RavishingRickRudo

First of all, to get the SurSer stuff out of the way; Benoit looked stronger than Jericho in that match. Since your main argument for him being "destroyed" there is that he went out first, and Jericho lasted longer (and yet, in my opinion, looked weaker), it seemed to be a valid point. JERICHO NEVER LOOKS STRONG. It's like saying "Dog Shit smells better than Horse Shit" It IS actually possible to look strong even if you lose. Monday, Benoit looked strong by beating HHH from pillar to post, before losing to dirty tactics because the champ couldn't do it any other way. Thus, it follows that he is as good or better than the champ. Thus, he looks strong. This can't be that hard to grasp? It's not hard to grasp, and in a match like Benoit vs. Angle RR03 or Benoit vs. Lesnar Smackdown, it's true. Not here. At that time, Benoit hadn't been the champion. Here, Benoit already had been and was dropped down the card immediately after he lost the title. Here he wasn't even contender for the title, but rather, being used by Batista to hurt HHH. The "beating" he gave HHH was irrelvant because HHH came out 20 minutes later perfectly fine. Benoit had even failed to be a proper goon. HHH always wins by dirty tactics, and by burying his opponents afterwards and them not winning in the end makes the fact that he had to "cheat to beat them" irrelevant. This is the HHH playbook, grasp it. The problem here seems more to be people confusing "could have looked even stronger" with "looked weak". I'm not in any way arguing that Benoit looked as strong Monday as if he potentially could have. But right now, storyline-wise, Benoit is chasing a title shot, He is? Damn. Really? It really hasn't seemed like it. It seems like he just luckily got thrown into a match that just happened to turn into a #1 contenders match. and HHH is being built up as a strong champ to make a win for Batista mean that much more. That means putting HHH over here is the right booking. Putting over HHH always seems to be the right booking. The problem is, it seems the only way to put HHH over is to kill the rest of the roster in the process. HHH has been continually pushed for SIX FUCKING YEARS. He doesn't need any more build!! That doesn't mean Benoit is suddenly nevermore a threath to HHH. Honestly, if losing a match to the champion means you're not a main eventer, then the number of main eventers would be about, say 1, at any given time (whch, of course, occasionally hasn't been far from the truth in the WWE, but that's another story). Benoit losing points out how far Benoit has fallen. That they gave him the chance to be champion and a year later he is nothing again. What do you think that suggests? Failure.

RRR, your such a mark for Benoit that it's blinding you to the purpose of the show. I am not arguing what is good or bad for the show, I am arguing what is good or bad for _Benoit_. Last year, they were trying to build Benoit up as their top star. They gave him clean wins over HHH and HBK, and tried to make him into their top draw. He didn't set the world on fire enough to be given an Austin or Rock level multi-year run as the top face, but he was established as a solid main eventer. What the fuck were you watching last year? Are we talking about the same guy who curtain jerked a PPV _as champion_ (Bad Blood)? Who spent the vast majority of his time in the ring with Ric Flair and Batista? They guy who wasn't even the primary character in his own feuds (vs Kane)? The guy who rarely ever got promo time, let alone Rock/Austin promo time? Benoit was a lame duck champion, there is no denying that. This year, they're trying to build up Batista as their top star. Since HHH was beaten so many times by Benoit last year, Benoit actually needs to put over HHH, so that it will be clear who the top guy on the show is when Batista wins at Wrestlemania. Otherwise, even though Batista will be portrayed as the top guy, there will be a feeling that it's the same old thing rather than something new and exciting. Actually, it doesn't. Benoit moving down the card while HHH remains on top pretty much makes it clear who the top guy on the card is.

It was Robs powerplay that saved Amber. She owes him that victory. He gets major points in being the only survivor going into the finals with a win/win situation.

10 UFC fights that haven't been mentioned yet. Royce Gracie vs. Kimo UFC III - It was Nog/Sapp nearly 10 years earlier. I remember at the time hearing about Kimo from one of my friends and how carried a cross to the ring. It was so badass. Just a war between the two and it showed that Royce Gracie was human. Randy Couture vs. Vitor Belfort UFC XV - when I got "back into" MMA, these two were instantly my favourites because they were able to cross-genres. Couture, the wrestler, had boxing training and submitted his earlier opponents. Belfort, a GJJ student, was drilling others with his hands. This fight is/was amazing. A great dynamic that shows the benefits of age and the detriments of youth. Mo Smith vs. Mark Coleman UFC XIV - One of my all time favourite fights. The story is Mark Coleman is unstoppable, and Maurice Smith is going to get punished. Coleman had been successful in the UFC by Grounding and Pounding his opponents and never letting up until the ref stopped it or they tapped out. This fight shows what happens when the opponent is able to weather the storm and symbolizes how you can't just get by on one style. It was one of the first real examples of strategy being used in an MMA match rather than relying on pure skill. Carlos Newton vs. Dan Henderson UFC XVII - Two of the most entertaining fighters ever going at it. Non stop. Great spots, they go everywhere. One of the best fights ever. Jerry Bohlander vs. Kevin Jackson UFC XVI - Under-the-radar, it has some nice psychology involved and tells a good story. Jackson being prone to the armbar, his issues with the lions den, etc. Matt Serra vs. Shonie Carter UFC XXXI - This happened around the time I got back into MMA and it showed how far it had come and how competitive it was. Really active fight with a spectacular finish. Matt Serra vs. Kelly Dullanty UFC XXXVI - Quick, but so active. Dullanty does the impossible by escaping one choke just to get caught in another one. JIU JIT SU~! Ian Freeman vs. Tiger White UFC XLIII - Mentioned in another thread, time will probably pass over this one but it's still a great fight. Back and Forth, it goes everywhere. They should have a rematch. Josh Thomson vs. Gerald Strebendt UFC XLIV - Like Dullanty/Serra, its quick but active. Strebendt is amazing going from one submission to another, but unlike Serra/Dullanty, Thomson is able to stop the subrush with a pimpsmack. Matt Hughes vs. GSP UFC L - Just happened a few months ago, I was on the edge of my seat for the entire 5 minutes. Just when you think there could be a changing of the guard, Hughes pulls out a beautiful armbar.

You just like the idea of their team name being "Kanejamin"

Fun Fact: Terry O'Quinn auditioned for the part of Walt.

Follow up one close minded, foolish comment up with one equally close minded, and foolish. Nice work! What, exactly, would you define this response as? It *is* a fact that boxing is one aspect of MMA. Guys train in boxing, muay thai, jiu jitsu, wrestling, etc. Boxers just focus on boxing. How is that not a fact?

The best MMA match smokes the best boxing match.

HHH came out like 20 minutes later and he was ok. You'd think that after this awesome beating Benoit gave him, that HHH would be a lil bit sore? Nope. Tired? Nope. Showing any injury at all? NOPE.

Putting Kane in the 2nd match was a bit of a curveball and I'll have to see where they are going with it. If they do a screwy finish to build up "heat" between the two, then Kane is definitely winning the ladder match.

The proper psychology for "Benoit is HHH's biggest threat" would be to save him for LAST. Put HHH up against other wrestlers who have challenged him in the past (Jericho and Benjamin, for example) in hopes that they chip away at HHH, so that the last guy -Benoit- can rip right through him and leave him completely vunerable for a beating at WM. Of course, I think the whole idea sucks so I don't endorse this idea, BUT, if the theory is "Benoit can fuck HHH up", then that's how it would go. I don't know how it made Benoit look strong when he lost. Last year he "won". This means that Benoit is worse now than he was last year.

Here is how I would rank em. 1. Kane 2. Christian 3. Edge 4. Benoit 5. Jericho 6. Benjamin With the bottom 3 called "no chance in fuck". Kane is 1st because that's what they based the Batista push on - the face to face encounter during the battle royale where the crowd went nuts. Christian is second because he gets the "unlikely winner" vote. Edge is third because he's the highest heel in the match and has yet to face Batista 1 on 1. And if he did, I don't remember it.

Kinda...

I don't think Benoit has a chance in the ladder match because they already used Benoit in building Batista up.

I love a great boxing match, but only a great boxing match. A very good boxing match I find boring. It is so repetitive and there are so few options available. I find myself going "TAKE HIM DOWN!"... "CLINCH AND KNEE!"... "HIGH KICK!!" I also think it is an acquired taste, because you really have to get used to the idea that "this is all there is", when it comes to them just punching each other, and there are less obvious interesting things involved. MMA, on the other hand, I can find good in even a bad match, because there is technique all around, and I personally know what its like to pull guard and how hard it is to work from your back.

Yeah, but you use bats in baseball. Which is a totally different facet of the game. Running bases is another thing. Basketball doesn't have the same amount of stages and distinctions.

Simply put, boxing is to MMA, as "playing catch" is to baseball.

The guy made HHH tap on Wrestlemania (which I'm 99 % sure is his first submisssion loss since he jumped to the main event) and kicked out of the Pedigree. I'd say, match-wise, Benoit has looked good as all fuck. In between might be another story. Benoit could have beaten HHH in 7 seconds and it still wouldn't have mattered because THE FOLLOW UP IS THE STORY. This is why HHH can lose any time he wants and it won't matter. This is why he can lose 3 times in a row to Sheldon Benjamin and it won't matter. If there is no follow up, whatever happens becomes meaningless. What do you think will be the follow up here? Yeah, exactly. HHH and Batista are still mad at each other and Benoit is nowhere to be found. Batista maneuvering Benoit into a match to take down HHH is Benoit being a pawn. Batista getting to choose anyone to fight HHH and picking the one guy with a realistic hope of beating him is something else. It's not like Benoit's been outsmarted or is a henchman (guess I should have clarified my definition of "pawn" ). Besides, as far as I understood it, the title wasn't on the line. If we saw Batista going up to Benoit and saying "Chris, I need your help", that would have put Benoit in a power position. Instead Benoit is made weak here because he is simply in the crossfire between the two more important wrestlers. Hey, this sounds really familiar. Where have I heard this before? Hmm. Lemme think... You lost me there. When did he "bring him up"? Who said that? I said it. What was Benoit doing before the main event vs. HHH? In the midcard fighting goofs like Hassan and the placeholder champion Benjamin. So, Benoit was elevated from his midcard position to face HHH. Ever heard of "bringing up the big guns"? Benoit wasn't the big gun. If Benoit was a big gun then HHH would have been scared shitless. The big gun is Batista, Benoits more like a lil pebble being thrown at HHH to annoy him. Do you think that means the big guns are less effective and on a lower level? Yes. Particularly because Benoit wasn't a big gun. Benoit lost a match. A match that, judging by most reports I've read and most posts here, seems to have been quite close. Benoit is getting jerked around and is treated like nothing. Close match or not, at the end of the day, for one day, they decided to bring old Benoit up to the main event and then will send him down to the midcard the next day. He lost it to the guy that's been pushed as the most dominant, most successful, most dangerous guy in the entire buisness for the last four years or so. Yep, even when Benoit was champion HHH was still positioned as being more important than him. Wow, he drew neck and neck with the absolute best (in Kayfaybe terms). He lost, though. Must be a midcarder. Came up from the midcard, lost, is going back down to the midcard. Must be a midcarder. What on Earth would putting Benoit over accomplish? A new superstar? Monday, he was part of a storyline between two other wrestlers, playing up old history (For WWE, last year is exactly that). Just being chosen for this means he is part of the big boys, the few who can actually go the distance with HHH (Kayfabe terms, again). There is a reason Batista didn't pick, say, Rosie. Everyone would have known that HHH would beat a midcarder. Him beating Benoit wasnt a foregone conclusion. Um, yes it was. HHH still has 2 more matches to go, they wouldn't have him lose in his first match. He squeeks by because that's what he ALWAYS DOES. I don't give a shit about kayfabe reasons and whether it makes sense for the storyline, it makes Benoit look BAD. They shouldn't have done this 3 match thing in the first place, who wrote that in? Oh... wait... right.... Thus, he is not a midcarder. Then why is he in the midcard? Had he been humiliated in the ring, that would be different, but apparently that's not what happened. Benoit failed to do his job, what would you call that? Benoit, right now, is way above the midcard, even if he's not in the absolute upper echelon of main eventers. He is in the midcard. How else would you define someone not being positioned in the hotspots of the show? That's an important spot. He can meet and beat any main eventer at any time he can take and hold the title at a moment's notice, and he can still have exciting matches that aren't preordained conclusions with up-and-comers and midcarders, giving a needed rub to them. And he'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, become an important character to the show. He's enhancement talent. Forever and always. This is exactly where you best utilize someone like Benoit. It's where he should be. Benoit could be so much more than that. Benoit has been able to bring out the most in crowds, he always puts the efforts in, he deserves to be made a big name superstar. Yep. I fail to see how this is HHH destroying Benoit. It made Benoit useless and ineffective. Hmm, kinda like his title reign. Destroying a man is giving him close to zero offence, ignoring what little he has, and beating him easily with close to zero drama. This is not, at all, what happened on SurSer. He got eliminated after beating up the whole opposing team by himself. Did he beat the whole opposing team by himself? After Benoit was eliminated they all went back to normal. Are you getting this yet? I've made the point a dozen times already. Destroying a man is making him worthless. At that point, Orton was still pretty much the golden boy, and then it was a toss-up between who went first of Benoit and Jericho. For the finish to be Orton vs Edge+HHH, the other two (I'm igoring Maven for obvious reasons), both Chrises had to go. Personally, I think Benoit looked stronger than Jericho that night. Wait. Your point is "Benoit looked stronger than Jericho"? I've wasted my time.

If you send me the money, you'd have a .0005% chance of getting some of it back. MikeSCasino doesn't offer that.

However, storyline wise, pretty much the only guy to consistently beat HHH throughout this year has been Benoit. Realistically, none of those wins mattered and didn't help Benoit out a single bit. Despite lots of chances, HHH hasn't beaten him in one whole year. He would be the ideal guy to wear HH down, maybe put a chink in his psyhcological armor. I am not arguing with the storyline logic of it, I am arguing with the "lets fuck over Benoit" side of it. Though it is convenient that the storyline ended up with HHH getting his win back. And he's not a "pawn". You just said he'd be "the ideal guy to wear HHH down". Not take the title from HHH, but to "wear him down". Benoits purpose was to "wear him down". Right, that's not being a pawn. Batista got to choose any man on RAW to have a shot on HHH, and he picked Benoit. In fact, sold correctly (which I will venture to say it proably wasn't), that means Batista thinks Benoit is the best man for the job - i.e. beating HHH. Doesn't scream 'midcard' to me. He brought Benoit "up" to face HHH. Which nicely singles out that Benoit was "down". And Benoit failed. That screams midcard. Plus, storyline wise, why wouldn't Benoit be picked last since that is the date closest to WM? Wouldn't you put the best guy at the end, since it would be the toughest challenge? And just by the way, HHH did in no way, shape or form destroy Benoit at SurSer. Benoit pretty much beat down HHH's whole team by himself, before falling to numbers and what may be the only sure-fire finisher left in the federation (next to the Tombstone). In fact, HHH didn't even pin him. Wasn't Benoit eliminated first on the face side? Riiight.

Of course, it has to be the black man who eats all the pork. Really, an unfair advantage.

"Who's not a vegetarian?" "I am" Oh jesus.

I actually enjoyed the match for the most part, until about the finish. It was rather random and there wasn't much form to it, but in terms of performance, both guys worked really hard - HHH sold well for the most part and they had some fun spots. Benoit has already established his ability to perform well, and the fans have already established that they appreciate his hard work. He still hasn't established being a Superstar, and the fans don't see him as one. He doesn't get a superstar pop, he gets a respectful/we like you pop. He doesn't look like a superstar when he's being used as a pawn in HHH and Batistas game. And he certainly doesn't look effective when HHH is PERFECTLY FINE 20 minutes later.

POLICE ESCORT! ROBFATHER!!

"It's ok, we'll take em" ROBFATHER!