NYU

It's 9:07 est! Hoff has clearly forgotten about the show AGAIN!

This is utterly hilarious. At least TNA actually pays there talent unlike Heyman was for the last year or so of ECW's existence. He's the last person that should talk about a company losing money. Well, except the jobbers. TNA says they're not deserving enough to actually earn money for their work. They really are no better than ECW - except ECW was much more entertaining.

You know what would be even more funnier?????? The Red sox go another 86 years without a World Series championship. That way in 2090 Joe Buck the VI will be interviewing some old lady who was alive in 2004 when the Red Sox last one. That doesn't seem like it would be that funny.

I'll be first in line for that Rob Van Dam DVD.

But then again, it wouldn't do anything for either the value of the United States Championship or the reputation of John Cena. The Title match was surrounded by interference, and Cena needed a foreign object to beat a guy he passionately swore revenge against. We wouldn't even have an idea of who the better man was in this feud - both of them would have needed weapons to win (Cena needing a weapon against a man that had already admitted he was injured) - and with Carlito being injured and Cena filming a movie, we have no idea when we would have found out the answer to this question. There just is no problem with Carlito losing in this case. It might pop the crowd in the arena at the time, but it would do no favors for either guy at the end. He won the United States Championship in his first televised WWE match! How can you get much stronger than that? He's being pushed during the show. He's getting put in Main Events against people like John Cena and Rey Misterio. He was put in a high-profile Survivor Series Elimination match with a considerable amount of Smackdown Main Eventers. He's had an entire prominent storyline involved around him with the Cena Nightclub angle. He's looked very strong in the two months he's been in the federation thus far. One clean title loss will not kill him, nor make him look weaker to the point where the fans don't respect him. You're overreacting.

See, I'm not a real fan of that finish. When Cena used the steel chain at WrestleMania XX, the fans loved it because they figured Cena really had no other way to win the match. The Big Show already had such a towering advantage over him and, if the FU wasn't enough to put him down, what would be? The weapon use there was fine because it was realistic. In this case, I think the situation would be a little different. First off, Cena and Carlito are pretty much alike in physical structure. Neither of them are much bigger than the other. With this being true, Cena really shouldn't HAVE to use a steel pipe to get the advantage. Cena isn't Eddie Guerrero. Cheating isn't his gimmick, nor should it be. If he was passionate enough to get revenge on Carlito like he said he was, he shouldn't need to realize on a sneaky pipe shot which only came thanks to failed interference. He should let his passion take over through both his wrestling and his brawling skills. In the end, what does using a pipe against your hated enemy really accomplish? Beating him cleanly in the ring does so much more to satisfy the fans revenge-wise. As for protecting Carlio in this situation, most heels typically lose clean in title matches. Why should this be any different? Honestly, by the time Carlito comes back, there shouldn't really be any people that disregard him for losing to Cena quickly. They'll dislike his conceited attitude just as they did before. There is absolutely no shame in someone losing clean in a title match - in theory, that is what should happen in nearly all championship matches. It makes the new champion look stronger and, if the situation is handled right, shouldn't hurt the loser. If you start complaining about how this title loss shouldn't have been handled cleanly, it could start a bad precedent for other WWE Title losses in the future.

They didn't even properly mention the injury until this taping, and even then it was handled in a way that will make the causal fan think he was faking it, so if he does complain about it nobody will take him seriously. If they wanted to get the US belt off CCC in a quick match, they could have done a finish where Jesus's interference backfires, or CCC 'injures' himself, either of which would have done far less damage to him, and at least they could use footage of that for a storyline explanation for his injury. At least then people would be able to see CCC get injured, and his claim would be more believable. As it is, all the people saw was a chickenshit heel get killed in less than five minutes before losing clean in the middle. If WWE was really behind CCC, they wouldn't have done that. You seem to be turning this into one of those "damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't" cases. You COULD have Carlito lose the match due to backfired interference from Jesus, but then what about Cena? His title win is immediately devalued, because he beat a guy that had already admitted earlier in the night that he was injured. In addition, Cena just wouldn't look strong in this circumstance - at least, not strong enough for a guy you're pushing as both a future Main Eventer and a possible movie star. With your scenarios, he either: a) Scored a cheap win over a guy thanks to botched interference or b) Managed to win only because Carlito hurt his shoulder first. With this being done, Cena not only DOESN'T get his revenge - which did need to happen, since Carlito will be missing for roughly three months AND Cena will be off filming a movie - and both guys look all the worse for how the match turned out. Truth be told, there would also be complaining around here from those that find a problem with WWE Title matches often ending without a clean decision. There are simply those that are tired of interference or tired of extraneous controversies surrounding championship matches, and they want it to come down to seeing the better man win. These would be the people that would hate a devalued title win like this. On the other hand, you COULD have Carlito lose the match cleanly and in a relatively quick fashion. This bolsters the claim earlier in the night that he was injured, and re-establishes John Cena as a strong U.S. Champion - at least for the time being. In addition, there were no controversies surrounding the Championship match, so it's not as if the title win has been demeaned. However, like you said, it doesn't exactly make Carlito look good. He was beaten rather quickly by Cena and made to look like a paper champion. But keep in mind that when he originally won the title from Cena - when he was 100% healthy - he was able to hold his own in the match and outsmart Cena at the end. In this match - when he had admitted earlier in the night that he was injured - he was beaten rather handily. If the announcers could play that up the right way, Carlito's reputation won't be damaged too much. As of now, I really don't think this title loss and the fashion in which it happened will hurt Carlito too much. I also certainly don't think it shows that WWE has completely given up faith in him. As long as they handle the situation properly when he comes back, everything should be fine.

When I saw the subject line, I thought there was a possibility that this could be about possible huge news concerning the Mets. Imagine my complete and utter shock when I actually opened the thread.

Coffey, I posted in the new board yesterday that we could use a man like you there. Take that as you will.

Personally, I hate that recent Taco Bell commercial with the Zesty Chicken Bowl, or whatever they're calling it these days. Maybe it's just because I've worked in fast food before, but I find the promo particularly annoying. The workers can't start making it until someone orders it, so what does one hilarious customer do in front of his girlfriend? Why, he PRETENDS to order it, just so he could see this kid earning minimum-wage run back and forth, not sure of what to do. Then, at the end, we're supposed to be pleased that this guy got his comeuppance - because his unrealistically good-looking girlfriend PRETENDED to give him a piece of chicken but then ate it herself. Oh, cruel irony! This guy must have surely learned the error of his ways! Just terrible.

Crono, I think your OAO Raw board-bid is a lost cause at this point.... Hang it up, kid.

Before the match, did anybody in the crowd think Maven could ACTUALLY find a way to beat Triple H for the World Heavyweight Championship? Nope. But by the end of the match, the entire building was on their feet, believing - for at least one minute - that this glorified jobber had a chance of winning the Heavyweight Title. They got the crowd COMPLETELY into a match that, with all respect, should have been heatless. The match proved to be both exciting and entertaining. How much more can you ask from a HHH/Maven Heavyweight Title match? I think they did a respectable job with the match tonight.

Cursing at this new board is a MUST! That has to be resolved....

As the wily veteran trying to return back to his golden days of yore, I have offered myself for modship at this new OAO Board.

Hmm. I stop attending these OAO Raw threads, and suddenly the entire business is being shipped away from TSM. ......I think this proves how much of a draw I am.

Quick rundown of the card: WWE Heavyweight Championship: John Bradshaw Leyfield© vs. Booker T -------------------------------------------------------- Classic Survivor Series Elimination Match - Winner Gets Control of Raw: Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho/Maven/Randy Orton vs. Triple H/Batista/Edge/Gene Snitsky -------------------------------------------------------- Classic Survivor Series Elimination Match: Eddie Guerrero/Rob Van Dam/The Big Show/John Cena vs. Kurt Angle/Carlito Carribean Cool/Mark Jindrak/Luther Reigns -------------------------------------------------------- The Undertaker vs. John Heidenreich -------------------------------------------------------- WWE Intercontinental Championship: Shelton Benjamin© vs. Christian -------------------------------------------------------- WWE Women's Championship: Trish Stratus© vs. Lita -------------------------------------------------------- WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Spike Dudley© vs. Rey Misterio vs. Billy Kidman vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr. Discuss.

Yeah. Edited that accordingly. Either way, Jindrak has been on Raw for a while, as well as in WCW. You should at least be able to identify who he is.

You should watch more closely then....

Silly. Kevin Brown can't be traded to the Yankees.....

Well, it's good to know that, if anything were to ever happen to the President, we have a strong and healthy Vice-President to take charge. Wait for it..... Shit! No we don't!

I figured this match should probably get posted here.... OAOAST Heavyweight Championship The Elimination Chamber Sly Sommers vs. Crystal vs. Axel vs. Drek Stone vs. Ragdoll vs. Chris Stevens

Well, this thread is certainly hopping this week.

Friends don't want to hear any truth from a fellow friend that could disagree with them. Accept that they have a different viewpoint from you and move on. Especially if the friend has a personal issue in the subject - in this case, perhaps she has a close gay friend who has complained to her about the marriage issue before. What works at TSM does NOT work in real life. For the most part, it's just easier to stay away from the conversational topic of politics and political-related subject matter altogether. Unless you're absolutely sure that this person wants to have a discussion about those topics in the first place.

Hoff, I'm assuming turning back the clocks two weeks ago is what threw you off about posting the show up tonight. No problem - some just have a harder time than others getting used to the time change. Oh.....well, that's not good. You know, if Amant Green was looking in this thread right now, he'd say "Damn, Hoff, you really fumbled......." Yeah, forget it. Loses its effectiveness the second time around. Well, anyway, let's roll with some feedback. - Cute preshow segment with Jasmine and The White Stripes to start off the show. It was pretty entertaining to read, and that's really all you can ask for. Fun stuff. -I loved the way the beginning segments just seemed to flow with each other. Hoff is vacating the title?!?! *GASP* Well...yeah.....I knew that already. Either way, it was an effective statement from Watts, that set up the stage for Drek's passionate promo and Axel's surprise attack. The Elimination Chamber should really be a LOT of fun at Thanksgiving Star Wars. - Very good segment between Calvin and Zack. I like that Calvin finally decided to confront Zack over his behavior, and there's a real sense of mystery towards discovering who it was that actually attacked Hoff last week. It's been exciting to see Thrillogy break apart the seams - and finally get a glimpse at the fact that these guys may have never liked each other in the beginning - and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes next. -Really fun contest between Nate Tethers and Danny Douglas. The high-flying stuff at the beginning was really innovative and I liked the way that the entire series of headscissors led them to where the sequence had started off. Danny's wrestling style is actually really interesting. It adds a whole new dimension to the matches in the OAOAST when you have a guy that's willing to base his entire moveset around old-school moves, without resorting to the flashy stuff that impresses so many people today. I was a little surprised to see Nate get so much offense, but it made sense when Danny - of course - brought out the brass knuckles. Really good match. -Excellent Triple Threat match between Rodez and The Global Party Xchange. Loved the opening spot with GPX making Rodez dance along with them. It was great to see the GPX actually stay UNITED throughout the entire match. You always see the tag team always eventually turn on each other in this type of setting, but the fact that the GPX stood together really shows their strength as a team. Rodez looked like a million bucks here, having the strength to overcome both guys before soon making Static tap at the end. Everyone involved looked better at the end of the match, which is what may be its ultimate strength. -Funny segment between Chris and James. I'm really interested to see where Rando goes with this. -Good stuff from the South Central Militia. I don't know if I like the idea that they could be trying to build themselves up as faces, but everything done so far has been done well, so I'll wait before I judge. I really like the nasty attitudes these guys have and I seriously think they can add so much to the Tag Team division. Now..... Gold. Either way, good promo from Chris Stevens in preparation for the Elimination Chamber. Not much more to say here. -Short, but sweet, match from the New New Midnight Express. Once again, they quickly prove themselves to be a continued strong force in the OAOAST. However, that wasn't the real story here. Scary stuff from Hell's Hitmen. Only they could throw dummies of their opponents into flaming garbage cans, then beat each other up afterwards, and have it make perfect sense. The buildup for that match at Thanksgiving Star Wars (HA!) has just been awesome. -Excellent match between Panther/Tina and The Illuminators. Lots of action in this one, with some really believable near-falls at the end. Kevin Yancy Taylor has established himself to be a true prick in the federation in a short time, and this is just a testament to Panther's writing ability. Again, really nice Main Event. Really fun show, everyone. There was some great stuff here, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what everyone has planned for Thanksgiving Star Wars (Thanksgiving Star Wars? What the hell does that name.....forget it). Again, awesome writing this week. Seriously.