Fla. Doctor Investigated in Badly Botched Abortion

[milliondollarchamp 0]

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

 

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

 

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

 

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=6813187

 

every single person involved with this needs to be charged, from the mother to the doc to the medical personnel in attendance when this happened.

 

Once the birth happened I dont see how they cant be charged with murder.

[2GOLD 0]

Yeah, I'm not sure it's an abortion anymore when the baby is fucking ALIVE. I am fine with abortion and I'm not exactly seeing how anyone on the abortion side of the fence and can not call this murder.

 

The baby came out alive. Not calling 911 where it is given to the mother and giving her other options such as adoption or foster care or whatever just is disgusting. You don't throw it in the fucking GARBAGE if it's alive. You aren't a rich teenager at your prom!

 

The lady who threw it in the bag, definitely murder charges. The mother? I don't know, if she was heavily medicated and they didn't listen to her then she might have been helpless to stop them. If she went to the police immediately after then it's basically reporting the crime and she shouldn't be guilty of anything. If she wasn't heavily medicated and she was totally cool with the baby hitting the garbage, maybe one of the lesser murder counts. But I'm not much for charging her until I get more information on the physical state she was in.

[stormy 0]

Thats a tough one to call...I mean 23wks abortion..Comeon are you telling me she didn't know her body well enough to know something was wrong.When the baby came out alive and she put it in the trash yes definatly murder. She could have taken the baby to any fire station or hospital and left the baby and not even give her name..called the Safe haven law....

 

Now if she did even have an abortion and they missed it she should have definatly gone to the Dr or back to the clinic and had an ultra sound done to see what was up...She could try to bring a law suit for mal practice but even that don't even see where she would have a case. I mean she should have known something was wrong when she would have gained weight as the pregnancy progressed.... I am with 2GOLD on this one I would think she needs a mental evaluation....

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Just disgusting. They should put everyone involved in this in a big plastic bag, seal it, and throw them in a dumpster. Should be fine with them.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

i'm all for abortion and hate kids, but this is clearly murder.

[snuffbox 0]

I know, right? How did that would-be mother not get right up and tackle the would-be nurse/whatever and save that baby? There is no way that girl could have been in any kind of compromised state that might have prevented her from suplexing the other lady and saving her baby. Sick fucking bitch should die!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

get ahold of yourself.

[stormy 0]

Okay I am medical professional.....Not a Dr but even I know if she was charged 1,200.00 for an abortion she went to the wrong place. For that price she could have gone to an OB Gyn specialist ...Yet they claim that person didn't even have a medical license...The whole thing is kind of weird....

[Guest Smues]

i'm all for abortion and hate kids, but this is clearly murder.

Exactly how I feel. What a fucked up story.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Yeah, I'm pro-choice, but this just makes my skin crawl. And this gives an awful lot of ammunition to the pro-life crowd who are going to shout things like "See, this is what abortion really is!!!!~"

[snuffbox 0]

A lot of ammunition if your 'gun' is a retarded person.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Pics?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, it does bring into question the ethics of terminating a viable human life.

[At Home 0]

I'd need more information before I made any kind of judgement. The article doesn't say whether or not they could tell it was alive or what judgements were made when they tossed the little bambino out. Remember that murder necessitates a motive. The mother was in the 2nd trimester, there's probably no way this fetus could have survived if it was given birth to anyways.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I'd need more information before I made any kind of judgement. The article doesn't say whether or not they could tell it was alive or what judgements were made when they tossed the little bambino out. Remember that murder necessitates a motive. The mother was in the 2nd trimester, there's probably no way this fetus could have survived if it was given birth to anyways.

A baby born at 23 weeks would have a decent chance at survival, they've saved ones at 21 weeks before. Babies are born alive in the second semester all the time.

 

An examanination of the remains said it was breathing after it was born, which means it was probably crying. I don't think they could reasonably claim not to know it was alive. The whole situation is crazy.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

wrong, murder doesn't require motive. murder, by definition, involves intent. she clearly intended the born child to die. therefore, it's murder.

 

by the way, when i said i'm in favor of abortion and hate kids, i didn't mean i'm pro-choice. i meant i hate kids and i think most people aren't capable enough of being good parents -- so optimally, our abortion rates (or as a substitution, massive availability of birth control) should go up. and i still think this is murder.

[At Home 0]

Intent, that's what I meant to say. Thanks. Anyways, I don't think it's clear enough to say that right now, and you'd certainly have to define what a person is at that point. It was meant as an abortion in the first place. I don't know how abortions work exactly, so I'd need to get that information before I could say anything.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Intent, that's what I meant to say. Thanks. Anyways, I don't think it's clear enough to say that right now, and you'd certainly have to define what a person is at that point. It was meant as an abortion in the first place. I don't know how abortions work exactly, so I'd need to get that information before I could say anything.

 

 

I think the law in most places is pretty clear that after it's breathing, it's a person. As soon as they saw it was born alive, they should have given it medical treatment. That's what most doctors are told to do in the rare event a child survives an abortion.

[Precious Roy 0]

So let me get this straight, people identifying themselves as pro-choice are up in arms about this and calling it murder, but if the abortion had gone off without a hitch it would be an acceptable medical procedure condoned by these very same people?

[At Home 0]

So let me get this straight, people identifying themselves as pro-choice are up in arms about this and calling it murder, but if the abortion had gone off without a hitch it would be an acceptable medical procedure condoned by these very same people?

 

Indeed

[Atticus Chaos 0]

So let me get this straight, people identifying themselves as pro-choice are up in arms about this and calling it murder, but if the abortion had gone off without a hitch it would be an acceptable medical procedure condoned by these very same people?

 

 

A lot of people really buy into the 'life begins at first breath' idea.

 

I personally think abortion is a lot easier to justify in the first trimester and early on in the second. By the time you get to twenty weeks, I have problems with it. The woman made a mistake in deciding to even have one at 23 weeks.

[2GOLD 0]

 

Now that I think about it, 23 weeks is really fucking late. I missed it entirely because of the whole, you know, throwing the live baby in the garbage part. I don't know what the law is but something tells me that number might be cross it. If it is then yeah, she committed an illegal act and makes her guilty as well.

 

I'm never really in favor of it past the halfway mark unless the life of the mother is on the line. Course I'm also fine with the mother making the decision to save the life of the child over her own if that is what she decides so yeah.

[stormy 0]

I wonder if the woman even had an ultra sound done....Maybe thats why she went to unlicensed place. Medical personnel would have definatly cautioned her that she is over half way into her pregnancy...Atleast here in Texas a counselor would have advised her to go ahead and have the baby and if she didn't want the child given her information to the Edna Gladney or one of the adoption centers...I don't know sounds she went to what some of the medical profession refers to as a butcher. They will do anything for the money of it.... Is clearly a sad case . Unless they can prove her mental defective she likely could go to jail over it....There are so many unanswered questions here...and really makes me ill just to think about it

[The Metal Maniac 0]

So let me get this straight, people identifying themselves as pro-choice are up in arms about this and calling it murder, but if the abortion had gone off without a hitch it would be an acceptable medical procedure condoned by these very same people?

 

 

A lot of people really buy into the 'life begins at first breath' idea.

 

If the "doctor" had instantly slapped their hand over the child's mouth and pinched their nose, preventing them from ever taking a single breath, and waited until the child suffocated, would the child have never been alive then? Would that have been an acceptable form of abortion?

 

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a total dick and I don't really want to get into a big huge debate over this, but I do have trouble seeing things from the pro-choice side, so maybe someone can help me out here? I mean, the way I see it is, the woman wanted her baby dead, the baby is dead. Does the "doctor" being late make that much of a difference, in your eyes? Why?

 

Again, not trying to be a total dick, just trying to understand some viewpoints.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Um, because not everyone believes a fetus is a person. And we don't want to force women to give birth.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

That actually sorta makes sense. I don't tend to think of a person and a fetus as two different things, so it sorta slipped my mind that others do.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Um, because not everyone believes a fetus is a person. And we don't want to force women to give birth.

 

How is it a fetus one moment and a person the next? Does cutting the umbilical cord magically transform it?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

yeah. why do you ask?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Because your inevitable answer was illogical and stupid?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

wow, internet forumer'd. brb, slitting wrists because i got pwnt. gtfo.

 

the problem with your delicious indigence is that there is no possible way to conclusively prove anything. just like my opinion -- whether it's stupid or not -- isn't provable, neither is yours. it all comes down to a matter of opinion and faith, and you can't conclusively prove either of those things. get over it.