The Old School questions thread

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

How did Bob Holly replace Avatar during the 1995 Survivor Series?

Real reason? He complained that he should be on the card over Al Snow because he'd been with the company longer.

[CanadianChris 0]

How did Bob Holly replace Avatar during the 1995 Survivor Series?

Real reason? He complained that he should be on the card over Al Snow because he'd been with the company longer.

Oh, so Holly was always like that.

[Boxer 0]

After posting something in another thread about Shawn Michaels and The Rock, what was the orignal reason for the heat between the two? I believe it has something to do with HHH?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

After posting something in another thread about Shawn Michaels and The Rock, what was the original reason for the heat between the two? I believe it has something to do with HHH?

The HHH-related heat between Rock and Shawn basically stems from the time when Rock and Hunter were being built up to eventually take the top spot, with Shawn backing Hunter and trying to stop Rock from getting that position. There's the often told story from that time period, and this is around 1997, when Bret was booked to beat Rock clean via sharpshooter on Raw. Bret felt Rock was the future and didn't think he should beat him clean and got the finish changed to Rock winning via disqualification. This pissed off Shawn for a couple of reasons, one of them being that he was the one who pushed for Bret to win clean, and he wasn't doing it to build Bret up by any means. Rock appreciated what Bret did for him, which is why he always speaks highly of him. Rock is also aware of who came up with that finish and why.

 

[Boxer 0]

Why did Ahmed Johnson join the Nation again? Also, why was he kicked out of the Nation so soon? Did it bomb or something? Heel Ahmed looked like one scary dude.

 

Steve Austin vs. Ahmed Johnson could've worked as a mid-card feud for the IC title in my opinion.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Why did Ahmed Johnson join the Nation again? Also, why was he kicked out of the Nation so soon? Did it bomb or something? Heel Ahmed looked like one scary dude.

 

Steve Austin vs. Ahmed Johnson could've worked as a mid-card feud for the IC title in my opinion.

Not sure why Ahmed joined the Nation, but he got kicked up because he injured himself, something he did quite a lot, and needed time off.

 

Austin/Ahmed, I think, was a match floated for One Night Only or some PPV, before Austin went down with his neck injury. Once Austin hurt his neck, though, no way would they have risked putting Austin in the ring with Ahmed.

[Timmy8271 0]

Didn't they have a match on the final raw before Survivor Series 97?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Didn't they have a match on the final raw before Survivor Series 97?

Final Raw before Survivor Series '97 had Kane beating Ahmed.

 

I checked Cawthon's site, and see no Austin/Ahmed match at all that year. After Austin's neck injury, for a while they'd tease Austin against someone for most of a show before getting out of it somehow, so that might have happened, but I don't see them actually having a match.

 

 

[King Kamala 0]

RE: Ahmed joining The NOD, I think he decided that if you can't beat them, join them. Kind of silly way to end to what had been a relatively intense year long feud.

[Timmy8271 0]

Didn't they have a match on the final raw before Survivor Series 97?

Final Raw before Survivor Series '97 had Kane beating Ahmed.

 

I checked Cawthon's site, and see no Austin/Ahmed match at all that year. After Austin's neck injury, for a while they'd tease Austin against someone for most of a show before getting out of it somehow, so that might have happened, but I don't see them actually having a match.

 

I just watched this show. Austin came out to start the show and talk shit with Vince about Owen. Ahmed came out because Austin cost him a match vs Owen. Ahmed challenged him and Austin accepted. I guess it never happened and Kane came out. Seems like typical Attitude booking to me.

[Boxer 0]

My mind is cloudy during this period, but wa Ahmed acting like a heel feuding with Austin? Was the crowd mixed since Ahmed was also a face? Or was it 100% PURE AUSTIN 3:16 crowds?

[Timmy8271 0]

When Ahmed came out, he got little heat. It was mostly Austin crowds. It wasn't quite 98/99 crowds but it was close.

[alfdogg 0]

While we're discussing Ahmed:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f7_tvBdfjU

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Was there any reason Ric Flair had Bobby Heenan and Perfect with him in the 92? Why would the best talker in wrestling history need two managers?

 

The only reason I could think of was to given the new heel more heel heat.

[alfdogg 0]

I don't think both guys were ever at ringside with him at the same time. As far as I know, it was just the two interview segments at Rumble '92 and WM8. Heenan started with him, then Perfect took over at Survivor Series.

[Boxer 0]

On a Raw in 1998? I believe, Dustin Runnels came out and said he couldn't do this anymore, etc...... about the Goldust gimmick. If I remember this, he burned the Goldust uniform and then he was himself for a few months.

 

So basically, where did this go? How did it end? Why did he return back to Goldust by 99? Was he a heel?

 

It's one of those things I basically can't remember.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

On a Raw in 1998? I believe, Dustin Runnels came out and said he couldn't do this anymore, etc...... about the Goldust gimmick. If I remember this, he burned the Goldust uniform and then he was himself for a few months.

 

So basically, where did this go? How did it end? Why did he return back to Goldust by 99? Was he a heel?

 

It's one of those things I basically can't remember.

The gimmick change didn't last long, because Dustin didn't get over as Dustin Runnels, and he was back to Goldust after only a couple of months. Dustin Runnels was a heel, but when he reverted to Goldust he turned face on Val Venis, who I think was officially a heel but was getting cheered because of the gimmick.

[Boxer 0]

So when Hogan did his odd return to the WWE during 2002, 2003 and 2005 and had one ore two Raw matches, did he draw? Was there a ratings spike for Hogan matches?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

So when Hogan did his odd return to the WWE during 2002, 2003 and 2005 and had one ore two Raw matches, did he draw? Was there a ratings spike for Hogan matches?

I don't know about 2003 and 2005, but Hogan's run in 2002, at least as Unified champion, was a disaster. Ratings sank by about a full point on both shows.

[Diamonddust 0]

Was there any reason Ric Flair had Bobby Heenan and Perfect with him in the 92? Why would the best talker in wrestling history need two managers?

 

The only reason I could think of was to given the new heel more heel heat.

 

Because he's Ric Flair... WHOOO!!!

 

Seriously, though, putting him with Heenan just made sense to me. Heenan always had a variety of heels that he managed, but Flair was really the perfect type of wrestler to pair with Bobby. I'm pretty sure Heenan's managing of Nick Bockwinkel, who Flair borrowed a lot from in terms of the suave and sophisticated heel champion, helped quite a bit.

 

The same goes for Mr. Perfect. He had the injury problems, and this was a way to keep him in the spotlight and generate even more heel heat.

[JHawk 0]

On a Raw in 1998? I believe, Dustin Runnels came out and said he couldn't do this anymore, etc...... about the Goldust gimmick. If I remember this, he burned the Goldust uniform and then he was himself for a few months.

 

So basically, where did this go? How did it end? Why did he return back to Goldust by 99? Was he a heel?

 

It's one of those things I basically can't remember.

The gimmick change didn't last long, because Dustin didn't get over as Dustin Runnels, and he was back to Goldust after only a couple of months. Dustin Runnels was a heel, but when he reverted to Goldust he turned face on Val Venis, who I think was officially a heel but was getting cheered because of the gimmick.

Dustin, as himself, was doing a born again Christian gimmick where he actually tried to convince people to change the channel because of the sexual innuendo and needless violence. Seriously.

 

Eventually, he went out in the crowd with signs saying "He is coming back," much like Christian doomsayers will do at whatever rally they're attending.

 

Val mocked him one week, going through the crowd with a sign saying "I have come" before unleashing the bombshell...he was sleeping with Terri, still Dustin's real-life wife at the time. (No explanation was ever given as to why Dustin was supposed to care considering he himself had kicked her to the curb less than a year ago.) So one night when Val was wrestling, you hear "I told you he was coming back" over the PA before the Goldust Titantron hit.

[alfdogg 0]

This is something I've always wondered whenever I remember Goldberg's WWE run...how do you think a Goldberg/Undertaker feud would have played out?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Either Undertaker would have gotten the win or we would've had the crappy DQ finish because neither man would have wanted to job.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I always thought a Goldberg/Undertaker tag team, even if just a one shot deal on a PPV, would've drawn big money.

 

As far as a feud, I think Goldberg would've been smart enough to play politics and job to Undertaker, maybe after UT put him over once. I think it could have been like the HBK/Angle feud where they traded wins, but there wasn't a definite blow-off.

[Boxer 0]

Exactly how did John Cena turn face? I know he went from feuding with Brock Lesnar and then suddenly he's on Team Angle for Survivor Series. I also remember he was feuding with Eddie earlier before that still as a heel so what happened to turn him face?

[Guest]

Attacked by Team Lesnar.

 

The real reason they turned him in case you don't know is (you're gonna laugh) crowd reaction.

[Boxer 0]

How did Marty Janetty turn heel in early 1996? I can remember him as a face when 1995 ended, then all of a sudden he's a heel. He was pretty over in terms of a mid carder all those years, so what did he do to turn heel?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Why did Ahmed Johnson join the Nation again? Also, why was he kicked out of the Nation so soon? Did it bomb or something? Heel Ahmed looked like one scary dude.

 

He turned heel on The Undertaker on RAW and joined the Nation. In the weeks leading up to the heel turn, much was made of his gang roots and how he needed a gang situation to stay focused, and that the Nation certainly was a gang. At In Your House: A Cold Day In Hell, he fought all three Nation members (Faarooq, Savio, Crush) in a gauntlet match and was unable to win, causing the announcers to speculate he might have a new respect for Faarooq. Okay, so you might not have liked it, but at least WWE tried explaining a heel turn for a change. He was supposed to get the title shot against the Undertaker at IIRC either Canadian Stampede or King of The Ring, but got injured again so he was replaced.

[Epic Reine 0]

In the build up to Faarooq/Taker at KOTR '97, the fued kept focusing on a black man never winning the world title which is something Ahmed questioned too so that was the start of a heel Ahmed being teased. Taker beat Faarooq at the KOTR but Taker kept attacking him because Paul Bearer (who was blackmailing Taker at the time with his "secret" that turned out to be Kane) told him too. Ahmed came down and told him to back off and that he suffered enough but Taker didn't stop and Ahmed attacked him. The next night on Raw, Ahmed attacked Taker after the main event and joined the Nation and gave a promo next week where he said he basically joined the Nation to finally get some respect and a title shot and most importantly, become the first black WWF champ. So sad I remember all that.

[alfdogg 0]

A question, since the WM16 main event is being discussed in the What If thread...what was the reason for HHH winning the belt back at Judgment Day, if Rock was just going to get it right back the next month?