Highland 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Hmm ok I'm not refering to Vince's character on the shows, but Vince the businessman. Many people (mainly those no longer in his employ) gripe about him, and so does the irc (I'm amongst those gripers). BUT, the biggest gripe I do not like is "His daddy gave him the business" No, daddy gave him the business, but it was Vince jr. that turned it into business (successful or otherwise) that it is today. Basically what I want to ask, and if this is the wrong forum for this then I apologize, is did Vince Sr. make a mistake when he gave the business to his son? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
{''({o..o})''} 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince and Linds did buy WWF from Vince Sr. Vince Sr. was pretty much forced out by Vince. One thing that you must Give the elder McMahon is that he didn't let his son become a preformer and made him do the ring set up and many other odd jobs as opposed to what is done now with Shane and Stephanie. Also we do owe some to Vince because if it wasn't for "rock and wrestling" and Wrestlemania, many people wouldn't have gotten the exposure to wrestling like they did today. The stars of the future were almost surely inspired by what they seen from Vince since he has gained control of WWE(F). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince's biggest problem is that he allows his kids (particularly, Steph) to get away with too much. Vince will never demote her, no matter how much she runs WWE into the ground. That said, I dislike Steph (and HHH) far more than Vince. She's the one directly responsible for this mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 To be fair Shane too worked setting up the rings and as a referee before becoming a top official. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 You know I would have one of the McMahons as an announcer on Raw now instead of the current team. Also we do owe some to Vince because if it wasn't for "rock and wrestling" and Wrestlemania, many people wouldn't have gotten the exposure to wrestling like they did today. The stars of the future were almost surely inspired by what they seen from Vince since he has gained control of WWE(F). True but the 80's is over and its time to move on with something different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Fond memories of SSeries and RR past with Shane as the outside referee...with a bowl haircut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest krazykat72 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 To correct a poster from above, Vince did not force his father out at all. He purchased the company from him and was making quarterly payments up until Vince Sr.'s death. Dave Meltzer wrote a very good piece on the expansion years of the WWF back in March and April. -Paul Jacobi- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Shane did work as a referee, but only after being thrust right into a main event angle. It's not like he was just some random ref and they were like, "Whaddya know, that ref is Vince's son!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 I really enjoyed Vince being off TV last year (what a nice half year hiatus from him), I wish he would do it again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Shane did work as a referee, but only after being thrust right into a main event angle. It's not like he was just some random ref and they were like, "Whaddya know, that ref is Vince's son!" No, he started before then...do you own Survivor Series 89? If so, watch the first match and the ref at ringside in particular, because it's Shane O Mac...with previously mentioned bowl haircut. He started refereeing in the late 80's, not just during the Attitude era. As for Vince, the problem is his character is a known ratings winner in the past. So obviously he'd use himself over guys like RVD and Christian when they cause the ratings to drop. Plus, Vince can still play a role as a manager, because he cuts a good interview or promo when he's not all over the latest hot blonde. So obviously he'll book himself to be out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Plus, Vince can still play a role as a manager, because he cuts a good interview or promo when he's not all over the latest hot blonde. So obviously he'll book himself to be out there. Sable is still a hot blonde? Oh, and thanks for the correction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince deserves praise and grief. The product you see on your television screen is his vision. Yes, writers do have some impact on that vision, but he has the final say in what makes it on tv and what doesn't. In Wrestling Observer's from the past, Meltzer even says that Vince has actually (gasp) vetoed ideas Steph has had that were both good and bad. Vince is final edit of the tv scripts and main event angles. He is the one you want. Steph and Shane have influence on him, that's for sure, but Vince is the one who has the power to say no. Vince McMahon's vision of wrestling is scarily close to Vince Russo's. That's why the same template for the format of both shows is still the same from 1997. It's opening match promo, skit, match, skit, skit, commercial, skit, match, promo, etc. If McMahon could do what he does with even less wrestling, he would. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest netslob Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince Mcmahon deserves all the grief he gets and more. nuff said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted October 4, 2003 I think this is the best way I can put it. Vince is a genius as a businessman, but he knows NOTHING about wrestling...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Shane also makes an appearance at WMVIII after Savage gets beat down. I think Vince currently deserves a lot of the grief he gets. He's slowly running his company into the ground. And I don't understand his constant need to give the finger to his loyal fans like revisiting the Montreal screw job everytime they go to Canada. I'll stop giving him grief when he starts making shows for the fans and not himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Yeah, anyone that shoves himself, Linda, Shane, and Steph in everyone's face on tv every week does deserve this, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince killed pro wrestling, so fuck yes he deserves all the grief he gets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 I was reading through "Have a Nice Day" again the other day and I realized something. Foley praises Vince some in his book and most of it was true.....for that time. Most of the stuff you could praise Vince for has gone right out the window. He used to be a great risk taker...now he just does what Steph and the people in his ear want. He used to listen to the wrestlers...now he just listens to certain people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2003 As for Vince, the problem is his character is a known ratings winner in the past. So obviously he'd use himself over guys like JR and Coach when they cause the ratings to drop. Fixed it for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest whatitistoburn Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince killed pro wrestling, so fuck yes he deserves all the grief he gets. I know what ya mean man. I really miss being able to watch wrestling on TV. I mean sure I have all those videos and all, and those are fun to watch, but without angles now, we all know that to a point there will be a final tape. It's also a shame that there are no more independent wrestling companies. It amazes me that one man was able to kill off the entire idea of pro wrestling. Wait a minute... what am I talking about? Pro... wrestling? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted October 4, 2003 Vince has NEVER *created* a successful company himself. WWF/E was inherited from his father. WBF, XFL, etc. were all his own creations and they flopped. So yeah, he's not someone that I would try to emulate in the business world. Not at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest deadbeater Report post Posted October 5, 2003 I prefer the cool but dangerous Solie-sounding Vince over barker overhype Vince. He had Jesse Ventura already, who is as flamboyant as one can get. Does he have to be too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted October 5, 2003 Vinces does deserve a lot of grief, but there are several people who are bringing WWE down. By coming up with stupid ideas , ignoring history (Kane drives cars now?), being too loyal (Moolah still wrestles, Undertaker still is invincible), trying to make everything even-steven (no one gains momentum because everyone needs to get their wins back), being gun-shy (not creating new stars) and stuck in the past (big men = ratings). But just wait until after Vince wins the WM20 main event until you REALLY lay into him. That of course will be a 6-way Hell in a Cell match where Vince beats Hogan, Stone Cold, Stephanie McMahon, Shane McMahon, and Mick Foley all at once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2003 If Vince gets all the praise when WWE is successful, he should get all the heat if it sucks. End of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2003 I will say this about Vince. Unlike his daughter or soon-to-be son-in-law, Vince has no problem letting someone get over on him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted October 5, 2003 I will say this about Vince. Unlike his daughter or soon-to-be son-in-law, Vince has no problem letting someone get over on him. Vince only lets the biggest stars go over him: Hogan, Austin, Rock, HHH, Ric Flair....if Vince was wrestling the Kanes and Big Shows of the world he'd be beating all of them. Besides, VINCE was the McMahon who put himself over 29 guys in the '99 Rumble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2003 If Vince gets all the praise when WWE is successful, he should get all the heat if it sucks. End of story. I don't think he should get all of either. He should get a good proportion of it, but there are other people that influence the product. If we had perfect writing, but Benoit, Eddy, etc simply decided to stop trying and slap on chinlocks for the entire match, the product would be terrible and it would be as much their fault as it is Vince's. If Patrick Ramsey is the next Johnny Unitas and the Skins win the Super Bowl, Dan Snyder shouldn't be the one getting all of the credit. Steph is in charge of creative right now, and it is her end of the company that is failing. Steph (and HHH) are the problems here. Vince isn't blameless (he can remove her, but doesn't), but if Steph actually did her job the company wouldn't be in the mess it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2003 What I just want to know is how a man who knows so little about wrestling can run this company? As proven lately Vince knows NOTHING about the wrestling business or about how to connect with the fans. He may have known it at one time but he seems to have forgotten it in favor of himself and his family. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2003 Well Vince didn't really put himself over anybody in the Rumble. He left the match and then came back to do commentary.....he didn't actually do anything to win.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 7, 2003 Vince knows far more about wrestling then you all think. He knows more then most in the business, the problem isn't ignorance... it's a loathing of whatever the current trends in the business are and a fierce desire to be completely independant of the rest of the industry. This stems from a loathing of the wrestling business itself. No matter how pig-headed it seems. Vince's strengths used to be that he offered a lot more creative freedom and opportunity then WCW, coupled with a far more effective marketing machine that made stars rather then bought them from the competition. Vince's influence stems far deeper then would be expected.I mean, the nWo is really Vince's creation. Without Vince would you have cared that Scott Hall and Vinnie Vegas were "taking over?" And it worked the other way as well: Mark Calloway Paul Levensque (sp?) Mick Foley Scott Hall Kevin Nash Steve Austin I mean, Vince took good workers who could never get over, and gave them their shot. It didn't always work the first time 'round, but they were still far better off then they were in WCW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
