Loria pledges no fire sale

[Mik 0]

NEW YORK -- They gathered in the final dogpile of the baseball season and passed the World Series trophy around a champagne-soaked clubhouse much like six years earlier, but this wasn't 1997 all over again for the Florida Marlins.

 

Better yet for Marlins fans, this doesn't look like it will be 1998 all over again.

 

In '97, the Marlins went out and acquired several big-time players for one specific purpose: to win the World Series. But once they did, the Wayne Huizenga ownership went and cast the veteran core of talent to all points of the baseball globe -- Kevin Brown to San Diego, Gary Sheffield to the Dodgers, Moises Alou to Houston, Al Leiter to the Mets, and the list goes on.

 

It was a freefall from the World Series to a 108-loss season in 1998, a devastating blow from which South Florida baseball is only now recovering, thanks to the surprising uprising of the Marlins this October.

 

While still soaking in the champagne of '03, current owner Jeffrey Loria made it sound like 2004 will be much different than 1998.

 

"We're going to sit down and do all the things we have to do to address all that after the season, but right now I just want to enjoy this," Loria said. "I'll say this: The fans of South Florida have a lot of great baseball to look forward to."

 

Exactly how the Marlins get there is what's up in the air at this point.

 

Keeping this team together would be a monumental task, considering there are 15 arbitration-eligible players -- including corner infielders Mike Lowell and Derrek Lee -- and nine free agents -- including Pudge Rodriguez and Luis Castillo -- among the players who spent time in Marlins uniforms this season. Only Jeff Conine and Juan Pierre are under contract for '04, but youngsters like Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera are under the team's control, still shy of their arbitration years.

 

"We have very good young players, and we have some challenges ahead with some arbitration-eligible players and some free agents," said GM Larry Beinfest, the toast of his profession after crafting this team into a World Series winner. "We're going to get to that. This year, we did not have multi-year deals, but we studied the players and that isn't a hard-and-fast philosophy.

 

"We'll look at everything in the next few days as things calm down and figure out how we'll get ready for '04."

 

It's going to be a serious juggling act for Loria, Beinfest and the rest of the Marlins' braintrust -- which should include manager Jack McKeon, who wants to come back but also wouldn't mind being paid something along the lines of what World Series-winning managers are paid.

 

Keeping it all together isn't a guarantee of success (see: 2002-2003 Angels). It's apparent there will be turnover in Florida, just not of the caliber of the fire sale following '97.

 

Right now, there are just too many moving parts to even guess how it'll turn out. Will they be able to sign Rodriguez back after he proved himself a highly marketable player with his one-year, $10 million deal with Florida? Can they keep the brilliant double-play combination of Castillo and shortstop Alex Gonzalez intact? How big a hit can they take on Lowell and Lee, and can they even risk going to arbitration with either one?

 

As for the youngsters, is this the time to pull the trick Oakland has done and Cleveland before the A's by signing young players like Series MVP Beckett through their arbitration years, so at least they can control their budget in coming years?

 

Keeping everybody just isn't going to happen. For the moment, just keeping the philosophy that got them here and building on it is the goal.

 

"The way you do it is with pitching," Beinfest said in the victorious clubhouse Saturday night. "That's the solid philosophy we have. It was on display tonight (with Beckett's shutout) and in the whole run to the postseason. This team took off in June when we started to pitch."

 

With that strong base of pitching -- in particular, a young and deep rotation that's the envy of everyone outside of Oakland -- combined with a strong defense and a twist of speed, such a rare commodity these days, the Marlins turned the baseball world on its ear this October.

 

And for eight glorious postseason games and a run of regular-season battles with the Wild Card berth on the line, the fans in South Florida came out in droves again, pushing Pro Player Stadium's huge capacity time and time again. But let's not forget that they drew only 37,137 for Opening Day and only 10,534 for the second home game. The fever only caught on down the stretch of what would be a successful playoff run.

 

Keeping the fans coming will have to mean keeping the team competitive and exciting. The Marlins have the foundation to do that, but it'll take a busy winter of maneuvering to put all the pieces together.

 

Marlins fans were fooled once before, and even if it was a different regime the sting remained for years.

 

At least now it looks like the Marlins are in a spot where their fans won't have to be fooled again.

 

---------

Now will you all finally shut the fuck up? I told you to wait and see!

[Fökai 0]

Until they...you know...SIGN the players to contracts, Loria's "promise" means nothing.

 

And anyway...

 

Keeping this team together would be a monumental task, considering there are 15 arbitration-eligible players -- including corner infielders Mike Lowell and Derrek Lee -- and nine free agents -- including Pudge Rodriguez and Luis Castillo -- among the players who spent time in Marlins uniforms this season. Only Jeff Conine and Juan Pierre are under contract for '04, but youngsters like Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera are under the team's control, still shy of their arbitration years.

 

I agree about the fire sale not coming around this time, but they're bound to lose a good chunk of their young team.

 

Free agents:

Luis Castillo, 2B;

Andy Fox, 2B;

Chad Fox, RHP;

Lenny Harris, 3B;

Rick Helling, RHP;

Todd Hollandsworth, OF;

Mike Mordecai, 3B;

Ivan Rodriguez, C;

Ugueth Urbina, RHP;

Gerald Williams, OF.

[the pinjockey 0]

"We're going to sit down and do all the things we have to do to address all that after the season, but right now I just want to enjoy this," Loria said. "I'll say this: The fans of South Florida have a lot of great baseball to look forward to."

Wow, what a statement that you are going to resign all your players. Wait what do you mean you don't see that anywhere in the paragraph?

 

There may not be a fire sale, but unless they decide to bump up the payroll big time, there is no way they will keep everyone.

 

Lowell and Lee are going to get hefty raises in arbitration. Someone, somewhere will overpay Castillo and Urbina. And after this year, I think, Pudge can get a multiyear deal this time. So they will have to decide on a big contract for him.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Pudge won't be back. Everyone went on about how happy he was there and I'm sure that's true, but money obviously talks when it comes to where Pudge plays and after the season he had, he'll be asking for a lot. I think him not even saying he'd be back in that interview after they won the WS should show that he's already thinking about leaving. I mean, he didn't even give any lip service saying he'd like to stay, he just said he didn't know.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

as the resident baseball guru I'll let ya know that Castillo won't be back and they're going to trade Encarnacion in a salary dump because they have Cabrera to fill RF and it will allow them to keep Lowell and Lee. Pudge will be a big question mark but he said he does love it there...Texas was offering him about $6mill per which was an insult, but if the Marlins offer him what he made and incentives I could see him staying.

 

Urbina will become a Yankee as George is already on the loose. I'll post the NY news article in a second

[Guest BobbyWhioux]

You'll forgive me if I don't have absolute trust and faith in the words coming out of an owner's mouth -- especially Loria's -- in regards to resigning players and not breaking a team up.

 

I do however think that Loria recognizes that he has to put a winning/competitive team on the field in order to draw fans -- and revenue -- and thus will make a legitimate effort at resigning some of the players. And I doubt that he will be so arrogant as to "punish" the peasants by dismantling the team should they fail to vote to heavily tax themselves to build a monument stadium to him the feudal baseball lord, since we all saw how well that backfired for Herr Huizenga. I would think that he realizes a new stadium requires fan support, and that fan support is contingent on fielding a team that can at the least contend.

 

But after all, none of us are psychic. We'll see what happens. And always remember rule #1: Never Underestimate The Other Guy's Greed (This can apply to Loria, this can apply to other owners, this can apply to the free agent players themselves).

[Dr. Tom 0]

Free agents:

Luis Castillo, 2B;

Andy Fox, 2B;

Chad Fox, RHP;

Lenny Harris, 3B;

Rick Helling, RHP;

Todd Hollandsworth, OF;

Mike Mordecai, 3B;

Ivan Rodriguez, C;

Ugueth Urbina, RHP;

Gerald Williams, OF.

Looking at that list, the only players they need back are Pudge, Castillo, and Urbina. Urbina's the least necessary of the three, but since he's proven to be more reliable than Braden Looper, he should be brought back. I can see Encarnacion getting shipped out to cut costs, with the hope that Cabrera's really the answer. The payroll will have to expand some, but the Marlins should try to bring as many key players back as they can. They can't afford the negative publicity of another fire sale, especially with Loria already enjoying a sketchy reputation.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

well as far as hitting goes they're comparing Cabrera to Manny Ramirez, saying he could have that kind of power one day...and he's a good fielder. Being only 20 and seeing what he can do now...he's going to be down right frightening in 4 years.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Two words to watch out for, though: sophomore slump. Sure, it looks the kid has the goods, but let's see how he holds up for a full MLB season before we beatify him.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

And if the Marlins can even hope to retain a fraction of their team, local fans better start attending more games...

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

I think Castillo may have played himself back into the Marlin's salary range, they won depsite him in the playoffs.

 

If the Yanks want Urbina they get him, and Pudge didn't sound too keen on coming back for cheap. That leaves Lee, and though god damn did he play some sweet ass first base, isn't a key player.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

2003 Marlins Win Shares

 

With Miguel Cabrera around they can probably to afford to lose Mike Lowell. Luis Castillo is a tough one, because he'll be super tough to replace in the infield. Same for Ivan Rodriguez. Its doubtful the Marlins will raise their payroll, and most of their young players will get raises in arbitration.

[Mik 0]

I really, really think Pudge is going to stay. As I stated earlier, if Castillo and Urbina leave, that's quite alright.

 

Keep one thing in mind...AJ Burnett should be ready by next June. That's the equivalent of one giant free agent signing.

 

And the pitchers will all be one year more matured, and something deep inside tells me that Beckett will muster more than 9 wins. The Marlins might not make it back to the world series, but they should finish above .500 and challenge for the wild card yet again, IMO.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

MIAMI -- An agreement has been made that if a new stadium is built for the World Series champion Marlins, the team would change its name to the Miami Marlins, according to a published report.

 

The Miami Herald reported in Thursday's edition that Miami-Dade County and Miami city officials requested the change.

 

"It was something [Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria] and I had no problem with," Loria's son-in-law David Samson told the paper. "It was not a negotiating point." 

 

The World Series champion Florida Marlins and Miami-Dade County announced Tuesday a plan to fund $210 million in hopes of a new stadium that would open in 2007.

 

The new park, which would hold 38,000 seats, is expected to have a retractable roof and would cost $325 million, but that does not include the land for the new stadium.

 

Florida is set to commit $137 million and the county will shell out $73 million coming from convention development tax proceeds and professional sports franchise facility tax money.

 

The Marlins and the county have not yet decided where the remaining $115 million will come from.

 

The announcement was made about one hour after the Marlins celebrated their World Championship with a daylong parade through the streets of Miami.

 

The resolution will be voted on Nov. 4 by the county commission.

 

Hmm. The Miami Marlins.. Smell the alliteration!

 

And a 38,000 seat retractable domed stadium? Thats a bit smallish..

[Guest Choken One]

Think Tampa will pay the Devil Rays to take OFF the TB name?

[treble 0]

Hopefully this is still the plan for the Marlins' new park, since it looks pretty damn cool.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Pretty spiffy. Maybe Vince will consider having WrestleMania 24 There in 2008. I still think 38,000 seats for a retractable roof stadium is small, but maybe they are going fora cozy feeling type atmosphere.

[The Czech Republic 0]

They should be the Miami Marlins. State names should only be used when you don't want to alienate one of two major cities in your market (Minnesota in place of Minneapolis, Golden State in place of Oakland), the city name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, (Salt Lake City Jazz), or you're the Angels. Anaheim? Come on.

 

That being said, "Boston Patriots" should make a return also.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I really, really think Pudge is going to stay.

Riiiiiight.

 

And the Pirates are going to win the NL Central next year....

[sfaJack 0]

Pretty spiffy.  Maybe Vince will consider having WrestleMania 24 There in 2008.  I still think 38,000 seats for a retractable roof stadium is small, but maybe they are going fora cozy feeling type atmosphere.

Why build a 40,000+ seat stadium if no one is going to go to the games? It isn't as if the Marlins have ever had record-setting attendance or anything.

 

Hell, the only time they've ever averaged more than 30,000 a game was in their first year, 1993. What is the appeal of having such a big stadium if at least 10-15,000 of the seats sit empty every night? It looks terrible.

[MrRant 0]

I really, really think Pudge is going to stay.

Riiiiiight.

 

And the Pirates are going to win the NL Central next year....

HAHAHAAHAHA~!

 

Pirate fan.

[Guest Choken One]

Pretty spiffy.  Maybe Vince will consider having WrestleMania 24 There in 2008.  I still think 38,000 seats for a retractable roof stadium is small, but maybe they are going fora cozy feeling type atmosphere.

Why build a 40,000+ seat stadium if no one is going to go to the games? It isn't as if the Marlins have ever had record-setting attendance or anything.

 

Hell, the only time they've ever averaged more than 30,000 a game was in their first year, 1993. What is the appeal of having such a big stadium if at least 10-15,000 of the seats sit empty every night? It looks terrible.

15,000 in a 40,000 seater looks better then 15,000 in a 65,000 and with less seats=More costly prices=More profit.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

HAHAHAAHAHA~!

 

Pirate fan.

Oh heck no.

 

I'm from Pittsburgh, but I don't cheer my hometown teams just because I live near them (although I do like the Rooneys).

 

Pirates are a freaking joke, and after their recent fire sale this season, I was praying that they would end up being only 1-2 games out of first just so all the fans in the area could grumble because the team was dismantled when they had a chance to win.

 

Glad to see PNC Park has made them more competitive...

[Guest FrigidSoul]

They should be the Miami Marlins. State names should only be used when you don't want to alienate one of two major cities in your market (Minnesota in place of Minneapolis, Golden State in place of Oakland), the city name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, (Salt Lake City Jazz), or you're the Angels. Anaheim? Come on.

 

That being said, "Boston Patriots" should make a return also.

The Pats aren't in Boston anymore though. If anything they would have to be the Foxborough Patriots...and that sounds craptacular

[sfaJack 0]

15,000 in a 40,000 seater looks better then 15,000 in a 65,000 and with less seats=More costly prices=More profit.

Yes, of course 15,000 in a 40,000 seat stadium looks better than in a 65,000 seat stadium. No one ever said otherwise and they'd be a damn fool to try.

 

I was just saying that Marvin's contention that 38,000 is "small" is a little off-base specifically because of the fact that the Marlins only draw 15,000 a game. A stadium that "small" is preferable when your fans hardly ever fill it up.

 

The Marlins have got to get out of Pro Player because it isn't really a baseball park (though I do like watching the outfielders chase balls down in that HUGE outfield) and because of the fact that it's embarrassing to have to see that many empty seats all the time.

[Dogbert 0]

Thank God ol' Jeffy didn't want to move them, or else Mik here would have some dark days ahead, like the ones I've had since he bought the Expos.

 

I said it before, I'll say it again. FUCK JEFFREY LORIA.

[sfaJack 0]

Glad to see PNC Park has made them more competitive...

Your tax dollars at work, huh?

 

A lot of the whiny Astros' fans here are bitching because Drayton McLane won't raise the payroll above its current $70-75 mil threshold, despite giving him Orange Juice Train Park 4 years ago. He promised to spend more money and make them a winner if he got it and hasn't really done so, and it's starting to piss a lot of people off. All teams do it, though; they just want their new parks so they can jack up ticket prices.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Glad to see PNC Park has made them more competitive...

Your tax dollars at work, huh?

I live 6 HOURS from Pittsburgh and my tax dollars pay for that stadium.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

15,000 in a 40,000 seater looks better then 15,000 in a 65,000 and with less seats=More costly prices=More profit.

Yes, of course 15,000 in a 40,000 seat stadium looks better than in a 65,000 seat stadium. No one ever said otherwise and they'd be a damn fool to try.

 

I was just saying that Marvin's contention that 38,000 is "small" is a little off-base specifically because of the fact that the Marlins only draw 15,000 a game. A stadium that "small" is preferable when your fans hardly ever fill it up.

 

The Marlins have got to get out of Pro Player because it isn't really a baseball park (though I do like watching the outfielders chase balls down in that HUGE outfield) and because of the fact that it's embarrassing to have to see that many empty seats all the time.

The main reason why the Marlins don't draw is because just about every day theres a storm or a chance of one. In the retractable roof stadium, Im sure they would draw well. And my contention of it being small is because low seating compacity and dome/retractable roof don't really go together. Safeco holds close to 48,000, Minute Maid Park holds 42,000 and the BOB holds close to 48,000 as well.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Glad to see PNC Park has made them more competitive...

Your tax dollars at work, huh?

I live 6 HOURS from Pittsburgh and my tax dollars pay for that stadium.

 

I live in the county next to Pittsburgh's -- thank God.

 

What's really disgusting about Pittsburgh's stadium story is that back in the mid-to-late 1990s there was a huge effort to have Allegheny County (home of Pittsburgh) and several other counties crate a half-cent sales tax to fund the stadiums. That referendum went down in flames, and this movement's supporters, including the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (which owned a small stake in the Pirates *coughconlflictofinterestcough*) said it was all over and the Pirates and Steelers were going to move.

 

Of course, none of this happened, and the stadiums still got built. So all these downright childish Chicken Little predictions were discredited.

 

I don’t object Pittsburgh building these two stadiums. I wouldn’t have objected if both team would have moved to a more profitable location. I do have a problem with how city/regional “leaders” and certain media outlets handled the situation.

 

And of course now Pittsburgh is bankrupt -- but they have two purty ballparks...