Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted August 18, 2003 well if SK's suddenly so important I should point out that Eddie's matches stayed at *** or above for a 2 month period last year and according to SK the Armageddon main was ****1/4, the SD tag semi was ****, the Vebgeance match was supposedly ****+ (I've not read his rant for that yet, the match with Edge and Kidman on the Xmas SD was ****1/4, Edge at Unforgiven was ****, and on the SD after they went ****1/2, Had SK seen Rebellion I'm sure he'd have gone ****+ for the Los Guerreros Vs Angle/Benoit match too so thats at least 6 Eddie's had Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'm going off topic kind of... but that Armaggeddon Benoit/Eddy match was overrated. The one they just had was MUCH better than that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlwaysPissedOff 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Angle/Rey isn't a **** match, and the 3 way from Vengeance DAMN SURE isn't, either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'm going off topic kind of... but that Armaggeddon Benoit/Eddy match was overrated. The one they just had was MUCH better than that one. Agreed, they seemed to want more time than they had Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Edge vs. Eddie at Unforgiven (which I'll admit, I didn't see), Well you missed one of the best! It's funny that you're saying Angle > Eddie without even watching all the top work. Then even if you throw out Brock/Angle at WM (although SK gave it **** and Bret Hart called it one of the best matches he's seen in years) SK overrates matches frequently. Bret Hart hadn't watched in WWE in a long time, so if WM was the first PPV he watched in years, naturally Brock/Angle would be the best he's seen by default (the Shawn Michaels match as better....but he's not going to call that the best, obviously). And of course......Bret Hart saying something makes it true! Oh, and I forgot that Angle dragged a good match out of Booker back in the day. That was a freakin miracle. Angle/Booker for the WCW Title, and Benoit/Booker on Raw the first night that Bischoff was there were the only decent matches Booker's had since he came in to the WWE. Thanks for ignoring Booker/Austin.....just like you choose to ignore all the great non-WWE work of Guerrero. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Booker/Austin was not good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Booker/Austin was not good. Oh yes it was. To which match are you referring? The supermarket ass kicking? The match with Bossman's run-in? This Booker/Austin match was from SD after the Royal Rumble. It was very good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 The only one I saw was a first blood match on SD. Good for a TV match...but not "good" If there's one I missed then he was probably carried. Booker T is not a good worker...hence he only has good matches with Benoit, Angle and maybe Austin. Those are like...the best workers in the WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 The only one I saw was a first blood match on SD. Good for a TV match...but not "good" If there's one I missed then he was probably carried. Booker T is not a good worker...hence he only has good matches with Benoit, Angle and maybe Austin. Those are like...the best workers in the WWE. bps- Do I have to produce the long list of good Booker T matches again?? He IS a good worker. And he did have a good match with Austin on January 24th, 2002- the match was 9 minutes long and Austin won with the stunner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted August 18, 2003 The only one I saw was a first blood match on SD. Good for a TV match...but not "good" If there's one I missed then he was probably carried. Well you missed a classic! Austin was on fire that night, and the crowd was shit hot for him. I say this is Booker's best WWE match, from what I can remember. Fun as hell with a clean finish. I found it on kazaa a few months ago. I recommend it for everyone to download. Booker T is not a good worker...hence he only has good matches with Benoit, Angle and maybe Austin. Those are like...the best workers in the WWE. I don't rate Booker too highly, but... My point is, that guy is IGNORING good matches to further his argument. And he did have a good match with Austin on January 24th, 2002- the match was 9 minutes long and Austin won with the stunner Wooo! Someone else remembers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I've seen your list and they aren't good. Booker is not a good worker. I know that you like him. But he's not a good worker. He's a very boring worker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 How can someone be a "boring" worker? A boring _wrestler_ yes, but worker? RRR: Feeling like Lance Storm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 A worker is a wrestler. Wrestler as in the guy in act of wrestling or working. Maybe that got confused by 20 minute promo's and Katie Vick storylines... but how can someone wrestle without working the match? *Waits for obvious Kevin Nash joke* *Then waits for answer* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I've seen your list and they aren't good. Booker is not a good worker. I know that you like him. But he's not a good worker. He's a very boring worker. You didn't like- July 16th, 2001 v. Chris Jericho? March 20th, 2002 v. Edge? April 1st, 2002 v. Rob Van Dam? August 8th, 2002 v. Lance Storm? Those were four off the top of my head. Not to mention the numerous WCW matches I can list. None of those involved Austin, Angle or Benoit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 No. I didn't like any of those. I explained this in the other thread that we played this game about Booker T. Look...I like Booker, I really do. There's another thread near the top here where I explained that he was robbed at Mania this year and should be world champion. I was happy that he won the IC title and I hope he gets better quick. I do not, however, believe that he is a good worker. Hell...I'm the #1 RVD fan and I wholeheartedly believe that the man has had 1 match I'd call good...and I'm damn certain he was carried through that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'm not ignoring good matches to further my point. I just didn't happen to remember a **1/4 star television match that Austin might have managed to carry Booker to. The Angle match on Smackdown and the Benoit match on Raw are still the only Booker T matches I can remember that are worth remarking on. And I'm really sick of this "everything outside of the WWE is great" attitude. Saying Eddie Guerrero is the best wrestler in the world today because of his matches in WCW five years ago is like saying HHH is the best brawler in the world today because of his matches with Foley three years ago. You have to count what's going on now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 If you want- I can post a list of matches that I enjoyed that involved Booker T. bps- stay out of this. The match with Austin was really good and was one of Austin's last good matches. He also faced Angle three times on RAW- July 9th, 2001 July 30th, 2001 September 25th, 2001 Those were all good matches aside from the SD! match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Eddie isn't having great matches now? He looks pretty darn good to me every week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I would probably call Eddy the best wrestler that I see in the world today. Sure I'm limited to like...WWE, TNA and 3 month old ROH tapes...but that's some stuff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'd have to say that Eddy is feeling it the most right now. Paul London and Homicide are right up there but London's been inactive for a month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I've just started getting to Homicide kicking ass. I'll tell you...he doesn't look like he'd be good. But that man can go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I would probably call Eddy the best wrestler that I see in the world today. Sure I'm limited to like...WWE, TNA and 3 month old ROH tapes...but that's some stuff... Me too. I still like Benoit better overall, but Eddy has been outperforming him since January. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'll tell you this though... If they don't fuck up the ineviteble break up of the team and hurt his singles career... a few years from now we'll all be talking about Shelton Benjamin being the best in the company. I like everything I see of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I've just started getting to Homicide kicking ass. I'll tell you...he doesn't look like he'd be good. But that man can go. Homicide has been unfairly typecast as a New Jack wannabe due to his look and the fact that he does hardcore style. He didn't breaking out in ROH until Boogaloo got turfed and since then he's been tearing it up in Ring of Honor and is my second favourite behind Punk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'm not ignoring good matches to further my point. Yes, you are. You're tossing out star ratings and numbers left and right, saying "Angle had X number of **** matches and Eddie only had 2", without even watching what is regarded by all as one of Eddie's best WWE matches (vs. Edge - Unforgiven). I just didn't happen to remember a **1/4 star television match that Austin might have managed to carry Booker to. **1/4? HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW THAT?! Assuming a match is only **1/4 without even seeing it is idiotic. And I'm really sick of this "everything outside of the WWE is great" attitude. Get used to it, because it's true. The best work from Japan blows away anything WWE ever did. Saying Eddie Guerrero is the best wrestler in the world today because of his matches in WCW five years ago is like saying HHH is the best brawler in the world today because of his matches with Foley three years ago. No, it isn't.....because Eddie's performance TODAY is just as good as it was then. You have to count what's going on now. Eddie > Angle............RIGHT NOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KTID 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Hell...I'm the #1 RVD fan and I wholeheartedly believe that the man has had 1 match I'd call good...and I'm damn certain he was carried through that. Sorry, but I feel the need to argue. Since there's always people arguing in favour of Angle, Jericho, Booker, Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy and more being "good workers", and since everyone keeps saying RVD isn't a "good worker", I feel like I should argue for him. (As he's clearly in the same league as those guys, though obviously not in the same league as Benoit, Eddie, Austin until about a year ago, Ultimo before surgery, etc.) Here's the list of Rob Van Dam's matches (*SINGLES* matches on *PPV*) that I rate as being "good matches". Vs Jerry Lynn, Living Dangerously '99 Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '99 Vs Ballz Mahoney, Anarchy Rulz '99 Vs Sabu, Guilty As Charged '00 Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '00 Vs Scotty Anton, Heat Wave '00 Vs Rhino, Anarchy Rulz '00 Vs Jerry Lynn, Guilty As Charged '01 Vs Jeff Hardy, InVasion Vs Jeff Hardy, Summerslam '01 Vs Chris Jericho, Unforgiven '01 Vs Eddie Guerrero, Judgement Day '02 Vs Chris Benoit, Summerslam '02 That's 13 matches! Not even including TV matches, such as the TV title win against Bam Bam Bigelow or the RAW match vs Eddie, or tag team matches, such as w/Sabu vs Hayabusa and Jinsei Shinzaki at Heat Wave '98 or w/Jerry Lynn vs Lance Storm and Justin Credible at Heat Wave '99 (I could also include Japanese matches that I have seen, such as vs Sabu or vs Dan Kroffat). Now, I would like to hear an argument against this from the "RVD is a terrible worker" crowd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I've missed maybe two Raws and three Smackdowns in the last three years. Of course I saw the Austin/Booker match. I don't remember it very well, but I remember that it was nothing worth remarking on, and couldn't have been higher than two and half a stars. And if Eddie Guerrero's work is as good now as it was five years ago, then I should be able to judge him simply on his work now without having to dig up old stuff to find out why he's so good. My point with the star ratings is that Angle's had more good matches than Eddie despite having less talented opponents and missing a few months due to injury. Oh, and missing ONE Eddie PPV match doesn't disqualify me either. Even if you count it, Eddie's still got less good matches than Angle. I'm not saying that Eddie's not a good worker. I really like his stuff. He's undeniably one of the top five workers in the United States right now. I just don't think that he quite measures up to the standard Angle has set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 BTW, RVD mark, Benoit/RVD at Summerslam wasn't good at all. RVD did the same thing he did against HHH on Raw where he completely forgot to sell anything as soon as he started a comeback. The best RVD matches I can remember were RVD/Guerrero at JD, RVD/Guerrero on Raw, RVD/Austin on Smackdown, and RVD/Jeff Hardy at Invasion and Summerslam. Actually, RVD had a weird chemistry with Hardy. He had a great match with him on the Raw where Bischoff came in too. I just watched it again and I forgot how good it was. The only problem with RVD is that his inability to sell ruins him in any submission-based match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KTID 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 I'm not saying that Eddie's not a good worker. I really like his stuff. He's undeniably one of the top five workers in the United States right now. I just don't think that he quite measures up to the standard Angle has set. Good thing Angle's not over-rated though, eh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 Sorry RVDMark, I feel the need to argue, as a fellow RVD mark. RVD Vs Ballz Mahoney, Anarchy Rulz '99 was NOT good. RVD Vs Sabu, Guilty As Charged '00 wasn't very good either. That might be a biased on my part though since I don't like Sabu at all. RVD Vs Scotty Anton, Heat Wave '00 was decent, but not good. RVD Vs Rhino, Anarchy Rulz '00 was boring. And Iggy, I agree. RVD does have a weird chemistry with Jeff. The only matches Hardy was involved in in his last part of his WWE run that could be considered even close to good involved RVD. Well, he had a good match with Jericho, but the point still stands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
