More Gay Marriage?

[HarleyQuinn 0]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/a...lls_gain_in_ne/

 

In a special session, the Vermont Senate yesterday voted to legalize same-sex marriage. Later this week, a similar bill is scheduled for a vote in the New Hampshire House of Representatives. Next month a legislative panel in Maine will hold a hearing on a bill to allow gay couples to marry, just as lawmakers did last month in Rhode Island.

 

Last year, Connecticut joined Massachusetts to become the second state in the country to allow same-sex marriage.

 

As a Massachusetts resident (and resident of New Hampshire as a student for the past 4 years), I hope this gets pushed through. It seems that advocates have a goal of 2012 in terms of gay marriage in New England.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

Glad to see it happen in New England.

 

Still up in the air in California, however.

[NoCalMike 0]

Good News. And in California most observers really thought it was going to pass this last election if not for the huge funding during the home stretch from the mormon church of all people which some insiders think is Mitt Romney's way of staying relevent for the 2012 election.

 

Polls right now show it passing, along with legalizing marijuana

[Atticus Chaos 0]

They can blame Mormons all they want, but from what I've read, it passed because No on 8 ran an appalling campaign. They had a huge leap in the polls initially, and then once the ads about gay marriage being taught in schools to young children started lost a lot of support, partly because they never dealt with that question fully, and I believe there was a letter of support from Obama that was never used either.

[Smues 0]

One theory I've heard about why the California thing passed was because of all the black voters that turned out to vote for Obama. Supposedly most of them are anti-gay marriage so getting them to the polls helped Obama and hurt the gay marriage thing. I have no clue if there is any truth to that though.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

That's spot on. It's ironic if you really think about it.

 

Black people are socially conservative for some reason. My aunt voted Yes on 8, as well as friends.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

One theory I've heard about why the California thing passed was because of all the black voters that turned out to vote for Obama. Supposedly most of them are anti-gay marriage so getting them to the polls helped Obama and hurt the gay marriage thing. I have no clue if there is any truth to that though.

 

The black's and also, super-religious Mexicans.

[At Home 0]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html

 

It was old people.

[Lei Tong 0]

It's bad enough Prop. 8 passed, but now its advocates are pushing for the 18,000 or so gay marriages performed in the state to be invalidated. Two former coworkers who married are currently pretty freaked out and rightfully upset that their marriage would be considered invalid, and it really pisses me off to think think that a majority of Californians would consider their marriage as some sort of detriment to anyone else's. I think gay marriage will eventually gain wider acceptance, though that hardly makes the current situation anymore palatable.

[SamoaRowe 0]

As a New Hampshire citizen, I'm thrilled to hear about this. About time.

[At Home 0]

It's bad enough Prop. 8 passed, but now its advocates are pushing for the 18,000 or so gay marriages performed in the state to be invalidated. Two former coworkers who married are currently pretty freaked out and rightfully upset that their marriage would be considered invalid, and it really pisses me off to think think that a majority of Californians would consider their marriage as some sort of detriment to anyone else's. I think gay marriage will eventually gain wider acceptance, though it makes that hardly makes the current situation anymore palatable.

 

Yeah, it's a whole bunch of stupid bullshit. There's a chance, however, it'll be rendered unconstitutional in court like it was a few times. That's just what I've heard, but it seems like that wouldn't work considering that it's a constitutional amendment itself. It's complicated, but I don't think the existing marriages will be invalidated.

[Lei Tong 0]

One theory I've heard about why the California thing passed was because of all the black voters that turned out to vote for Obama. Supposedly most of them are anti-gay marriage so getting them to the polls helped Obama and hurt the gay marriage thing. I have no clue if there is any truth to that though.

 

The black's and also, super-religious Mexicans.

 

Coincidentally, many of the particularly religious Latinos I know who voted yes on 8 were Mormon.

[snuffbox 0]

Wont anybody even consider the precious feelings of those that wrote the Old Testament (plagiarized from others before them actually) way back in the day?

[SamoaRowe 0]

Couldn't care less what the religious folks think. It seems to me that there's a growing unrest with religion in the popular culture (or maybe I'm just noticing it now, whatever) and I'd say a big part of it is due to anti-gay sentiments (among other things, of course).

[snuffbox 0]

People who don't believe that girls have cooties are also harboring distaste for organized religion.

[Boon 0]

Still more proof that New England > California. Pretty surprised at NH- growing up there, it was a pretty socially conservative state. Nicely done, team.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

It's bad enough Prop. 8 passed, but now its advocates are pushing for the 18,000 or so gay marriages performed in the state to be invalidated. Two former coworkers who married are currently pretty freaked out and rightfully upset that their marriage would be considered invalid, and it really pisses me off to think think that a majority of Californians would consider their marriage as some sort of detriment to anyone else's. I think gay marriage will eventually gain wider acceptance, though that hardly makes the current situation anymore palatable.

 

Stuff like this amazes me because it's obvious they can't put themselves into our (LGBT) shoes. Imagine the utter outrage if people said to a straight person that their marriage should be invalidated just because strangers they've never met didn't agree that they should be married.

 

The funny thing is, the world hasn't imploded with Mass (and now Connecticut) having gay marriage. Anybody have statistical evidence that gays "prey" on children in these two states now? Sadly, that argument is still being used as a reason by certain nut organizations to avoid gay marriage.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Wont anybody even consider the precious feelings of those that wrote the Old Testament (plagiarized from others before them actually) way back in the day?

 

You seem to drag out some variation of that tired line in every thread on this forum.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

It's easy enough to blame it on religious people,and I'm not cutting them any slack at all, but they wouldn't have been enough to swing it. Something like 30% of democrats voted for it. It appealled to moderates.

 

I think it passed mainly for two reasons 1. Obama making it very clear he didn't agree with gay marriage, while quietly opposing prop 8 for technical reasons. Biden too. Regardless of how either man feels personally, they choose political convenience over marriage rights for all. 2. It possibly getting taught in schools. If Yes on 8 hadn't went that route it probably wouldn't have passed. I've actually read stuff by people that said they never would have thought they would vote Yes, but did so for that reason. While they heavily exaggerated that aspect of it, people believed it, and I think that was why it won.

 

 

I also think the constant comparisions to the 60s civil rights movement probably didn't help with Black and Latino voters, even though they weren't as strongly against it as initially reported. I'm sure focus groups have found people get more offended by that than anything else and don't think gay discrimination is the same as racial discrimition.

[snuffbox 0]

Wont anybody even consider the precious feelings of those that wrote the Old Testament (plagiarized from others before them actually) way back in the day?

 

You seem to drag out some variation of that tired line in every thread on this forum.

 

Then you, and the rest of your fellow cult-followers and leaders, need to stop dictating other individuals lives based on millennia-old (and lifted from previous fiction at that!) stories that have long been used to direct hatred at women, homosexuals, etc. I used to go to church too, but my associations therein should not, ever, give me any motivation to stand myself up via oppression on another human being. I am not arguing that every member of every church is a hate-driven bigot (just as not every athelete is a steroid addict, not every rapper is affiliated with a gang, not every Wal Mart associate enjoys the goings on inside foreign sweatshops,etc) but that is not the point. The point is that it is organized religion that most exacerbates the problems of oppression over human beings. The Bible was a long-grasped crutch beneath the armpit of slavery, an irrational comdemnation of women persists to this day, and it is the Christian church, far moreso than any other entity, that fuels the hatred that we have seen cast towards homosexuals.

 

If you would like to argue in Christianity's role in violent/oppressive homophobia or its borrowing of previously written Babylonian material for its major storybook, I might read it.

[snuffbox 0]

Where do you think all of that Yes rhetoric was originating, Atticus Chaos?

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Where do you think all of that Yes rhetoric was originating, Atticus Chaos?

 

 

It started from religious folks obviously. Because they are the ones that tend to be against gay marriage . And while I disagree, at least they're upfront about it. But not everyone who voted Yes was extremely religious. So, don't moderates deserve some of the blame for listening to it? And don't guys like Obama and Biden deserve blame for legitimising that sort of talk? It's one thing for Rick Warren to say marriage is between a man and woman, it's another thing for Obama to come out with it

[snuffbox 0]

Being upfront about being dead wrong doesn't make you less dead wrong, or respectable.

 

And I've already argued that Obama is guilty too. It doesn't matter if I voted for him, if I support him, or if I like a fair number of his ideas: He's wrong about gay marriage.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Being upfront about being dead wrong doesn't make you less dead wrong, or respectable.

 

I think it's better to be honest, rather than claiming how supportive you are of the gay community whilst resorting to conservative rhetoric to win over votes (Obama), or telling your gay friends how supportive you are of their rights, and then getting in the booth and voting against them. And looking at how many people voted for it, I'm willing to bet a lot of people did that.

[At Home 0]

Being upfront about being dead wrong doesn't make you less dead wrong, or respectable.

 

And I've already argued that Obama is guilty too. It doesn't matter if I voted for him, if I support him, or if I like a fair number of his ideas: He's wrong about gay marriage.

 

I sincerely hope that you actually didn't call someone's opinion "dead wrong."

[snuffbox 0]

I agree, and they (Obama included) are pathetic for doing so. But they pandering to the religious when they do shit like that. It is organized religion at the absolute center of this problem. And, remember, that organized religion is far from innocent of hypocrisy.

[snuffbox 0]

Being upfront about being dead wrong doesn't make you less dead wrong, or respectable.

 

And I've already argued that Obama is guilty too. It doesn't matter if I voted for him, if I support him, or if I like a fair number of his ideas: He's wrong about gay marriage.

 

I sincerely hope that you actually didn't call someone's opinion "dead wrong."

 

I did. It is.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Being upfront about being dead wrong doesn't make you less dead wrong, or respectable.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I agree, and they (Obama included) are pathetic for doing so. But they pandering to the religious when they do shit like that. It is organized religion at the absolute center of this problem. And, remember, that organized religion is far from innocent of hypocrisy.

 

 

I love how people can make a big deal about religious freedom, but then get pissy when people actually apply those religious beliefs to their every day life. What are people supposed to do with their religious beliefs anyway?

 

Look, I think it was wrong of Yes on 8 to exaggerate or even lie about certain things, but they had every right to run a campaign for prop 8. Just like No on 8 had every right to run their own campaign against it. Do I agree with prop 8 voters voting for it for religious reasons? Not really. But you can't do anything about it.

[snuffbox 0]

They're allowed to read their book. They're not allowed to dictate others' lives based on what's inside of that book.