White Judge Draws Fire for Costume

[Justice 0]

Blacks in comparable schools do just as well as whites. you take a school with funding out the ass and a school in the inner city where the current events section in the histroy books are talking about the upcoming dukakis, bush election, then who do you think will have better scores.

 

I'll agree that inner-city school systems as a whole need a massive revamping. But again, you have to have parental involvement to really make a child succeed. From my mother's extensive experience as a teacher in Detroit she thinks that a lot of blacks either have kids too early to really put the effort into caring for them because they just aren't ready for it, others just don't want their kids. This doesn't apply to all inner-city parents, but a large majority that she meets are like this and it isn't helping out anyone. We need those black leaders like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to stop worrying about the Omsbundman of Bumpkinville accidentally saying "Negro" and looking more towards problems like these: To keep these people from having kids too early and shooting themselves in the foot before they even have a chance to succeed.

 

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country. 2-3 generations tops. The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).

 

Wasn't it mostly contained in the South? I really don't remember any laws in Michigan restricting blacks, nor out west. Please don't claim it was law everywhere when it really wasn't.

 

My argument is, while racism isn't dead, it isn't the problem anymore. That's stuck on mainly an individual level and will become more and more scarce as we move forwards. The main problem is the idea that everyone is still a racist and that the system will always be geared against you so you won't be able to succeed without help. The whole "thug" thing that is really prevailant among inner-city kids (Not rap music).

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it. Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five. They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have. White skin. How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?

 

Oh fuck you. FUCK YOU. I just lost a ton of respect for you there. You are just as bad as fucking Jesse Jackson to devalue their struggles with identity in America by just saying "They could get over it because they were white". As if having White Skin is just the saving grace of any persecuted European minority. Not a lot of Irish people changed their names, oddly enough. I still see a lot of Thulls, O'Malleys, O'Hares, McCulloughs, and others. A lot of jews didn't hide either. They certainly didn't abandon their culture because we see so many of them proudly displaying it today. They were still used, abused, and persecuted. Thing is, they didn't constantly complain of being a victim like you are right now. They worked past it, and I believe the black race can do the same if they stopped trying to blame everything bad that happens on them on someone else and focused on making themselves better.

 

This nation was taught Racsim. Their children was taught racism. To pretend that it ended because the law said so speaks to your ignorance. Anyone that says racism is dead, ANY FUCKING ONE is a moron, simple as that. Especially to say that the younger generation hasn't experienced racism anymore.

 

Yes, because my mom is a flaming racist because of her father... oh wait, no she isn't. But her friends are... wait, no they aren't. But my dad is... wait, no he isn't. But his friends are... well, maybe Johnny. But seriously, just shut up, man. You are the one looking like the fucking moron here. Fact is that racism of any type towards minorities is almost universally reviled in today's society. It's not fucking widespread as it once was; we've come a long long way. It's not dead, but it certainly isn't a problem that is holding back the black race. And yes, being part of the younger generation I've experienced tons of racism. It works both ways, and this massive paranoia that you seem to have only creates more of it. I'd guess that you are one of the people who give me an angry stare when I smile and say "Hello" on the street...

 

*Sits and waits to be called a nig-I mean, racist. Hey, it holds about as much hate against me as that word does to you. Don't feel so inclined to throw it around like nothing, pricks.*

[Justice 0]

Question: What the fuck is with the debate on rap being music on not? It's fucking music; a rhythm has to be created instruments or by mouth and therefore would qualify. Melody isn't a necessity for music.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Question: What the fuck is with the debate on rap being music on not?

Because rap is supposedly just some "G" throwing down rhymes over a beat in between slangin' dem drugs, not paying his taxes, and smacking his hos, so it can't possibly be music. Now, take a rock 'n' roll musician who bangs out a few riffs on his guitar, tosses in some lyrics about how life is so painful in between shootin' up his heroin and drinkin' his bottles and bottles of Jack Daniels, and you've got powerful music...yeah, stereotypes are stupid, aren't they?

[EricMM 0]

I tend to think of good rap as a form of poetry. Like beat poetry.

 

Which is not music.

 

I mean its a hybrid definitely, but it's not as "musical" as a band with 2 or 4 or 9 instruments.

 

Then again, a lot of "hip hop" these days is more like "R n B" anyways, which is definitely music.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Man, I must be the only one listening to some of this rap that incorporates more musical instruments into their albums than most "real" musical acts could ever hope to.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

::puts in the new Jay-Z album::

 

I really don't get people who say rap isn't melodic. With the exception of spoken/sing-spoken vocals it's the same as any other music. The musical difference between a Justin Timberlake single and a Jay-Z single is...oh, wait, nothing, because the Neptunes produce and arrange both.

 

As for where the larger discussion has headed now...whoo. Not touching this one any more.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

The musical difference between a Justin Timberlake single and a Jay-Z single is...oh, wait, nothing

 

So...they both suck?

 

*rimshot*

 

Seriously though...I think it's REALLY easy to generalize music like rap & metal, mainly because fans of one genre tend to not see anything but the mainstream of the other.

 

Like, speaking for myself, virtually all the rap I've ever heard IS the whole ghetto, bling-bling stereotype kinda shit. Why? Because that's what they play on TV. Obviously, if I don't like the stuff that's all over the media, I'm not going to go looking for other stuff. It holds no interest. So while there probably IS rap out there that's much more intelligent, it's nothing someone like me has heard of, so pardon my ignorance.

 

Also, while I won't say that rap isn't music, I will say that I think it's a totally different kind of music then heavy metal/rock, and not just in the sense of the genre.

 

Heavy metal tends to focus more on the instruments being played, while in rap, it seems as though the beats are merely a background to whoever happens to be rapping. It's almost like the actual music in rap music is merely an afterthought. I think that alone could qualify metal to be more "musical" (as the music is the key, not the vocals), but again, I freely admit that I'm ignorant and biased (I hate rap, man) so take that for what it's worth.

 

As for the judge guy, while this has been said, a JUDGE should know better. It doesn't matter what his reasons were - he should've known better then that.

 

As for the whole race relations issue...I'll let you guys handle that while I watch from the sidelines.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Sigh...good thing I took my little break when I did.

RIPPER!

 

What up ni--

 

Oh, wait. Nevermind...

Edited November 18, 2003 by kkktookmybabyaway

[ant_7000 0]

Lol at rap not being music. To me rap is truest form of music of any genre. Rap has diverse styles and subject matters, and if wasn't for rap, rock would be DEAD by now. now that I see and hear alot of raps in rock and even turntables are incorperated in rock these days. There's rappers like Andre 3000, Wyclef Jean, Lauyrn Hill, X-cutioners (Turntable is instrument), The Roots and Go-Go music (that uses lil aspect of Rap) play live instruments, so a lot these stupid arguements from anti rap posters in here don't hold no weight when they say Rappers don't pick up guitars. I kinda wonder why some posters here blindly don't like rap because maybe because its considered Black Music? I don't know. I admit some of mainstream rap is garbage now, but you can go look and search for some variety because Nelly and Talib Kweli don't rap same way.

[Perfxion 0]

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country. 2-3 generations tops. The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).

 

Wasn't it mostly contained in the South? I really don't remember any laws in Michigan restricting blacks, nor out west. Please don't claim it was law everywhere when it really wasn't.

 

My argument is, while racism isn't dead, it isn't the problem anymore. That's stuck on mainly an individual level and will become more and more scarce as we move forwards. The main problem is the idea that everyone is still a racist and that the system will always be geared against you so you won't be able to succeed without help. The whole "thug" thing that is really prevailant among inner-city kids (Not rap music).

Well, it wasn't something that was only in the south. It was a problem in the North too. It wasn't as big as a problem because black labor was cheap. Example of racsim in the North, durring the Great Depresson, all major work done in this country that had Empire State Building, George Washington Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge, Hoover Dam, Grand Coolie(sp?) dam, ect had no blacks working for it. It was GOVEREMENT projects that used racism to only give jobs to white males and Native Americans for high rise jobs since "they had no fear of hights and rail walking".

 

I forget which state it was, could very well be Michigan, but they had two law schools. A Black law school and a white law school. The case went to the state supreme court because the blacks complained that if it is going to be seperate but equal, the school would need to have two complete libaries for the students to use. Since no school could afford to stock two, they had to intergrate the law schools.

 

Now as for the debate on the merits of Rap, well, since I am a big fan of both rock and rap I like rap more for its lyrics, but not to say all rock songs don't have good lyrics. I like rock more for the "music" part, as in not the lyrics. But not to say rap can't have good riffs and drum lines. I find hybrids to be good but never really have both in well, sans Rage Against The Machine. As for Rap not being real music, the only people who say that are people who don't listen to rap. I have had neighbors say that line of bullshit before and well, now they are all big rap fans because they opened their ears and listen to what was said. Now only if people here could do that.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

and if wasn't for rap, rock would be DEAD by now.

 

No it wouldn't.

 

Just because some rock bands incorporate some aspects of rap into their music, that doesn't mean that the entire genre would be non-existant without those few aspects, used by those few bands.

 

That's just silly.

[Guest MikeSC]

Sigh...good thing I took my little break when I did. I probably would be banned right now for pointing out how many idiotic moronic retarded ass comments are in this thread...mostly from Mike not suprisingly.

 

Mike...seriously...you are a brain dead idiot when it comes to race relations. I don't have the time or patience to go back through and pick apart you ususal weak ass comments. Blah blah, blacks segregate themselves on college campuses...blah blah, blacks are lazy...blah blah blah.

 

Blacks in comparable schools do just as well as whites. you take a school with funding out the ass and a school in the inner city where the current events section in the histroy books are talking about the upcoming dukakis, bush election, then who do you think will have better scores.

 

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country. 2-3 generations tops. The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it. Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five. They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have. White skin. How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead? How in the fucking hell was that suppose to work for black americans. This nation was taught Racsim. Their children was taught racism. To pretend that it ended because the law said so speaks to your ignorance. Anyone that says racism is dead, ANY FUCKING ONE is a moron, simple as that. Especially to say that the younger generation hasn't experienced racism anymore.

 

So come back and say some dumb shit about how africans sold the slaves to americans or what the fuck ever as if it has any relevance whatsoever. Slavery ended in the 60's btw. Africans weren't still selling blacks.

 

Oh yeah...and the judge putting on black face and dressing as a criminal and people are still saying that was racist? What do you have to do these days short of tying a noose around a black guys neck to be considered racsit....besides spout off like Mike.

Well, as expected, the lemmings of the civil rights community call anybody who dares to disagree a racist. I figured this would happen. Always does. It's the best way to avoid discussing the issue. Ripper, the civil rights leadership has taught you well and while I'll always hope that you'll eventually develop an original thought --- it clearly will not happen soon.

 

Fortunately, while I did respect your opinion on issues, your opinion of me is immaterial. You don't know me from a hole in the ground.

-=Mike

[Justice 0]

Well, it wasn't something that was only in the south. It was a problem in the North too. It wasn't as big as a problem because black labor was cheap. Example of racsim in the North, durring the Great Depresson, all major work done in this country that had Empire State Building, George Washington Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge, Hoover Dam, Grand Coolie(sp?) dam, ect had no blacks working for it. It was GOVEREMENT projects that used racism to only give jobs to white males and Native Americans for high rise jobs since "they had no fear of hights and rail walking".

That's kinda odd. I'd need a source on it, because personally it seems a bit out there considering they'd hire Chinese and Native Americans for those jobs as well and they arguably had it worse than blacks in some of those areas. Then again, it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility. Again, I need some proof on this because that really seems out there...

 

I forget which state it was, could very well be Michigan, but they had two law schools. A Black law school and a white law school. The case went to the state supreme court because the blacks complained that if it is going to be seperate but equal, the school would need to have two complete libaries for the students to use. Since no school could afford to stock two, they had to intergrate the law schools.

 

Actually, you are very wrong here. You are either referring to Sweatt v. Painter (Involving University of Texas) or Missouri ex rel Gaines v. Canada, both of which are considered to be part of the South (Or in Missouri's case, a border state that had very Southern rules). Again, all these were where slavery once took place and I really doubt that similar statutes were in law in places like Michigan or California or other places because I've really never heard of them.

[Guest MikeSC]

Also. if they're dressed in a way that is like "all those thugs on TV" than they're intimidating and that they MUST be up to no good. I mean seriously, it's just a style of clothing man. I don't wear it because I personally think I'd look stupid, but if it works for you, go for it.

If you dress as a thug, you will be treated as one.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Blacks in comparable schools do just as well as whites. you take a school with funding out the ass and a school in the inner city where the current events section in the histroy books are talking about the upcoming dukakis, bush election, then who do you think will have better scores.

 

I'll agree that inner-city school systems as a whole need a massive revamping. But again, you have to have parental involvement to really make a child succeed. From my mother's extensive experience as a teacher in Detroit she thinks that a lot of blacks either have kids too early to really put the effort into caring for them because they just aren't ready for it, others just don't want their kids. This doesn't apply to all inner-city parents, but a large majority that she meets are like this and it isn't helping out anyone. We need those black leaders like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to stop worrying about the Omsbundman of Bumpkinville accidentally saying "Negro" and looking more towards problems like these: To keep these people from having kids too early and shooting themselves in the foot before they even have a chance to succeed.

 

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country. 2-3 generations tops. The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).

 

Wasn't it mostly contained in the South? I really don't remember any laws in Michigan restricting blacks, nor out west. Please don't claim it was law everywhere when it really wasn't.

 

My argument is, while racism isn't dead, it isn't the problem anymore. That's stuck on mainly an individual level and will become more and more scarce as we move forwards. The main problem is the idea that everyone is still a racist and that the system will always be geared against you so you won't be able to succeed without help. The whole "thug" thing that is really prevailant among inner-city kids (Not rap music).

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it. Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five. They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have. White skin. How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?

 

Oh fuck you. FUCK YOU. I just lost a ton of respect for you there. You are just as bad as fucking Jesse Jackson to devalue their struggles with identity in America by just saying "They could get over it because they were white". As if having White Skin is just the saving grace of any persecuted European minority. Not a lot of Irish people changed their names, oddly enough. I still see a lot of Thulls, O'Malleys, O'Hares, McCulloughs, and others. A lot of jews didn't hide either. They certainly didn't abandon their culture because we see so many of them proudly displaying it today. They were still used, abused, and persecuted. Thing is, they didn't constantly complain of being a victim like you are right now. They worked past it, and I believe the black race can do the same if they stopped trying to blame everything bad that happens on them on someone else and focused on making themselves better.

 

This nation was taught Racsim. Their children was taught racism. To pretend that it ended because the law said so speaks to your ignorance. Anyone that says racism is dead, ANY FUCKING ONE is a moron, simple as that. Especially to say that the younger generation hasn't experienced racism anymore.

 

Yes, because my mom is a flaming racist because of her father... oh wait, no she isn't. But her friends are... wait, no they aren't. But my dad is... wait, no he isn't. But his friends are... well, maybe Johnny. But seriously, just shut up, man. You are the one looking like the fucking moron here. Fact is that racism of any type towards minorities is almost universally reviled in today's society. It's not fucking widespread as it once was; we've come a long long way. It's not dead, but it certainly isn't a problem that is holding back the black race. And yes, being part of the younger generation I've experienced tons of racism. It works both ways, and this massive paranoia that you seem to have only creates more of it. I'd guess that you are one of the people who give me an angry stare when I smile and say "Hello" on the street...

 

*Sits and waits to be called a nig-I mean, racist. Hey, it holds about as much hate against me as that word does to you. Don't feel so inclined to throw it around like nothing, pricks.*

Powerplay, don't let them get to you.

 

Whenever they wish to simply shut down ANY conversation that claims that maybe, just maybe, whites are not the major cause of the problems of the black community, they will simply call you a racist in the hopes of you shutting up.

 

It worked for years.

-=Mike

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Also. if they're dressed in a way that is like "all those thugs on TV" than they're intimidating and that they MUST be up to no good. I mean seriously, it's just a style of clothing man. I don't wear it because I personally think I'd look stupid, but if it works for you, go for it.

If you dress as a thug, you will be treated as one.

-=Mike

If you dress as a convict in black face, you will be treated like one

 

By the way, it's a style of clothing. It's not you wear baggy pants to be treated as a thug, thugs just happen to wear it. Most of the time they're just teenagers out for a good time. They're not out to hurt anybody. It's more or less a culture. The common misconception is that killing people is part of that. It isn't.

 

I will agree though, it's stupid for a grown man to wear pants below his ass. Much like it's stupid for a grown man to rip up his jeans and dress all dirty ON PURPOSE.

[Guest MikeSC]

By the way, it's a style of clothing. It's not you wear baggy pants to be treated as a thug, thugs just happen to wear it. Most of the time they're just teenagers out for a good time.

 

That might well be the case. But people make an impression based on how one dresses. That is why you don't wear shorts and a T-shirt to a job interview.

 

People don't KNOW the kids, so they HAVE to make a judgment about them based on very limited knowledge. If they dress in a style similar to what thugs tend to wear, well, that will be the assumption.

 

They're not out to hurt anybody. It's more or less a culture. The common misconception is that killing people is part of that. It isn't.

 

If you dress like a thug, again, you will be treated as such. If you DON'T dress like that, you will have fewer problems. You can be STUBBORN and dress that way if you wish, but you are bringing the problems upon yourself.

 

I will agree though, it's stupid for a grown man to wear pants below his ass. Much like it's stupid for a grown man to rip up his jeans and dress all dirty ON PURPOSE.

 

Agreed. Fully.

-=Mike

[Bruiser Chong 0]

But some guy dressed in baggy jeans and a throwback jersey, with a hat to the side isn't necessarily going to a job interview, no is he? It's common sense that in situations like job interviews or formal events, there's a pre-set idea of what one should wear and most stick to that. Outside of those events, why should someone avoid certain types of clothing all together just because some people are so close-minded that they're going to instantly label them a thug for dressing like that?

[Ripper 0]

Sigh...good thing I took my little break when I did.  I probably would be banned right now for pointing out how many idiotic moronic retarded ass comments are in this thread...mostly from Mike not suprisingly. 

 

Mike...seriously...you are a brain dead idiot when it comes to race relations.  I don't have the time or patience to go back through and pick apart you ususal weak ass comments.  Blah blah, blacks segregate themselves on college campuses...blah blah, blacks are lazy...blah blah blah. 

 

Blacks in comparable schools do just as well as whites.  you take a school with funding out the ass and a school in the inner city where the current events section in the histroy books are talking about the upcoming dukakis, bush election, then who do you think will have better scores. 

 

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country.  2-3 generations tops.  The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).   

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it.  Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five.  They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have.  White skin.  How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?  How in the fucking hell was that suppose to work for black americans.  This nation was taught Racsim.  Their children was taught racism.  To pretend that it ended because the law said so speaks to your ignorance.  Anyone that says racism is dead, ANY FUCKING ONE is a moron, simple as that.  Especially to say that the younger generation hasn't experienced racism anymore. 

 

So come back and say some dumb shit about how africans sold the slaves to americans or what the fuck ever as if it has any relevance whatsoever.  Slavery ended in the 60's btw.  Africans weren't still selling blacks. 

 

Oh yeah...and the judge putting on black face and dressing as a criminal and people are still saying that was racist?  What do you have to do these days short of tying a noose around a black guys neck to be considered racsit....besides spout off like Mike.

Well, as expected, the lemmings of the civil rights community call anybody who dares to disagree a racist. I figured this would happen. Always does. It's the best way to avoid discussing the issue. Ripper, the civil rights leadership has taught you well and while I'll always hope that you'll eventually develop an original thought --- it clearly will not happen soon.

 

Fortunately, while I did respect your opinion on issues, your opinion of me is immaterial. You don't know me from a hole in the ground.

-=Mike

You are absolutely correct, I don't know you. I know what you present yourself to be. When YOU say that blacks don't have high level jobs because they don't have a grasp on the English language, which is coming from YOUR mind. When you say blacks feel inferior to whites all the while having no basis for the claim, that is YOUR words. When you say that cops should pull over blacks for BEING BLACK because they are probably up to something, YOU make people think things about you. YOU call blacks bad tippers and loud and obnoxious, you paint a race in a negative light, and that, in essence is an attempt to claim superiority over them, be it intellectually or socially. YOU have created my opinion of you because basically what you state aren't arguable opinions; they are ignorant statements that have no basis.

 

I am a lemming now? Why because I take what YOU have said and call YOU what you paint YOURSELF to be. Whatever. As you notice, there are a lot of people that kinda agreed with you on some of you more non-idiotic points, you don't see me stating that they are racist. They disagree with me, but of course you somehow represent everyone and a diss on mike is me dissing everyone.

[Guest MikeSC]

But some guy dressed in baggy jeans and a throwback jersey, with a hat to the side isn't necessarily going to a job interview, no is he? It's common sense that in situations like job interviews or formal events, there's a pre-set idea of what one should wear and most stick to that. Outside of those events, why should someone avoid certain types of clothing all together just because some people are so close-minded that they're going to instantly label them a thug for dressing like that?

Why bitch and moan when you KNOW that is how you're viewed before you put it on?

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Sigh...good thing I took my little break when I did.  I probably would be banned right now for pointing out how many idiotic moronic retarded ass comments are in this thread...mostly from Mike not suprisingly. 

 

Mike...seriously...you are a brain dead idiot when it comes to race relations.  I don't have the time or patience to go back through and pick apart you ususal weak ass comments.  Blah blah, blacks segregate themselves on college campuses...blah blah, blacks are lazy...blah blah blah. 

 

Blacks in comparable schools do just as well as whites.  you take a school with funding out the ass and a school in the inner city where the current events section in the histroy books are talking about the upcoming dukakis, bush election, then who do you think will have better scores. 

 

We are now about 40 years removed from when racism was written LAW in this country.  2-3 generations tops.  The progress has been wonderful despite what the media tells you(speaking of the media, its funny how you will use magazines and such as sources when they support your argument, but everything else is lying crap if it doesn't...hmm...).   

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it.  Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five.  They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have.  White skin.  How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?  How in the fucking hell was that suppose to work for black americans.  This nation was taught Racsim.  Their children was taught racism.  To pretend that it ended because the law said so speaks to your ignorance.  Anyone that says racism is dead, ANY FUCKING ONE is a moron, simple as that.  Especially to say that the younger generation hasn't experienced racism anymore. 

 

So come back and say some dumb shit about how africans sold the slaves to americans or what the fuck ever as if it has any relevance whatsoever.  Slavery ended in the 60's btw.  Africans weren't still selling blacks. 

 

Oh yeah...and the judge putting on black face and dressing as a criminal and people are still saying that was racist?  What do you have to do these days short of tying a noose around a black guys neck to be considered racsit....besides spout off like Mike.

Well, as expected, the lemmings of the civil rights community call anybody who dares to disagree a racist. I figured this would happen. Always does. It's the best way to avoid discussing the issue. Ripper, the civil rights leadership has taught you well and while I'll always hope that you'll eventually develop an original thought --- it clearly will not happen soon.

 

Fortunately, while I did respect your opinion on issues, your opinion of me is immaterial. You don't know me from a hole in the ground.

-=Mike

You are absolutely correct, I don't know you. I know what you present yourself to be. When YOU say that blacks don't have high level jobs because they don't have a grasp on the English language, which is coming from YOUR mind. When you say blacks feel inferior to whites all the while having no basis for the claim, that is YOUR words. When you say that cops should pull over blacks for BEING BLACK because they are probably up to something, YOU make people think things about you. YOU call blacks bad tippers and loud and obnoxious, you paint a race in a negative light, and that, in essence is an attempt to claim superiority over them, be it intellectually or socially. YOU have created my opinion of you because basically what you state aren't arguable opinions; they are ignorant statements that have no basis.

 

I am a lemming now? Why because I take what YOU have said and call YOU what you paint YOURSELF to be. Whatever. As you notice, there are a lot of people that kinda agreed with you on some of you more non-idiotic points, you don't see me stating that they are racist. They disagree with me, but of course you somehow represent everyone and a diss on mike is me dissing everyone.

Inventing statements now?

 

Pathetic.

-=Mike

...Never said blacks should be pulled over for being blacks. Never said blacks don't get high-level jobs due to poor English skills. And, LIKE IT OR NOT, blacks DO tend to be bad tippers. You can HATE reality if you wish.

 

But I'm now bored of you.

[Papacita 0]

I'm late for some of this stuff, but just wanted to address some things...first, from one of Mike's posts:

 

So be it. I'll tell you that whites don't care, honestly, about light- or dark-skinned blacks and the differences between them.

 

Whites don't care. No group really cares. It's up to the various minority groups (not just blacks) to recognize that the "majority" in this country, by and large, doesn't care enough to keep up with their idiotic infighting.

Whatever issues that between light-skinned and dark-skinned blacks stems directly from social conditioning of blacks in slavery, which is why I say that slavery is largely to blame. However, you seem to get the idea that I feel whites should step in and try to resolve this and just about any other problem I brought up, and that's just not true for a couple of reasons. Well, for this point and other race-specific problems, no one would expect anyone whites or anyone else to care about them, simply because the issues don't affect them. And even if they did care, I doubt that a white person could rectify the issues if they couldn't if they tried. Any social issues affecting a particular group could only be solved by the people within said group, and NO ONE, not even the most racist blacks out there would suggest otherwise.

 

Also, when you say whites, I get the sense that you're saying whites in general (as in every white man and woman in America), and I could be misinterpreting you here, but really, I just want to reassert that I'm not blaming the white population for ANY problems that problems that affect blacks, because even the most whites don't even have the power to cause any real problems.

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it. Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five. They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have. White skin. How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?

Oh fuck you. FUCK YOU. I just lost a ton of respect for you there. You are just as bad as fucking Jesse Jackson to devalue their struggles with identity in America by just saying "They could get over it because they were white". As if having White Skin is just the saving grace of any persecuted European minority. Not a lot of Irish people changed their names, oddly enough. I still see a lot of Thulls, O'Malleys, O'Hares, McCulloughs, and others. A lot of jews didn't hide either. They certainly didn't abandon their culture because we see so many of them proudly displaying it today. They were still used, abused, and persecuted. Thing is, they didn't constantly complain of being a victim like you are right now. They worked past it, and I believe the black race can do the same if they stopped trying to blame everything bad that happens on them on someone else and focused on making themselves better.

No one's denying that these people suffered despite their skin color, but I can see where Ripper's coming from here. As far as socialization goes, actually being white would make it a lot easier to assimilate into American society, not because of a white pride or anything like that, but fact is that as you start moving into second or third generations, whatever stark differences that separated Irish or Jewish immigrants from typical American whites simply become less pronounced, to the point where it becomes a hard to tell the difference between the immigrant group and the established group. And while they didn't disregard their roots, most immigrants did adapt to American culture, and when you've got someone who looks like you, talks like you, and is of the same socio-economic status, it's a lot harder to single them out than it would to single out blacks, Asians or latinos, who's physical appearance does a lot more to accentuate any perceived difference between the groups.

 

Now...onto my little rant on Africa...

 

Ahem...

 

Pre-colonial Africa was culturally and economically backwards.

First off, you're tossing all Africans into the same boat,and that's not good, because it's a HUGE continent, and it is and always has been very heterogeneous. That being said, Economically, what was backwards about it? Rich lands like the Nile Valley (Egypt and the like) flourished before European influence. Same with places like Ghana, Songhay and Mali. While they didn't interact often with European powers, there's evidence of sophisticated commercial trade systems throughout Pre-Colonial Africa. Culturally...while there were no rigid land boundaries, there's not much to indicate that societies were backwards. Again, you had kingdoms in West Africa, sophisticated social practices among other things. And then you had places like the area known today as Rwanda, that, while a pastoral society, had a social structure before colonial arrival that was actually admired by European powers upon their arrival.

 

Much as people hate to say it, Western civilization has done more to help the world than any other civilization and contact with it does more good than harm.

Much as people hate to say it, Western civilization has done more to help the world than any other civilization and contact with it does more good than harm.

 

If Africa was never colonized, it'd still be a hellhole.

 

The west just gave them some nice weaponry.

Civilization...heh. Anyway, while European influence did benefit Africa technologically, socially, it destroyed them. One, as stated earlier, imperialists imposed arbitrary boundaries onto Africa, and strategically divided the continent in a manner that benefitted their own interests and had little regard for ethnic conflicts that existed within those boundaries, which caused a lot of the conflict with Ethiopia and Somalia in the mid-20th century.

 

Also, you've got to consider the impact that divided rule was the basis for many conflicts in post-colonial Africa, such as in Nigeria between the colonially *INVENTED* groups of the Ibo, the Yoruba and the Hausi-Fulani. Same with the Sudan, as North and South were administered separately throughout colonial rule, then thrown back together upon independence, despite differing ideologies that the two sections began to develop. Arguably, Belgian rule caused the genocide in Rwanda in 94, as during colonial rule, they blatantly favored the Tutsi minority and brutally oppressed and marginalized the Hutu majority, creating dissention between the groups that remained and slowly built for the majority of the century. Even the technological and economic benefits are debatable, as most new technology brought into the countries existed to benefit only European powers, and were largely kept away from native Africans.

 

And don't even get me started on AIDS. We've gone far enough off topic as it is.

 

Africa was a war-torn land. Has been for MANY years.

 

That's an exaggeration. Pre-colonial Africa was no more war-torn than Europe was.

[Ripper 0]

I'll agree that inner-city school systems as a whole need a massive revamping. But again, you have to have parental involvement to really make a child succeed. From my mother's extensive experience as a teacher in Detroit she thinks that a lot of blacks either have kids too early to really put the effort into caring for them because they just aren't ready for it, others just don't want their kids. This doesn't apply to all inner-city parents, but a large majority that she meets are like this and it isn't helping out anyone. We need those black leaders like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to stop worrying about the Omsbundman of Bumpkinville accidentally saying "Negro" and looking more towards problems like these: To keep these people from having kids too early and shooting themselves in the foot before they even have a chance to succeed.

 

Because teen pregnancy is only a problem in the black race? You know, the EXACT same problems are prevelant in every other race and with basically the same results. A bad parenting environment is not conducive to good academics. REALLY?!!??!?!? But, once again, this has nothing to do with the anything. Bottomline, it is easier to succeed with the necessary materials than it is not to. It is easier to succeed on a SAT when the questions were actually presented to you in your education process. That is far more common of a problem, especially in larger cities, than mommy was young. It also doesn't help that most of these families are lower income families where the parents much work. Latchkey kids are more than likely not going to do homework when they get home than a household where there is a stay at home parent. Once again, these are things that are the effects of class, not race, but it just so happens that the minorities in this country make up a large percent of the lower class. And black leaders are never the answer anymore. Why do blacks need leaders? They are just there to keep the seperation even more defined.

 

Wasn't it mostly contained in the South? I really don't remember any laws in Michigan restricting blacks, nor out west. Please don't claim it was law everywhere when it really wasn't.

 

 

Please don't claim it wasn't law everywhere when it really was. Segregation, while not as flagrant and hardline as it was in the South, was present all around the country. Seperate but equal was like Communism, cute in theory but blacks were not given equal treatment in public education, public contracts, work and other areas all over the country. There were more cases of companies and schools breaking the segregation laws in the Northern states than down south, so I see where you can think that it wasn't there, but seriously, if racism was only down south, why the fuck would anyone black have been living in the south?

 

My argument is, while racism isn't dead, it isn't the problem anymore. That's stuck on mainly an individual level and will become more and more scarce as we move forwards. The main problem is the idea that everyone is still a racist and that the system will always be geared against you so you won't be able to succeed without help. The whole "thug" thing that is really prevailant among inner-city kids (Not rap music).

 

It may not be a problem for you. You seem to have the stance that racism only mean HATRED of another race. The preconcieved limitations of other races are a form a racsim that is still very much prevalent. I am not saying execs are sitting in their offices ploting on how to keep dem coloereds down, but the public perception of blacks as nothing more than ebonic speaking criminals lies in a lot of peoples minds who have not been fortunate enough to be around and experience the truth of other races. Until stereotypes die(which simply will never happen) racism will not die.

 

Oh fuck you. FUCK YOU. I just lost a ton of respect for you there. You are just as bad as fucking Jesse Jackson to devalue their struggles with identity in America by just saying "They could get over it because they were white". As if having White Skin is just the saving grace of any persecuted European minority. Not a lot of Irish people changed their names, oddly enough. I still see a lot of Thulls, O'Malleys, O'Hares, McCulloughs, and others. A lot of jews didn't hide either. They certainly didn't abandon their culture because we see so many of them proudly displaying it today. They were still used, abused, and persecuted. Thing is, they didn't constantly complain of being a victim like you are right now. They worked past it, and I believe the black race can do the same if they stopped trying to blame everything bad that happens on them on someone else and focused on making themselves better.

 

Thats cute...lets ignore what I said and go to just the part that you can rant on. The POINT of the argument is that Rome wasn't built overnight. 40 years removed from institutionalized racism, it is foolish an impossible to believe that the entire community would be past it. Irish americans and Jewish americans were in the country HOW long before they were removed from the ghettos? And hate to burst you bubble, but it is historical fact that Irish and Jewish families changed their names in the work place to overcome alot of the shit they were going through. It wasn't a rarity, it happened alot and that is a FACT. So save your fuck yous until you do some research.

 

 

Yes, because my mom is a flaming racist because of her father... oh wait, no she isn't. But her friends are... wait, no they aren't. But my dad is... wait, no he isn't. But his friends are... well, maybe Johnny. But seriously, just shut up, man. You are the one looking like the fucking moron here. Fact is that racism of any type towards minorities is almost universally reviled in today's society. It's not fucking widespread as it once was; we've come a long long way. It's not dead, but it certainly isn't a problem that is holding back the black race. And yes, being part of the younger generation I've experienced tons of racism. It works both ways, and this massive paranoia that you seem to have only creates more of it. I'd guess that you are one of the people who give me an angry stare when I smile and say "Hello" on the street...

 

I like the way you think. Hey, my mom doesn't think that all whites are racist and neither do I. Therefore, NOONE that is black thinks that all whites are racist. So you are bitching about nothing. And hey, since I don't think that it is wrong to be gay, noone in this nation thinks that it is a wrong thing? We just solved all the worlds problems. If we think like good little boys and girls, everyone else will follow suit. Are you saying because your parents were raised well that racism wasn't taught in this nation? Are you really trying to say that no one was taught that blacks weren't as smart as whites in this nation? Are we saying that this type of thinking didn't pass on through the years? You can look around this board and see that isn't so.

 

I know racism works both ways. I know plenty of black racist, and have seen plenty of white ones. That doesn't make me highly paranoid. The post on this thread said RACSIM IS DEAD AND BURIED, and for all of the people that still have to experience it, I would like to send out a hearty "No the Fuck it isn't" to ya. And lets not try and say only blacks give you angry stares when you smile and say hi. Maybe you have some fucked up teeth or something...it might not be racism.

 

*Sits and waits to be called a nig-I mean, racist. Hey, it holds about as much hate against me as that word does to you. Don't feel so inclined to throw it around like nothing, pricks.*

 

Who has called you racist. Stupid maybe...well...thats only me...but nobody said racist. Yet here you are trying to get a rise out of people by toying with the "N-word". KKKtookmybaby away you are not, bitch, so leave that to him.

 

*Gives KKK the NOD OF APPROVAL and leaves*

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Why can I find rap albums in every music store I go to then? Why do they play rap videos on music channels and radio stations? Or am I just imagining all of those things? Just because rap doesn't fit your definition of what music is, doesn't mean it isn't. Some would say that heavy metal is nothing but a lot of noise, but surely people would object to that before I could even click "refresh." It's no secret that the majority of the posters here don't see rap as a form of music, so I expect comments like this. Ironic how so many individuals compalin that people don't understand the music they like, yet these same people write off rap as nothing. I guess you guys should call all those music stores and tell them that they're not supposed to be stocking rap albums since it's not music and all, so they can send them rightfully over to 7-11 so they can be put in their true home: between the Big Gulp machine and frozen food section.

A sidewalk is for walking but that doesn't stop a dog from laying down a big, steaming pile of shit all over it.

 

I never said that I hate rap or that rap sucks. Rap just isn't music. Non-gangsta rap is its own artform. I like Outkast and J5. But any "rap song" that has a melody is misclassified. It's actually Hip-hop. And incorporating rap into your music is different than rapping for rap's sake. That's why The Roots, who I've seen live btw, are so badass. They're such an awesome blend.

 

I tend to think of good rap as a form of poetry. Like beat poetry.

 

Which is not music.

 

I mean its a hybrid definitely, but it's not as "musical" as a band with 2 or 4 or 9 instruments.

 

Then again, a lot of "hip hop" these days is more like "R n B" anyways, which is definitely music.

That's exactly what I mean.

 

There's rappers like Andre 3000, Wyclef Jean, Lauyrn Hill, X-cutioners (Turntable is instrument), The Roots and Go-Go music (that uses lil aspect of Rap) play live instruments, so a lot these stupid arguements from anti rap posters in here don't hold no weight when they say Rappers don't pick up guitars.

Please. Wyclef and Lauryn Hill are not simply rappers.

 

I kinda wonder why some posters here blindly don't like rap because maybe because its considered Black Music?

Exactly the same as the morons who say DMB is White Music.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

A sidewalk is for walking but that doesn't stop a dog from laying down a big, steaming pile of shit all over it.

 

Hey, what a terrible comparison! Big difference, guy, as music stores order rap albums and stock all the newest albums of the genre each week. MTV and other music channels and stations are willing playing rap music. So unless things are much different where you live, sidewalks don't order big piles of dog shit, and thus, I fail to see how that "comparison" is even valid.

[Guest Sagrada3099]

I would challenge anyone here who is hating on rap to create something as complex and lyrically creative as anything by Mr. Lif, Jedi Mind Tricks, Souls of Mischief, Mos Def, or Talib Kweli.

[Ravenbomb 0]

man, the original topic has been shot all to hell

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm late for some of this stuff, but just wanted to address some things...first, from one of Mike's posts:

 

So be it. I'll tell you that whites don't care, honestly, about light- or dark-skinned blacks and the differences between them.

 

Whites don't care. No group really cares. It's up to the various minority groups (not just blacks) to recognize that the "majority" in this country, by and large, doesn't care enough to keep up with their idiotic infighting.

Whatever issues that between light-skinned and dark-skinned blacks stems directly from social conditioning of blacks in slavery, which is why I say that slavery is largely to blame.

 

But, MY problem is --- slavery ended well over a century ago. The Chinese were little more than chattel to America for MANY years --- but they didn't allow themselves to get stuck into that mindset.

 

And, honestly, the black "leadership" has done more to exacerbate this problem than ANY other group out there.

 

It is STILL mind-boggling that the black community, arguably, is WORSE since the 1960's. Educational stats have dropped. Illegitimacy has skyrocketed. Poverty has gotten worse. And this really can't be pinned on racism as racism has dropped BIG TIME since the 1960's.

 

At what point will black America look at one another and say "You know, this whole fighting about the color of our own skin is pretty f'n asinine. We don't want WHITE folk to hate us because of the color of our skin --- but we don't like ONE ANOTHER because of the color of our skin"?

 

However, you seem to get the idea that I feel whites should step in and try to resolve this and just about any other problem I brought up, and that's just not true for a couple of reasons.  Well, for this point and other race-specific problems, no one would expect anyone whites or anyone else to care about them, simply because the issues don't affect them. And even if they did care, I doubt that a white person could  rectify the issues if they couldn't if they tried.  Any social issues affecting a particular group could only be solved by the people within said group, and NO ONE, not even the most racist blacks out there would suggest otherwise. 

 

But, as a WHITE man, I feel --- as many others do --- that we get the blame for a lot of things that we shouldn't be blamed for. The oppression of blacks is not my fault as I wasn't even born during the height of the civil rights movement and my family was ALL abolitionists up north or poor Southerners --- so neither group negatively impacted blacks.

 

Also, when you say whites, I get the sense that you're saying whites in general (as in every white man and woman in America), and I could be misinterpreting you here, but really, I just want to reassert that I'm not blaming the white population for ANY problems that problems that affect blacks, because even the most whites don't even have the power to cause any real problems. 

 

But that is the impression many in the black leadership give to white America.

 

And, honestly, black America NEEDS to simply distance itself from their "leadership". What, honestly, has Jackson, Sharpton, OR Farrakhan EVER done for ANYBODY but themselves and their families?

 

Its not like the Irish were poor for a year and got over it. Its not like the Jews were out of the ghettos in five. They also had one weapon that black americans didn't have. White skin. How many just changed their names, and pretended to be american to get ahead?

Oh fuck you. FUCK YOU. I just lost a ton of respect for you there. You are just as bad as fucking Jesse Jackson to devalue their struggles with identity in America by just saying "They could get over it because they were white". As if having White Skin is just the saving grace of any persecuted European minority. Not a lot of Irish people changed their names, oddly enough. I still see a lot of Thulls, O'Malleys, O'Hares, McCulloughs, and others. A lot of jews didn't hide either. They certainly didn't abandon their culture because we see so many of them proudly displaying it today. They were still used, abused, and persecuted. Thing is, they didn't constantly complain of being a victim like you are right now. They worked past it, and I believe the black race can do the same if they stopped trying to blame everything bad that happens on them on someone else and focused on making themselves better.

No one's denying that these people suffered despite their skin color, but I can see where Ripper's coming from here. As far as socialization goes, actually being white would make it a lot easier to assimilate into American society, not because of a white pride or anything like that, but fact is that as you start moving into second or third generations, whatever stark differences that separated Irish or Jewish immigrants from typical American whites simply become less pronounced, to the point where it becomes a hard to tell the difference between the immigrant group and the established group.

 

Not exactly. It's like the dark- v light-skinned black thing. As stupid as it sounds, the groups have a deep-seated hatred.

 

Irish and the English have been at each other's throats for untold years. Europe as a whole is a constant powderkeg of CENTURIES-old hatreds.

 

And, again, it doesn't explain away how Asians --- many of whom arrive here with no English knowledge --- have managed to succeed.

 

And while they didn't disregard their roots, most immigrants did adapt to American culture, and when you've got someone who looks like you, talks like you, and is of the same socio-economic status, it's a lot harder to single them out than it would to single out blacks, Asians or latinos, who's physical appearance does a lot more to accentuate any perceived difference between the groups.

 

But Asians have SUCCEEDED. They outperform EVERYBODY on almost every academic statistic known. Again, why can THEY do that?

 

Now...onto my little rant on Africa...

 

Ahem...

 

Pre-colonial Africa was culturally and economically backwards.

First off, you're tossing all Africans into the same boat,and that's not good, because it's a HUGE continent, and it is and always has been very heterogeneous. That being said, Economically, what was backwards about it? Rich lands like the Nile Valley (Egypt and the like) flourished before European influence.

 

Yes, they did. At one point, the Muslim world was the epitome of human civilization.

 

Then, it all stopped. Completely. Most of Africa doesn't seem to have progressed ONE iota in centuries now.

 

Same with places like Ghana, Songhay and Mali.  While they didn't interact often with European powers, there's evidence of sophisticated commercial trade systems throughout Pre-Colonial Africa.  Culturally...while there were no rigid land boundaries, there's not much to indicate that societies were backwards.  Again, you had kingdoms in West Africa, sophisticated social practices among other things

 

The same COULD be said of Europe --- but we all know Europe was one damned violent, war-torn area.

 

And then you had places like the area known today as Rwanda, that, while a pastoral society, had a social structure before colonial arrival that was actually admired by European powers upon their arrival.

 

Yes, and it COMPLETELY died. No other area in the world collapsed SO completely --- outside of Native Americans (though, how advanced they were is a constant debate as the attempt to romanticize their past has made actual info on them hard to come by).

 

Much as people hate to say it, Western civilization has done more to help the world than any other civilization and contact with it does more good than harm.

Much as people hate to say it, Western civilization has done more to help the world than any other civilization and contact with it does more good than harm.

 

If Africa was never colonized, it'd still be a hellhole.

 

The west just gave them some nice weaponry.

Civilization...heh. Anyway, while European influence did benefit Africa technologically, socially, it destroyed them. One, as stated earlier, imperialists imposed arbitrary boundaries onto Africa, and strategically divided the continent in a manner that benefitted their own interests and had little regard for ethnic conflicts that existed within those boundaries, which caused a lot of the conflict with Ethiopia and Somalia in the mid-20th century.

 

Oh, I'll be the first to state that the way the Western world handled --- well, EVERYBODY --- after such events as World War I was the most ass-backwards thing I've ever studied.

 

However, the West brought A LOT of good. The contributions of the Romans and the Greeks to African society IS considerable. And the Europeans, for all of their faults, maintained some semblance of order.

 

At this point, order is preferrable to the utter chaos that so much of Africa is stuck in. And the governments that popped up post-colonialism have killed more Africans than slavery could have EVER tried to.

 

Also, you've got to consider the impact that divided rule was the basis for many conflicts in post-colonial Africa, such as in Nigeria between the colonially *INVENTED* groups of the Ibo, the Yoruba and the Hausi-Fulani.  Same with the Sudan, as North and South were administered separately throughout colonial rule, then thrown back together upon independence, despite differing ideologies that the two sections began to develop.  Arguably, Belgian rule caused the genocide in Rwanda in 94, as during colonial rule, they blatantly favored the Tutsi minority and brutally oppressed and marginalized the Hutu majority, creating dissention between the groups that remained and slowly built for the majority of the century. 

 

Again, Europe did not handle things well. But, they provided order --- and at this point, order is the best thing Africa can hope for for the time being. Honestly, it seems to me that it almost would be better to just destroy ALL of the borders and topple ALL of the governments as all of them are corrupt (S. Africa is less so than most).

 

Even the technological and economic benefits are debatable, as most new technology brought into the countries existed to benefit only European powers, and were largely kept away from native Africans. 

 

Such things as sewage and running water benefitted all people. Electricity benefitted all people.

 

I'm not saying colonialism was perfect. Far from it. Europe proved to be piss-poor at handling colonies --- and, thankfully, we have pretty well avoided falling on our faces by trying to do the same.

 

Africa was a war-torn land. Has been for MANY years.

 

That's an exaggeration. Pre-colonial Africa was no more war-torn than Europe was.

 

Oh, Europe has been a war-torn land par excellence for generations --- until they morphed into a land of spineless jellyfish, but that's another debate.

 

ALL people fight. That is, sadly, human nature. The Native Americans fought. The Asians fought. Europeans fought. And Africans fought.

 

No group BROUGHT violence to another. They were ALL quite accomplished at it.

-=Mike

[Bruiser Chong 0]

man, the original topic has been shot all to hell

I wouldn't say that. The original topic dealt with racism and unsurprisingly, the racism talk almost instantly became deeper and more rooted than what was inititally being discussed. The rap talk pretty much goes hand-in-hand with the racism discussion that spawned from original subject.

[Justice 0]

Because teen pregnancy is only a problem in the black race?  You know, the EXACT same problems are prevelant in every other race and with basically the same results.  A bad parenting environment is not conducive to good academics.  REALLY?!!??!?!?  But, once again, this has nothing to do with the anything.  Bottomline, it is easier to succeed with the necessary materials than it is not to.  It is easier to succeed on a SAT when the questions were actually presented to you in your education process.  That is far more common of a problem, especially in larger cities, than mommy was young.  It also doesn't help that most of these families are lower income families where the parents much work.  Latchkey kids are more than likely not going to do homework when they get home than a household where there is a stay at home parent.  Once again, these are things that are the effects of class, not race, but it just so happens that the minorities in this country make up a large percent of the lower class.  And black leaders are never the answer anymore.  Why do blacks need leaders?  They are just there to keep the seperation even more defined.

 

I never said that it's only a black problem. I said it's a problem that your leaders have failed to address because they are too busy watching politicans like pitbulls for some freudian slip-up. It's most prevailant in inner-cities and rural areas, and most of the black race tends to be in the inner-city. And yes, class does play a part, but having kids young certainly puts you much further behind and keeps you down there, which is why it needs to be addressed.

 

Why do you need leaders? Indeed, it's debatable. Maybe you just need better, more focused leaders now to lead a community effort to fix these problems. You have an organization like the NAACP at your disposal, why not put it to good use?

 

And what did you disagree with me here on? You seem adamant on disagreeing with me, but we agree on similar points. Whatzupwitdat?

 

Please don't claim it wasn't law everywhere when it really was. Segregation, while not as flagrant and hardline as it was in the South, was present all around the country. Seperate but equal was like Communism, cute in theory but blacks were not given equal treatment in public education, public contracts, work and other areas all over the country. There were more cases of companies and schools breaking the segregation laws in the Northern states than down south, so I see where you can think that it wasn't there, but seriously, if racism was only down south, why the fuck would anyone black have been living in the south?

 

It wasn't law everywhere. It may have been common unspoken practice, De Facto segregation, which isn't much better, but fact is the things restricting blacks were far less in the North and out West than in the South, and many of those things began to head out with the onset of AA. A lot of Northern Racism things were eliminated via early AA programs and a very progressive atttitude at the time so today the North, while not racist-free, is a very accomandating and unbiased place to live.

 

It may not be a problem for you. You seem to have the stance that racism only mean HATRED of another race. The preconcieved limitations of other races are a form a racsim that is still very much prevalent. I am not saying execs are sitting in their offices ploting on how to keep dem coloereds down, but the public perception of blacks as nothing more than ebonic speaking criminals lies in a lot of peoples minds who have not been fortunate enough to be around and experience the truth of other races. Until stereotypes die(which simply will never happen) racism will not die.

 

Simple disdain for a race is still racism, even if it is mild, and it is a problem for me. Again, I get a lot of cold stares, not people attacking me in the streets (Though I'm sure there are a few people in town who want to do that as well, I probably just haven't seen them yet).

 

Thats cute...lets ignore what I said and go to just the part that you can rant on. The POINT of the argument is that Rome wasn't built overnight. 40 years removed from institutionalized racism, it is foolish an impossible to believe that the entire community would be past it. Irish americans and Jewish americans were in the country HOW long before they were removed from the ghettos? And hate to burst you bubble, but it is historical fact that Irish and Jewish families changed their names in the work place to overcome alot of the shit they were going through. It wasn't a rarity, it happened alot and that is a FACT. So save your fuck yous until you do some research.

 

Bullshit. Your argument basically "They were white, which allowed them to get past it easily enough". Trust me, no matter what color you were, if you were openly Irish or Jewish you were going to have a hard God-damn time. There are still a lot of people who dislike Jews and Irish people, but they were still able to move past that.

 

The Chinese deal with the same racism you did, a lot of it de facto, and they couldn't change their name or "hide" it with their appearance. Their culture is one of hard work and sacrifice and they were able to raise themselves from second-class citizen status to ones who continually are at the top of our educational system.

 

So what if some changed their names? Yes, some did, but the only ones that matter in the argument are the masses that didn't and were able to push past the racism set in front of them. The hatred against Irish and Jews is a very deep one and they were still able to get past it in America despite the obstacles put against them. Again, changed names is an irrelevant argument because the only thing we need to focus on is those who were afflicted with prejudice (Which was very sizable amount).

 

I understand the argument you put forth, but I don't agree very much with how you put it, which is why my reaction was so harsh. I appoligize, but I still think that the Black race is stuck in a rut with thinking that racism is their main foe when they need to stablize some cultural problems to move up to the next step. That's all I'm saying here.

 

I like the way you think. Hey, my mom doesn't think that all whites are racist and neither do I. Therefore, NOONE that is black thinks that all whites are racist. So you are bitching about nothing. And hey, since I don't think that it is wrong to be gay, noone in this nation thinks that it is a wrong thing? We just solved all the worlds problems. If we think like good little boys and girls, everyone else will follow suit. Are you saying because your parents were raised well that racism wasn't taught in this nation? Are you really trying to say that no one was taught that blacks weren't as smart as whites in this nation? Are we saying that this type of thinking didn't pass on through the years? You can look around this board and see that isn't so.

 

No, you said this nation was taught racism and so was it's children: I don't see that in with the huge majority of people that I know or meet. I don't believe it this massive movement and that the huge majority of people were taught that blacks aren't as good as whites. Maybe it's so subtle that even I can't pick it up; maybe they shake their hands differently, but I don't see it a massive disdain or distrust or even of blacks around me outside of the few hillbillies that live nearby. It's not dead, but it's not widespread, institutionalize or accepted in almost all of America save for a few areas here and there. Racism is dying off because people today aren't being taught racism, but tolerance and acceptance.

 

I know racism works both ways. I know plenty of black racist, and have seen plenty of white ones. That doesn't make me highly paranoid. The post on this thread said RACSIM IS DEAD AND BURIED, and for all of the people that still have to experience it, I would like to send out a hearty "No the Fuck it isn't" to ya. And lets not try and say only blacks give you angry stares when you smile and say hi. Maybe you have some fucked up teeth or something...it might not be racism. 

 

Again, it's not a massive problem anymore; it's something that is on the way out and is dying off more and more everyday. I think the "No the fuck it isn't" kinda registers with me that you see it still as a big problem, but I see it as something that we are moving past quickly enough that I'm not worried about it.

 

And my teeth are fine, damn it. I didn't wear braces for nothing .

 

Who has called you racist. Stupid maybe...well...thats only me...but nobody said racist. Yet here you are trying to get a rise out of people by toying with the "N-word". KKKtookmybaby away you are not, bitch, so leave that to him.

 

*Gives KKK the NOD OF APPROVAL and leaves*

 

Bah. Your original post was not the smartest in it's wording, and I'll admit my response wasn't either .

 

I've felt like I'm going to be called one any second because I'm coming on more on Mike's side than anyone else, and I suppose because of you calling him one I felt that you were calling me one. Whatever, then. I certainly feel like I'm being grouped in as one so that saying the actual word doesn't need to be said, and I have been called a racist before for my affirmative action (In real life. Fucking college students...) and I've always felt that the terms share a very similar hatred behind them. But whatever...

 

OMG DOUBLE STANDARD! I'M BEING REPRESSED!

Edited November 19, 2003 by Powerplay