The Old School questions thread

[Boxer 0]

1. Why were Owen Hart and The British Bulldog feuding with Fake Diesel and Fake Razor and then Mankind and Vader in late 96-early 97 as Tag Team Champions? Did the WWF have no face tag teams at that time? So were Owen and Bulldog tweeners in those storylines? It was rare in those days for heels to feud with heels. If I am correct, I don't think they faced a face tag team until they lost the titles to Austin/HBK on Raw in May of 97.

 

2. Was Sid a heel or face from November 1996-March 1997. I really can't tell from the way they booked him. Attacking Pete Lotherio, and facing Shawn in his hometown, Bret, and Taker, all made the fans cheer the other guy instead of Sid. So perhaps he was a tweener?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

2. Was Sid a heel or face from November 1996-March 1997. I really can't tell from the way they booked him. Attacking Pete Lotherio, and facing Shawn in his hometown, Bret, and Taker, all made the fans cheer the other guy instead of Sid. So perhaps he was a tweener?

 

A heel who got face pops.

[JHawk 0]

1. Why were Owen Hart and The British Bulldog feuding with Fake Diesel and Fake Razor and then Mankind and Vader in late 96-early 97 as Tag Team Champions? Did the WWF have no face tag teams at that time? So were Owen and Bulldog tweeners in those storylines? It was rare in those days for heels to feud with heels. If I am correct, I don't think they faced a face tag team until they lost the titles to Austin/HBK on Raw in May of 97.

 

There was Doug Furnas and Phil Lafon, but only the smarks cared about them despite the matches between them being consistently awesome.

 

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Good call. Why didn't they ever get over? The smarks ate em up, but the only thing I ever remember them doing was turning heel after Furnas' car accident. Still, with that much talent, they could, would, and should have gotten over, right?

[Boxer 0]

Good call. Why didn't they ever get over? The smarks ate em up, but the only thing I ever remember them doing was turning heel after Furnas' car accident. Still, with that much talent, they could, would, and should have gotten over, right?

 

So until Montreal happened, were they going to join the Hart Foundation? Since they joined Team Canada for their match at Survivor Series, I was fully expecting 2 new Hart Foundation Members.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

1. Why were Owen Hart and The British Bulldog feuding with Fake Diesel and Fake Razor and then Mankind and Vader in late 96-early 97 as Tag Team Champions? Did the WWF have no face tag teams at that time? So were Owen and Bulldog tweeners in those storylines? It was rare in those days for heels to feud with heels. If I am correct, I don't think they faced a face tag team until they lost the titles to Austin/HBK on Raw in May of 97.

 

There was Doug Furnas and Phil Lafon, but only the smarks cared about them despite the matches between them being consistently awesome.

 

As a mark I loved Furnas and LaFon. I remember being in awe in that Survivor Series 1996 match when LaFon was giving people reverse suplexes off the top rope and Furnas nearly crippled Owen Hart with a devastating release German suplex where Owen landed right on his head.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I don't think the plan was ever for Furnas and Lafon to become full members of the Hart Foundation. They were basically booked as associates of them to do the Canada vs USA thing at Survivor Series. Kind of silly, since only one member of that team was actually Canadian.

 

It's too bad WWF didn't do more with that tag team...they really were ahead of most other tag teams in the US at the time.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Good call. Why didn't they ever get over? The smarks ate em up, but the only thing I ever remember them doing was turning heel after Furnas' car accident. Still, with that much talent, they could, would, and should have gotten over, right?

They had no personality to speak of and lacked the ability to connect with a North American crowd. They were a good tag team at the time, great by WWE standards, but they were also physically broken down from working in Japan for so many years. They weren't able to work hard enough for long enough for their in-ring ability to overcome their lack of intangibles.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

What was supposed to be the follow-up to HBK costing Rock his title match against HHH on the first Smackdown in August 1999?

 

I'd like to know this too.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What was supposed to be the follow-up to HBK costing Rock his title match against HHH on the first Smackdown in August 1999?

From what I remember, nothing. It was done to start Smackdown off with a big angle.

[Boxer 0]

2. Was Sid a heel or face from November 1996-March 1997. I really can't tell from the way they booked him. Attacking Pete Lotherio, and facing Shawn in his hometown, Bret, and Taker, all made the fans cheer the other guy instead of Sid. So perhaps he was a tweener?

 

A heel who got face pops.

 

So then, was Shawn a heel after Survivor Series 96 or did he just play an angrier face? Because he was a bitter, BITTER man during that period of after Survivor Series until the Royal Rumble.

 

So if Shawn was a heel, why go back to face?

 

From Bret's return until both Bret and Shawn turned heel, it was a little confusing for your WWF fan there. Before they both turned heel, some days Bret acted like a heel, some days Shawn acted like a heel, hell, some days, Sid, Taker, and Austin all acted like heels even though they were faces.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Shawn was a face, as was Bret. Bret was doing a slow build towards the eventual heel turn at the time. I think they were simply trying more complicated characters at the time.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Shawn was a face, as was Bret. Bret was doing a slow build towards the eventual heel turn at the time. I think they were simply trying more complicated characters at the time.

 

It was when shades of gray booking was all the rage. Everyone was playing a tweener at that time. Even Sid didn't go full blown heel until right before Royal Rumble.

[Boxer 0]

Now around this same time, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this happened.

 

Apparently Bulldog and Austin were getting into it with cheap attacks coming from Austin. It looked like Bulldog was gonna turn face and feud with Austin, but the storyline just stopped. Also, I remember on Raw showing footage from one of their tours and Bret saving Bulldog from Sid or something like that only for Sid to powerbomb Bret. Why did Bret come out and save Bulldog? All these shades of grey just makes everything confusing to me.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I was just thinking about that the other day. I wouldn't quite consider it as hinting at the Hart reunion, as Bret was still a face, and it was about a 3 month difference between Bret saving Bulldog and his heel turn.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Bret had a great slow build to being heel. He did an interview right before his Its Time match with Sid where he basically was getting jealous of HBK so I'm assuming had the planned WM 13 match happened, it would have been face Michaels Vs. heel Bret. My question is though was Bret's heel run planned already when he made his comeback to the WWF in late 96?

 

 

What was supposed to be the follow-up to HBK costing Rock his title match against HHH on the first Smackdown in August 1999?

 

I'm assuming it was to set-up a Rock / Michaels feud later down the road seeing how The Rock got in HBK's face backstage about it at Judgment Day 2000.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Bret had a great slow build to being heel. He did an interview right before his Its Time match with Sid where he basically was getting jealous of HBK so I'm assuming had the planned WM 13 match happened, it would have been face Michaels Vs. heel Bret. My question is though was Bret's heel run planned already when he made his comeback to the WWF in late 96?

 

I don't think they planned to turn Bret until well into the Austin feud. He was supposed to return as the triumphant babyface and win the title shortly into his run. However, McMahon quickly realized that the company had changed and so had the crowds. The white bread babyface didn't really work anymore and the decision was made to do the double turn with Austin.

 

I'm assuming it was to set-up a Rock / Michaels feud later down the road seeing how The Rock got in HBK's face backstage about it at Judgment Day 2000.

 

It was already said earlier, but I don't think that there was any plan going forward. It seemed like they were going to do a DX reunion but it was probably just an angle to kick off Smackdown. As for a potential program between the two? Highly unlikely. Michaels had no plans to return at this time and we all know the Rock's feeling on working with HBK. Never would have happened.

[Jericholic82 0]

Bret had a great slow build to being heel. He did an interview right before his Its Time match with Sid where he basically was getting jealous of HBK so I'm assuming had the planned WM 13 match happened, it would have been face Michaels Vs. heel Bret. My question is though was Bret's heel run planned already when he made his comeback to the WWF in late 96?

 

I don't think they planned to turn Bret until well into the Austin feud. He was supposed to return as the triumphant babyface and win the title shortly into his run. However, McMahon quickly realized that the company had changed and so had the crowds. The white bread babyface didn't really work anymore and the decision was made to do the double turn with Austin.

 

I'm assuming it was to set-up a Rock / Michaels feud later down the road seeing how The Rock got in HBK's face backstage about it at Judgment Day 2000.

 

It was already said earlier, but I don't think that there was any plan going forward. It seemed like they were going to do a DX reunion but it was probably just an angle to kick off Smackdown. As for a potential program between the two? Highly unlikely. Michaels had no plans to return at this time and we all know the Rock's feeling on working with HBK. Never would have happened.

It looked like they were reforming a dx type stable with shane mcmahon and chyna since they celebrated together fater the match, then Shawn wasnt seen again untill he was announced as the special ref for the iron man match

 

talk about shades of grey, during his retirement, Shawn came back as a face, turned heel as the commisoner, turned back face by superkicking Vince about a month after his heel turn, turned heel apparantly by kicking rock, came back as an apprant face for the iron man, returned as a heel with the nWo in 2002, then turned face after the angle was dropped and the fued with hhh began

 

then when he came back to the ring he turned heel for a month to face hogan, before reverting back to face

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

He was the commissioner, but he made only like 2 appearances after his Coporation run till the iron man.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

What was the plan for HHH and the IC title in the fall of 1998? Would he have dropped it to Shamrock anyway?

[Boxer 0]

What was the plan for HHH and the IC title in the fall of 1998? Would he have dropped it to Shamrock anyway?

 

I read somewhere the plan was for HHH to drop the IC title to Henry when they did the Chyna angle. It's funny how the original plan was to shoot HHH to superstardom after the ladder match, only to have The Rock come out as the bigger star between the two at that time.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

What was the plan for HHH and the IC title in the fall of 1998? Would he have dropped it to Shamrock anyway?

 

I read somewhere the plan was for HHH to drop the IC title to Henry when they did the Chyna angle. It's funny how the original plan was to shoot HHH to superstardom after the ladder match, only to have The Rock come out as the bigger star between the two at that time.

 

 

To be fair, HHH was an absolute monster babyface in the summer of 1998 and beating the Rock at Summerslam was his last step to becoming arguably the no. 2 face in the company behind Steve Austin. That knee injury really set him back at the worst possible time and the Rock seized the opportunity.

 

For all the bitching over the years about HHH protecting his spot, he had to overcome a lot of start and stop pushes over the years. The fact that he made it to where he is a testament to his ability and perseverance.

[Boxer 0]

Did the Nation and Hart Foundation ever settle their feud that lasted for about 2-3 weeks on Raw in 1997? If my memory serves me correctly, the storyline just disappeared in place of Hart vs. Michaels at Survivor Series. The reason why I ask this, is in faykabe, if it never got settled and the Nation still thought the Hart Foundation vandalised their locker room, so then why was Owen Hart allowed to join the Nation?

[Aero 0]

Did the Nation and Hart Foundation ever settle their feud that lasted for about 2-3 weeks on Raw in 1997? If my memory serves me correctly, the storyline just disappeared in place of Hart vs. Michaels at Survivor Series. The reason why I ask this, is in faykabe, if it never got settled and the Nation still thought the Hart Foundation vandalised their locker room, so then why was Owen Hart allowed to join the Nation?

 

It was never properly resolved, and it was basically dropped when the Hart Foundation disappeared post-Survivor Series. On a random note, I remember recorded fan predictions about the Bret-HBK match either before or on the PPV with one person predicting an HBK win based on DX and the Nation backing him. Besides that, the Nation were also gunning for Austin since he cost Faarooq the IC Title at Badd Blood. With no Harts left, a feud with Austin was only logical after Survivor Series.

 

As for Owen joining the Nation in 1998, I'm sure the real reason would be that the writing team didn't care to remember past history, but you could argue that with Rock leading the Nation instead of Faarooq, Owen would be able to join.

 

[Epic Reine 0]

Did the Nation ever have a formal break-up? All I remember is Rock shooting to superstardom while Owen Hart teamed with Dan Severn to fued with Ken Shamrock and D'Lo and Mark Henry just stayed as a tag team. I think they may have just gone their seperate ways over time.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

After reading how Crush's history with Demolition was ignored when he re-debuted as Kona Crush had me wondering, who was the first wrestler to have his previous gimmick(s) kayfabed into the current gimmick he had?

 

I've seen footage of promos featuring The Hulkster early on in his return where his heel persona was brought up, but that probably was because he came back still using the name "Hulk Hogan" but on the flip side, when The Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase debuted his late 70s run was ignored. Ditto with "The Dragon" who was never called "Ricky Steamboat" despite being a huge fan favorite back in the early days of the "Wrestlemania Era."

 

Course politics of burying someone were probably in play with the Dragon/Steamboat issue but it does seem now that even when a guy will make a complete transformation, like Big Daddy V, his past gimmicks follow him around, even if they should be forgotten.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Did the Nation ever have a formal break-up? All I remember is Rock shooting to superstardom while Owen Hart teamed with Dan Severn to fued with Ken Shamrock and D'Lo and Mark Henry just stayed as a tag team. I think they may have just gone their seperate ways over time.

 

I believe D'Lo and Henry turned on Rocky, in effect turning him into a de facto face for about a couple of months before turning heel at Survivor Series.

 

Interestingly enough, Mark Henry won the "blow off" at Judgment Day that October. Then again, this was all done under Vince Russo's booking so there you go.

 

Henry and D'Lo would stick together for a while (Henry's date with Chyna for example) but the Nation gimmick was dropped as soon as Rocky was kicked out.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Why wasn't Undertaker / Page an actual match at KOTR 2001?

[Boxer 0]

August 12 1999. After re-watching the Confidential DVD piece of the British Bulldog, there's a clip on an interview he did on that date. I remember it never aired because there was some controversy behind it.

 

Anyone remember this? Also what he said and why it never got shown?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

August 12 1999. After re-watching the Confidential DVD piece of the British Bulldog, there's a clip on an interview he did on that date. I remember it never aired because there was some controversy behind it.

 

Anyone remember this? Also what he said and why it never got shown?

It was to do with Montreal. When WWF signed Bulldog back, they filmed an interview with him an Diana and it was basically going to consist of them talking about Montreal with Bulldog attacking Bret's position. I think at the time Bulldog was on bad terms with Bret and the WWF were more than happy to use it to go after Bret. I don't know why it never got shown, but I think the Owen Hart lawsuit might have had something to do with it.