The OAO Return of The King thread

[Brush with Greatness 0]

So I'm assuming it can't be any worse than Two Towers. And what was wrong with the Two Towers?

 

-Everyone had a big fucking long speech about saving the world. It was boring and repetive and I don't give a shit if that's how it was in the book or not.

 

-The movie made my ass sore. It was one of those movies that I kept asking the person beside my what time it was and then it was like "we've only been here two hours. Fuck, this feels like a long time." Two Towers should have had an intermission. Not because it was three and a half hours but because it dragged so fucking much.

 

-The explosions (primarily blowing up that damn or whatever). How the fuck do you have explosives without gun powder? So if you have gunpowder than you likely have guns (or are very close to having guns). So why the fuck are all these guys running around with swords when people could be shooting each other?

 

So what I'm asking is does RoTK eliminate the long boring speeches, ass soreness, and stupid times where they make it nearly impossible to suspend disbelief?

[ANKLELOCK 0]

SHUT UP!!!

 

I MARKING OUT SOMEONE HELP~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!******

[ANKLELOCK 0]

whew. Im better now.

 

only 6 more hours.

 

.........

[Guest Ram]

-Everyone had a big fucking long speech about saving the world. It was boring and repetive and I don't give a shit if that's how it was in the book or not.

Name 2.

 

1.) Sam

2.) ????

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

So I'm assuming it can't be any worse than Two Towers. And what was wrong with the Two Towers?

 

-Everyone had a big fucking long speech about saving the world. It was boring and repetive and I don't give a shit if that's how it was in the book or not.

 

-The movie made my ass sore. It was one of those movies that I kept asking the person beside my what time it was and then it was like "we've only been here two hours. Fuck, this feels like a long time." Two Towers should have had an intermission. Not because it was three and a half hours but because it dragged so fucking much.

 

-The explosions (primarily blowing up that damn or whatever). How the fuck do you have explosives without gun powder? So if you have gunpowder than you likely have guns (or are very close to having guns). So why the fuck are all these guys running around with swords when people could be shooting each other?

 

So what I'm asking is does RoTK eliminate the long boring speeches, ass soreness, and stupid times where they make it nearly impossible to suspend disbelief?

This is a different world...don't overlay real history onto it. They may have discovered gun powder sooner and just because they have powder doesn't mean they have guns. It still takes someone inventing the gun for that to happen.

 

I never had a problem suspending belief. If you wouldn't try to look at it as taking place in our world or our history then you wouldn't be moaning about freakin gun powder like it wasn't supposed to be invented yet!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Let me also point out that in REAL history gunpowder was invented long before the gun was.

 

Credit for the invention of gunpowder goes to ancient China. Taoist alchemists were some of the most important contributors to the invention of Gunpowder. However, many different groups and individuals can be named as contributors. During the reign of Emperor Wu Di (156-87 B.C.) of the Han dynasty extensive research was done on Eternal life and some of the substances used by the alchemists were sulphur and saltpeter, and as a result many fires were started. In the 8th century, in the mid Tang dynasty, the potentialities of sulphur and saltpeter when combined with charcoal were realized as the alchemists discovered an explosive mixture which was called huoyao or gunpowder. Born was the BLACKPOWDER (actually 75%KNO3 + 15%C + 10%S). Around the year 1000, in the Song Dynasty at the imperial capital of Kaifeng, naval commander Tang Fu presented Emperor Zhenzong with improved versions of several gunpowder-based incendiary weapons, projectiles for setting fire to the enemy's stocks of materiel. Later, metal-encased explosive devices were developed, similar to land mines, along with "fire-spears" for launching at attackers. But among common people gunpowder was known best for its use in fireworks and firecrackers, so important for generating a festive atmosphere on special occasions. The formulas for making gunpowder were recorded later in a collection of the most important military techniques edited in 1044 by Zeng Gongliang. The method of powder-making was introduced to the Arab world in the 12th century and to Europe in the 14th.

[Aero 0]

Well, RotK sounds awesome. I'll be going to see it tommorrow, probably in the afternoon. I can't wait.

[Mik 0]

Just got back from a noon showing. I loved the movie. So much happened that I still don't think I have digested it all. It was just plot point after plot point in rapid succession. I'm really surprised how well they stuck to the book.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Legolas taking out the mumakil got the ONLY reaction at my theater, as it should have, for being so damn cool.   I thought the ending should have been the fade to white when the ship left, Sam and his children seemed more like an extended edition DVD scene.   And as for Frodo and Sam, it was a nice scene, but it is impossible to argue that there is no homoeroticism there, because there is. Not only am I not angry with people who haven't read the books and think that, I would totally agree with them if I was in their position.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I'm off in a bit to see an 8:00 show. I didn't like Fellowship at all and thought Two Towers was just okay, so I'll be back with the skeptic's viewpoint later this evening. I do think this'll be the best one, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it. Until then...

[NoCalMike 0]

I am going to see this flick on Friday. I enjoyed the first two and thought they were good solid flicks, but not "OMG THE BEST MOVIE I HAVE EVER SEEN" calibur movies. I will let my feelings be known after I watch it Friday.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

OMG 3 more hours and I leave for the IMAX~!

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I've been meaning to ask...did the Orc Commander remind anyone else of Sloth from "The Goonies"???

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Hey check this out:

 

What not to do at ROTK (Contains spoilers)

[Jer 0]

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Liked it, didn't like the ending. Everything after the first long fadeout (everything after the eagles rescued Frodo and Sam from Mt Doom) was at best boring, at worst laughably bad. Like, the scene with everyone at Frodo's bed had half the theater laughing, I doubt that was the intention. It was just so ridiculously exaggerated and cheesy. Twenty minutes of nothing happening and teased fade-outs is a pretty anticlimactic way to end an action packed movie, and I was very ready for it to be over by the end.   The main movie, though, was really excellent. The battles were great, and I was really drawn into the Gollum/Sam/Frodo stuff. Very well done all around, very few complaints there. The Mt Doom sequence was also really good. So yeah, great except the ending. ***1/2

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Liked it, didn't like the ending. Everything after the first long fadeout (everything after the eagles rescued Frodo and Sam from Mt Doom) was at best boring, at worst laughably bad. Like, the scene with everyone at Frodo's bed had half the theater laughing, I doubt that was the intention. It was just so ridiculously exaggerated and cheesy. Twenty minutes of nothing happening and teased fade-outs is a pretty anticlimactic way to end an action packed movie, and I was very ready for it to be over by the end.   The main movie, though, was really excellent. The battles were great, and I was really drawn into the Gollum/Sam/Frodo stuff. Very well done all around, very few complaints there. The Mt Doom sequence was also really good. So yeah, great except the ending. ***1/2

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

I thought the scene was perfect. They needed a happy reunion scene and that's exactly how I would be after all that crap happened...estatic as can be.   I had no problem with the ending other than the false finishes. It tied things up nicely

[Jer 0]

What not to do at ROTK (Contains spoilers)

Lol. Especially at the Mr. Anderson one, it's so tempting, haha. Poor Hugo Weaving has totally cursed himself, no one is ever going to be able to think of him as anything but Agent Smith.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

I did the Mr. Anderson thing at the first 2 movies.

[the max 0]

What not to do at ROTK (Contains spoilers)

Lol. Especially at the Mr. Anderson one, it's so tempting, haha. Poor Hugo Weaving has totally cursed himself, no one is ever going to be able to think of him as anything but Agent Smith.

If I'm him, I don't really care because I'm a rich man.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Well, my response is about the ending so I'll go ahead and "spoiler" it.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

I thought the bed scene was very fitting. The only character that got a laugh in my theater was Gimli, but that was just because this character who's tried to be all gruff and hard is in fact somewhat the opposite with those he cares about, including the hobbits.   As for the coda, I think one review I read sums it up well. Tolkien fought in World War One, and saw soldiers who came home from war (especially those without a family of their own) feel disassociated from society. He even felt it himself to some extent. The horrors of war had changed them to the point that they no longer felt like part of the world they had helped to protect. So, Tolkien wrote an ending that was suitable for characters that had been affected like his fellow soldiers. He let Frodo retreat to The West, retreat from society, and be at peace with himself. Meanwhile, Sam the family man returns home to his wife and kids and picks up his life. Both characters are happy, but they reach that happiness in different ways. Jackson stayed true to that vision. He could have gone the Hollywood route and end it after the crowning in Minas Tirith or even the pub/wedding scene, but instead showed that war can be a life altering experience.

 

By the way I'd like to throw in props to Bernard Hill. His turn as Theoden was amazing, and his speech before Minas Tirith ranks up there with the all-time Hollywood "call to glory" speeches. I'd say more, but I don't feel like breaking out the spoilers tag again.

Edited December 18, 2003 by Conspiracy_Victim

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well, my response is about the ending so I'll go ahead and "spoiler" it.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

I thought the bed scene was very fitting. The only character that got a laugh in my theater was Gimli, but that was just because this character who's tried to be all gruff and hard is in fact somewhat the opposite with those he cares about, including the hobbits.   As for the coda, I think one review I read sums it up well. Tolkein fought in World War One, and saw soldiers who came home from war (especially those without a family of their own) feel disassociated from society. He even felt it himself to some extent. The horrors of war had changed them to the point that they no longer felt like part of the world they had helped to protect. So, Tolkein wrote an ending that was suitable for characters that had been affected like his fellow soldiers. He let Frodo retreat to The West, retreat from society, and be at peace with himself. Meanwhile, Sam the family man returns home to his wife and kids and picks up his life. Both characters are happy, but they reach that happiness in different ways. Jackson stayed true to that vision. He could have gone the Hollywood route and end it after the crowning in Minas Tirith or even the pub/wedding scene, but instead showed that war can be a life altering experience.

 

By the way I'd like to throw in props to Bernard Hill. His turn as Theoden was amazing, and his speech before Minas Tirith ranks up there with the all-time Hollywood "call to glory" speeches. I'd say more, but I don't feel like breaking out the spoilers tag again.

That's a great way to look at the ending. It helps explain a lot.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Yeah I thought about that ending for quite a while. I had read previews that had spoiled it to some extent so I knew what was coming. My friend loved the movie but was a tad bit displeased with how it ended, and I gave him the Cliff's Notes version of above (which I saw in the movie, but not to the extent of several reviewers). However, writing it down has helped me think about it more. Of course, having an edit feature to spell "Tolkien" correctly and a delete function let this look a lot more coherent .

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

I thought it was good but the worst of the 3 movies (I think the 1st one was the best). I don't really feel like using spoiler tags so I'm not going to bother going over it in detail, at least for a few weeks, and I'll just mention stuff generally or what you can get from the trailers. The big battle, while very good, felt "Matrix Reloadedish" in the sense that it was just like the one from the 2nd movie only bigger, none of the shots were particularly interesting or innovative. The editing was mediocre and could have been done much better. On the plus side, the scenery was excellent, with both Minas Titith and Minas Morgul very well done. Ok I lied I'm going to use the spoiler tag for one thing:

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

My favorite thing in the movie was probably the army of the dead. I thought they were rendered beautifully, and I loved the way they moved and fought, like some sort of a flood.

 

I think if I watch it again later I'll enjoy it a bit more, maybe more than the second one, although I still don't think I'll like it as much as the first movie. The thing that annoyed me the most while watching it wasn't the movie itself, but the theatre which was sweltering hot, and most of all the crowd which was a seething mass of stupidity, laughing at the most cliched jokes in the whole movie (which I was silently calling out to the word before they were even being spoken - like Gandalf's "perhaps it's best if you don't speak at all" one), laughing every time Gollum spoke, cheering and aplauding (I hate this more than anything - it's a fucking movie you assholes), and generally acting like a couple hundred people with ADD. Some people have a very low threshold for what they find humorous.

 

And one more thing, that someone who has read the book more recently than me can probably answer: I found it very strange that the humans in Gondor were calling Gandalf "Mithrandir" (his elven name) and yet everyone else through the first two films, humans, elves, and so on, calls him Gandalf. I know that it isn't this way in the Silmarillion where he is refered to as Mithrandir because in that book almost all the names used are the elven forms (Curunir for Saruman, for instance). Is the Return of the King actually written in this way?

[Damaramu 0]

I saw it and I loved it. I've read the book but knowing Jackson and his penchant for changing things(looking at you Arwen) I was expecting:

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Eowyn to end up with Aragorn. Then when that looked to not be happening I expected him to somehow stick her with Merry b/c of the scenes they had together. But good thing he didn't. I wouldn't have minded the Arwen/Aragorn scene so much had she not been all over the previous 2 movies, undeservedly I might add......seriously......did she blow Jackson or something to get her role so beefed up?

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Just saw it, and for once I can't believe a movie actually lived up to the hype. ROTK is the best of the trilogy, and while this may be my inner-fantasy fan talking, it should win best picture. Some of the best momonts for me:

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

* When the wrath-riders are picking off Faramir's men one-by-one. At that moment I knew this movie was going to be good. * When they show Gollum's origin. A great way to tie in what the ring can do. *When Frodo gets stung. *When Gollum dies. All he does is look at the ring...

Also, Sam and Frodo love each other, probably more than Sam loves his wife, but not in a homoerotic way. I think what Tolkein was aiming for was more of a deep bond between friends. Their friendship mimics that of two soldiers who have spent a lot of time out on the battlefield and have gotten an understaning of one another.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I loved it.

 

This was the most satisfying film-going experience I've had in my short, 21 year-long life. It was like a 12 course meal or a Christmas Dinner that left time at the end for a cup of tea and some pie. It felt like lying in bed after coming in from the the rain where you let the warmth of a blanket take over you. I wasn't blown away by anything - not the battle scenes, not the acting, not the CGI - as it all blended into one woven tapestry.

 

My problems with Two Towers were solved here. The flow was much smoother and the transitions Jackson used to move from each story was perfect. The editing, which I'm not close to being knowledgable about but still had problems with in TT, was much better here. The battles in ROTK gave the battle for Helms deep and the tribulations of Rohan meaning, and the things established in TT paid off well. It's a shame Jackson cut out some significant parts in TT which he left in the Extended Edition, as it helped me - someone who has not read the books - get to know the characters and their motivations a bit more.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

Also, Sam and Frodo love each other, probably more than Sam loves his wife, but not in a homoerotic way. I think what Tolkein was aiming for was more of a deep bond between friends. Their friendship mimics that of two soldiers who have spent a lot of time out on the battlefield and have gotten an understaning of one another.

I completely agree with this, but the point remains that most people who see the film will think of it in a homoerotic way. The subtext is definitely there, so I cannot really fault people for thinking it. The hobbits are obviously presented so pure and innocent that homoeroticism doesn't enter into their minds - in other words, sexuality isn't an issue to them. But that doesn't mean there isn't a very definite subtext within the characters. They love each other, yes; it's very easy to attach sexuality to that, and when non-hobbits (i.e. regular people) see it, the first reaction is to think about how fucking gay it all is. I don't even really think that that's an immature way to percieve it initially. It just seems queer upon viewing.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I'm off in a bit to see an 8:00 show. I didn't like Fellowship at all and thought Two Towers was just okay, so I'll be back with the skeptic's viewpoint later this evening. I do think this'll be the best one, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it. Until then...

 

And now I'm back. It was pretty much what I expected, but actually a bit more disappointing. The battle at Minas Tirith (and I don't think I need spoiler tags to say this) felt like a major rehash of the Helms Deep battle, except that it was light out. For the most part, it lacked that scene's building tension and consistency, instead choosing to just scale up the numbers on either side. I most enjoyed the quieter moments, particularly Faramir's charge and a lot of the "epilogue" segments. But, as with the first two films, I was rarely compelled to see beyond the spectacle. For me, this whole trilogy just didn't have the intangible "it" that makes an adventure click. Oh well.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Can't....wait...to....see...it. Unfortunately no idea when I'm going to get to, the drawback of being away from home

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

For a three-and-a-half hour movie it felt rushed, at least for me anyway.

 

I've been meaning to ask...did the Orc Commander remind anyone else of Sloth from "The Goonies"???

 

I was waiting for him to say "Hey you guys!"

 

Not sure if this deserves the spoiler tags, but better safe than sorry.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

I don't understand why they did that first fade with Frodo and Sam surrounded by lava. On a personal note, my better half was really into reading this book before the movie came out and was always asking me stuff about what was going to happen to the characters. She asked me one time how Frodo and Sam get rescued and I just blurted out "Gandalf arrives in a hot-air balloon and saves them."

 

She believed it.

 

I couldn't help but laugh the hardest at that scene...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Frodo and Sam lying on the rock with lava floating around them (journey ended) is in contrast to the beginning of the film with Smeagol and Deagol in the boat fishing (journey began).