Promoter

Yeah, Hardy didn't help matters. He got punked and fired and fans are suppose to really side with a loser like that? All I'm saying about Edge is that he was receiving Randy Orton champion heat in 2004. Yeah, it got people talking, but only because it came out of nowhere. Once that wears off they are back to square one of devaluing their top babyface and heel. Yes, people Cena is their top babyface with the exception of Shawn Michaels. People are only cheering HHH because he is not hogging the damn title at the moment, but we all know the anvil will drop sometime.

You see if Edge is so hot and over it shouldn't matter. He really is a heatless wonder imo. The creative team just had to honor the MITB stip and the elimination chamber was perfect. Anyone really believes Edge would keep this heat going past Mania? I don't. Look at the guy's track record. Besides, doesn't everyone complain about the wwe not going with long term planning? Now, they are doing it and there's complaints all over the net.

Completely agree!

I guess I'm the only one who feels the wwe did the right thing with Cena regaining the belt. Guys, Cena sells merchandise and he has the younger audience behind him. That is why there's a split in the crowd. Besides, he is more PR friendly as champion. I knew Edge was just a distraction as champion. Why is it also not seen as Cena's long reign and loss to Edge didn't help spark interest? Edge doesn't deserve all the credit for the ratings increase. It could very well also be Cena's chase for the belt. I do agree that maybe they could have stretched it, but we'll see where this is heading. Besides, as I said in the other thread Edge will be a threat to HHH's position as the #1 heel on RAW if he kept on with the title. It's kind of politics mixed in all of this. I just hope they don't do the dusty finish for the Rumble when there is no controversy about who the winner is. The Rumble stip is one stip that actually sticks in wrestling with the exception of something like 1997 or 1999. I also didn't like the Rumble being third from last on the card either. The Undertaker nonsense could have happened on smackdown. Again, the hollywood crap is unnecessary. Shane/HBK for Mania? It would make a lot more sense to do Rated R Superstar vs. HBK at Mania imo. I mean, that story writes itself. Edge is Vince's new HBK against the born-again HBK at Mania. Would Hogan have been Hogan in the internet age?? The reasoning for putting the belt back on Cena was because he is a great, great PR man and sells crazy amounts of merchandise. It is known that women and children love him and that most men hate him, though males 18-49 is the WWE's "target audience". It was felt that turning him heel would negate all of this and kill his marketability. Edge does not deserve all the credit for the ratings increase because of this........ -It's the Royal Rumble-Mania timeframe. If this was HHH in the position I bet everyone would be using this as the reason for the increase. -The wwe used the trainwreck of the live sex show to keep viewers glued. They could have used the angle with someone else and it would have resulted in the same thing. -They brought back Ric Flair and put him in a title match in Flair country. If they had used Angle or HHH in the role it can easily be argued the same result in terms of ratings. -The fans were backlashing against Cena and wanted him to drop the belt since the Kurt Angle feud. A title change out of nowhere results in "anything can happen" atmosphere when there was a status quo for most of 2005 with the same champions on both brands. -The above situation added with Kurt Angle winning the title out of nowhere on smackdown makes the viewers believe that if they miss anything especially around this time of year they will miss out. For all the cruising done in 2005 with Batista and Cena as champions it levels out by making fans get comfortable with a situation, thus when little things occur out of the norm it brings back fans. -Yes, they could put Cena underneath a title match at Mania, but it causes a situation that happened in wcw. The established guys still are used at the top, while the younger guys are shunted in the middle. Cena and HBK are the only real babyfaces on RAW and using both of them in the middle of the card is not smart. It seems that HBK is not going to win the title anytime soon if ever again and they are building Cena as a real main event championship wrestler. It worked getting HHH over in 1999-2000 and Kurt Angle in 2000-2001. Eventually, the fans will have to accept Cena is the future main eventer for the business. Besides, from what I saw on the RAW promo for tonight Edge is getting a title re-match. He could very well get the title back.

Okay, if I had the book, WrestleMania from what we have now would go down like this........... Main Event(last match) Kurt Angle defends the title against Rey Mysterio Storyline: Mysterio will try to duplicate what Eddie did in 2004 by winning a world title. I know this is dumb since they just turned him and fans are rallying behind him, but it seems Angle will have to turn tweener at the least. I mean, how else can Angle look in this scenario? Trying to stop Rey's dream of becoming champion and "doing it for Eddie"(which I don't like). They might as well go the full gusto and also use the Hall of Fame ceremony to induct Eddie Guerrero with Rey doing the honors. The next night he goes against Angle for the title. John Cena defends the title against Shawn Michaels Yes, forget Triple H for now. You have Vince backing John Cena who represents this generation's rock 'n roll, sex, and drugs. You also play up the Vince/Shawn feud by telling HBK he is washed up and that it's been a decade since he first won the wwe title at WM 12. Since HBK said he wants to scale back his ring time in the coming year create some kind of stip such as HBK's last title match ever if he doesn't win the title. It doesn't seem they will ever put the title back on him anyways. Have Cena be tweener where he's relunctant to do what Vince wants, but he is also kind of playing Vince since he's the champion. Cena and HBK both beat Vince's ass in a post match beatdown. Hopefully, if creative is told to keep Cena face this will work. Hulk Hogan vs. "The Legend Killer" Randy Orton Already stated by other poster. Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit Just simply state that Benoit is the deadliest threat to UT's winning streak. He's never met a wrestling machine like Benoit at Mania. Edge vs. Mick Foley This also works because Edge can claim he is now the Rated R superstar and king of "hardcore". Edge can brag about being the king of TLC matches and challenges Foley to a TLC match. If Edge had a good one with Flair, I'm sure Foley would be easier. You can also do Edge vs. Hogan in a similar situation with the WM 6 story as a backdrop. RVD vs. Shelton Benjamin (US title) Booker vs. Lashley This is a good idea HHH vs. Big Show *Other scenarios Flair vs. Foley

Quote 15. About Undertaker’s threats: “Somehow a rumor got out that Undertaker stood in the hallway taping his fists as I made my way to the curtain. The insinuation was that ‘taker was letting me know that I better do business and not try any funny stuff. Plain and simple, this never happened. It was “reported” as fact, but is nothing more than an urban legend that someone felt compelled to make up." (p. 286) ------------------- Who reported this? It came straight out of the mouth of Taker on OTR. I guess he's saying UT made this up. He didn't say word for word how Shawn repeats it here, but he did say he warned HBK he better do business before he did his match with Austin.

I still think anyone of the same talent would have created interest. The fans were backlashing against Cena's long reign and then all of a sudden he drops the belt in a screwed up fashion. Then that champion uses sex to sell his first night as champion on RAW followed by almost beheading Ric Flair. They could have used Carlito and the same interest would have happened or even Shelton Benjamin. The thing that should be remembered is how hot was Edge before and after the Matt Hardy situation? That is the real Edge imo. We'll see. Hopefully, the guy can prove me wrong, but I have seen this same type of "interest" in a new champion in guys like Randy Orton in 2004 when he won the title out of nowhere and we know where that went. The titles changed hands plenty of times in 1999 because of stupid booking and for the fact that the wwe was not sure of Austin's stature and they were building up The Rock for a babyface run. The same thing in 1992. Hulk Hogan's status with the company was up in the air because of the steroid situation and the wwe didn't really have a babyface to fall back on after the mad man Warrior disappeared once again. They finally decided to trust Bret with the belt by the end of the year. In 2002, the same scenario happened with the hot potato saga until they put the title on Lesnar. The wwe is in limbo with Cena right now and I still think they want him to be the top babyface.

Angle is a face now. They have booked him that way since the switch back to SD. Further proof bob is onto something in regards to WWE not knowing exactly what it's going to do. Also, the Observer and Torch have said since the injury to Batista, Vince and WWE Creative have blown up their original Mania plans and are going in a different direction, hence Angle-sudden babyface. Yes, Angle is face now. However that is not by their own doing. The fans forced them when all they were doing was chanting his name in matches. They tried everything from having him beat up women to disprespecting the troops. They just didn't turn him face out of the blue. It would just look more silly as the weeks go by with Angle getting face reaction and them ignoring it. It actually proves the wwe IS listening to the fans at some level. They wanted Angle to become a world champion and they gave it to them with the world heavyweight title(of course, those rumours of Henry winning the title would absolutely shoot my theory out the window ). If Rey Mysterio wins the Rumble, how is there a change of plans if that's what they wanted to do? It seems Orton is getting punished for his dad's deed(thank heavens) and we will not see him win the damn rumble as reported a few weeks ago. That would explain him losing the HIAC and being put into the US title scenario. Besides, the fans online pretty much crapped on the idea of Orton winning the Rumble. So maybe the wwe saw this and scrapped it by going with Rey Mysterio. If Mysterio was going to face heel Batista what's the difference? Angle is known for flip flopping from both side of the fence. I'm usually quick to point out the crap the wwe does, but I also do credit them for doing things right. The whole Batista scenario was sharp thinking by having Angle replace him in a shocking world title win and turning him face which he was kind of anyways to the fans.

Vince's character is so off from what made him great it isn't funny. What happened to the power is back crap? The stuff with Thea shows that they are still stuck with the Vince that no one cared about. No one wants to see creeoy old man Vince. I don't think anyone ever really wanted to see that. The Vince people cared about was the one who did the promo with HBK. I think that's a good foil to get HBK's character interesting again. Vince needs to be the boss who manipulates people fo his own joy and business reasons. Business wise, Vince would want the old HBK back because he was a trendsetter that broke rules. To hell with HBK's happiness and well being in life, Vince wants more big bucks by trying to lure the old HBK back. This makes sense. It also makes sense if The Rock comes back as Vince's new hired goon to put "sense" into HBK with his past as the corporate champion of wwe. The angles are there, but they are so tied up in trying to make things all hollywood they trip on themselves. I'm sure Vince can use the 10 year anniversary of HBK winning his first title at Mania in a storyline heading into the event. Vince has to get back to being Vince the real prick behind the scenes a la the Montreal incident and play off that instead of making up scenarios to have people hate him such as the creepy old man stunts. It comes off as too much acting unlike the Vince of 1997 and 1998 that seemed to be genuinely a prick to his wrestlers which is why he had so much heat. He's trying too much to be over the top now and has been for years. What happened to the announcement of a new general manager anyways?

This may very well be true, but do you know this for fact? It's in their best interest to make the net fans think this to cut down the predictability of the shows. The wwe does plan everything around WrestleMania and SummerSlam. Stuff change in between that time, but they usually have the main events planned or at least the matches they want to draw for the event since it is their marquee events. I know stuff happens and they do hotshot angles, but read what I wrote again. The wwe does NOT want heel champions running the show so much anymore. Edge seems to be a distraction. Now this is not to say they could just keep the title on him and have him defend it at Mania. The bottom line is that HHH and Angle are probably the only heel champions the wwe would trust to have on a long term basis and rightly so. I still don't trust Edge not to in his own words "Billy Gunn" the title if given a reign like JBL. If they wanted a heel champion Cena would have just been turned. Angle would have just remained heel.

It's not just people here praising Edge's reign so far either. I actually do think the wwe plans long term(there happens to be things that they wing though) and that's why I still believe Cena/HHH is going to be the wwe title match. Rey Mysterio winning also ties into long term planning because we read those rumours of Mysterio main eventing Mania around the time of Eddie's death when he did that stupid angle on the smackdown special. I remember the Batista/Rey rumours for the world title at Mania with Batista turning on Rey. They could have simply put Angle in Batista's spot which makes good sense with his face heat, plus we know it's a great match waiting to happen. It's for this reason it could very well be the wwe planning long term and not hotshotting. This Edge thing could have simply been a back-up plan for the heel heat Cena was getting against the veteran wrestlers at top. Everyone hates Edge and having him dethrone Cena gives him his face heat back and also makes him more vulnerable for making people think he has a chance of losing at Mania's championship match.

I'm talking about ratings always rise around this time of year for the wwe because of the Rumble and WrestleMania build. I just don't agree with people on the net who think Edge is this great champion because of a couple of weeks of ratings jumping. They used the live sex angle. They used Edge almost beheading Flair. They used Edge winning the title in a cheap stunt all around the build for Royal Rumble. They took the title off superman. IMO, it just simply isn't Edge causing interest here. Angle winning the world title out of nowhere also has caused the vibe that anything can happen again after months and months of staying the course of babyface champions.

Could it just be that maybe Cena's long reign and Edge getting a cheap win through the MIB got people interested again? Plus, it's the road to Mania timeframe and the ratings always go up around this time. At least this shows Vince that people are interested in wrestling and that rating from the court room raw isn't any proof to go the way of hollywood wrestling.

The DVD actually looks like people are hating on Warrior more than anything else. Seriously, a newer fan watches it and just says if he was so bad why did he get so big in the game. He was more over than all of the roster today. It seems Hogan kind of sympathized with Warrior somewhat due to him being similar in terms of contracts disputes and having a huge following. Perspnally. I want to see a SAVAGE DVD PROMPTO! Warrior made no sense when he did promos, but damn if he didn't get you pumped to want to see the match.

Edge vs. HHH as the main event? UH!!! Cena should have just turned heel with the belt and faced Hogan at Mania, but what do I know. Vince/HBK is even worse. They really got some kind of hate for Chicago and Manias there eh? 2 at least had the battle royal(NFL) and The Bulldogs winning the titles.

I'm going to have to agree about the wwe's use of kayfabe. It's really inconsistent and it is a big reason why they can't get people to boo Angle with all the tricks of turning him on the troops. In 1997-98 the wwe was much better in making people believe that the wrestler's gimmick or character were the actual person with the volume turned up. It is why Vince Mcmahon 1997-1998 was much easier to hate without all the damn overacting of 2005 Vince Mcmahon. It is why Kurt Angle can't get booed because no one is really believing any of the crap he is saying about the troops. When Vince said Bret screwed Bret in 1997 people really believed that was at least apart of the real Vince Mcmahon. The wwe is so backwards that they are STILL trying to go back with the Montreal screwjob angle lately and fail to realize WHY it worked so damn well in the first place. Pro wrestling "kept it real" in the mid to late 90's by having wrestlers become less gimmicks and an extension of themselves in storylines that were kept in a combat sport element. Now they are just lost trying all sorts of crap. Wasn't Vince just said to be angry about the net and Flair hating fans using insider terms? Make up ya damn minds already!!!

The wwe will use this rating to do more "casting calls" at production houses in hollywood

Jeeez!!! I knew that some of what I saw this past monday was a bad sign. You know the acting of the court room and then trying to pass it off into kayfabe in the arena. The wwe is trying to be something it isn't and that is a bad real television show in the strictest acting form. I'm talking real b-acting junk too. Why not just have Shelton team back up with Angle in a heel turn and be assholes who are elite athletes on raw? The OT scenario would fit Shelton to a tee because he does do things in there that no one else can and he can easily be all arrogant about it. Why couldn't they get a real actress to be Linda Mcmahon if they want to go this route. She is worse than a cut out cardboard in terms of talent. They job the hell out of the guy and now this!!!!! He looked stupid as it was on monday for that loss. I knew the guy was headed to the doghouse after his IC title reign got cut for no damn reason and the wwe failed to promote him as a long reigning champion. Poor Shelton indeed.

So does this mean we will see the wwe stoop to lower levels in "shock tv" by having HHH and Steph "perform" in the ring on a monday night? It is funny how all this HHH stuff comes up all of a sudden they tease Hunter and Steph on camera.

Hardy as champ is ridiculous I agree.

Seriously, if that was Triple H I got a few constructive things to say(I don't buy this crap about him just getting online). Anyways......... Speak to your father in-law and tell him to watch some 24/7 to see some old school wwf in 1985-1988. That was the best presentation of "sports entertainment" in history. The wrestling was believable, the characters compelling, kayfabe was strong, wrestlers weren't overexposed, and they weren't cheap stunts to get our attention. Then look at the wwf from the summer of '97 til with the USA/Canada angle til about Royal Rumble '99 and see what good storytelling is all about. Again, there was a very good line between kayfabe and reality that engaged fans. Tell Vince that Austin and The Rock became huge household names because they didn't screw up the damn characters like they are doing currently with John Cena. This is what I think WrestleMania 22 should be all about..... If you want John Cena to carry the belt for a year there's no problem, but bring back the John Cena of 2003 for crying out loud and ACKNOWLEDGE the damn boos. If you really want to impress people again you should move over to smackdown and bring that brand back to the levels it was at initially. In 2000, you got a lot of praise on the net for stabilizing the wwf title from that radical title changing year of 1999. Most important make freaking sense with storylines. If Triple H AND Stephanie are getting back together on television DON'T IGNORE THE PAST and start from scratch and insult us all. GET MORE REALISTIC WITH THE STORYTELLING!!!! I would go on with more stuff, but who knows if this is even HHH anyways or if it's a funny joke(because it is..it seems this is what Triple H would say).

Well, in a perfect world I bet Vince would like to use World Wrestling Federation again and just omit the initials. He has RAW with the original titles of the wwf. Over on smackdown he has The E titles. Now going into fantasy booking World Wrestling Federation and World Wrestling Entertainment as two brands is much better than RAW and Smackdown. The power is back on RAW with the old World Wrestling Federation and smackdown would represent the Entertainment vision and would be WWE. WWF can represent the tradition of the company and WWE can represent the "entertainment" (action adventure) vision they seem to be shoving down our throats. This would really create two distinct brands. Of course, I'm dreaming.

I'm going to have to agree about Warrior not having any real threatening contenders as world champion and that hurt some of his drawing power. We had just seen Rude and Warrior 7 months prior battling for the IC title at SummerSlam. How likely would people believe Rude had a chance of dethroning the man who cleanly beat Hogan the following spring? The time Warrior's reign started picking up steam was the Savage altercation and then he lost to Slaughter of all people. The people did care when Warrior defeated Hogan. Now, it should also be noted that Warrior got boos in some places because he pinned Hogan too.

You know, the guy who posted this topic does have a point about it seeming more legit under World Wrestling Federation. I watch 24/7 and the old wwf stuff just has the feel to it that today's shows are desperately missing. It seemed like the wrestlers were actually competing in a sport. Today, there are focusing too much on hollywood crap like last week's Tuesday smackdown. It wouldn't be that bad if it was entertaining, but it's not. World Wrestling Entertainment is a lame name and I hate when they refer to guys like Bret Hart or Sammartino with the phrase. If they could bring back the wwf it would also help the brand split. Let smackdown be WWE and raw be WWF. Which one do you think Vince would concentrate on? Creative couldn't even come up with a creative name for the brands or the new company name. Vince should have just gone back to World Wide Wrestling Federation. Yeah, the w is redundant in terms of saying the initials, but saying the whole name aloud for the matches sound much better than World Wrestling Entertainment. World Championship Wrestling actually sounds much better too. Anyways, this aint gonna happen. Whatever happened to the Hulkamania name disaster too? I know Hogan bought some of it or something. Leave it to Vince to mess up his two most vital names in company history. Next thing we know one of the Beatles gets the name WrestleMania taken away

So, who's lying? Taker or HBK on the Mania 14 issue. I saw the interview with Taker too. Anyways, Hogan is a good worker or was. Hogan was a very good worker especially in 1984-1988. He had good timing and even though he did a limited moveset he knew how to stretch it out in his matches. That's not even taking into account how he made his matches seem like big boxing events. His crap started in 1989 with the Zeus nonsense and lazy really took over by 1991 with his feud with Taker. Hart and Austin are also excellent workers. Austin still put on great matches as heel champion in 2001, but I think people forgot about those matches with Angle and Benoit. He also came back full throttle unlike HBK in 2002 upon return. I'm a HBK mark, but he's way off with some comments. I will agree Hart started the whole mess between them by downgrading him after losing at Mania 12.