EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I worded that incorrectly. It was meant to say "compete for a championship." I knew what you meant. There is also a difference between teams who don't compete because they suck and teams who don't try to compete, don't you agree? Well just because a team doesn't compete for a championship doesn't mean they suck. The thing you're missing is that a championship is not a status quo. The playoffs consist of the 8 elite teams in the world. Missing the playoffs isn't necessarily a sign of failure. Sometimes it just comes down to luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I worded that incorrectly. It was meant to say "compete for a championship." I knew what you meant. There is also a difference between teams who don't compete because they suck and teams who don't try to compete, don't you agree? Well just because a team doesn't compete for a championship doesn't mean they suck. If they're not trying to compete for a championship why even bother? 162 games is a LONG time to play without any real ambition. Suck is a strong word. Inadequate might be better. The thing you're missing is that a championship is not a status quo. The playoffs consist of the 8 elite teams in the world. Missing the playoffs isn't necessarily a sign of failure This is where we differ. I personally, see absolutely no reason to play *any* sport other than to try and win their highest honor. So obviously I expect all 30 major league baseball teams to fight tooth and nail to win one of those eight spots. If they can't win one, they've failed. There is no such thing as a successful loser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 NL EAST I've gotta pick the Phillies here. Marlins finish second. Braves drop to third, ending the dynasty. Remember when the "new-look" Mets were slated to run the table in 2001? And the Phillies, with their new addition in Kevin Millwood, were predicted to take the division in 2002? Yeah, I do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Don't count out the Braves just yet. There's still plenty of solid starting pitchers, and Bobby Cox is one of the best regular season managers in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Pettitte is overrated. Compare Pettitte/Vazquez in every catagory outside of W/L record. Vazquez is clearly better. Pettitte had a 4.02 ERA last year. That's decent, but its not anything to write home about. Pettite had to pitch in the American League is entire career.It's different ball game over there. He also likes to mix in 5 pitches during his starts, so his numbers aren't gawdy has they could be. He's also shown over a number of years he can be a top flight starter, Vazquez has yet to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Boy, that winter meeting show was great. Hot rumor #1: Jacque Jones might be traded Hot rumor #2: Mike Cameron may go somewhere I should have known better than to think they actually had something big going on. I did enjoy the Phillies love, however. The rumors tended to be more Gammons, and Starks making suggestions in what trades made sense. One was Jones to Arizona, for Mantei. I guess it it's proven Mantei's elbow isn't a concern, than I guess do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Don't count out the Braves just yet. There's still plenty of solid starting pitchers, and Bobby Cox is one of the best regular season managers in the game. I'm working off what they have right now. If the season started today, their lineup would include Adam LaRoche, Mark DeRosa, and Gary Matthews. I can't see that overcoming the Phillies and Marlins. And the Phillies, with their new addition in Kevin Millwood, were predicted to take the division in 2002? I assume you mean 2003. Yeah, the Braves won, but in all fairness, its hard to predict a 394 rise in OPS by a 32 year old catcher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I still think the Braves are going to win the NL East, just not in the same dominant way. I bet it'll be a tight three way race between the Braves, Phillies and Marlins. I think the standings will go like: 1. Braves 2. Phillies 3. Marlins 4. Mets (Kaz Matsui won't bring these guys back to the top in his first year) 5. Expos (Next year they have Jose Vidro, Nick Johnson and a bunch of guys that were probably playing semi-pro in Walla Walla last year) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Breaking news...Keith Foulke signs with the Red Sox 3-years, $21 million. Gee and he kept saying he loved Oakland. Fuck this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Breaking news...Keith Foulke signs with the Red Sox 3-years, $21 million. Gee and he kept saying he loved Oakland. Fuck this. HAHAHA and the trend of the Boston area fucking Oakland continues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 He just admitted on ESPN News that he signed for the money. Wow thanks for lying through your fucking teeth for the last six weeks Keith. I hope you cost the Red Sox the World Series and become the biggest scapegoat for them since Buckner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 hahaha. Sad thing is that will probably happen. Oh and haven't you heard? Buckner has NOTHING on Grady Little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Wow Grady took over the #1 spot over Buckner? Yikes. Damn I don't know who the fuck is going to close for the A's now. *looks at the available closers...and sees Armando Benitez* AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YUJHNHNRTFGUYHJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Urbina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Breaking news...Keith Foulke signs with the Red Sox 3-years, $21 million. Gee and he kept saying he loved Oakland. Fuck this. I agree. None of these fuckers have any integrity anymore. He probably got one million extra per year to go to Boston. Big whoop. If you like a city and an organization - why not make a sacrifice? This offseason has for all intents and purposes killed baseball. Its a joke now. Why even watch when small market teams like the A's who have superior scouting and coaching get overshawdowed by the bankbooks of the Yanks and Sox. Its sickening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 And I find it hard to blame him for this. Granted I don't live in the Oakland area so a.) I don't have a vested interest and b.) I haven't seen what he has been saying for the past month but looking at this Salary Boston: 3yr/21mil with option that would probably make it 4yr/28mil Oakland: 4yr/22 mil So it is likely going to be 6 mil more over the life of the deal. Plus he is going to be closing for two of the best 5 pitchers of this generation. You can't tell me that that wouldn't tempt a closer. Finally, who knows what the A's are going to do to keep their team together. Three years from now, you can pretty much guarantee Boston will still be spending money and keeping players. Oakland has revolving doors. So it is hard to see a down side about Foulke going to Boston. Also, he was only an Athletic for one year. So I don't see him as an A like Giambi was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted December 13, 2003 America's capitalistic "gimme gimme gimme" attitude has ruined baseball. It truly has. Everyone is in this for themselves and shitting on the little guy. I'm certainly no communist, but this is just an example of capitalism at its worst. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Well pinjockey I wouldn't blame him if he hadn't been saying for the last six weeks that he would take less to stay in Oakland and even got one more guarenteed year from them. Oh and the A's offer was between $22-25 million depending on what source is providing the information. Beane never goes to these lengths to keep closers but he did for Foulke and he just wasted their time. Seriously been sitting here for the last two weeks waiting for Foulke to make his decisions and kept the A's from making other moves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I will agree that it was pretty shitty, considering the offers have been on the table for a while, to sit there twiddling his thumbs. It isn't like there were other bidders he was hoping to get or hoping he could play them off each other. These deals have been on the table for a while. So he should have made up his mind sooner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I'm feeling good about the BoSox, but deep down in me I got a feeling this all star roster is gonna blow up in everyone's faces ala the 2001 Mets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 More breaking news from ESPN...J.D. Drew is expected to be traded to the Braves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted December 13, 2003 This offseason has for all intents and purposes killed baseball. Its a joke now. Why even watch when small market teams like the A's who have superior scouting and coaching get overshawdowed by the bankbooks of the Yanks and Sox. Its sickening. the 2000 off-season killed baseball, the market is just now making a comeback. Look at what happened in 2000 Manny-$160mill over 8 years with 2 club option years that can push it to $200mil Mussina- $88.5 over 6 years with a club option that can push it to $105.5 mill Neagle- $51mill over 5 years with a club option that could push it to $63.5mill Hampton- $121mill over 8 years with a club option that brings it to $141mill there were more bad deals but those are the major ones. Deals like that won't be seen again for a very long time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Now official...Cardinals trade J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero to the Braves for Jason Marquis, Ray King, and a prospect Adam Wainright (sp?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I'm feeling good about the BoSox, but deep down in me I got a feeling this all star roster is gonna blow up in everyone's faces ala the 2001 Mets. If the Yanks get Vlady and maybe Maddux or another pitcher of the same irk....consider the Red Sox chances null and void. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 I doubt the Yanks are going to look for another starter. Right now they've got six guys they can consider for rotation slots. And I agree with Pinjockey's assessment. Besides, the A's won't cry over this. They have $7 million now they can go shopping with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Encarnacion traded to the Dodgers. Awaiting details. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Please LoDuca, please LoDuca, please. And I expected him to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 If the Yanks get Vlady and maybe Maddux or another pitcher of the same irk....consider the Red Sox chances null and void. I don't think so, even if you put Vlad and Old Man Maddux on the Yankees (Which won't happen in either case) I think the Red Sox can compete. That being said deep down I still have some strange feeling about the BoSox off season this.... it looks too good to be true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Well, its Encarnacion for a player to be named later. Encarnacion isn't a big loss. He had a .313 OBP last year, and the Marlins have Cabrera and Conine to man the outfield corners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mik 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2003 Let me just make a comment on the Marlins next year, and I would love to hear what Al has to say. Everyone is expecting a big dropoff from the world championship year, and while I am not proclaiming them NL east champions or anything, I'm still not seeing a big dropoff. Let's look at it. Pudge, gone: and yes that hurts. Javy Lopez is quoted on record as saying he wants to be a Marlin next year, and if he can put up a season like last year (which remains to be seen) it wouldn't be that big of a loss. Miguel Cabrera, I think, has what it takes to be MVP of the National League. He was only 20! years old and put up amazing numbers this postseason and from July on, for that matter. He was UNFAZED by Yankee mystique in the playoffs. I really think he is the superstar of the Marlins. Also, I think the pitching will be improved. Sure, Redman will probably be gone. Everyone expects Willis to drop off, but he's only 21 and a whole year of Major League offseason conditioning will do him well. A rotation of Beckett, Willis, Pavano, and AJ Burnett, and let me remind everyone that he has the best "stuff" of all of them, even Beckett. He lead the entire MLB in complete games last year and if he can stay healthy, that's like a big time free agent signing. All I'm saying is don't expect a collapse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
