Tupac? How did he change Rap?

[Guest S&M]

I read all these guys speaking about Eminem not being that high on the Source awards, the biggest reason is, Em is hated by the Source, for example, "the Sauce" you think their gonna give him cred after something like that?

 

Thats not my point, someone asked what Em has done to really change rap! The biggest thing he has done is allowed other "whites" to rap and not get booed off the stage instantly, good or bad, he showed White Boys can flow. Vanilla Ice, Whitey Ford, they never were "rappers"! Ok AGAIN I'm rambling.

 

How did Tupac and Biggie change rap while they where alive, what did they do that no one before them had ever done?

 

Expain please!

[Red Baron 0]

I'm no rap guru or anything, but I think Tupac had melodies in his songs, which made him stand out.

 

don't forget east vs west.

[Guest S&M]

Yeah melodies maybe, I'm not so sure on that one, East vs. West was already in full swing when Pac was coming up best I know!

[Black Lushus 0]

The East/West fued didn't really come into the spotlight until the Tupac/Biggie murders. It may have been lingering, but until the "Suge talking shit at the Source Awards" incident and the killings, it wasn't really a big issue. Mostly just guys dissing each others styles on wax.

 

Anyway, Tupac didn't really change rap around too much, in my opinion, though his lyrics and delivery style were a lot better than most at the time. If anyone changed rap it was Master P and No Limit and the Cash Money guys. Changed for the worst i must add. I absolutely HATE their style but southern rap has really blown up since they came around, especially amongst teenage white girls (which I noticed the past few times I've been to the music stores),. The only southern acts I can listen to are Nappy Roots and of course OutKast...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

How did Tupac and Biggie change rap while they where alive, what did they do that no one before them had ever done?

They were good at what they did. Heck, "2Pac...Now" still gives me shivers every now and then when I hear it...

[Black Lushus 0]

I'm with you, KKK (that doesn't look right coming from me, but It's part of your screenname)...I prefer 2Pacalypse Now and Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. over his later stuff anyday of the week, though "How Do You Want It" is my all time favorite 2Pac song...

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I'm no rap guru or anything, but I think Tupac had melodies in his songs, which made him stand out.

Of course, there must be a melody for a song to be a song. So, you could say Tupac allowed for rap songs instead of "tracks".

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

But there's a difference between having a melody (which all songs do, whether or not you want to admit it, because you can HEAR it) and BEING melodic. A lot of 2Pac's work was melodic.

 

I just think Pac was a great lyricist with killer flow.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

^^ and more than enough charisma to make fans suspend disbelief and buy every minute of it.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I prefer 2Pacalypse Now and Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. over his later stuff anyday of the week, though "How Do You Want It" is my all time favorite 2Pac song...

Another freaky album was the first attempt to suck the deceased rapper's audience for every penny they have. Oops, I meant 2Pac's first posthumous album. " U Still Down?" especially that first disc of the album.

 

Oh, and probably my favorite song on "All Eyes (or is it Eyez -- yo yo yo) on Me" is "Heart's of Men." For some reason I love those Richard Pryor samples...

[Guest Doyo]

Thats not my point, someone asked what Em has done to really change rap! The biggest thing he has done is allowed other "whites" to rap and not get booed off the stage instantly, good or bad, he showed White Boys can flow. Vanilla Ice, Whitey Ford, they never were "rappers"! Ok AGAIN I'm rambling.

 

Beastie Boys, House of Pain and 3rd Bass were all pretty much respected. Vanilla Ice's

flow and lyrics are actually better than a lot of the rap that comes out today.

 

How did Tupac and Biggie change rap while they where alive, what did they do that no one before them had ever done?

 

Dr Dre's "G-funk" style became the dominant force in rap after the "The Chronic" came out

in 1992. Just about everything that came out that became popular was using this

style of beatmaking. That was, until Biggie came out. Biggie became popular and you now

had Bad Boy Records as a force to rival Death Row Records.

 

Even before his death, media coverage probably played a bigger role in 2pac's success than in

that of any other rapper. From Vice President Quayle criticising him, to all of his troubles

with the law, 2pac was always in the news.

 

As far as their actual music, neither Biggie or 2pac really did anything that hadn't been done

before. Biggie owes a lot of his rhyme style to Kool G Rap. People such as Ice T and Ice Cube

were both doing the gangsta rap thing before 2pac, and they both got into movies before him

also. There were rap songs with melody coming out before 2pac went through puberty.

 

2pac and Biggie changed rap the most by becoming martyrs by getting murdered. This made

them both permanent legends. You got all these kids nowadays with 2pac posters on their

walls and most of them probably don't even know who people like KRS-One, Ice T or Rakim are.

 

Don't get me wrong, 2pac and Biggie were both great artists, but they became almost household

names by getting murdered.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Both Tupac and B.I.G. have a touch of Kurt Cobain syndrome going on. They've become matyrs for a new generation.

[Guest S&M]

Ok so what I'm gathering is that neither Tupac or Biggie truly changed rap at all, their styles where already done before they came out, their so big MOSTLY because of the heated ROW/BAD BOY rivalry, east/west, and their deaths, very little of that has to do with them changing music. I enjoy both Biggie and Tupac's music. I was thinking thought that its always came across to me that if you think about it in wrestling turns like I always do, it seems to me Pac is always the "face" and Biggie comes across more Heelish, not a monster heel, but a Heel! Maybe its cuz Pac was killed first, who knows!

[Damaramu 0]

Well....2Pac was a smart guy....I mean he was very well read and could've been a sociologist if he wanted...hell...I don't understand why he took the path that he did.

[Steviekick 0]

Tupac and Biggie didn't change the rap world as far as doing something new is concerned. They just happened to be two really talented rappers who had great lyrics/flow, who publicly feuded with each other, and happened to have the same tragic ending.

[razazteca 0]

2Pac did nothing it was all Knight and Dr Dre. 2Pac was just a product of hype done by Death Row. 2Pac was a very charismatic performer who knew how to work the media into believing the hype.

 

Whitey Ford was a member of House of Pain under a diff name. Beastie Boys did more than Eminem.

[Steviekick 0]

2Pac did nothing it was all Knight and Dr Dre. 2Pac was just a product of hype done by Death Row. 2Pac was a very charismatic performer who knew how to work the media into believing the hype.

 

Whitey Ford was a member of House of Pain under a diff name. Beastie Boys did more than Eminem.

I don't fully agree with your Tupac argument, but I can see where you are coming from.

 

I do definitely agree with your thoughts on Eminem and Beasties.

[razazteca 0]

Dr Dre is doing the same thing with 50 cent that Shug Knight did with 2Pac.

[Henry Spencer 0]

I was thinking thought that its always came across to me that if you think about it in wrestling turns like I always do, it seems to me Pac is always the "face" and Biggie comes across more Heelish, not a monster heel, but a Heel!

 

Funny, I always saw it being the other way around, but I'll admit, I haven't followed their "feud" too closely. Maybe I just have a soft spot for fat people.

[ant_7000 0]

2pac didn't really change the rap game as far as subject matter concern, but he had skill and he fed off of his emotions on some of his songs. 2pac is probably the most dedicated rapper ever, I heard he used write songs and poems everyday and record in the studio that day. Biggie, I think changed the game as far as bringing back materialistic style of rap.

 

I think Master P has changed the rap game more than Big and Pac did, he STOLE the West Coast sound/formula and brought it to the south. P is the reason why a lot of Southern rappers were just getting deals left and right. Also, the way Master P pimped the Music Industry is amazing, He and Cash Money should do a instructional "How to run your own record label" video.

[Ripper 0]

Suge Knight did not MAKE Tupac and it is ridiculous to look at it like that. Tupac was already the most recognizable face in hip-hop before he signed to Death Row. He had 3 albums ( 2pacalypse Now, Strictly, and Me against the world) which all had a great following to them. Tupac signing to Death Row was like Jordan signing to the Wizards. He was a superstar signing to the label. And Suge Knight couldn't produce a record if you put a gun to his head....he just owns the label.

 

Neither changed rap...but both were VERY VERY good at it. Larry Bird didn't change how basketball was played, but he is one of the best ever. THAT is why they stand out. They did it better than most of the other rappers that have done it. Both in different styles (Tupac more emotional and Biggie more on his wordplay and delievery) but they were two of the best.

 

And Eminem has the highest selling Hip-hop debut ever, a Oscar, multiple grammy and brought hip-hop to a whole other audience. The Beasties did it on a LOT smaller scale a long time ago. So how have they done more for hip-hop than Em. (and I am a Beasties fan, but come on...)

 

And please...never call House of Pain a "respected" hip hop group. Hell, Coolio isn't a respected hip-hop act and he had more songs that got air play than them. Jump Around...name another.... House of Pain are the very definition of one hit wonder, right beside Right Said Fred and that guy that wore his sunglasses at night.

[Guest S&M]

Ripper I totally agree with you on the Eminem thing, He's the one of the highest selling rap artists ever, he's got an oscars, more grammy's than any other rapper if I'm not mistaken, a movie that grossed over 100$ Million, Em like him or not for what ever reason is bigger, than the Beasties, Ford, anyone other rapper that has that same lighter skin tone, than the rest.

 

My only problem was I saw a thread speaking on Em was so low on the Source best songs list because he hasn't changed rap like Pac and some of the others. If anything Em has changed rap MAYBE the most since a group that said "mutha fuck the POlice, gave you a track full of dope beats......sorry" anyway my point is Em has opened his music and the music of his peers to a whole new audience, he IS a pioneer of some sorts, and he has the cred to back it up! Guys like X, Jigga, Nas, they wouldn't be doing shit with him if he was a punk, if he was weak, they'd be the one's diss'n him, instead you got Murder Inc. on him, and their only on him because he signed Fifty, before he signed fifty not even Ja had a problem with Em.

 

Oh on a side note, I thought "lose yourself" was a story type song too, a positive story too, I thought that if J Lo and some of the other punks song's where on there, I figured that song deserved cred for being a story song!

 

Lata All,

 

S&M: Still waiting for the day, people get over Eminem being white and realize that songs like "till I collapse are WAY ahead of what most other rappers are doing"

[Guest Doyo]

And Eminem has the highest selling Hip-hop debut ever

 

Beastie Boys - "Licensed to Ill" - 9 (# of million sold)

Nelly - "Country Grammar" - 8

Vanilla Ice - "To The Extreme" - 7

Puff Daddy & Family - "No Way Out" - 7

Eminem - "Slim Shady LP" - 5

(current sales certifications from riaa.com)

 

Here's some other albums I looked up for the heck of it:

Kid Rock's debut - 11

MC Hammer - "Please Hammer..." - 10

Eminem - "MM LP" - 8

Eminem - "Em. Show" - 8

Linkin Park's debut - 8

Milli "we won a grammy" Vanilli's debut - 6

Dr. Dre "2001" - 6

Nelly - "Nellyville" - 6

50 Cent's debut - 5

Jay Z - "Hard Knock Life" - 5

DMX - "And Then There Was X" - 5

Notorious B.I.G. - "Life After Death" - 5 (certified 10 because it has 2 discs)

2Pac - "All Eyez on Me" - 4.5 (cert. 9)

2Pac - "Greatest Hits" - 4.5 (cert. 9)

Dr. Dre - "Chronic" - 3

Beastie Boys - "Ill Communication" - 3

Beastie Boys - "Hello Nasty" - 3

Beastie Boys - "Paul's Boutique" - 2

Beastie Boys - "Check Your Head" - 2

Beastie Boys - "Anthology" - 1 (cert. 2)

 

The Beasties did it on a LOT smaller scale a long time ago. So how have they done more for hip-hop than Em. (and I am a Beasties fan, but come on...)

 

You could write a big book on the Beastie Boys accomplishments for rap and music

in general. Their major label debut came out in 1986 when few white people were into rap.

They along with Run D.M.C. were the first rap groups to really be accepted by the mainstream.

Every 3 or so years since 1986 they have come back with an album that has gone platinum.

No other rap acts have done this and few acts in all of music have either. They are not a straight-

ahead rap act, but this is part of their strength. They blend in elements of other types of

music into their work. Their second album, that was produced by the Dust Brothers, gets

praised for its groundbreaking sample techniques. They started their own record label and

they founded the "Free Tibet" charity festivals.

 

And please...never call House of Pain a "respected" hip hop group. Hell, Coolio isn't a respected hip-hop act and he had more songs that got air play than them. Jump Around...name another.... House of Pain are the very definition of one hit wonder, right beside Right Said Fred and that guy that wore his sunglasses at night.

 

Don't dismiss them just because they had one big hit song. And what does hit songs have to do

with respect anyway? Nelly and Hammer have each had more hits and sold way more albums

than Public Enemy, Boogie Down Productions and Eric B & Rakim combined. DJ Muggs did most

of the production for House of Pain. Everlast was a member of Ice T's Rhyme Syndicate. Check

out songs like "Shamrocks and Shenanigans", "Put Your Head Out", "Put On Your Shit Kickers",

"Back From The Dead", "On Point", and "Who's The Man". I just got them all off Kazaa.

 

Oh and Corey "sunglasses at night" Hart also had another hit song called "Never Surrender"

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

But there's a difference between having a melody (which all songs do, whether or not you want to admit it, because you can HEAR it) and BEING melodic.

Talking with a beat behind it does not a melody make.

 

Give me The Roots any day of the week.

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

How would 2Pac be considered the "face" of the rivalry when all he did was make mean-spirited diss records about Biggie and the entire East Coast and talk about how he fucked Faith Evans in interviews while Biggie pretty much stood silent and never made an answer record or spoke badly about 'Pac in retaliation?

[Guest Doyo]

And don't forget that 2pac was a convicted rapist. Also, he served jail time

for assaulting one of the Hughes brothers, who seem like pretty calm guys.

[Steviekick 0]

But there's a difference between having a melody (which all songs do, whether or not you want to admit it, because you can HEAR it) and BEING melodic.

Talking with a beat behind it does not a melody make.

 

Give me The Roots any day of the week.

Yeah, but listening to the Roots and Tupac is comparing two totally different styles. Both are still rap.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

They're both rap but they're two totally different styles? Do you see the contradiction?

[Ripper 0]

And don't forget that 2pac was a convicted rapist. Also, he served jail time

for assaulting one of the Hughes brothers, who seem like pretty calm guys.

On a side note, the girl said she had consensual sex with Tupac, he was accused of telling his boys they could hit it and leaving... He was no rapist.

 

And I don't know...I was watching the making of "From Hell" and I wanted to punch one of them.

[Guest Doyo]

On a side note, the girl said she had consensual sex with Tupac, he was accused of telling his boys they could hit it and leaving... He was no rapist.

Technically he was convicted for sexual assault. I think letting your two friends

rape someone is worse than raping them yourself. Anyway, it was a her word

vs. their word thing, so none of us can really be 100% certain of what happened.