More Torch News.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

MORE NEWS:

 

- The part of Vince's Smackdown promo that raised some eyebrows wasn't so much the raping and the kidnaping as much as the burning down of Taker's house, because some people thought that was insensitive considering the fires in California. Rey and RVD both have homes near the fires. Rey's is really close to it.

 

- It's assumed that HBK will be the 5th man on Team Austin, making it Booker, RVD, HBK, and the Dudleys. Team Bischoff is Jericho, Steiner, Christian, Mark Henry, and the 5th spot wasn't for sure yet. It was going to be Test, but they aren't sure if he'll be able to carry his end with the broken foot. It still could be him, though.

 

On Smackdown, A-Train will join Brock's team, with John Cena joining the babyface side to replace Faarooq. Man, they should have put Rhyno and Scotty 2 Hotty with Angle and Benoit and Bob Holly, and then they could have the neck fusion all-stars.

 

TNA NEWZ:

 

- A wrestler finally had bad things to say about Dutch Mantel. "I haven't been impressed with him at all," said the guy. He noted that the booking hadn't changed at all since Dutch came in, but Dutch isn't really booking, he's just tweaking and helping with match finishes. People say he's the man in charge, though, not counting the Jarrett's.

 

- There was no formal announcement from TNA to the wrestlers about the big PPV being canceled. Word had spread about the situation and Hogan's injury, but some of the wrestlers thought that an official comment from the office would be nice.

 

- There was speculation that Terry Funk would be coming in as part of the Jimmy Hart angle where he brings in guys to beat up Jeff Jarrett.

 

- Russo wasn't at this past week's show, and wrestlers aren't sure of his status. It was assumed that he'd stay backstage until Hogan came in, but he wasn't. So who knows.

 

CLASSIC TORCH:

 

- Bruce wrote a column wondering what Hogan would do now that he seemed done with the WWF. WCW held Halloween Havoc, with a Cactus/Vader main event, where only one match on the show ended with a clean finish.

 

MORE CLASSIC TORCH:

 

- Arn and Sid stabbed each other, and Vince and Dr. Zahorian were on the cover of New York Newsday as word of the Justice Dept. investigation went public. It was a big week. Madden wrote a column calling for Sid to be fired.

 

ON TOPIC WITH JASON POWELL:

 

He talks about MLW and their problems. Michael Hayes ought to be fired, or at least given the "go to rehab or else" ultimatum that others have gotten. The wedding was hardly the first incident where he's been a drunken ass.

 

One wrestler who was there wanted Hayes to be fired, saying that the wedding was a very classy affair and that Michael's antics "made me – and others – embarrassed to be in the wrestling business". Yeah, cause a guy getting drunk and acting like an idiot at the reception is exclusive to the wrestling business. Something like that would never happen at a normal wedding.

 

RAVEN KEEPS TALKING:

 

Boy, he's got a lot to say this week.

 

Does he think Vince saw much of ECW?

 

"I don't think he saw any of it. I don't think he saw anything of anything. I remember when I was producing, when I was an associate producer on Raw, we did a radio show. Which, once Vince stopped doing it and it was just me and Stan Lane and we stopped talking about wrestling and just made it funny to entertain me and Stan, it was a really good show. It was so good to the point that Shawn Michaels wanted to come to the studio and do it live with us, which he did. The boys never want to do anything wrestling-related in their free time, but it was really entertaining. Anyway, we had to meet there around 6 o'clock and WCW would be on. So Vince would glance back and forth at the TV. I remember he really liked Johnny B. Badd and I forget who else. I always got the sense that Vince didn't watch the other stuff. I don't know why. Maybe he had no time. Let's face it, the guy's got eight billion things to do. Maybe he didn't want to put over the competition. Who knows what it was? I just never got the sense that he watched it. I honestly don't even think he knew I was in WCW because I left him to go to ECW and I was in ECW when I came back to him. I think he thinks I was there the whole time and I think he saw me as a guy who was a big star in a small promotion and didn't realize I was a huge contributing factor – that's not the right word. I was a huge supporting player on WCW. I don't even think he realized that."

 

Is Vince right to judge wrestlers on what he sees first-hand, and not taking into account success that they've had elsewhere?

 

"Yes and no. Look, it doesn't matter what you did anywhere else, you have to produce here and now. But I don't think that's always necessarily so. A lot of guys who were over other places, he took them because they were over other places even though they sucked. So I don't necessarily agree with the premise of your question that he did do that."

 

Which WWE wrestlers does he regret not working with?

 

"The Rock. Oh, my God, I would have loved to work with The Rock. Now that I'm a babyface, I always thought I'd love to work with Rock as a heel because I always thought he was one of the greatest bumping heels. I so much more enjoyed him as a heel than a babyface, but I think he had to become a babyface because he was so big, there's no way they were going to boo him, at least at that time frame. He was always a better heel than he was a babyface, in my opinion. Hunter, and not because I want to suck up to him. The Hunter now – not that I wouldn't want to work with him, because he's the champ – but the Hunter before he blew out his quad, I thought he was the best worker in the history of the business. I thought he was that good. I genuinely believe and I've always said that, and not because I want to work there or get a job, because I've always bit the hand that feeds me, so I have no problem burying someone. But he was at that point the best worker in the business, period. I thought he was better than Bret, I thought he was better than Shawn. His wrestling was more realistic. I've always been about the selling. To me that's the real art form, because all the flip-flops, that's acrobatics. Selling is something that anybody could do, but very few people do it well.

 

You don't have to be an acrobat or a great athlete to be a good seller. Acrobatics is completely genetic, but you can become a good seller through sheer hard work. To me, there is nothing better than a great seller. Ricky Steamboat, back in the day, phenomenal. At the end of his run, I thought he was too much like William Shattner – too big. There's an art form to it. Hunter was just so damn good for that period of time, for that one or two year period, he was just brilliant. What he did that no one else did, and it irritates me to no end, he would go back to the sell. Bret Hart, as good as he was, once he took over, he stopped selling because it was his turn then. If you were working his arm for five minutes, then he'd cut you off and go into the heat, he's not selling the arm anymore. I've always gone back and sold the arm. Hunter always went back and sold the arm. You knew for the next couple of minutes he would remind you it was damaged. If you ever got the chance to get back on the arm, the guy was gonna have the chance. Shawn didn't do that, either. Shawn was phenomenal, don't get me wrong. But Hunter during that time frame was the best there was."

 

Why don't dudes sell? Cause they don't get it, or they're selfish and they won't?

 

"They don't get it. I want to punch them in the face. It infuriates me. To me, this whole business is based on selling. The people can't feel it, they can only see it. So it doesn't matter whether you're squeezing a guy as hard as you can or barely touching him. I mean, the whole art form of this business is to make it look as realistic as possible and make it as painless as possible, which always makes me laugh about Japan. I showed my buddy a Japan tape and he goes "I could do that. They hit each other for real."

 

Where's the art form in that? Granted, it takes a certain kind of discipline to be able to take that kind of beating, but that's not what this business is supposed to be about. This business is about making it look realistic, but not feeling real. Anyone can go out there and punch some guy in the face, there's no art in that. To me, the Road Warriors were a big bomb with that. I loved watching them as a kid, but I thought they were really detrimental because -- I don't think it was their fault they were detrimental, they were told don't sell, and with their look at the time they shouldn't have sold. Except what happened is a whole generation of kids that got into the business wanted to be like the Road Warriors, and selling, which was once an art form, was an archeological dig to find somebody who could. All of a sudden instead of everybody being able to sell, which is how it should be, nobody could. It was a lost art.

 

It never really came back from that because the next generation that grew up wanted to be like Shawn Michaels, so acrobatics came in. To me, it's still all about the selling. That's how you build the drama. That's why I look at all these cruiserweight guys and I think if I could have done all that athleticism, I really would have been world champion years ago. But you're never going to get anywhere because if all they see is a pinball, they're never going to connect with you on a visceral level. I know I use the word visceral quite a bit, but it's the only way to describe it. If you're not hurt, there's no drama to it.

 

I always thought when 1-2-3 Kid came out, I thought that was really cool. Mikey Whipwreck in ECW had a very similar gimmick. I always enjoyed Mikey more because the difference was the 1-2-3 Kid was fearless, so there was no drama when he went and did all this crazy stuff. But Mikey was so terrified of doing it that when he finally did it, it showed courage and connected on a viseral, emotional level. Of course, then he could sell and make everything mean something. But with the Kid, once he went down he was down, and once he was up he was up. It didn't have the same long-term impact for me as a drama.

 

I think the Kid's a hell of a talent and I always got along really well with the Kid, so I'm not taking it as a slight on the Kid, I just meant for my preference at the time. I like what the Kid became later much more than when he started. I found it much more interesting when he learned that it's about selling and connecting with the people emotionally. Once he did that, what a much more interesting character. He always had heat as a heel. You wanted to punch him in the face. I thought he single-handedly revived Ric Flair in WCW because he brought something out of him. With Flair, it was "I don't know if I can take Nash or Hall, but I know I can beat your ass". It was the selling and the drama. That's what this business is based on, and that's what none of these dumb idiot cruiserweight kids get, so I'm like the old-timer preaching "Come sit around. You dumb kids, when I was your age..." I'll make a great old man. "Hey, get off my porch!" At least a lot of the guys actually listen. They come to me. Like C.M. Punk, AJ Styles, Chris Daniels, they all come to me now and go "Okay, how could I have sold this better, how could I make this mean more." I like that the new generation is getting beyond the acrobatics and so now another generation is coming in, and hopefully they're all gonna want to learn the actual art of this business."

 

How would he define the "WWF style" that people said guys like Jericho didn't get?

 

"Honestly, it's simple basic psychology there. Here's what the stupid kids today don't get. This is the whole concept of the business in a nutshell, and this is WWE style. The babyface outwrestles the heel. He outwrestles because he is either a little better, he's got a little more heart, a little more intestinal fortitude, so he outwrestles the heel. The heel finally has to cheat because the heel is either deep down a coward, an arrogant bastard, he has some fault or foible that is exposed, so finally because he can't get the advantage because the babyface is either a little bit better or has a little more heart, he cheats. Now he has some heat. Then he can beat the crap out of him and get the heat. Boom boom boom boom boom. Heat. Finally, when the babyface has had enough, through sheer intestinal fortitude and the people are getting behind him, and that emotional connection is there, he makes the big comeback. It's that simple. That's the business. And the whole match is geared and based towards the comeback. And that's why you have to have faces and heels like I talked about before, because a match is built toward a comeback. You keep delaying the gratification until the right moment, and then when it's the right moment you blow the big comeback and that's how the people get their rocks off."

 

Did he see enough of Jericho's work back then to know that he didn't work that style?

 

"RVD definitely didn't. I can't remember Jericho because that was during the lost years. But I think if you talk to Jericho now he'll definitely say that there is a definite WWE style, but to me it's just basic common sense. That's just how the business was. For the most part, maybe not everybody does it, but that's what WWE style is supposed to be. But it's really just ‘wrestling style', Wrestling 101. What's happened is, people don't understand that, so they just do some crazy spots and I'll do some crazy spots, and then we'll go home."

 

Does that sum up RVD's style?

 

"It does, but they molded him into the WWE style, then they never gave him a chance to capitalize on it. Honestly, when he came in, I hated his style because he hurt you, he's stiff, he didn't get the psychology of it. But to me, even so, he had such a connection with the people that they should have pushed him anyway because he would have been nothing but money. If they would have let him go with Austin during the Alliance deal, that would have been huge. For whatever reason, it didn't happen. There's definitely something to – and I'm sure this is what your next question is going to be – the main event style. Abso-fu–in'-lutely. The difference is, it's so hard to explain... first of all, as a main eventer, they have to believe that you are willing to pull some guy's eyeball out and eat it to win. You have to function on a different level because they're going to suspend disbelief on a different level in the main event. You have to know how to build the people. You have to have Wrestling 101 down to a science. It's about presence. It's about carrying yourself.

 

I'll give you the best example. I love Chris Daniels. He's a very good friend of mine in the business. I think he's one of the most superb, pure athletes in the business. And I think in six months or a year he'll be a main eventer, no doubt about it. But you read some of the sheets for years and they were saying he should be in WWE main eventing, blah blah blah blah. But no, he shouldn't because he's never been a main event style worker. He never carried himself like a main eventer. It's a whole different level. Obviously people see now, it's like a lot of guys were exposed once they were put in a main event slot. All of a sudden people go, we thought he was supposed to be a main eventer, and they put him there, but people realized ‘oh, wait, that doesn't work'. That's because there's something completely different to it.

 

I have no doubt that Chris will be there in no time. What's really good about Chris is that he asks for advice and he listens. That's better than the guys who ask for advice and don't actually listen. He takes criticism really well. I love the guy. He's a tremendous athlete. He's smaller, but you can compensate for that. Look at Low Ki, who is 150 pounds? He carries himself with such a presence and such an authority that you're like, whoa! You can't expose him with a 270 pounder, but he's totally believable in the right circumstances. He doesn't quite get the main event style yet, but he has the presence which goes a long way.

 

Chris is getting the match psychology, but he doesn't have the presence yet because it's not just one or the other. There's definitely something to needing the main event style, because so many guys have failed. The converse, there were a ton of guys who couldn't work main event style, and part of the job of the guys who can work is to carry the guys who can't. If you're a really good worker, the worse the guy is, the more you can carry him."

 

Hey remember when you lost to Goldberg, what was that like?

 

"I didn't care about losing so much as I really thought I was really going to get a chance to prove myself with the U.S. title, which sometimes has been a devalued belt and sometimes they put some steam on it. I really felt I could have been the guy to hold it for three months or six months and get some steam on it. I felt I could have elevated it. I thought we could have elevated each other because there were certain guys that had it, you just look at them and know. It irritated me on that level. I didn't care about losing.

 

The thing I hated about the whole Goldberg phenomenon is if he would have come into WWE, they would have made him respect the business. Instead, everybody, all the top guys sucked up to him because they realized he was going to be a top guy. So instead of making him humble and earning his place, they just let him walk right in on top. I've talked to him about it. He was like "I don't have to pay my dues because I paid them in football". It doesn't matter what you did in football, this is different. I couldn't go from wrestling to football and go "Hey, I paid my dues in wrestling". I'd still be a jobber in football until I earned my way. If he would have gone to New York, they would have made him big, but it wouldn't have been like in WCW where the top guys gave him a free ride where he never respected the business. I f-ckin' resent the fact that he made more money sitting at home than I made in my whole career when all he ever did was talk f-ckin' bad about wrestling. "Ah, I'd much rather play football," he'd say. Well, if you were so good at football, why didn't you have a career in it? Because he wasn't a star football player. What, he played one year with the Falcons? That's more than I ever did. I never could have played. I rode the bench in high school. But my point is, if that's what you wanted to be, you should have done it. But instead, we put over that he was a Falcon which means one of the lowest football players is our best guy. So imagine how good the top football players would be."

 

end

[Aero 0]

It was going to be Test, but they aren't sure if he'll be able to carry his end with the broken foot. It still could be him, though.

That makes sense . Why not just throw in Orton.

[The Dames 0]

- A wrestler finally had bad things to say about Dutch Mantel. "I haven't been impressed with him at all," said the guy. He noted that the booking hadn't changed at all since Dutch came in, but Dutch isn't really booking, he's just tweaking and helping with match finishes. People say he's the man in charge, though, not counting the Jarrett's.

 

Such great reporting. Who's your source?

 

Torch: "Um...a guy."

 

It was assumed that he'd stay backstage until Hogan came in, but he wasn't. So who knows.

 

Once again...the wrestling world is in shock by these developments.

 

Also, I'd like to add that Raven has a great mind for the business and there wasn't a word I disagreed with...except for his thoughts on Bret.

 

Dames

Edited November 3, 2003 by The Dames

[Guest Real F'n Show]

dammit Lance Storm should be on Austin's team...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

- The part of Vince's Smackdown promo that raised some eyebrows wasn't so much the raping and the kidnaping as much as the burning down of Taker's house, because some people thought that was insensitive considering the fires in California. Rey and RVD both have homes near the fires. Rey's is really close to it.

 

 

This paragraph right here sums up why I hate the WWF in it's current state.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I really enjoy reading Raven's interviews. Anyone who could stand up for the WWE style and have it make perfect sense is a genius.

 

Although, he lost me talking about Goldberg. I know what he was talking about but it came out like mish mash.

 

I figure anyone that can make the company big bucks NEEDS to be pushed, no matter how little dues the guy has paid. Sometimes, I wonder if they had handled Goldberg's first loss better (or more so if he was still undefeated) what the financial state of the company would have been when Russo took over if he ever had to.

[syxx2001 0]

With Russo not even being backstage, the Hogan thing COULD be a work. But eh, I dunno.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I totally agree with Raven about Goldberg. He got pushed before he was over and he should have had to pay dues TO get pushed. The guy doesn't even respect the business. All he cares about is the paycheck, and its is obvious alot of the time when he wrestles that its a job to him , not something he loves.

I agree that Goldberg was a prick and had no respect for the business, which is discouraging. Plus, if Goldberg was in the WWF in 1998-99, he wouldn't be 1/4 as over as he was in WCW. He'd be an upper-midcarder at best. However, for one reason or another, the WCW fans LOVED this guy. He took no shit . . . and the crowd was into his shtick. Intense entrance, yelling, growling, spear, jackhammer, c'ya next week. Did he have wrestling talent? Absolutely not. BUT, Goldberg was WCW's money man. WCW fans looked to him as an improved version of SCSA, as silly as that sounds. Just having Goldberg's name on the card would sell seats and get a percentage of people to tune in to either watch him destroy his prey or wonder if the streak may just end here.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Rey and RVD both have homes near the fires. Rey's is really close to it.

 

Well, that fucking sucks. I hope the fire gets vanquished ASAP.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

The problem with the whole streak thing is once it hit the double digits I don't think there was any way they could book it to end well. I'm not saying the way it ended was the best alternative but I don't think they could have done it well.

 

And besides due tot he streak Goldberg began to believe his own hype and began to think he shouldn't have to pay dues. He was GOLDBERG!!!!! Why should he have to pay dues? He played FOOTBALL!

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph. He didn't know or care to know how to keep his ego in check.

 

However, if I had to end his undefeated streak. I'd have a HEEL end it, not a face. You find a heel (preferably not Hogan, but it probably would have been him), have him beat Goldberg in a heavily hyped match. Let the heel play up to the fact that he ended the undefeated streak. Have Goldberg challenge the heel week after week and the heel have a clause in the contract that says "NO rematch." Eventually, have them face on Nitro w/ a shmozz ending. Maybe even a 2nd rematch on Nitro if the numbers are big and then pay it off on ppv with Goldberg winning and continuing destroying people. It's almost like when a girl becomes a born again virgin, Goldberg can become a born again squasher.

 

Of course, with Goldberg being uncooperative on more than one occasion, this may have been impossible.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

"I don't have to pay my dues because I paid them in football".

 

Ah yes, more reason to hate Goldberg.

 

*throws fuel onto the fire

 

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Man, Raven is a whining pussy. He is a little too sure of himself, and blames others for his misfortunes. I only needed to read the first few sentences to get the point. He dishes shit on others and looks at himself as the pinnacle. Maybe *gasp* this self-cntered grandeoise attitude got him in the doghouse with every company he's been in.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

Bret Hart, as good as he was, once he took over, he stopped selling because it was his turn then. If you were working his arm for five minutes, then he'd cut you off and go into the heat, he's not selling the arm anymore. I've always gone back and sold the arm.

 

This I disagree with. From his match on, Bret Hart sold the knee for almost an entire PPV through the end of the match and the Royal Rumble. I've seen Raven sell but the majority of his matches have been garbage matches. You HAVE to sell in those matches or you take down the whole match and anybody else who uses weapons down.

 

I'm not sure if he understands what WWE style is to be honest. It's a carbon copy of Steve Austin c. Attitude era. Punches, kicks, 2 or 3 signature moves, finisher. What he described which is the basic face vs. heel formula isn't WWE style.

 

I don't think Raven is a total klutz but I'm not too inclined to agree with a guy who admits frequently to having been under the influence of heavy drugs for years. I do think he has a good mind for the business but as far as creative, his favorite angle is cut and paste. Heel Raven vs. Face w/valet. Valet turns and joins Raven.

[syxx2001 0]

Everyone is always complaining about Taker talking about paying dues, then you all backdoor and say the same stuff? Fuck all of that "paying dues" stuff. Did Jordan have to sit on the bench for 5 years before becoming a star? No. I hate James so I wont bring him up and basketball is all I watch so thats the best I can do. But if the man has talent and can draw and connect to the crowd, who cares how many cars he had to drive in with 15 people sitting in the backseat or how many hot, sweaty gyms he had to wrestle in for 5 dollars a show before his break. Paying dues is overrated, just like that guy named after a math term

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Bret Hart, as good as he was, once he took over, he stopped selling because it was his turn then. If you were working his arm for five minutes, then he'd cut you off and go into the heat, he's not selling the arm anymore. I've always gone back and sold the arm.

 

This I disagree with. From his match on, Bret Hart sold the knee for almost an entire PPV through the end of the match and the Royal Rumble. I've seen Raven sell but the majority of his matches have been garbage matches. You HAVE to sell in those matches or you take down the whole match and anybody else who uses weapons down.

 

I'm not sure if he understands what WWE style is to be honest. It's a carbon copy of Steve Austin c. Attitude era. Punches, kicks, 2 or 3 signature moves, finisher. What he described which is the basic face vs. heel formula isn't WWE style.

 

I don't think Raven is a total klutz but I'm not too inclined to agree with a guy who admits frequently to having been under the influence of heavy drugs for years. I do think he has a good mind for the business but as far as creative, his favorite angle is cut and paste. Heel Raven vs. Face w/valet. Valet turns and joins Raven.

Man, face it, Raven is a drugged out loser who is bitter at life because he turned into a fucking waste. Jesus, he understands wrestling? Then why does he suck so much. His best match had Benoit literally beating it out of him. Yea, he has a vision of wrestling....too bad it sucks. Fuck Raven, Vicne was right on this account. Raven isn't even 1/100,000,000 of the worker Bret Hart is...he oughta just literally stick his foot in his mouth.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Paying dues is overrated, just like that guy named after a math term

Yeah. I hate that lousy Positively Page.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Paying dues should be used on a guy that has at least 2 or 3 years in wrestling and is still getting their feet wet, Goldberg was in the WCW power plant less than a month b4 he got called up to the big leagues, the guy got over by being given a can't miss gimmick, the guy got over by having 2 minutes squashes with established WCW midcarders and jobbers. Raven's beef with him is that he was given too much too soon and that's why Shitberg doesn't appreciate wrestling as much as the other guys in the business.Pretty much Bill looks down at wrestling but he still does it just for the money, which in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that, but there are people like Raven that do it more for the love of wrestling than the need for money.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Paying dues has just become the WWF excuse for cutting guys like Cena, F.B.I., Spanky, London and every other guy to debute in the last few years off at the knees.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Paying dues has just become the WWF excuse for cutting guys like Cena, F.B.I., Spanky, London and every other guy to debute in the last few years off at the knees.

I'll give you that, but you are mistaken about Cena, he is a WWE homegrown wrestler, he'll be world champion by next year so there's no need to worry about him, now guys like RVD,Benoit and Eddy, well, let's say they are still paying their "dues" wink wink.

[The Dames 0]

Bret Hart, as good as he was, once he took over, he stopped selling because it was his turn then. If you were working his arm for five minutes, then he'd cut you off and go into the heat, he's not selling the arm anymore. I've always gone back and sold the arm.

 

This I disagree with. From his match on, Bret Hart sold the knee for almost an entire PPV through the end of the match and the Royal Rumble. I've seen Raven sell but the majority of his matches have been garbage matches. You HAVE to sell in those matches or you take down the whole match and anybody else who uses weapons down.

 

I'm not sure if he understands what WWE style is to be honest. It's a carbon copy of Steve Austin c. Attitude era. Punches, kicks, 2 or 3 signature moves, finisher. What he described which is the basic face vs. heel formula isn't WWE style.

 

I don't think Raven is a total klutz but I'm not too inclined to agree with a guy who admits frequently to having been under the influence of heavy drugs for years. I do think he has a good mind for the business but as far as creative, his favorite angle is cut and paste. Heel Raven vs. Face w/valet. Valet turns and joins Raven.

Whoa...I must have read that too quick, cuz I didn't catch this the first time. I stand corrected. I don't agree with everything he said...

 

Dames

[Highland 0]

Cena will be a world champion someday, Benoit might, you never know, but RVD won't. He's an arrogant prick backstage, and it's probably a big reason why he's "held down"

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Cena will be a world champion someday, Benoit might, you never know, but RVD won't. He's an arrogant prick backstage, and it's probably a big reason why he's "held down"

I doubt Eddie and Benoit will ever have 1 World title reign between them.

 

And Cena's had the "paying dues" excuse to cut him off at the knees before. Remember him jobbing to Rikishi every week for 2 months last year?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I remember reading justifications for the Alliance being jobbers because they had to "pay dues". Sorry, but with an invasion storyline that doesn't work. And that's why I ended up nearly despising WWF TV by November 2001. It was the same shit week in and week out where WWF guys were the ones that mattered (regardless of where they stood) and the WCW buyout guys jobbed in every match.

[Steviekick 0]

Man, face it, Raven is a drugged out loser who is bitter at life because he turned into a fucking waste. Jesus, he understands wrestling? Then why does he suck so much. His best match had Benoit literally beating it out of him. Yea, he has a vision of wrestling....too bad it sucks. Fuck Raven, Vicne was right on this account. Raven isn't even 1/100,000,000 of the worker Bret Hart is...he oughta just literally stick his foot in his mouth.

I didn't get the impression that Raven was saying that he was a better worker than Bret Hart. He was just mentioning something that he noticed in Hart's style that he didn't necessarily like.

 

Raven may not have Heyman or McMahon-esque vision when it comes to wrestling, but he has a good grasp of wrestling psychology that works. In fact it's better than most of the people booking in WWE right now.

[syxx2001 0]

McMahon doesn't have a vision, he just needs someone to copy off of and mold it into his own.

[Guest One Trick Pony]

I'm not saying that he thinks he's better than Bret but he's saying he sells better than Bret and that's appaling.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I remember reading justifications for the Alliance being jobbers because they had to "pay dues". Sorry, but with an invasion storyline that doesn't work. And that's why I ended up nearly despising WWF TV by November 2001. It was the same shit week in and week out where WWF guys were the ones that mattered (regardless of where they stood) and the WCW buyout guys jobbed in every match.

And here we are 2 years later, and the buy-out guys *still* job in practically every match.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

But to me, this is the funny part:

 

Paying you dues in WWE does not include the following:

 

Wrestling or associating with WCW

Being any kind of a champion in ECW, ROH, IWA-MS, Michinoku Pro, New Japan, All Japan, Big Jap.....anything with the name Japan in it. Wrestling or holding titles of any kind in Europe or Mexico, also Canada is now void be cause we also hate Bret this week.

 

thanks for trying to join the WWE!!!!!