King Kamala

It's time for the return of TSM's General Wrestling Folder's favorite semi-regular feature, Let's Talk About... Today, we'll be talking about the first of Vince Russo's short stints at the helm of WCW's writing staff. The stint lasted from (and correct me if I'm wrong) the October 11th, 1999 edition of Monday Nitro to shortly before the Souled Out '00 PPV in January. Now this run tends to get overshadowed by the craziness of Russo's second stint running the show in WCW but this first stint has its own fair share of Russorific crap. Honestly at the very beginning, I kind of liked what Russo was doing. It may not have been good wrestling but it was semi-interesting television and it was a hell of a lot better than the stuff WCW was doing from May to September of '99. There was some decent stuff from that era. For the first time in his entire run in WCW, Bret Hart got a consistant push and was backing that up with some of the best matches he had in WCW. Russo also pushed La Parka and Chavo Guerrero Jr's Amway Salesman gimmick is one of my favorite guilty pleasures in wrestling (and probably 10X more entertaining than anything he's done in the past four years or so). Halloween Havoc '99 and Mayhem '99 while not really great wrestling shows are interesting trainwrecks. While he wasn't totally exposed as a hack during that run (that would come in his second run), there sure was a lot of crap. For one, he completely destroyed the Cruiserweight division and it never really recovered.His utter contempt for the division really showed. with everything from Oklahoma and Madusa swapping the title to the luchadors fighting over a pinata to randomly jobbing out the visiting Jushin Thunder Liger. Just terrible. And then there was the vague, uninteresting Corporation knockoff, Powers That Be faction that went on to be replaced by the even lamer nWo revival. As I've pointed out before on this board,Russo seemed to have a thing for lame half-baked stables, especially in his WCW run. It seemed like Russo became incredibly desparate after it became clear that there was no quick fix for WCW's woes and was willing to do anything to fix them. Did we really need to see nWo 2000 only about six months or so after the tired as hell nWo was finally put to pasture? If I could describe Russo's run in WCW in one word it would be desperation. He was absolutely desparate to prove that he was behind the vast majority of WWF's late 90s success. Problem was WCW was not WWF. Russo's Crash TV style, while mildly intriguing at first, grew more tired and tired every week. By the time, he was canned and replaced by the even worse short lived Kevin Sullivan regime, you would think WCW would have learned their lesson... What are you thoughts on the first months following Vince Russo's jump from WWF to WCW? Apologists and haters alike, let's talk about WCW from October '99 to January '00.

"Can't Touch This" was a much bigger hit but I've always liked this one more for some reason. Must be all the cameos by early 90s sport superstars at the end. Wait...is that Jerry Glanville at the end!? And I could never understand whether Hammer was trying to start a feud with Michael Jackson or buddy up to him... Can you get more 90s than this one?

God Bless America. God Bless Luther Campbell

I think poor Skee Lo came out about five years too late. He would have been a perfect fit in the late 80s/early 90s goofy pop rap scene with Tone Loc, Young MC, Fresh Prince and DJ Jazzy Jeff, Kid 'N' Play, etc.

We all know who the king of 90s hip hop was... And this thread is quickly turning into Right Said Thread/I'm Board A Ba Da A Ba Di 1.5

Guys, stop feeding the troll. Anyways, here are my Top 5 Favorite Latter Day WCW Saturday Night Wrestlers 5. Mark Jindrak (the angry basketball player gimmick days) 4. Kid Romeo 3. Shark Boy 2. "Hard Work" Bobby Walker 1. Barry Darsow Honorable mentions: Barry Horowitz, Emory Hale, and Elix Skipper

Man was The Adventures of Pete and Pete the ultimate 90s show or what? I rented the first season on Netflix about a year back and surprisingly, it still holds up reasonably well. Anyway, here are my contributions to this thread

Welcome to another edition of the The Smart Mark round table. Before we get started, let me introduce our panel... 909: Current head of the WWE folder Hunter's Torn Quad: Esteemed former head of the WWE folder. MilleniumMan831: Resident WWE 24/7 Online expert oldskool: The newest member of the panel. Graciously stepped in at the last minute. King Kamala Classic: Some guy WWE Women's Title Match: Beth Phoenix © Vs Melina Vs Mickie James Hunter's Torn Quad: It'll be short, not too bad, and I think Mickie pins Melina to prolong the feud with Phoenix. Next millenniumman831: Should be decent, never been a fan of diva matches but these are among the best WWE has at this point. I'm thinking Phoenix regains and may start a feud w/ Michelle McCool soon 909: ok, um, i am also not the biggest fan of Diva matches. Should be about six minutes, Mickie pins Melina. Oldskool: I don't mind diva matches when they aren't insultingly bad, and this one should probably be one of the best this year. Beth pins Melina in about 8 minutes, intertwining Phoenix/Mickie with Phoenix/Melina. King Kamala Classic: Uh I hate to join the +1 crowd but yeah also not a huge fan of divas matches but this one won't be bad. It'll be like most WWE Women's titles matches. Not really given enough time to be particularly good or bad. It'll probably go around six or seven minutes with Beth retaining. John Cena Vs John Bradshaw Layfield Hunter's Torn Quad: Cena wins a very heated match. It'll be decent, but not much more than that unless they got to use shortcuts. Cena by FU in thirteen minutes millenniumman831: Don't have too much to add to this. Seems like a dead-end feud. I guess JBL may cheap out a victory to set up something for One Night Stand. While it should be a fun, violent match, the outcome of it doesn't intrigue me at all. 909: I'm very interested in this one. I'd like this to continue until ONS, but I can't possibly see JBL picking up the victory. I'll say, uh, Cena winning via rollup after fifteen minutes.JBL attacks in the post-match. Oldskool I didn't care when this match was the Smackdown main event for the WWE title at WM 21, so I certainly don't care now. JBL's owed wins over Cena after jobbing then as well as tapping at Backlash, so I think JBL takes it in about 12 minutes, and keeps laying the boots to him after the bell just to prove his point. King Kamala Classic I don't think it'll reach the heights of their I Quit match three years ago at this event but it'll be a fun ***ish brawl. Probably go around 12 minutes with Cena going over. I don't see this feud going on much longer. It just screams placeholder feud until Cena gets to do something better. 909: about the feud being dead-end, it is dead-end in the sense that, well, you know that Cena's going to win the thing and what he's going to do after King Kamala ClassicI think JBL since his return is a lot like DiBiase was back in the late 80s. He's a credible semi-main eventer that seems to get a run with almost every main-eventer but doesn't really get to go over any of them. Of course, JBL is no DiBiase but he's grown on me. Cena goes on to another main-event feud while JBL mixes it up with a mid-carder 909: I'm curious to see what JBL does afterward. Hunter's Torn Quad Cena isn't losing three PPV's in a row Oldskool: I see JBL going on to HHH, and Cena/Orton renewing their "You kicked my daddy's head" feud, just because I can't think of any other main-eventers on Raw. If that's going to happen JBL needs to go over, especially if HHH retains. King Kamala Classic: what the fuck happened to the draft? Wasn't it supposed to happen after Backlash? Oldskool: No other brand has anybody worth bringing to Raw, so they've put the draft off. WWE Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels Hunter's Torn Quad It'll be very good, maybe MOTN. It'll be built around Shawn's knee. I expect Shawn to win, because he's facing Jericho, but I would like to see Jericho win when Shawn passes out in a leg based submission hold. Either way, fifteen minutes and **** millenniumman831 : This is FAR and AWAY, the most interesting match/storyline of the night. This could go several different ways. I don't anticipate Deacon Batista to get directly involved but I'm sure he'll staredown Shawn backstage or maybe after the match. The only shot Y2J has here is if they have Batista be enough of a distraction from ringside that Jericho gets a rollup victory but I expect HBK to take it w/ Sweet Chin Music 909: Ok, this is definitely the most interesting part of the show. Should go about twenty minutes. I really expect Batista to interfere, powerbomb Michaels, allowing Jericho to pick up the win in a **** match.Minor nitpick, I don't like how the Intercontinental Title isn't defended on PPV. I'm pretty sure Jericho's going to get phased out of the storyline so he and Jeff Hardy can feud. I'd like those two to get off RAW, but it wouldn't make sense, unless Matt Hardy swapped over to Smackdown. Can't have two midcard belts on one show. Oldskool: I really don't know what they were doing with the rapid-fire turns here.Jericho turns heel by egging on the Dave/HBK match in the first place, and doubting Michaels' injury, only to turn back face by apologizing and admitting HBK really was hurt. Only to have HBK attempt a heel turn of his own by saying he wasn't really injured at all. I think it goes 20 minutes, ****, no decision when Michaels hurts his knee and Jericho continues to attack it, thinking he's faking it. Sets up Dave/Jericho because Batista can't get his revenge on HBK if he's out injured. King Kamala Classic: quick question, this isn't for the IC title, right? Oldskool: It's not mentioned anywhere, so I don't think the title's on the line. King Kamala Classic The only reason I see Jericho winning would be if it were an IC title match because what the hell would HBK do with the IC title at this stage in his career? Hunter's Torn Quad: Belt buckle? Oldskool: lose his smile and hand it to Shane Douglas? or the modern-day Shane Douglas, Matt Striker? King Kamala Classic: But since it's not, I think HBK wins cleanly with The Sweet Chin Music. Batista attacks him after the match. Like everybody's said, this is definitely the most intriguing match of the night. It looks like it'll be the match of the night. It'll probably go around 15 minutes. But yeah I don't see Jericho winning it. Hunter's Torn Quad: But he almost has to if they want to give HHH someone to squash before getting back into a program with Cena. Maybe HHH vs. Jericho at the Night of Champions PPV, in a title vs. title match? 909: I really wouldn't mind Jericho getting squashed by HHH this time around. I'm in the minority, probably. millenniumman831: It sure wouldn't frustrate me as much as it did 5 years ago King Kamala Classic: I don't think I'd be terribly upset to be honest. Oldskool: don't see Jericho beating HHH, but I also don't see what good the IC belt does on HHH. Remember the last time he won it in a title v title match? 909 I don't see what's wrong with it this time. Not like everyone is clamoring for a Jericho World Title reign. They could have a tournament! King Kamala Classic yes! lord knows we could use a tournament Oldskool: Regal, your King, your General Manager, your Intercontinental champion? Hunter's Torn Quad Jeff Hardy millenniumman831 ): *casual fan* Jeff isn't IC Champ? Oldskool He's one strike away from being fired, can you really put the IC title on him so soon after returning? King Kamala Classic that's exactly what I was thinking 909: Sure. It's just the Intercontinental Belt. King Kamala Classic: I don't know. Call me crazy but I think the IC title is more important than people give it credit for. And I don't think Jeff Hardy should get one right away after getting off a 60 day (or however long it was) suspension. Hunter's Torn Quad: The IC title started losing value in the Russo era, and very little has been since to raise it. It doesn't really matter who holds it Oldskool: Bah, got cut off. The only reason Jericho has it is because Hardy was suspended, and IIRC the only reason Hardy won it was because Umaga was suspended. Before that we had the Santino Marella incident. King Kamala Classic: I mean when their drug policy is under the most scrutiny they give a title to a guy who's been into rehab multiple times. But it is WWE. WWE Tag Team titles match: The Miz and John Morrison © Vs ECW World Champion Kane and CM Punk Hunter's Torn Quad: It'll be fine stuff. Punk will sell for his team, Kane will run wild on the comeback, and to further the ridiculous booking of Punk since he won MitB, he'll lose clean to Miz again. Ten minutes and *** millenniumman831: guessing it'll be a solid match. I'm thinking Punk/Kane wins the tag titles. This will set up AAE pitting champs against each other at ONS . ..ECW Title vs MITB 909: Ok, I think Punk and Kane will win the tag titles here, in a not-so-great ten minute match. Um, they'll lose the titles back to Miz and Morrison at ONS. Then face each other at Night of Champions. But, I wouldn't be surprised to see Punk lose again. And next week. Maybe the week after too.When they lose the belts back, it'll be because one champion accidentally hits the other. Oldskool: They're booking the ECW champion in a tag title match, while Deuce/Domino and Yang/Moore aren't on the show. There's no reason for this other than moving the titles off Miz/Morrison. Kane's notorious for winning tag titles in Odd Couple pairings; X-Pac, Rob Van Dam, and The Hurricane come to mind. Plus, it gives them the pairing of "champion and #1 contender having to co-exist", which is the sort of thing they love to do. They could tie in Chavo trying to screw Kane to get himself another title shot, but I doubt it. Kane/Punk win in about 25 minutes. King Kamala Classic I don't agree with CM Punk's post MITB booking but at the same time, I think it's kind of ridiculous to think he and Kane WON'T win this one. Especially since as oldskool says WWE loves odd couple pairings. CM Punk and Kane win in about ten minutes in a fun but kind of forgettable match only to lose them at ONS to set up a ECW title Vs MITB match at Night of Champions. World Heavyweight title match: Edge Vs The Undertaker Hunter's Torn Quad: Snooze. Enough, already. It's just not that interesting a program for three straight PPV's. It's the same tired UT crap with all the voodoo bullshit. No mas. I don't care who wins or loses, just end it already. Edge wins by nefarious means in a 15 minute ***1/2 match millenniumman831: Just a terrible turn to a decent angle. I'm thinking they'll be a controversial finish in which Teddy Long sets some multi-match hijinx at ONS or Night of Champions to crown a new champion. 909: This is the worst main event angle I can remember in quite a while. Worst meaning most boring. I really don't give a fuck. I know that Taker is going to win the feud. I don't care how, I just want it done two months ago.): Taker wins a ***1/4 match after about 17 minutes. End this shit for the love of God. Oldskool: The nice thing about having PPVs every other week is you can have bullshit finishes in title matches. ONS is two weeks after Judgment Day.Edge wins the match via DQ after Taker applies That Deadly Submission Hold. But since titles can't change hands via disqualification (and with Vicki out, as mentioned previously) there's no one to hand him the belt or re-start the match, so the title's held up until ONS. At which point it's revealed that ONS is all extreme rules, making it impossible to DQ Taker for the choke. King Kamala Classic: I like to think I'm generally optimistic regarding the product but for the love of god, END THIS NOW! With each twist and turn, this feud has gotten progressively less interesting and just more convoluted. This shit sucks. The match itself will be pretty good. The optimist in me thinks The Undertaker will clean and blow off the feud, the pessimist in me think there will be a screwy finish and they'll have the blowoff at ONS or Night of Champions. I'll say Undertaker wins cleanly but who does he go on to face next? 909: Chavo. millenniumman831:Big Show Old Skool: Chavo & Edge, handicap for the title to tease La Familia tension. King Kamala Classic as long as it isn't Khali... 909: I think Big Show is the guy.I sure would like to see what Edge does next. There's not a whole lot. ConnMan520 (9:02:17 PM): do you think Big Show would do his 718th turn and be a heel? Or be face Vs face. millenniumman831 :Tweener vs face "Do what I have to do" Big Show Oldskool: tweener vs tweener, Taker doesn't do anything to be a face besides wrestling heels. It's just a match, there won't be any alignments if that's the direction they take it. King Kamala Classic even though their past matches have all kind of sucked, I'd be intrigued to see The Big Show-Taker and I can't explain why Oldskool: The first time since his comeback Big Show faces somebody that can actually work. millenniumman831: Cause Show is being built like Godzilla 909: I just want to see that because it's sorta fresh. Fresh is good at this point in time, because things are so stagnant Hunter's Torn Quad: Anything would be better than yet another match with Edge King Kamala Classic I think that's something we all can agree on Steel Cage match for the WWE title: Triple H © Vs Randy Orton Hunter's Torn Quad: Would have been more interesting had they done some kind of angle on Raw, other than HHH standing tall over, literally, Orton. I know it would have been two weeks in a row with a similar angle, but they really should have had Orton bloody HHH up to end Raw. Something to make people better get into the idea of wanting to see HHH beat the shit out of Orton in the cage And they've done a terrible job of making it seem like this had to be a cage match. The stip seems thrown out there for no reason other than they just wanted to make a cage match. Regal turns out the lights, so it's a cage match now? It'll be the usual good match they have. Twenty minutes of a **** old-school bloodbath with lots of cage shots and the like. Hunter wins, of course. millenniumman831 Much agreement there. Plus, Orton just went under the side of the cage and hit the floor. Is that supposed to = victory for Orton? Is that the only chance we are to believe he can win? I'm sure the match will be a good ol bloodbath like HTQ said but yeah, Orton has no chance, a zero out of 10 chance. 909: I like that it's a cage match, but really, it doesn't make much sense. HHH definitely wins the match after, let's say, 25 minutes. After all, there aren't many matches on this PPV. I see no reason this couldn't be as good as Last Man Standing, which I rated ****1/2. I can't wait for HHH/Regal. Oldskool: Regal hasn't been involved in the PPV yet, at least by our accounts.He got back at Kennedy with the Snitsky match, he got back at Cena with the special guest referee at the last second, but he hasn't done anything with HHH. The 14 on 2 was the closest. Match goes about a half hour, they'll have plenty of time to kill because it's a six-match card. Regal slams the cage door on HHH, Orton then punts him on his way to the door himself to escape and take the belt back. King Kamala Classic I don't know but I'm almost as excited for this match as HBK/Jericho. Despite the fact that it hasn't buildup worthy of a huge, blowoff cage match that it likely will be. I think Triple H wins in about 30 minutes in a very good, old school cage match. Both men will probably do blade jobs. The match will probably go **** maybe ****1/2. It seems like match tailor made for Triple H's style. Triple H goes on to feud with Regal and face him at ONS and maybe Night of Champions before he goes on to face Cena. Where is this show? Omaha? They don't get a lot of entertainment so they should be hot. Oldskool Omaha indeed. 909: It's not like this card is stacked by any stretch, though. King Kamala Classic: not really 909: The crowd could well be dead, after all, not like either of the main events are fresh matchups. millenniumman831: This sounds like it should be a 3-hour Raw or something King Kamala Classic: I think it'll be a good card though, wrestling-wise. Besides the women's match, I think every match has the potential to hit *** or higher. millenniumman831 I meant heat wise, a 3hr Raw. I'm sure the rasslin will be solid 909: The wrestling looks good, but I just can't wait until the two main event programs are done. Then it'll be easier to be enthusiastic about the product. King Kamala Classic: It's hard to gauge how hot the crowd will be since I don't think Omaha has held a PPV since In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies. Hunter's Torn Quad: Theoretically, they should be hot from the beginning. But who can tell Oldskool: They should be hot from the start, but I have a feeling they'll start with the women's triple threat and that'll quiet them right down. millenniumman831: I'm sure the Burchill/Crazy squash before the ppv goes on the air will get the crowd in a frenzy Oldskool: Burchill/Lea v. Crazy, you mean. King Kamala Classic: I can't remember a time when a women's match opened a show. It seems like it always gets the nachos break slot. 909: The women's match will probably fill between edge/taker and the cage match King Kamala Classic I'm going to guess Kane/CM Punk-Miz/Morrison opens Oldskool: I guess I'd go tag titles, women's title, JBL/Cena, Edge/Taker, Jericho/Michaels and HHH/Orton. King Kamala Classic: If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say; 1. Kane/CM Punk-Miz/Morrison 2. women's title 3. Edge/Taker 4. Jericho/Michaels, 5. JBL/Cena 6. Cage Oldskool: There are less matches on this card than there are titles in the company. That's sad. I don't think they'd go with three Raw matches in a row, and I really don't like JBL/Cena fifth considering how shittily that's been built. Edge/Taker third I can't argue, that match has played out well beyond its shelf life. 909: This show looks like the best workrate show they've put on in a while. Looks like it.

While we're doing album covers...

Eagles-esque sound. Country Rock sounds retarded. I get the others but what the hell's wrong with country rock? Anyways, generally any band that's compared to Guns 'N' Roses is bound to suck.

I really hate underground rap but a lot of that can attribute to its fans (See The Atmosphere thread).

Not sure if it was announced earlier but color me surprised that King of The Hill got another season. It seems like it's been on the ropes for almost its entire run. It may be the least heralded show that's lasted a decade.

I read that as Jay Mohr and Penny Marshall at first. If that was a sitcom and it got a slot on the fall schedule, I think I'd quit watching television forever.

Ironic Is professional wrestling racist? Which professional wrestler will next enter the world of politics?

fuck.you.

I feel like an ass for thinking at first that luke-o was talking about Friday (The Ice Cuba/Chris Tucker movie). I was wondering if Hollywood had truly gone mad for remaking a movie from 1995. Did anybody see the short lived Friday:The Animated Series? That may be a contender for worst prime-time animated series. I mean really what audience were they targeting there? Wiggers?

Dude, Ross Perot won everybody's mock election in 1992. I voted Perot in '92. Of course, I was in 1st grade. Shit, you're way older than I am. I don't remember who won ours, but I do remember that I voted for Clinton/Gore because of Al Gore's youthful energy and boyish good looks. I was a weird five year old. I wasn't yet in '92 but Ross Perot came in a close 2nd place in my 2nd grade class' mock election in '96. I led the Perot contingent because he looked goofy. In our 6th grade mock election, Ralph Nader got in 2nd place over Bush. And in the '04 high school mock election, my younger brother's campaigning (and bribary) gave the Libertarian candidate 3rd place. Much like Czech, I've kind of repressed a lot of my middle school memories. I know I have some mildly amusing anecdotes but I just can't think of them right now.

Actually, I was kind of going for a Larry Bird circa 1986 look, the three or four times I decided to grow a mustache. I set my expectations low when it comes to facial hair.

Fuck yes! My 7th and 8th grade French teacher always played "Les Champs Elysees" at the beginning of the class while we did warm-up writing exercises. There was this one dork who would spazz out when she played and would play air saxophone. That kid is now the drummer for a Christian rock band.

Hey, if anybody wants to be a part of the Judgment Day roundtable tomorrow night at 8 P.M. (Eastern Standard time), shoot me a PM.

NERDS!

I chuckled at the thought Archbishop Desmond Tutu as Intercontinental Champion. Just how tall was Andre The Giant? Will Hogan get another run? (Like looking into the future

What made Benoit do it? Damn idiots, always blaming beef stew.

who killed WCW? Fair enough Why is ashamed wrestling fan so ashamed to be a wrestling fan?

You know my opinion on this matter may not hold much credence but with all due respect to Limey Mcwhatshisface and Sensei John Kreese, I think the only one who can pull off the constant name change is Czech.