The Old School questions thread

[Chui]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what's with the Dusty finish in the Road Warriors/Anderson & Blanchard match at Starrcade '87? I was just watching it on the Starrcade DVD, and it looked like the match was custom made for the Warriors to win the belts in their hometown.

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what's with the Dusty finish in the Road Warriors/Anderson & Blanchard match at Starrcade '87? I was just watching it on the Starrcade DVD, and it looked like the match was custom made for the Warriors to win the belts in their hometown.

Dusty was into the idea of putting heat on the heels. I think he was so into it that he thought doing it to the Roadies in their hometown would put the heat of all heat on the Horseman and simply didn't realize the heat would go on the promotion. That finish killed Chicago for the NWA and is symptomatic of what killed the NWA.

[TMC1982]

Does anybody know exactly why there's so much animosity between the two parties now a days? I know that Flair said on his WWE DVD that his fall out with Ole really began when he returned to WCW after spending about two and a half years in WWF/E. Ole, who at the time, was doing the booking (and I think, had taken over for Bill Watts after he left WCW) said the Flair's face, that he didn't believed that he no longer had much value to WCW (having just jobbed to Curt Hening on "Monday Night RAW"). Flair took great offense to that since ever since he abruptly left WCW (without ever really dropping the World Title in the ring), crowds at every show were chanting "We want Flair!"

 

And then, I stumbled across this clip from a shoot interview with Ole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pZX0PE0RqE

 

Ole essentially, considers the idea of Flair taking the NWA title with him to WWF's TV shows a joke since by 1991, the NWA was pretty much, an "in-name only" type of organization.

 

Honestly, I think that a large portion of Ole's bitterness stems from his hatred of Vince McMahon's successful national expansion. This pretty much made the regional wrestling promotion model (and the NWA by extension of this) obsolute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swVxYHUsQ5g

[Dobbs 3K]

Ole would have gone national if he could have, so that's probably where some of the bitterness toward Vince comes from.

[HarleyQuinn]

Question: Did the WWF have a working relationship with Japan during 1999?

 

I was looking through old events and this popped out at me: March 29th, 1999 - Malia Hosaka defeated Brandi Alexander. Note that Shotgun and Super Astros were taped after and Raw aired live. Was the WWF looking at bringing in female workers at this time period?

[EVIL~! alkeiper]

Question: Did the WWF have a working relationship with Japan during 1999?

 

I was looking through old events and this popped out at me: March 29th, 1999 - Malia Hosaka defeated Brandi Alexander. Note that Shotgun and Super Astros were taped after and Raw aired live. Was the WWF looking at bringing in female workers at this time period?

I was at that show!!

[BruteSquad_BRODY]

That number is disappointing. Is that counting Sting clearing the ring, or just nWo all in the ring at the end?

 

They had a lot of Blowjob interviews by the NWO end Nitros

[Dobbs 3K]

Question: Did the WWF have a working relationship with Japan during 1999?

 

I was looking through old events and this popped out at me: March 29th, 1999 - Malia Hosaka defeated Brandi Alexander. Note that Shotgun and Super Astros were taped after and Raw aired live. Was the WWF looking at bringing in female workers at this time period?

 

I'm not sure if you're if you're implying Hosaka was from Japan. Pretty sure she's from Hawaii. WWF may still have had some thing going with Michinoku Pro at that point, but I doubt it. Anyway, that wouldn't have included any women.

 

As far as female workers, they already had the Women's Title at that point, so I'm guessing they were looking at bringing in more women.

[Aero]

In the spring of 98, Terry Funk & Scorpio had been teaming up, and they were even the last team eliminated from the tag team Royal Rumble on Raw in June. Then within a few weeks, they were teaming Scorpio with Faarooq, and at Fully Loaded, they fought against Funk & Bradshaw. Now, this was during the time period were the WWF just seemed to add random matches to the PPVs to fill up time, so I know there wasn't really any particular feud going into that match, other than the story that Bradshaw ended up turning on Funk post-match. But my question is, why did Faarooq replace Funk?

[JHawk]

In the spring of 98, Terry Funk & Scorpio had been teaming up, and they were even the last team eliminated from the tag team Royal Rumble on Raw in June. Then within a few weeks, they were teaming Scorpio with Faarooq, and at Fully Loaded, they fought against Funk & Bradshaw. Now, this was during the time period were the WWF just seemed to add random matches to the PPVs to fill up time, so I know there wasn't really any particular feud going into that match, other than the story that Bradshaw ended up turning on Funk post-match. But my question is, why did Faarooq replace Funk?

Because Vince Russo didn't care about continuity?

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS!]

In the spring of 98, Terry Funk & Scorpio had been teaming up, and they were even the last team eliminated from the tag team Royal Rumble on Raw in June. Then within a few weeks, they were teaming Scorpio with Faarooq, and at Fully Loaded, they fought against Funk & Bradshaw. Now, this was during the time period were the WWF just seemed to add random matches to the PPVs to fill up time, so I know there wasn't really any particular feud going into that match, other than the story that Bradshaw ended up turning on Funk post-match. But my question is, why did Faarooq replace Funk?

Because Vince Russo didn't care about continuity?

 

They did acknowledge that Scorp and Funk were former partners, even with them shaking hands or bumping fists or something at the Fully Loaded show, with the announcers pointing it out as well. I can't remember if there was an explanation or an angle to explain why they branched off into different tandems. Maybe they needed to stay with their kind.

[Dobbs 3K]

Weren't they already kind of fazing Terry Funk out by that point? I don't think he was in the promotion much longer after the Bradshaw turn.

 

I'm guessing they figured Funk/Bradshaw and Scorpio/Faarooq were just more "logical" as tag teams, even though both were just kind of temporary things to give the guys involved something to do. Bradshaw in particular really was aimless until the Acolytes thing started. Remember when he was even teaming with Taka Michinoku for a while?

[BruteSquad_BRODY]

In the spring of 98, Terry Funk & Scorpio had been teaming up, and they were even the last team eliminated from the tag team Royal Rumble on Raw in June. Then within a few weeks, they were teaming Scorpio with Faarooq, and at Fully Loaded, they fought against Funk & Bradshaw. Now, this was during the time period were the WWF just seemed to add random matches to the PPVs to fill up time, so I know there wasn't really any particular feud going into that match, other than the story that Bradshaw ended up turning on Funk post-match. But my question is, why did Faarooq replace Funk?

 

Kayfabe wise Funk and Bradshaw were getting along great, then right before a Raw (PPV?) match Funk announced he was quitting - something he hadn't even yet told Bradshaw who looked shocked/pissed. Thus Bradshaw turned on him during/after the match .....

 

His Taka tag run was so people would see BRADSHAW BIG kiaenti little BRADSHAW PUSH kianeti job

[strummer]

Kayfabe wise Funk and Bradshaw were getting along great, then right before a Raw (PPV?) match Funk announced he was quitting - something he hadn't even yet told Bradshaw who looked shocked/pissed. Thus Bradshaw turned on him during/after the match .....

 

actually the interview where Funk "retired" was the pre match interview at Fully Loaded. If you didn't get Shotgun in your market at the time (which I didn't) you were wondering what was going on as none of these guys were really featured on RAW at the time

[Beto Chavez]

On the Ultimate Hulk Hogan Anthology, Hogan says that Andre didn't like him until Hogan "got into a situation in Japan". Afterwards, Andre respected and like him. What was the situation?

 

and

 

When did Sting switch from the Crow theme to Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"?

 

[BruteSquad_BRODY]

On the Ultimate Hulk Hogan Anthology, Hogan says that Andre didn't like him until Hogan "got into a situation in Japan". Afterwards, Andre respected and like him. What was the situation?

 

I believe Hogan ha a story he tells about Fujinami relating to this

 

[CanadianChris]

On the Ultimate Hulk Hogan Anthology, Hogan says that Andre didn't like him until Hogan "got into a situation in Japan". Afterwards, Andre respected and like him. What was the situation?

 

I believe Hogan ha a story he tells about Fujinami relating to this

You mean the one where Hogan claimed he shot on Fujinami? That was hilarious. No one rewrites history quite like the Hulkster.

[daileyxplanet]

I was just thinking...

 

Was the Andy Kaufman / Jerry Lawler feud being mainstreamed the first instance of exposing pro-wrestling as pre-determined?

[EVIL~! alkeiper]

I was just thinking...

 

Was the Andy Kaufman / Jerry Lawler feud being mainstreamed the first instance of exposing pro-wrestling as pre-determined?

No, for two reasons. One, it wasn't exposing at all. Only when Bob Zmuda's book on Andy Kaufman came out did anyone admit to it being fixed, and it had quite a few people guessing up until then. Second, wrestling has been "exposed" all the way back in the 1920s or '30s.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Did Rock ever use "It doesn't matter" before the Billy Gunn promo?

[bob_barron]

I was just thinking...

 

Was the Andy Kaufman / Jerry Lawler feud being mainstreamed the first instance of exposing pro-wrestling as pre-determined?

No, for two reasons. One, it wasn't exposing at all. Only when Bob Zmuda's book on Andy Kaufman came out did anyone admit to it being fixed, and it had quite a few people guessing up until then. Second, wrestling has been "exposed" all the way back in the 1920s or '30s.

 

That's not true. It was admitted to being a work in a 1995 documentary on Andy Kaufman.

[EVIL~! alkeiper]

I was just thinking...

 

Was the Andy Kaufman / Jerry Lawler feud being mainstreamed the first instance of exposing pro-wrestling as pre-determined?

No, for two reasons. One, it wasn't exposing at all. Only when Bob Zmuda's book on Andy Kaufman came out did anyone admit to it being fixed, and it had quite a few people guessing up until then. Second, wrestling has been "exposed" all the way back in the 1920s or '30s.

 

That's not true. It was admitted to being a work in a 1995 documentary on Andy Kaufman.

I'll grant that. The original point basically stands, being that it was kept under wraps for 13 years.

[daileyxplanet]

o

[Damaramu]

Ole would have gone national if he could have, so that's probably where some of the bitterness toward Vince comes from.

 

 

That's what brings me to my question.

 

Why so much bitterness towards Vince for going national and stealing up talent?

 

It's not like Jim Crockett wasn't doing the exact same thing, he just operated (for a time) within the confines of the NWA. I mean he brought all the talent to his promotions and had a death-grip on the NWA title. I mean I watch WWE 24/7. If you watch those studio shows all of the top regional stars (that hadn't gone to WWF) were on Crockett's TV shows! And his titles had more prestige than any other local territories titles.

And he started buying up promotions to go national too!

And when he started doing stuff like Starrcade, didn't that really poke a huge hole in the territory system and really mess it up for a lot of regional fans? Becuase now they see all the top stars on Starrcade and the regional feel of pro-wrestling is gone with that show too. It wasn't just the WWF that was projecting that national image and forgetting about the territory system. Right?

 

So why does everyone these days act like Vince was such a scumbag? Crockett did it too, just within the confines of the NWA. He was still an NWA member but he had all the top talent and the NWA title.

 

 

Also another question. The Television and US title that Crockett was promoting on TV with his champions, those weren't national titles were they? What I'm saying is they used to be regional titles of Crockett's promotion, but as JCP became national then so did they. Right?

[Diamonddust]

Ole would have gone national if he could have, so that's probably where some of the bitterness toward Vince comes from.

 

 

That's what brings me to my question.

 

Why so much bitterness towards Vince for going national and stealing up talent?

 

It's not like Jim Crockett wasn't doing the exact same thing, he just operated (for a time) within the confines of the NWA. I mean he brought all the talent to his promotions and had a death-grip on the NWA title. I mean I watch WWE 24/7. If you watch those studio shows all of the top regional stars (that hadn't gone to WWF) were on Crockett's TV shows! And his titles had more prestige than any other local territories titles.

And he started buying up promotions to go national too!

And when he started doing stuff like Starrcade, didn't that really poke a huge hole in the territory system and really mess it up for a lot of regional fans? Becuase now they see all the top stars on Starrcade and the regional feel of pro-wrestling is gone with that show too. It wasn't just the WWF that was projecting that national image and forgetting about the territory system. Right?

 

So why does everyone these days act like Vince was such a scumbag? Crockett did it too, just within the confines of the NWA. He was still an NWA member but he had all the top talent and the NWA title.

 

 

Also another question. The Television and US title that Crockett was promoting on TV with his champions, those weren't national titles were they? What I'm saying is they used to be regional titles of Crockett's promotion, but as JCP became national then so did they. Right?

 

The animosity comes from the fact that Vince did it first and without regard to anyone else. He promoted in areas outside of his "territory", and that pissed off people to no end, especially considering the WWF at the time wasn't an NWA member. Crockett did it out of necessity and, as convoluted as it sounds, within the NWA system. He bought up the other remaining territories to at least keep some semblance of the old structure in place.

 

Ole and Georgia Championship Wrestling, by virtue of TBS, was able to do tours into Ohio, West Virginia, and Michigan because the territory up there, which was run by The Sheik, was down on its ass. Those tours did very good business initially.

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

Ole would have gone national if he could have, so that's probably where some of the bitterness toward Vince comes from.

 

 

That's what brings me to my question.

 

Why so much bitterness towards Vince for going national and stealing up talent?

 

It's not like Jim Crockett wasn't doing the exact same thing, he just operated (for a time) within the confines of the NWA. I mean he brought all the talent to his promotions and had a death-grip on the NWA title. I mean I watch WWE 24/7. If you watch those studio shows all of the top regional stars (that hadn't gone to WWF) were on Crockett's TV shows! And his titles had more prestige than any other local territories titles.

And he started buying up promotions to go national too!

And when he started doing stuff like Starrcade, didn't that really poke a huge hole in the territory system and really mess it up for a lot of regional fans? Becuase now they see all the top stars on Starrcade and the regional feel of pro-wrestling is gone with that show too. It wasn't just the WWF that was projecting that national image and forgetting about the territory system. Right?

 

So why does everyone these days act like Vince was such a scumbag? Crockett did it too, just within the confines of the NWA. He was still an NWA member but he had all the top talent and the NWA title.

McMahon and Crockett were not doing the exact same thing. What McMahon did that had people upset wasn't that he signed up the top regional stars, but that he would have them walk out of the territory with no notice and leave the various promoters in the lurch. Crockett signed up regional talent too, but he didn't have them walk out with no notice leaving a bunch of no-shows in their wake

 

Crockett did buy up promotions, but McMahon never did. He just cherry picked the talent he wanted.

 

Starrcadde was like JCP in that, at first, they were big regional deals, and stayed pretty much entirely in the Mid-Atlantic region, with the occasional venture to a neighboring state. Starrcade, and JCP in general, didn't try to go national until 1987, by which time the regional territories were dying out at a fast rate. There wasn't much of a territorial system to poke a hole in at that point.

 

Both Vince and JCP tried to go national, but there really isn't a comparison in how the two went about it.

[BruteSquad_BRODY]

Dusty going to Crockett robbed Florida of Dusty, Windham, Rotondo, Ron Bass and others almost right away

 

So JCP hurt alot of groups too.

[Damaramu]

Ah, thanks for the clarifications.

[Diamonddust]

Dusty going to Crockett robbed Florida of Dusty, Windham, Rotondo, Ron Bass and others almost right away

 

So JCP hurt alot of groups too.

 

Rhodes came to Crockett in 1984/85. Windham and Rotunda didn't head to Crockett until around 1986/1987, when Florida was pretty much on its ass anyways. Rhodes, even with Crockett, had a financial stake in Florida until Crockett bought it in 1987.

[Diamonddust]

Ole would have gone national if he could have, so that's probably where some of the bitterness toward Vince comes from.

 

 

That's what brings me to my question.

 

Why so much bitterness towards Vince for going national and stealing up talent?

 

It's not like Jim Crockett wasn't doing the exact same thing, he just operated (for a time) within the confines of the NWA. I mean he brought all the talent to his promotions and had a death-grip on the NWA title. I mean I watch WWE 24/7. If you watch those studio shows all of the top regional stars (that hadn't gone to WWF) were on Crockett's TV shows! And his titles had more prestige than any other local territories titles.

And he started buying up promotions to go national too!

And when he started doing stuff like Starrcade, didn't that really poke a huge hole in the territory system and really mess it up for a lot of regional fans? Becuase now they see all the top stars on Starrcade and the regional feel of pro-wrestling is gone with that show too. It wasn't just the WWF that was projecting that national image and forgetting about the territory system. Right?

 

So why does everyone these days act like Vince was such a scumbag? Crockett did it too, just within the confines of the NWA. He was still an NWA member but he had all the top talent and the NWA title.

McMahon and Crockett were not doing the exact same thing. What McMahon did that had people upset wasn't that he signed up the top regional stars, but that he would have them walk out of the territory with no notice and leave the various promoters in the lurch. Crockett signed up regional talent too, but he didn't have them walk out with no notice leaving a bunch of no-shows in their wake

 

Crockett did buy up promotions, but McMahon never did. He just cherry picked the talent he wanted.

 

Starrcadde was like JCP in that, at first, they were big regional deals, and stayed pretty much entirely in the Mid-Atlantic region, with the occasional venture to a neighboring state. Starrcade, and JCP in general, didn't try to go national until 1987, by which time the regional territories were dying out at a fast rate. There wasn't much of a territorial system to poke a hole in at that point.

 

Both Vince and JCP tried to go national, but there really isn't a comparison in how the two went about it.

 

Yeah... I think the only offer Vince made in regards to a promotion was the one he made to Verne Gagne and the AWA, and they basically told him to piss off.