habits.

 

 

 

 

No, but for Christ's sake, there are some things that I wouldn't bother disputing. Like, for instance, a performer who has been able to back up a claim that nobody has even bothered to refute for over a decade.

 

I really don't care, but why does it bother you so much that someone would suggest its just a gimmick? At the end of the day does it really matter? Does it make him any less of a worker?

 

You care enough to ask. And this is a discussion forum, so instead of being bothered, perhaps I'm interested in the discussion in and of itself. It does matter, because he is accentuating a personal strength, which tends to lead the performer in a successful direction.

[sluggo 0]

I believe the reason why Raw is pushing big matches on tv is due to MNF. WWE wants to continue to post those stupid fuckin . So next week they'll say more people watched Raw than football. Probably the reason why the title got changed last night. People who saw the ppv told people who didn't and they'll watch to see what happened. 15 more weeks of ppv matches on Raw then back to the shitter again.

 

Orton had this music since he won the title last.

 

That dude does look a lot like Umaga.

 

I was thinking the Kane vs. Rey match would be for Rey's mask but since it's next week, who knows.

 

Paul London needs to go to ECW so he can have a nice program with EB.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I don't understand what you're going for here? Are you trying to tell me wrestlers are always truthful about their habits and what they do outside the ring?

 

Yes. Wrestlers have always been truthful about their habits.

 

 

No, but for Christ's sake, there are some things that I wouldn't bother disputing. Like, for instance, a performer who has been able to back up a claim that nobody has even bothered to refute for over a decade.

 

I really don't care, but why does it bother you so much that someone would suggest its just a gimmick? At the end of the day does it really matter? Does it make him any less of a worker?

 

You care enough to ask. And this is a discussion forum, so instead of being bothered, perhaps I'm interested in the discussion in and of itself. It does matter, because he is accentuating a personal strength, which tends to lead the performer in a successful direction.

 

 

I just find it fascinating that people still take wrestlers at their word so strongly. I mean, I have no reason to believe CM Punk isn't drug free, but at the same time I don't know the man so I can't say its not just a gimmick.

 

And if he really lives that lifestyle, thats a very good thing, but it wouldn't change my opinion of his work one way or the other.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

You do realize that Eddie Guerrero considered himself "clean" when in fact he was taking tons of steroids and a lot of painkillers, right? It's very possible that wrestlers aren't going to consider Punk lying or going back on his word if he does steroids, which by the literal definition of "straight edge/clean cut", is a drug. Now I'm not going to attempt to speak with any certainty on this matter, and neither should you. So let's just move on.

 

( above statement was addressed to mellow)

 

I'm honestly in the same boat as Celtic Jobber. I don't really care either way. I'm just tossing out what I think.

[Jingus 0]

I'll just chime in that, if any wrestler ever tells me that they've never done drugs, I'm gonna assume that they're lying until definitively proven otherwise.

 

As for disproof: a buddy of mine claimed he once saw Punk out back of a ROH show drinking a beer. He's not a completely trustworthy guy, but at least there's your "uncredible" source you asked about.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I'll just chime in that, if any wrestler ever tells me that they've never done drugs, I'm gonna assume that they're lying until definitively proven otherwise.

 

As for disproof: a buddy of mine claimed he once saw Punk out back of a ROH show drinking a beer. He's not a completely trustworthy guy, but at least there's your "uncredible" source you asked about.

 

Not to mention those that were flipping out when he was "drinking a beer at the RAW XV celebration," even though it was revealed to be a Pepsi shortly thereafter.

 

So, yeah. Punk does drink Pepsi, a source of caffeine. So he's not completely drug free.

 

There. I lose.

[goldengreek 0]

Forgive me in the post-Benoit world when I don't take anything anyone in the business says seriously. I don't know Punk personally. I doubt most of you guys know Punk personally besides the ROH fans that might have hung out with him at one point or another. No one can really ever say for sure. To say he is TRULY 100% sXe and that it isn't to be debated, is just as erroneous as saying he isn't sXe.

 

 

Punk is friends with a friend of mine. I have only met Punk a few times briefly myself, but my friend hangs out with him alot when Punk has a chance to visit Chicago. They work out together, hang out and grab some lunch. According to my friend he has not seen Punk smoke cigarettes. weed, drink or do any drugs. Take it for what its worth.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

We could just ask Bix.

[imgonnagetchusucka 0]

I have friends in the indy business, a couple of decent name guys, one currently in TNA. I myself was trained by Steve Bradley who was in OVW and WWE was high on him for awhile. I believe he was a part of the camp Edge and Angle came out of and Teddy Hart got himself fired for the 1st time. Oh trust me.....there's some awesome stories he tells about that camp.

 

Anyhow, I no longer work but I still tag along to shows, dinner and whatever else when I'm invited and there are shows in the area.

 

I've been out in groups with Punk on probably a dozen occassions and have never seen him drink, smoke or do much of anything other than be a cocky bastard, in a tongue in cheek way which is prolly why at 1 point he was constantly in the WWE dog house.

 

Now? Who knows, maybe he does. Prolly not though. He was very non chalant about it all. Not one of those hardline straightedgers at all. As a matter of fact he encouraged people, since he always drove. He was the sober dude egging everyone on.

[Silence 0]

I don't know what's going on, but that was quite possibly the worst Mickie James match since her debut feud with Ashley. Everything was way off and Beth didn't even need to use a finisher to beat her. Lawler or Cole made a note that she was FINALLY getting a rematch - kind of pointing out she apparently wasn't important enough to get one on the Raw after SummerSlam - and with the match with Candace already announced, the result was never in doubt.

 

Sadly, it seems Mickie and Beth are incapable of having a good match with each other. I didn't like their previous matches either.

 

I wonder if the bellbottoms are making Mickie sloppy most of the time like she's afraid to trip over them?

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I wonder if the bellbottoms are making Mickie sloppy most of the time like she's afraid to trip over them?

 

Yeah, that could be it. She should just start wearing the skirts again.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Wow, two matches that should really, really, really be reserved for pay-per-view.

 

RAW's ratings could be noticeably higher by consistently making PPV-quality main events and announcing them a week in advance, like tonight. The roster is deep enough to support doing this. Maybe they're finally getting it.

PPV-quality main events should be saved for PPV's, with rare appearances on free TV. Ratings are pretty irrelevant, except when it comes to re-upping TV contracts. They don't get money from advertising.

 

Personally, since I don't order PPV's, I like seeing the big matches on free TV, but from a business standpoint, it's best to get fans to pay for those matches.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Manu looks like shit. He really doesn't fit with Rhodes and Dibiase. Joe Hennig or DH Smith would have been 100x better. How can they shit on Morishima for a bad look when you have Manu looking like a fat biker.

[bob_barron 0]

I'll just chime in that, if any wrestler ever tells me that they've never done drugs, I'm gonna assume that they're lying until definitively proven otherwise.

 

As for disproof: a buddy of mine claimed he once saw Punk out back of a ROH show drinking a beer. He's not a completely trustworthy guy, but at least there's your "uncredible" source you asked about.

 

 

Well I'm sold, especially given how anti-Punk you are.

 

Also, a lot of the heat Punk has on him is because he doesn't go drinking with the boys because of he's sXe.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Wow, two matches that should really, really, really be reserved for pay-per-view.

 

RAW's ratings could be noticeably higher by consistently making PPV-quality main events and announcing them a week in advance, like tonight. The roster is deep enough to support doing this. Maybe they're finally getting it.

PPV-quality main events should be saved for PPV's, with rare appearances on free TV. Ratings are pretty irrelevant, except when it comes to re-upping TV contracts. They don't get money from advertising.

 

Personally, since I don't order PPV's, I like seeing the big matches on free TV, but from a business standpoint, it's best to get fans to pay for those matches.

To which then people complain about how shitty RAW is, or how there wasn't enough emphasis on wrestling that night, or they're not doing a good enough job to make people want to buy the PPVs, etc. So they're pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't in the eyes of many fans, at least from what I've observed.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Wow, two matches that should really, really, really be reserved for pay-per-view.

 

RAW's ratings could be noticeably higher by consistently making PPV-quality main events and announcing them a week in advance, like tonight. The roster is deep enough to support doing this. Maybe they're finally getting it.

PPV-quality main events should be saved for PPV's, with rare appearances on free TV. Ratings are pretty irrelevant, except when it comes to re-upping TV contracts. They don't get money from advertising.

 

Personally, since I don't order PPV's, I like seeing the big matches on free TV, but from a business standpoint, it's best to get fans to pay for those matches.

To which then people complain about how shitty RAW is, or how there wasn't enough emphasis on wrestling that night, or they're not doing a good enough job to make people want to buy the PPVs, etc. So they're pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't in the eyes of many fans, at least from what I've observed.

 

I always thought the biggest match the WWE should give away on free TV would be a midcard title defense. But you can thank the Monday Night Wars for dramatically changing how Vince thinks his shows should be booked.

 

[Exslade ZX 0]

Wow, two matches that should really, really, really be reserved for pay-per-view.

 

RAW's ratings could be noticeably higher by consistently making PPV-quality main events and announcing them a week in advance, like tonight. The roster is deep enough to support doing this. Maybe they're finally getting it.

PPV-quality main events should be saved for PPV's, with rare appearances on free TV. Ratings are pretty irrelevant, except when it comes to re-upping TV contracts. They don't get money from advertising.

 

Personally, since I don't order PPV's, I like seeing the big matches on free TV, but from a business standpoint, it's best to get fans to pay for those matches.

To which then people complain about how shitty RAW is, or how there wasn't enough emphasis on wrestling that night, or they're not doing a good enough job to make people want to buy the PPVs, etc. So they're pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't in the eyes of many fans, at least from what I've observed.

 

I always thought the biggest match the WWE should give away on free TV would be a midcard title defense. But you can thank the Monday Night Wars for dramatically changing how Vince thinks his shows should be booked.

Well if the "biggest match" on the show is to be, say....Santino vs Kofi, then what are Jericho, HBK, Batista, Punk, Orton, Kane, etc. to do during the show? Only have backstage vignettes/promos, and tag team matches?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Backstage vignettes, promos, jobber matches, multi-man matches, or be held off the show altogether. It's not NECESSARY to always physically see main eventers on the show. Just the guys that fans are likely to pay to come to see. The point is to make fans want to pay to see those guys wrestle the big time matches.

 

However I recognize that it's impossible to go back to that model.

[The Truthiness 0]

I can't believe people are still doubting Punk being Straight Edge, I also can't believe people use the term "post-Benoit World".

 

 

Show was good, I wish Punk was still champ.

[JRE 0]

One recent Smackdown featured Jeff Hardy vs. Benjamin as the big match then a women's tag match, Kendrick/Goldman, Triple H/Kenny, Big Show/new guy, and promos. I think that's a current example of the type of shows we are discussing.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

One recent Smackdown featured Jeff Hardy vs. Benjamin as the big match then a women's tag match, Kendrick/Goldman, Triple H/Kenny, Big Show/new guy, and promos. I think that's a current example of the type of shows we are discussing.

 

Yep. That's how I'd do it all the time. It's not like I'm going to be threatened by TNA and their monster ratings...

 

Ironically when the WWE does it, people think they are in "holding pattern". That shows just how different today's fans and insiders see things now.