Why is Prop 54 a bad thing?

[Lando Griffin 0]

I asked this in a previous thread but didn't get a straight answer from anyone opposing it (most notably NoCalMike).

 

I don't live in California so it won't affect me, but I'm still curious. And if anybody calls me a racist, you can just die.

 

Proposition 54

[Guest Plushy Al Logan]

I'm voting in favor of that, Prop. 53, and the recall today. Fuck the candidates.

[Highland 0]

I'd vote for it too; affirmative action is only another form of segregation.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

b/c it will make it harder to get rid of illegal immigrants.

[Firestarter 0]

In which particular pipe dream does that happen, with or without Prop 54?

[Ripper 0]

b/c it will make it harder to get rid of illegal immigrants.

I'm confused...what?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

“The state shall not classify any individual by race, ethnicity, color or national origin in the operation of public education, public contracting or public employment.”

 

 

That will make it harder for the state to classify illegals.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

“The state shall not classify any individual by race, ethnicity, color or national origin in the operation of public education, public contracting or public employment.”

 

 

That will make it harder for the state to classify illegals.

Doesn't this only aply to jobs and education? The government should still be able to keep track of immigrants by other means.

[Ripper 0]

“The state shall not classify any individual by race, ethnicity, color or national origin in the operation of public education, public contracting or public employment.”

 

 

That will make it harder for the state to classify illegals.

Because California is doing such a bang up job on it now.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

But your still letting people here illegally take up jobs and spots in schools.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

“The state shall not classify any individual by race, ethnicity, color or national origin in the operation of public education, public contracting or public employment.”

 

 

That will make it harder for the state to classify illegals.

Because California is doing such a bang up job on it now.

Good point.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

“The state shall not classify any individual by race, ethnicity, color or national origin in the operation of public education, public contracting or public employment.”

 

 

That will make it harder for the state to classify illegals.

Because California is doing such a bang up job on it now.

Hmm, maybe if we take away their licenses, free health care and free college tuition, they'll go away.

 

Then again maybe not...

 

(EDIT: I forgot to mention taking away crappy jobs nobody else wants to work, too)

Edited October 8, 2003 by kkktookmybabyaway

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

b/c it will make it harder to get rid of illegal immigrants.

No. They're "undocumented" for a reason.

[NoCalMike 0]

Umm I did explain it extensively in another thread, and people who disagreed argued with me also. What exactly do you still need to know? Go find that thread.

[Lando Griffin 0]

OK, I found it, and I now know that Prop 54 is a good thing, although it was unfortunately defeated. Don't want to offend the minorities, I guess.

[Ripper 0]

But your still letting people here illegally take up jobs and spots in schools.

Thats funny. Because so many people are lineing up for the jobs that illegal immigrants have. How DARE they steal the work. I like how alot of the state construction work is done by illegals, alot of the blood supply and organ donations are from illegals, and all that is fine. But fuck them for going to school.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Blood supply and organ donation?

 

State construction? From what I heard those jobs pay well.

 

I'm thinking more like slaughterhouses and hotel maid services...

[Dr. Tom 0]

But fuck them for going to school.

Fuck anyone for going to school on my tax dollars and leeching off the system while they're in this country illegally and getting paid under the table. If someone wants to come to America the right way, then they deserve their piece of the pie at dinner. But anyone who's here illegally who just leeches off the money provided by honest taxpayers is a fucking thief.

[Ripper 0]

But fuck them for going to school.

Fuck anyone for going to school on my tax dollars and leeching off the system while they're in this country illegally and getting paid under the table. If someone wants to come to America the right way, then they deserve their piece of the pie at dinner. But anyone who's here illegally who just leeches off the money provided by honest taxpayers is a fucking thief.

The combined losses in taxes that would go to these illegals (who, once again are giving back to the economy through their purchases) are no where near to the waste of said tax dollars by the government, and the tax moneys never collected by corporate tax evasion/loopholes.

 

I'm not saying that the immigration problem is cool, but when people try to point at "all the jobs we lose" and "what about my taxes" and "it kills the economy" as reason, I find it laughable. Immigrant patronage keep many business out of the red and make up a huge profit for others and that keeps people employed. They work for companies doing jobs that don't want to be done by anyone else, and make seriously large(although this is never mentioned) contributions to our blood supplies, and organ donations.

 

If you are against illegal immigrants, thats all fine and good, but lets not pretend that this country doesn't make massive profits from them that otherwise wouldn't be made.

[ant_7000 0]

Prop 54 is a nice idea in a sense, but I think don't think people ready for that type of change. Illegal immagrants is probably is the reason why people were against prop 54.

[Ripper 0]

Prop 54 is a nice idea in a sense, but I think don't think people ready for that type of change. Illegal immagrants is probably is the reason why people were against prop 54.

What change, though? Don't most jobs have that box gone anyway. They just need to remove it from school admissions and such and it will be fine. Its not like Califorina has AA or anything that this would affect. The ONLY reason people didn't want this to go through was the illegal immigrant thing...at least thats all I can think of.

[ant_7000 0]

Prop 54 is a nice idea in a sense, but I think don't think people ready for that type of change. Illegal immagrants is probably is the reason why people were against prop 54.

What change, though? Don't most jobs have that box gone anyway. They just need to remove it from school admissions and such and it will be fine. Its not like Califorina has AA or anything that this would affect. The ONLY reason people didn't want this to go through was the illegal immigrant thing...at least thats all I can think of.

Yea, actually some companies do ask you on those surveys that comes with the applications.

[Guest JMA]

I don't like the idea of dividing people into "races" myself. It just separates people. There is only one TRUE race: the human race. This is one of the main reasons that I don't support Affirmative Action.

[NoCalMike 0]

Prop 54 is terrible. However it is worded so well that it sounds like a great idea. It just to ban race-based research, which is stupid because most racist tendencies have been found through race-based research.

[NoCalMike 0]

But fuck them for going to school.

Fuck anyone for going to school on my tax dollars and leeching off the system while they're in this country illegally and getting paid under the table. If someone wants to come to America the right way, then they deserve their piece of the pie at dinner. But anyone who's here illegally who just leeches off the money provided by honest taxpayers is a fucking thief.

What if they are paying taxes? Most immigrant, illegal or not, are working and paying taxes. If we today just went and wiped out every illegal immigrant in California alone, would you be happy and fine that you probably would have a tough time finding many fresh fruits & vegetables in your local grocery store? If you grow your own than I guess this question does not apply. See that is the biggest myth around, that illegal immigrants are just crossing the border, signing up for welfare and state benefits, and living. Immigrants have and are currently doing a lot more for to help the economy than people think. I know there are exceptions to this rule. I know you can probably go look up some article that talks about cases of a few hundred here or there doing exactly the opposite of what I stated, so go ahead if you want to, however it is not the majority.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

But fuck them for going to school.

Fuck anyone for going to school on my tax dollars and leeching off the system while they're in this country illegally and getting paid under the table. If someone wants to come to America the right way, then they deserve their piece of the pie at dinner. But anyone who's here illegally who just leeches off the money provided by honest taxpayers is a fucking thief.

What if they are paying taxes? Most immigrant, illegal or not, are working and paying taxes. If we today just went and wiped out every illegal immigrant in California alone, would you be happy and fine that you probably would have a tough time finding many fresh fruits & vegetables in your local grocery store? If you grow your own than I guess this question does not apply. See that is the biggest myth around, that illegal immigrants are just crossing the border, signing up for welfare and state benefits, and living. Immigrants have and are currently doing a lot more for to help the economy than people think. I know there are exceptions to this rule. I know you can probably go look up some article that talks about cases of a few hundred here or there doing exactly the opposite of what I stated, so go ahead if you want to, however it is not the majority.

There are legal ways to work and live in the US. These people just choose not to do that. Illegal immigrants are just that 'illegal' and they should be deported.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

From what I understand, the main opposition (by the general public) to Prop 54 was because of health reasons. Certain diseases can be traced to certain regions, and are more prominant in some races than others. The best recent example is SARS, which was largely connected to the Chinese community. It is important for the public to know things like this in order to help prevent outbreaks, just as it is vitally important for medical research.

[Ripper 0]

But fuck them for going to school.

Fuck anyone for going to school on my tax dollars and leeching off the system while they're in this country illegally and getting paid under the table. If someone wants to come to America the right way, then they deserve their piece of the pie at dinner. But anyone who's here illegally who just leeches off the money provided by honest taxpayers is a fucking thief.

What if they are paying taxes? Most immigrant, illegal or not, are working and paying taxes. If we today just went and wiped out every illegal immigrant in California alone, would you be happy and fine that you probably would have a tough time finding many fresh fruits & vegetables in your local grocery store? If you grow your own than I guess this question does not apply. See that is the biggest myth around, that illegal immigrants are just crossing the border, signing up for welfare and state benefits, and living. Immigrants have and are currently doing a lot more for to help the economy than people think. I know there are exceptions to this rule. I know you can probably go look up some article that talks about cases of a few hundred here or there doing exactly the opposite of what I stated, so go ahead if you want to, however it is not the majority.

There are legal ways to work and live in the US. These people just choose not to do that. Illegal immigrants are just that 'illegal' and they should be deported.

Becoming a citizen in this country has become EXTREMELY difficult actually. Thats why many don't persue the legal ways, usually get a temporary Visa and just stay.

 

The reason the government honestly doesn't go after Illegals because the make up over a billion dollars put back into our economy every year. To rid this nation of every illegal would do more than a little damage to this country and its economy.

 

I will say this. I live in Atlanta and we have a HUGE mexican immigrant population. I have seen alot of things while living in this city but not once have I seen a Mexican begging for money. I have seen plenty of day workers who are out getting work, but I have yet to see one of these "community killing" immigrants(like some around here call them) begging. That says alot to me.

[NoCalMike 0]

Ok here is another question though. Does your current fiscal situation also have to do with how easy it is to get into the country? I mean I am sure a lot of international actors/actresses get in here with no problem because they are rich and movie stars, where as the migrant worker struggling to put food on the table is shunned and told to go home.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Ok here is another question though. Does your current fiscal situation also have to do with how easy it is to get into the country? I mean I am sure a lot of international actors/actresses get in here with no problem because they are rich and movie stars, where as the migrant worker struggling to put food on the table is shunned and told to go home.

It isn't a question of money, it is a question of skill. It is a huge problem up here with hundreds of thousands of university graduates (usually $50000+ in debt by that point, so money isn't really an issue) heading to the US to work through legal channels. Our federal government pretty much ignores it exists, as it does any bad news. However, since these people provide something that the Americans want, they have no problem accepting them. I have several family members and friends who have found it easier to go and work in the US (legally) then it is to get a job up here in several fields (medical, for example). Quite sad, really.

 

As for unskilled labour, why would the US accept some poor immigrant who will just end up working at McDonalds. The US has plenty of people like that already that can't find jobs, and is too overpopulated as it is.