The 2008 MLB Offseason Thread

[Smartly Pretty 0]

No one can justify this lunacy. No one. Unless you take the "The Yankees are great villains" angle. Yes, they are great villains...and I hate them. They are the Satan of the sports world.

 

Justifying this lunacy isn't even difficult, man. The Yankees make the most money, they get to spend the most money. You want the Brewers to dish out more cash, go to more games, buy more Ryan Braun jerseys. The only unjustifiable part of the process is the draft pick situation—really, the Yankees should lose their first round pick for the next three years. Not their first three of next year.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

There just seems to be too many big egos making top dollar for the Yankees to be a contender. I saw they will finish at .500 or maybe a handful of games above, but well short of the playoffs.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Now, for the non-Yankee fans, here's why the team is still in trouble.

 

1. The Yankees really haven't gotten better. Abreu, Mussina, Giambi and Pettitte produced exactly the same win shares last season as Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett combined. The real question for the Yankees is whether or not they get improved contributions from Chien-Ming Wang, Phil Hughes, Jorge Posada and Joba Chamberlain.

 

2. Their core players are into their 30s, including Posada, Jeter, Rodriguez, Damon and Matsui. These guys are more likely to get worse than get better.

 

3. Derek Jeter is still the starting shortstop. C.C. Sabathia may not look so good when all those grounders start rolling past him.

 

4. The Yankees surrendered three rounds of draft picks. Four years from now they've got a lost draft and a bunch of aging players. You think they'd learn by now.

[Brett Favre 0]

The Satan of MLB doesn't even make sense. What do they trick teams into signing Mike Hampton to 100 million dollar contracts? Are they tempting the Brewers to start Craig Counsell?

[The Niggardly King 0]

I bet Jason Giambi will wind up a White Sock and annoy the hell out of everybody, and the fifth or sixth year of "Paul Konerko to the Angels?!?" will begin, because if ever there were a guy that fits the L.A. Angels' style of play, it's an aging lump who couldn't steal second if you moved it to first.

 

Hey, fuck you... we don't want him.

[Guest Smues]

I've read that Giambi might go back to Oakland. That would be interesting.

[Guest Czecherbear]

Justifying this lunacy isn't even difficult, man. The Yankees make the most money, they get to spend the most money. You want the Brewers to dish out more cash, go to more games, buy more Ryan Braun jerseys. The only unjustifiable part of the process is the draft pick situation—really, the Yankees should lose their first round pick for the next three years. Not their first three of next year.

You're right, but oversimplifying a bit. The Brewers have been enabled to spend more money than ever, thanks to a great outpouring of fan support twinned with the renaissance of what had been one sclerotic mess of a baseball organization. "Still in all," as Bill Schroeder would say, there's a finite number of Miller Park tickets to be sold, and a finite number of southeastern Wisconsinites to outfit in Ryan Braun jerseys, and those finite numbers of each are smaller than those same numbers for the Yankees. They already sell lots of merchandise, especially ball-in-glove stuff HINT HINT, and passed 3 million in attendance. Moreover, the Yankees own their channel, the Brewers make less money from their broadcast rights fees than anyone else in the majors (so I'm told, at least; apparently Wendy Selig negotiated one long stinker of a deal with FSWisconsin or whatever it was called then). The Brewers have come a long way, but realistically, there's only so much they can spend, and so I can see where Invader is coming from in some respects. I think a lot of this Yankees stuff is overblown, though.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

As much as I hate the Yankees, I don't begrudge them for overspending for free agents. They have the money to spend and they owe it to the fans to do so. The players want the money, the fans want the players and the owners are willing to make it happen. Would it be better to have a cap that keeps salaries artificially low so that the owners can tack on an extra 0 to their net worth? I don't see how that benefits anyone.

 

Don't ask for a salary cap... you might end up with the NBA. No matter how much the gap grows between rich and poor, you don't want a system as arcane, outmoded and flat-out ridiculous as the one the NBA employs.

[bob_barron 0]

What a bunch of fucking bullshit. I hate the fucking Yankees. The Brewers now will only get a 2nd round draft pick as compensation for losing Sabathia, instead of a 1st rounder like they should get. Talk about insult to injury.

 

I hope the other owners mutiny over this horse shit. They've spent how much now on just three freaking players? $400 million or so? Just a bunch of crap. No one can justify this lunacy. No one. Unless you take the "The Yankees are great villains" angle. Yes, they are great villains...and I hate them. They are the Satan of the sports world.

 

They have the money, and are willing to spend it. It's absolutely justified. Good for them.

[geniusMoment 0]

I'm not advocating a salary cap where all the teams are equal, and it's hard to create long standing great teams, like the NFL. But, there has to be something in the middle, something where the others teams have a chance to sign or resign more the their great players. Whether it be limiting the amount of Type A free agents a team can sign even more, or a different variation on revenue sharing, or losing even more draft picks when you sign Type A free agents. Honestly, if you limit the type A free agents to two the only team it would probably hurt on a consistant basis is the Yankees. In fact it may be the only team it would ever hurt.

 

I like the system of losing your first round pick when you sign a Type A, I would advocate a system where once you no longer have a 1st or 2nd round pick to give then you just can't sign anymore Type A free agents.

[Psycho Penguin 0]

They haven't won a world series since, what, 2000? It's not like them spending all this money is going to win them games, guaranteed. How many times has Mark even made the playoffs?

[Guest Czecherbear]

Not gonna lie, I smiled a little bit when I heard the news, if only because of whoever posted "we could use him, Youkilis is only like a #6 hitter" in here.

[Cartman 0]

Fun Fact: Last season Youkilis had a highers SLG% than Teixeira. (0.569 to 0.552)

 

If they have comparable seasons in 2009 as they did in 2008, then Youkilis should look for the same kind of money right? uh oh!

 

 

 

[Brett Favre 0]

Fun Fact: Who gives a shit.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Fun Fact: Last season Youkilis had a highers SLG% than Teixeira. (0.569 to 0.552)

 

If they have comparable seasons in 2009 as they did in 2008, then Youkilis should look for the same kind of money right? uh oh!

Kevin Youkilis will be three years older than Teixeira when he reaches free agency, with exactly one year of comparable production to Teixeira's career average (or two, in your hypothetical scenario). Add in his old player skills and body type and I wouldn't even offer him a long-term deal, let alone anything approaching $20 million a year. There are a lot of other factors that come into player valuation than just slg%.

[Cartman 0]

Obviously...Wasn't being serious.

 

I'm happy with the dealings today although I would rather have Tex go somewhere besides the Yankees. I just don't think he's worth anything close to that kind of deal. He isn't in the class of Arod, Pujols, etc.

[Shooter in a Wedding Dress 0]

I'm just glad we have owners willing to spend and make the team better rather than do nothing and talk about how other teams are ruining baseball. Hopefully we don't hear any bitching from Sox/Mets fan's angry that we're just better at the game.

 

It's gonna be a fun 09!

[Cartman 0]

I'm just glad we have owners willing to spend and make the team better rather than do nothing and talk about how other teams are ruining baseball. Hopefully we don't hear any bitching from Sox/Mets fan's angry that we're just better at the game.

 

It's gonna be a fun 09!

Win a title this decade before bragging about being better at the game, thanks. Highest payroll in baseball the last 8 years and nothing to show for it.

[the max 0]

Better at what game? Not baseball, since the Yanks missed the playoffs last year and have marginally upgraded at positions while costing themselves four draft picks. Not championship winning, since the Yanks haven't won since 2000 and have spectacularly failed recently in the playoffs due to a lack of pitching depth.

 

But yeah, they're great at overpaying free agents.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I wonder how this will effect Ryan Howard's next arbitration figure.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Now, for the non-Yankee fans, here's why the team is still in trouble.

 

1. The Yankees really haven't gotten better. Abreu, Mussina, Giambi and Pettitte produced exactly the same win shares last season as Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett combined.

I never play win Win Shares so I apologize if I'm totally misunderstanding them. But isn't 3 players accounting for the same numbers as 4 a clear improvement? SOMEONE will fill that 4th spot and assuming he brings any win shares that's a gain, no? Doesn't it mean that Swisher, Nady, or whoever replaces Abreu is all gain? Besides what Nady brought in last season?

 

4. The Yankees surrendered three rounds of draft picks. Four years from now they've got a lost draft and a bunch of aging players. You think they'd learn by now.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong but the Yanks failed to sign their 1st and 2nd Rd draft picks last season. Doesn't that mean they're going to end up with a 1st and 2nd Rd pick in compensation despite all of this? Which probably strikes me as the true injustice of this system of the Brewers get a 2nd Rd pick and the Blue Jays get a 3rd while the Yankees still have a 1st.

 

Obviously that's 2 less players the Yankees added last year so in the end the system has the same number of picks and prospects. But the Yanks won't be out of the draft next season and will have the opportunity to add top prospects. As I understand it they're guaranteed the 29th pick for Gerrit Cole and the 76th from Scott Bittle. And with so few players offered arbitration this offseason the sandwich rounds should be shorter and help the placement of that Bittle pick as well as the Yankees' 4th Rd pick. No?

 

Unless I'm just completely off.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I never play win Win Shares so I apologize if I'm totally misunderstanding them. But isn't 3 players accounting for the same numbers as 4 a clear improvement? SOMEONE will fill that 4th spot and assuming he brings any win shares that's a gain, no? Doesn't it mean that Swisher, Nady, or whoever replaces Abreu is all gain? Besides what Nady brought in last season?

 

Of course you're right. I'm just looking at a value loss/added view. It just illustrates a point that although the Yankees added a bunch of expensive talent, they also lost a lot.

 

Again, correct me if I'm wrong but the Yanks failed to sign their 1st and 2nd Rd draft picks last season. Doesn't that mean they're going to end up with a 1st and 2nd Rd pick in compensation despite all of this? Which probably strikes me as the true injustice of this system of the Brewers get a 2nd Rd pick and the Blue Jays get a 3rd while the Yankees still have a 1st.

 

You're right, the Yankees have #'s 29 and 76. But then the Yankees got them by losing two early picks last year, so it works out even. There are six supplemental picks so far, and nine more Type A free agents are on the market. That could work out to 15 total, if they all choose different teams.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Czech pretty much said everything I was going to about the Brewers situation. They are basically maxed out as far as revenue streams right now. And yes, Wendy Selig-Prieb signed some horrible TV deal when she still owned the team that they're still locked into until 2011, I believe. It's the absolute worst TV deal in all of baseball. The Brewers drew over 3 million last year, and there's not much more room for growth.

 

Anyway, the thing that sucks with the Yankees is that even if one or two of these big signings doesn't work out (like if CC would get injured or something), it won't phase them at all. They'll just go out and sign someone else and write off the wasted money. That's partly why I'm glad the Brewers didn't end up signing Sabathia...if he had suddenly declined or gotten injured, it would have crippled them. The Yankees don't have to deal with that scenario at all.

 

I don't think a salary cap would be any kind of solution in baseball...MLB is not the NFL. Maybe they could further increase revenue sharing, implement an international draft (long overdue), or do the "franchise tag" thing with players like the NFL does. But yes, more than anything, the Yankees should suffer bigger draft penalties for being able to make all these huge moves.

[bob_barron 0]

I don't like the idea of revenue sharing, unless the owners are required to spend it on improving their team.

 

The franchise tag is unfair to players

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, the fact is there already is revenue sharing, and as you pointed out, some teams just pocket a lot of that money instead of reinvesting. I think you can really only point to a small handful of teams (Marlins, Pirates, etc) that are guilty of that.

 

To be honest, I haven't invested the details of how the NFL does the franchise tag system...I do know it's supposed to guarantee guys that they get a fair market value though. But basically they are paid out of a mass "pot", instead of just their team having to spring for the whole salary

[bob_barron 0]

The player's salary is the average of the top 5 in that position.

[jimmy no nose 0]

I guess this is maybe semi-related to the discussion. One thing I would like to see changed that I think could do a good bit of good is to make some major changes to the way international players are handled. I'm really not a big fan of them just being free agents as I believe that takes a bit of the sting out of losing out on draft picks based on signing big name free agents. Obviously the teams would like to have the draft picks to grab some of the top American players as well, but they probably don't miss it quite as much when they just signed a 16 year old kid from the Dominican who projects as a first rounder anyway. Of course teams like the Indians and Rays have done as well at building through international signings as anyone else, though.

[Bored 0]

I have nothing to add but...BASEBALL IS DEAD! WHY CAN'T IT BE MORE COMPETITIVE LIKE THE NBA! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

I thought baseball was dead when the Yankees signed Jason Giambi after the 2001 season and that no one would ever be able to compete with them. Things worked out okay.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Taking draft picks away from the Yankees is hardly a penalty. They'll just redistribute the money to go way over slot and sign first round talent in later rounds that fell over signability concerns. The MLB draft is a bigger farce than the free agent system. It's all about money, not number of picks or placement of picks.

[bob_barron 0]

They shouldn't take away draft picks to begin with. That's stupid.