WMD Could've Been Launched in 45 Minutes

[Guest Kamui]

Well, I'm glad YOU don't care, but some of us still like that little 'ol thing called "honesty". I'll use the Democratic party line for a second here and say that if Bush had just been honest and said that we don't know whether or not he has WMDs now (not that HE DOES AND HE'S A THREAT TO US AND WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE IF WE DON'T STOP HIM RIGHT FUCKING NOW), but he's had them in the past and he's been a constant blight on the face of humanity, then I would have quite a bit more respect for him and there wouldn't be all this trouble about finding the WMDs in the first place.

 

Sure, it might have taken a bit longer to get the American people on his side, but at least it would have been honest.

And, you know, if WMD was the only reason Bush gave for doing this, you MIGHT have a point.

 

But it wasn't --- and you don't.

 

Bush mentioned the ignoring of U.N mandates as a reason for doing it. He mentioned the support of terrorism. He mentioned the usage of WMD in the past. He gave several reasons for doing it.

 

If you can't remember what Bush said, that is YOUR problem, not his.

-=Mike

Oh, I realize unlike his British counterpart (who basically got fucked by Bush since he used that as his only reason) he had other ones. But saying the WMDs wasn't the primary reason is just stupid- were you not watching the same news programs as I was, where the thing he repeated over and over again was that SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION RIGHT NOW AND WE HAVE TO STOP HIM?

 

And don't even get me STARTED on the support of terrioism reason....

Iraq gave money to Palestinian homicide bombers --- so it's not like that's a lie or anything.

 

And Bush never said that WMD is the primary reason to go into Iraq. He cannot control how the media will spin a story.

 

Heck, more than once, he told the U.N that they HAVE to go in there if they wish for the body to have ANY legitimacy in the world.

-=Mike

Well, he sure as hell could have stopped saying "IRAQ HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH" over and over again.

 

And oh, okay, you mean just general terrioism- I thought you meant connections to the 9/11 terriosits. Well, yeah, that's a good reason to invade that unfortuntley- A) Wasn't talked enough about by Bush or the media and B) They focused on the 9/11 terriosits, who we have no solid proof of Iraq being involved with, rather than the ones you're talking about.

 

But I agree with you here for sure- the media did Bush no favors when it came to this.

[Justice 0]

B) They focused on the 9/11 terriosits, who we have no solid proof of Iraq being involved with, rather than the ones you're talking about.

I don't remember them focusing on this in particular, but we DO actually have a connection between one of the 9/11 hijackers and Iraqi intelligence agents. I believe we've discovered that they met in Vienna a few times and an envelope was exchanging , but what was discussed and all that jazz is unknown. They most likely didn't plan any of 9/11, but they did have connections to Al Quadia.

 

And they did play up quite a bit that Saddam gave the $25,000 to families of Suicide Bombers in Palestine and talked of possible terrorist camps in Iraq as well. I remember quite it distinctly.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

Kamui, the arguement your making in this thread seems to imply that you're more concerned about the marketing of the invasion rather than the actual effect/consequences/advantages/disadvantages of it.

 

We all know that the lack of WMD has made Bush's sermons on the matter seem more and more questionable, but really in the long run, shouldn't you be more concerned about, say, the Iraqi people, rather than constantly attempt to ram a president that you obviously never liked in the first place?

[Guest Kamui]

Kamui, the arguement your making in this thread seems to imply that you're more concerned about the marketing of the invasion rather than the actual effect/consequences/advantages/disadvantages of it.

 

We all know that the lack of WMD has made Bush's sermons on the matter seem more and more questionable, but really in the long run, shouldn't you be more concerned about, say, the Iraqi people, rather than constantly attempt to ram a president that you obviously never liked in the first place?

Ummm, this thread was about the WMD in Iraq.....so that's what I talked about. If it was about the current state of Iraq, then I would have posted about that. Pretty simple, really.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

And I love it how conservatives change the subject to humanitarian aide when this was barely spoken of back when things were getting started.

 

Conservatives Then: "We'll find those WMD right away- they've got them by the PILE FULL, right in a big storage facility with WMD R Us in big neon letters hanging over it, so we'll confiscate all of it then march into Washington with our heads held high!"

 

Conservatives Now: "......Well, umm, they got rid of it all before we made it there! Yeah...."

 

if Bush had just been honest and said that we don't know whether or not he has WMDs now (not that HE DOES AND HE'S A THREAT TO US AND WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE IF WE DON'T STOP HIM RIGHT FUCKING NOW), but he's had them in the past and he's been a constant blight on the face of humanity, then I would have quite a bit more respect for him and there wouldn't be all this trouble about finding the WMDs in the first place.

 

You have so far provided 2 things in this thread.

 

1. Ridiculous and Laughable generalisations of your political opposite.

 

2. A whiny tirade about how you heard Bush talk a lot about WMD's.

 

From reading your posts, I can't even tell if you were against the war at all. When I referred the Iraqi people, I was saying that since we are essentially talking about justification for going to war, why not actually open your mind to the things that matter and stop masturbating over Bush's marketing of the war.

[NoCalMike 0]

If anyone is actually trying to spin that WMD's & "imminent threat" was not the main stance Bush was throwing out pre-war, then you are just wrong and a revisionist. Hell, the humanitarium side of the story was barely ever mentioned until maybe a month before the wheels were already in motion. Go read PNAC where Rumsfield/Ashcroft/Bush and the rest of the bunch.....all pretty much state that they have had plans to attack Iraq for awhile now, for reasons that had NOTHING to do with "rescuing the Iraqi people" from an evil dictator, but also said they would need a "modern day pearl harbor" in order to get the public behind them. Well I guess 9/11 sent them into a frenzy.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

I'm certainly not arguing that the WMD issue was not the most publicized reasoning for war. But I believe that the reason behind this, is not that it was the Government's primary reason, but because it was a clear, easy to understand and accessable arguement that any idiot could understand. It had a greater chance of being accepted by the public than other arguements.

 

But just because it was the main issue publicized, doesn't mean that it was in fact the Government primary concern. Clearly, the main reason for ousting Saddam was to create an oppurtunity to establish a democratic capitalist Iraq, and pray that it was forsee an entire reformation of middle eastern politics. The result of this would do more economic good for the world and the US than any bucket of oil would.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Hey.

 

 

Whatever happened to Rummy's comments about knowing where the WMD were being hidden within a few miles?

 

What happened to these comments about how in 48 hours they could piece together a whole WMD and launch it out the door? Shit, the original article claims something similar (although caught sources close to Saddam and Iraqi scientists have also said it was simply a bunch of bluffing.)

 

 

What happened to all this? The typical resistance to the Iraq war, after the shock wore off that we were going to attack a country rather than retaliate in self-defense, was that there was all this talk about WMDs being able to fly RIGHT FUCKING NOW, and something must be done immediately to stop it.

 

The war was accepted more or less on this claim, despite the lack of tangible proof to back it up. If we just trusted them to go wage war, all the mysteries would be answered and we would see that they were right all along.

 

And then we saw they weren't, appearantly.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Wow, an actual liberal-dominated thread on TSM! I thought this day would never come.

 

/waits for the Conservative Brigade to come to their high chief's defense

Please,

 

Rant's not our "high chief." Not quite sure what he is on the chain of command. "High chef" maybe, but not "high chief."

 

This got me thinking -- what exactly are our ranks in the "Conservative Brigade"? Since he's a mod, DrTom would have to be the general (that is if he wants the job leading a bunch of lackeys like me, MikeSC, Rant, etc.)

 

I'm not sure if this is accurate (look at the source I got it from) but if it is, I think it's time we decide who goes where (I'd be content with falling in the Colonel-Captain range):

 

OFFICERS: General, Lieutenant General, Major General, Brigadier General, Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel, Major, Captain, 1st. Lieutenant, 2nd. Lieutenant

 

ENLISTED: Sergeant Major, First Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Corporal, Specialist 4th Class, Private First Class, Private.

 

(You Leftys can do the same, but since your side's all touchy-feely about labeling people and ruining their self-esteem I guess EVERYONE'S a general in your camp...)

[Guest Cerebus]

What using Army ranks only KKK? ~MILITARYBRANCHIST!!!1

[Lando Griffin 0]

The liberals can be Group Hug Generals!!!! 5 Star, even!!!!!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

The liberals can be Group Hug Generals!!!! 5 Star, even!!!!!

Feel free to return to never posting again.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

(You Leftys can do the same, but since your side's all touchy-feely about labeling people and ruining their self-esteem I guess EVERYONE'S a general in your camp...)

Fuck that. I'm all for ranking and labels. People need to EARN their spot first, dammit. Silly generalizations.

 

Self-esteem? Who needs it?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Well you just hurt my feelings...

[Guest SideFXs]

No; I simply don't care.  Saddam needed to be dealt with and deposed, and the only thing we whiffed on was killing everyone in his administration and throwing them all in a mass pauper's grave.  We had a laundry list of reasons to go in there, even if WMD are completely removed from the picture.  I think he had them hoarded and that we'll find them eventually, but we're a little busy with other things over there at the moment.

What if President Bush did not give the order to move against Saddam?

 

I can see the headlines now.

 

"200,000 more die this month, at the hands of Saddam Hussein and the Baathist party. More and more suffer under the iron hand of this régime, where is President Bush?"

 

You can bet on that!!! The death of many innocents would matter to the media. Now the best argument is WMD's, where are they? Well the proof is surfacing.

[Styles 0]

I think Marney has to be high up in the rankings, lest she track us down and kill us.

I'll nominate myself for a position in THE VAST SMART MARKS RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!

[Guest MD2020]

I think Marney has to be high up in the rankings, lest she track us down and kill us.

I'll nominate myself for a position in THE VAST SMART MARKS RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!

I want to be a mercenary. I will argue for which ever side pays me. Kind of like Dick Morris.

[Styles 0]

Hey, just so no one feels left out, the liberal contigent can form a group too...but in keeping with the ideology it will have to be void of rankings or positions and just be one big committee where everyone has to agree before anything is decided on...

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Uh, yeah, you guys can carry on if it makes you feel important.

[Styles 0]

Uh, yeah, you guys can carry on if it makes you feel important.

Liberals hate fun. You FUN-IST~!

[Dr. Tom 0]

This got me thinking -- what exactly are our ranks in the "Conservative Brigade"? Since he's a mod, DrTom would have to be the general (that is if he wants the job leading a bunch of lackeys like me, MikeSC, Rant, etc.)

As you were, Colonel KKK. As you were.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

OK, we've got some work to do. Let's fill 'dem slots:

 

OFFICERS

General: DrTom

Lieutenant General:

Major General:

Brigadier General:

Colonel: kkk (loves being in middle management where nothing is expected or demanded)

Lieutenant Colonel:

Major:

Captain:

1st. Lieutenant:

2nd. Lieutenant: Jeff Jarrett, God

 

ENLISTED: Sergeant Major, First Sergeant, Sergeant First Class cerebus316, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Corporal, Specialist 4th Class, Private First Class, Private sfaJack.

 

I think Marney has to be high up in the rankings, lest she track us down and kill us.

 

I don't know about Marney -- she's one of those, well, you know...

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

She's a chick

Oh what the heck, we're a big tent. Come on in!...

Edited December 9, 2003 by kkktookmybabyaway

[Styles 0]

<----PICK ME STEVE!

My qualifications:

-Am good at mindlessly agreeing with whatever the leader says.

-Flowing with cynism and sarcasm

-Think Moore is fat (although I like Moore-on much better)

-Am convinced that Howard Dean is a nutcase who is dangerous for this country.

-Since I'm technically still registered a D, I could infiltrate their camp.

-If you don't include me, I will find some way to sue you for being a JJ, God-ist~!

[Styles 0]

Cool, I guess if someone dies, I work my way up

I guess we're the C.I.A. Conservatives....dum dum dum, dah dah dum...In Action!...dum dum dum, dah dah dum...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I have you penciled in as 2nd. Lieutenant, unless the General says otherwise...

[sfaJack 0]

kkk, I request one of the enlisted ranks. My very infrequent postings in CE prohibit me from being anyone important, but I'll be more than happy to be part of the evil-fighting force.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

kkk, I request one of the enlisted ranks. My very infrequent postings in CE prohibit me from being anyone important, but I'll be more than happy to be part of the evil-fighting force.

 

Then you're our first grunt.

 

No go out there and PM bomb... -- uhh, on second thought, stand down from that order Private...

[Dr. Tom 0]

I have you penciled in as 2nd. Lieutenant, unless the General says otherwise...

That's fine. We can't have a "self-hating Democrat" in charge of too much, in case he decides to get in touch with his feelings...

 

Colonel KKK, you are now my Chief of Staff.

[Guest Cerebus]

I call Sergeant First Class, I'm not a professionally trained conservative but I've made it to where I am through experience.

[Styles 0]

I have you penciled in as 2nd. Lieutenant, unless the General says otherwise...

That's fine. We can't have a "self-hating Democrat" in charge of too much, in case he decides to get in touch with his feelings...

 

Colonel KKK, you are now my Chief of Staff.

lol. General I will inform you as soon as I switch parties, likely closer to the primary election in Maryland. Perhaps then I'd be up for a promotion. Until then, happy to serve, sir!