NPR Ombudsman still getting flak from OReilly bit

[Jobber of the Week 0]

ross vs. O'Reilly: Culture Clash on NPR

 

By Jeffrey A. Dvorkin

Ombudsman

National Public Radio

 

On October 9, Terry Gross, longtime host of NPR's Fresh Air aired her interview with populist political talk show host Bill O'Reilly. The e-mails and phone calls of outrage are still arriving.

 

The interview was taped the day before on October 8. The ostensible reason was to talk about O'Reilly's latest book, Who's Looking Out For You? The book is about, among other things, the claim that America is in the midst of what O'Reilly calls a "cultural war between left and right." And he says the battle is being fought in bookstores by pitting sales of his book against those by liberals.

 

'Openly Hostile!'

 

In the Fresh Air interview, the tone was intense from the beginning. By the end of the interview, O'Reilly said he found Gross' line of questioning objectionable and hostile. He walked out of the interview, but not before he accused Gross of conducting the interview "in attack mode" and "full of typical NPR liberal bias." He also told her to "find another line of work."

 

Knowing that the interview would air the next day, O'Reilly used his October 8 television program to alert his viewers about what would happen the next day on NPR (Bill O'Reilly's Web site[link]).

 

Here is the interview as it aired on NPR's Fresh Air.[link]

 

As Gross mentioned in the interview, Bill O'Reilly was invited on Fresh Air in part because of his new book. She began by asking O'Reilly to respond to accusations made against him in a book by Al Franken, the politically liberal comedian. Franken's book, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right, is devoted in part to going after O'Reilly's credibility and his conservative opinions. In his book and on Fresh Air, Franken accuses O'Reilly of mistakes, distortions and outright lies.

 

Gross interviewed Franken two weeks previously on her program.[link]

 

For some listeners, the interview with O'Reilly was a continuation of Franken's anti-conservative and anti-O'Reilly attacks.

 

'Biased and Prejudicial... '

 

Listener Michael Moritz's e-mail was typical of the more restrained comments:

 

NPR, you're not going to like this, but I have to say that O'Reilly... was correct: throughout the first 50 minutes of the interview, Terry Gross was clearly focused on discussing the popular left-wing (mis)perception of O'Reilly, misguided though it is, and not substantively dealing with his new book. I thought her interview was extremely biased and prejudicial. I was very disappointed with her transparently obvious agenda -- she's usually much more capable.

 

From Daniel Kennedy:

 

Terry needs to apologize to Bill for that interview. She's a much better interviewer than what I just heard from her. I was embarrassed for her. Bill worked up a real head of steam at the end, but he had taken it for long enough. We never did really hear about his book... P.S. I like BOTH of their shows and listen/watch when I get a chance.

 

'Bullying... hostility'

 

Robert Black was one of the few who thought Terry Gross' interview worked:

 

Thank you for the excellent O'Reilly interview. He quickly demonstrated his bullying tactics and hostility, proving himself to be an ass.

 

In my opinion, Terry Gross did a very tough interview. It was quite unlike many interviews on NPR where the tone is civil but often unchallenging of the guest.

 

Danny Miller is the executive producer of Fresh Air. I asked him if he thought the critics have a point:

 

Terry was tough on O'Reilly, not unfair. And I think O'Reilly drove the interview directly towards the conclusion he was hoping for. He was looking to BUTT heads. He's obviously still really steamed that the case against Franken was thrown out of court -- and came to our interview with the expressed goal of demonstrating his belief that NPR has a liberal bias, and that Fresh Air (like Franken) was out to defame him. On his own show he said: "I'll go on this program [Fresh Air] just to show you what they do, to expose what they do. Cause I knew what was going to happen... " It's pretty difficult to for an interviewer to maintain a high level of rapport with someone who wants to prove that you're out to get them.

 

O'Reilly is one of the most controversial and powerful broadcasters in the country -- Terry asked him about how he uses that power to pursue issues, and settle scores with his critics. Terry wouldn't have been doing her job if she didn't address that (which is why she brought up the Janet Maslin and People magazine pieces). And O'Reilly is smart enough to know it.

 

Even so, I agree with the listeners who complained about the tone of the interview: Her questions were pointed from the beginning. She went after O'Reilly using critical quotes from the Franken book and a New York Times book review. That put O'Reilly at his most prickly and defensive mode, and Gross was never able to get him back into the interview in an effective way. This was surprising because Terry Gross is, in my opinion, one of the best interviewers anywhere in American journalism.

 

Although O'Reilly frequently resorts to bluster and bullying on his own show, he seemed unable to take her tough questions. He became angrier as the interview went along. But by coming across as a pro-Franken partisan rather than a neutral and curious journalist, Gross did almost nothing that might have allowed the interview to develop.

 

By the time the interview was about halfway through, it felt as though Terry Gross was indeed "carrying Al Franken's water," as some listeners say. It was not about O'Reilly's ideas, or his attitudes or even about his book. It was about O'Reilly as political media phenomenon. That's a legitimate subject for discussion, but in this case, it was an interview that was, in the end, unfair to O'Reilly.

 

The "Empty Chair" Interview

 

Finally, an aspect of the interview that I found particularly disturbing: It happened when Terry Gross was about to read a criticism of Bill O'Reilly's book from People magazine. Before Gross could read it to him for his reaction, O'Reilly ended the interview and walked out of the studio. She read the quote anyway.

 

That was wrong. O'Reilly was not there to respond. It's known in broadcasting as the "empty chair" interview, and it is considered an unethical technique and should not be used on NPR.

 

I believe the listeners were not well served by this interview. It may have illustrated the "cultural wars" that seem to be flaring in the country. Unfortunately, the interview only served to confirm the belief, held by some, in NPR's liberal media bias.

 

It left the impression that there was something not quite right about the reasons behind this program: Bill O'Reilly often loves to use NPR as his own personal political piñata; and NPR keeps helping him by inviting him to appear.

 

A letter to Terry Gross from Prof. Rosa Maria Pegueros summed it up well:

 

I have been enjoying and learning from your show for more years than I can count, but I have to make one small criticism. Please consider it a word from a friend.

 

I was astonished that you had Fox's Bill O'Reilly on. I have never been able to tolerate more than a few moments of his programs. Having had a few students who came in quoting him and putting his opinions in their papers, I do know his opinions, but all his on-air shouting is unsupportable. That being said, I really think you were baiting him. Not that what you were saying was wrong or inaccurate but I had to wonder what possessed you to choose him? I guess one could say that he walked into enemy territory but I think it couldn't end any other way. Either you were going to corner him and make him admit the things that have been written about him or he was going to walk out once he realized what you were doing. I heard you do something similar with Gene Simmons. I can't believe that you didn't know how he'd react to your questions.

 

These louts and loudmouths deserve being embarrassed in public, I guess. But to hear you do it is somewhat unsettling. I would expect that if YOU ever went on his program, he'd do something similar to you. I guess what I'm saying is that I expect them to be that way and am generally glad that you aren't.

 

Listeners can contact me at 202-513-3245 or by email at [email protected].

 

Jeffrey Dvorkin

NPR Ombudsman

 

http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ombudsman/2003/031015.html

[Styles 0]

The left wing media hates Oreilly because he connects to the common people who like his "no spin" honest take on things and they see it as a threat to their own power and influence. The beautiful thing is everytime he says something about them they just go ahead and prove it true and make themselves look worse like in situations like this.

[Firestarter 0]

Feh. O'Reilly just proved that although he can dish it out he'll scream like a maddened infant with a soiled diaper if he's forced to take it. I listened to the entire interview and at the end he was just pathetic. As for the "empty chair" shit, give me a break. She'd already brought up the article and after O'Reilly stomped out in a tearing impotent rage she had every right to finish addressing the point. Especially as his final actions on the show proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. O'Reilly was slaughtered, flayed, dissected, and put on display.

 

Go, Terry!

[Ripper 0]

The left wing media hates Oreilly because he connects to the common people who like his "no spin" honest take on things and they see it as a threat to their own power and influence. The beautiful thing is everytime he says something about them they just go ahead and prove it true and make themselves look worse like in situations like this.

Heh...thats funny.

 

Most people I know hate Bill with a passion due to him not being able to go 5 minutes without proving himself to be a total hypocrite, and for him to have the audacity to say someone tried to bully HIM on a interview and it was unfair and unprofessional is laughable.

[Firestarter 0]

The "No-Spin Zone" tagline is fucking hilarious. O'Reilly's utterly deluded if he thinks it's true, or a completely shameless hypocrite if he knows it's not.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Regardless of O'Reilly, please don't give NPR a free pass.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The left wing media hates Oreilly because he connects to the common people who like his "no spin" honest take on things and they see it as a threat to their own power and influence.

........And this is the part where we all laugh..... Right?

 

 

 

 

 

RIGHT!?!?!?!

[Firestarter 0]

Regardless of O'Reilly, please don't give NPR a free pass.

Don't give NPR a free pass? Bah. When they turn their guns on O'Reilly and his ilk, I head the goddamn cheerleading squad. Terry's "free pass" is in the mail, and entitles her to one solid hour of oral sex, a bottle of Dom Perignon '85, and a full body massage in my locker room.

[Vyce 0]

NPR deserves no pass.

 

They're easily as bad as many claim FAUX NEWS LOL 2003!!!!! to be.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Terry's "free pass" is in the mail, and entitles her to one solid hour of oral sex, a bottle of Dom Perignon '85, and a full body massage in my locker room.

O'Reilly Sucks!

 

Can I get a free pass?

[Guest Cerebus]

Pot.

Kettle.

Black.

[Firestarter 0]

Terry's "free pass" is in the mail, and entitles her to one solid hour of oral sex, a bottle of Dom Perignon '85, and a full body massage in my locker room.

O'Reilly Sucks!

 

Can I get a free pass?

Nice try. <g>

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Ahhh, this topic rose from the dead!

 

*beats it back down into the dirt with a shovel*

 

Die! Die! Die!...

[Guest jpclemmons]

[Styles 0]

Look, whether you or your friends like him or not, he gets huge ratings and is the most popular of the news personalities, so obviously he appeals to a broad demographic...

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

...of asshats.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Of which I am proudly one...

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

...asshat.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Why should he not be pissed though? He went on a show to promote something and the interviewer was more interested in discussing someone else's book.

 

I'd be just as pissed as he was.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

...asshat.  

Well I for one wear my asshat backwards because that's how us thugs in the street do it. (It's a black thing -- you wouldn't understand. Well, OK, maybe Ripper would.)

 

Now this is the part of the post where I would make a joke about how big a Mikey Moore asshat would be, and how the sheer weight of it would crush anyone unlucky enough to wear one, but I got some scores to screw up, err I mean calculate, in my NFL contest and don't have time to make a OMG MOORE *fill in the blank* LOL 2003! remark.

 

Chiefs, blow this lead and I will be pissed...

Edited October 21, 2003 by kkktookmybabyaway

[Jingus 0]

Having heard many, many of Terry Gross's interviews on Fresh Air, let me assure you all that she is much less aggressive and hostile towards her subjects than O'Reilly ever is. She never shouts them down or calls them stupid or wrong, which is something Bill does all the damn time on his show. Claiming that this interview (which I did listen to) was unfair is completely ludicrous.

 

All that being said, O'Reilly did say a couple of things that did surprise me, like that he was anti-death penalty and pro-legalization of marijuana. Unexpected, to say the least.

[Guest JMA]

Look, whether you or your friends like him or not, he gets huge ratings and is the most popular of the news personalities, so obviously he appeals to a broad demographic...

He appeals to the lowest common denominator. He's just another asshole who wraps himself in the flag and claims to want to help regular people. Basically, he panders to blue-collar people and blind patriots. He also claims to be a moderate, when he's clearly conservative.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, blatant NPR bias has reared it's ugly head again.

 

 

 

----

 

TERRY GROSS: One of the more controversial things in the rap world is the use of the word "bitch" all the time.

 

TRIUMPH THE INSULT COMIC DOG: Here we go again!

 

GROSS: Exactly, now it's a word you use a lot in the dog world.

 

TRIUMPH: It's a word that, look, it's a word that everyone uses in the dog world. It's a bitch. A girl is a bitch. Now should a dog be offended to be called a woman? I don't think any dog would be offended. Not even Benji. That's right, you heard me, Benji's gay. It's time people knew that.

 

GROSS: Do you feel that you have been sexist or condescending in your treatment of female dogs?

 

TRIUMPH: Holy christ! Listen to this! Let me ask you something: I feel like I'm being bombarded here. I know what's happening here. I know what's happening here. Did you ask the same questions to Kermit The Frog? Did you?

 

GROSS: Kermit The Frog didn't do our show. He didn't do our show.

 

TRIUMPH: Allright well, okay, well how about the time Beethoven did your show. Did you challenge him the way you're challenging me?

 

GROSS: It was a different kind of interview.

 

TRIUMPH: It was a different kind of-- Okay! Yeah, I can get what's going on here.

 

GROSS: Beethoven's funny, no it's different.

 

TRIUMPH: Oh, is that right? It's satire what Beethoven does. Yes, I'm just... You know, I can't believe the government is paying for this interview. That's what I can't believe. You know? My money, which could be going to Pekanese hookers, are instead going to this public radio that's obviously more slanted than my *bleep* after I've *bleep* a Saint Bernard. What are we talking about?

 

GROSS: Triumph, I don't think you're being fair and I think if you gave public radio a chance you wouldn't feel that way. Because I think public radio has always been fair to the dog world.

 

TRIUMPH: I'm trying to give it a chance but you keep bombarding me. You keep bombarding me. I'm evaluating this interview very closely, is what I'm doing. This is just ten minutes of defamation. Seventy minutes in dog years.

 

GROSS: *laughs*

 

TRIUMPH: You think it's fair, Terry? You need to get into another business! That's right, good. This is all going to be fodder for Harpers magazine, for Dog Fancy magazine, which I know is a liberally... There's liberal publishers of Dog Fancy, I mean that thing is like gay porn anyway.

 

GROSS: Well, Triumph I don't think you're being fair and I'm going to change the subject.

 

TRIUMPH: Good. I'm not going to walk out of this interview. I'm not going to do that. I'm better than that. But I'm going to take a poop right now. I'm going to poop in this studio right now.

 

TERRY: I don't think that's fair. I think you should control yourself.

 

TRIUMPH: Well, it's already happening. I ate a burrito before the interview. I came prepared for this.

 

Link to episode. The arguement begins at approximately 12:30.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

What part am I supposed to laugh at?...

[BX 0]

Look, whether you or your friends like him or not, he gets huge ratings and is the most popular of the news personalities, so obviously he appeals to a broad demographic...

The same demographic that made a little known mayor from Cincinatti a made man.

 

Here's a hint. His name starts with "J", and ends with "erry Springer"

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What part am I supposed to laugh at?...

Kilborn fan, eh?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Oh hell no. Kilborn is the only one of the "Late Night 5" that I can't stand.

 

However, it probably isn't my taste of humor -- although I usually laugh whenever Triumph is around.

 

Now THIS makes me laugh. Anybody care to take a swing at the softball I'm lobbing here?...

 

From Michael Dukakis: "Whoever the Democratic nominee will, in my judgment, be subjected to a brutal attack campaign by Bush," Dukakis said. "This is the worst national administration I’ve ever lived under, bar none. I want this guy out of there."

[Guest JMA]

Man, O'Reilly has some serious anger issues. Every time he gets into an argument he comes off looking like an asshole and bully. People like Franken and Gross expose him as the liar and shill he is. The sad thing is, he falls into the same trap EVERY time.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I was going to say "can't argue with the truth" but technically it's an opinion.

 

 

<- (Still can't believe some people actually LIKE Bush Jr, though)

[Vern Gagne 0]

Most people aren't commie hippies like you.