the biggest question...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Now rap battles are on Mtv hosted by Carson Daly WTF? Just tainted I tell ya.

That's funny.

 

When I had Showtime there was this "rap" contest they aired once in a while -- wasn't half bad actually...

[Guest El Satanico]

Hey look a rap related thread on TSM that's gone two days without any of the ignorant and/or close minded shit that's typical round here.

 

This is quite an accomplishment. Can't we all get along musically?

[Henry Spencer 0]

I don't know if I really have a favorite area, but looking back, it appears that most of my favorite rappers have been from the east coast. Nas, Wu Tang Clan, Public Enemy, Run DMC, etc. So, yeah, east coast.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Raz' rock/metal breakdown was pretty retarded, although I'd probably end up producing something similar if I were to comment on rap whilst knowing nothing about it. I'm dreadfully fickle when it comes to that genre, and I end up only liking Body Count, and a few people whose voices I find to be pleasant, like Snoop for instance. That crunk business gives me a headache.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

My personal rap tastes lead towards the late 80s and early 90s when it still was an artform. Once the South blew up with No Limit, So-So Def, Ca$h Money,etc. I stopped really caring. I can still listen to Nas and jay-z, but there really hasn't been any new rap that's caught my attention since Kweli's album last year.

[Guest macheteofodin]

My taste in rap is much like it is with other types of music. I don't like music in which people brag about themselves (DMX/50 Cent/Master Peeeeeee) or it sounds really poppy (Chingy/Nelly). I also hate it when rappers make up words. As long as it sounds good to me and isn't "the same old shit," I will probably like it.

[razazteca 0]

Raz' rock/metal breakdown was pretty retarded, although I'd probably end up producing something similar if I were to comment on rap whilst knowing nothing about it. I'm dreadfully fickle when it comes to that genre, and I end up only liking Body Count, and a few people whose voices I find to be pleasant, like Snoop for instance. That crunk business gives me a headache.

With the little differences between the subgroups why confuse everbody with specifics? Do I really need to know the difference between mathcore, hardcore, industrial, death, black, nu-metal, when they generally sound the same? Same thing with rap it basically comes down to party music, rap with a message, love songs or battles (real or fake).

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Do I really need to know the difference between mathcore, hardcore, industrial, death, black, nu-metal, when they generally sound the same?

 

You have literally no concept of what you're talking about here. What you're saying in that statement is that Skinny Puppy (an industrial band) "generally" sounds the same as Nile (a death band); that Saliva (A Nu-metal band) "generally" sounds the same as Goatwhore (a black metal band); that Converge (a hardcore band) "generally" sounds the same as Emperor (another black metal band). If you had actually heard any of these bands, and paid even the slightest iota of attention to the music, you would realize, quite clearly, that they do not in fact sound the same. Not even hardly. Iron Maiden is not congruent to Lividity, even though they're both metal bands.

 

That's like saying AC/DC "generally" sounds the same as Aerosmith, since they're both hard rock bands. The list of horrible examples that quite blatantly put your argument to rest is pretty large, and I'm sure you can come up with some more yourself.

 

I'm not saying everyone should keep a detailed taxonomy on heavy metal subculture, or a map with different rap regions marked out, but for the love of god, have the common sense to realize that there is VARIATION within a genre of music.

[razazteca 0]

Different style of vocals and use of instruments other than standard guitar & drum is a cause for subgroups but what about the groups that are not so easy to label? I recognize VARIATION but why argue over symatics. And yes I would group Aerosmith with AC/DC and Iron Maiden as 80's metal........I am sure there will be a Razor & Tie commercial pimping it soon.

 

As for rap well there is a general perception that Southern Rap is all about the Booty Bass or as in Lil Jon's case keeping it CRUNK, but there are other rappers from the same area that do not fit in this group. Such as Outkast who seem to be from their own planet.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

You'd be wrong, though.

 

Listen to "Highway to Hell", then go listen to "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son". They're two different styles, emcompassed within one genre. Hell, depending on who you ask, it's not even one genre.

 

I recognize VARIATION but why argue over symatics.

 

Like I said before: For easier clarity. You can't say that Cannibal Corpse and Manowar are the same thing. But if you can tell me that one is death metal and one is power metal, then you're on to something. Those are definitions that people can USE to help them get a quicker grasp on exactly what kind of band is being talked about (assuming that they know the labels).

 

Oh, and someone said....

 

next big genre: Death Polka

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...88&hl=finntroll

[Guest El Satanico]

Rock does need the labels more than hip-hop, but even complete metal heads have to admit that there's way too many labels within metal. I mean do you really need so many different names for death metal? Do the subtle differences I've seen you guys talk about really need so many different names. No one in thier right mind can say it's not pure insanity.

 

Now don't take that as me ripping on metal. I have no problem with it and I'm a fan of it too, but on a smaller scale than some of you guys.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Eh...I'd tend to agree that there's probably a number of relatively useless labels floating around, but that doesn't mean that they're ALL useless.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

All this talk of sub-genres makes me want to listen to some European Progressive Melodic Symphonic Orchestral Power Metal.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

You forgot "Majestic."

 

A lot of that stuff is just how the band themselves tries to describe their music, though, it's not like there's whole websites dedicated only to the quasisubgenre of Brutal Porngrind (well, there might be, but people are fucked up.)

 

and also, in defense of metal's nomenclature, there isn't even a fraction as many little convenient labels as there seem to be in Jazz.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

By the way, were you thinking of Blind Guardian there?

[haVoc 0]

I wish some one could explain why Beyonce or Ashanti(sp?) or who ever else is called R&B? Only "rhythm & blues" I hear today is still in country music and Kid Rock's new album.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

See, here's proof of how useful the genre names are...

 

All this talk of sub-genres makes me want to listen to some European Progressive Melodic Symphonic Orchestral Power Metal.

 

By the way, were you thinking of Blind Guardian there?

 

I literally thought of the exact same band.

[k thx 0]

See, here's proof of how useful the genre names are...

 

All this talk of sub-genres makes me want to listen to some European Progressive Melodic Symphonic Orchestral Power Metal.

 

By the way, were you thinking of Blind Guardian there?

 

I literally thought of the exact same band.

Then why not say Blind Guardian-esque then? Thats like me saying I want to listen to some Icelandic Progressive Ambient Guitar-Led Post-Rock, instead of saying Sigur Ros.

[Slayer 0]

Anyone else find it strange how two threads about rap/hiphop (this being the other) somehow turned into metal discussion threads?

 

As long as we're on the subject, I've always classified eight major genres of metal, and most all metal bands (there's always exceptions though, of course) could be thrown into one of them

 

Four "light" genres:

Power

Thrash

Prog

Pop

 

and four "dark" genres:

Doom

Death

Black

Indus

 

Of course, now that I've laid them out, I can imagine people scrambling to say "Well where does (random band) fall?"

[razazteca 0]

I wish some one could explain why Beyonce or Ashanti(sp?) or who ever else is called R&B? Only "rhythm & blues" I hear today is still in country music and Kid Rock's new album.

As of late R&B is only black women dancing half naked on videos, well that would be MTV R&B. BET R&B might include Marcy Gray.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Then why not say Blind Guardian-esque then?

 

Because, if the person in question didn't know who Blind Guardian was, then that'd be useless.

[Perfxion 0]

A little history lesson:

 

Jazz is the oldest form of modern music. One of its subgenres is Blues. Blues music progressed enough to include hooks and bridges into their music. It was dubed Rhythem and Blues(not the tag team of the Hammer and Honky Tonk Man). By the early 50s, R&B started adding gutairs and making edgy music that Teenagers liked. Soon white people started covering black R&B songs. They dubed the wite covers Rock and Roll and the Blacks kept R&B. Hence stuff like Jr. and the All stars is a R&B song all the while still doing a rock like song.

 

Fast forward to the 70s where R&B split into three main genres. Funk, Soul, Disco. Funk being faster pace songs for partying with full band sounds. IE: stuff like early Prince, Gap Band, Rick James, P-Funk, Eearth Wind and Fire, ect. Soul being slower songs with more love stuff and Motown like music. IE: stuff like Earth Wind and Fire slow songs, Teena Marie, A. Franklin, Mimmi Ripperton(R.I.P). Disco is like Funk with faster music but pop music of the time. Soul Voices on Pop Dance music with alot of 1 hit wonders. IE: Bee Gees, Jacksons, Andy Gibb, ect.

 

By the 80s, R&B started fusing back together into one genre to just split again. Regualr R&B like Whitney Houston and Jodi Whatley. With the new genre being New Jack Swing like New Edition(Plus Solo LPs), Tony Toni Tone, ect. Which just was renamed "Hip Hop" as R&b and Rap fused together(even though that is far from the truth). Reg R&B just kept the name of its older music even though it is anything but what it started out to be. Ashanti, Beyonce, Mya, Mary J. ect are just using a name for a genre completely different.

 

It is like saying how is Linkin Park and Metallica called rock(and subgenres) when ALL of them don't sound anything like Little Richard or Bob Holly?

[razazteca 0]

MX you forgot about the gospel and church influence on R&B which I would believe is the basis of the music genre.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

A little history lesson:

 

Jazz is the oldest form of modern music. One of its subgenres is Blues. Blues music progressed enough to include hooks and bridges into their music. It was dubed Rhythem and Blues(not the tag team of the Hammer and Honky Tonk Man). By the early 50s, R&B started adding gutairs and making edgy music that Teenagers liked. Soon white people started covering black R&B songs. They dubed the wite covers Rock and Roll and the Blacks kept R&B. Hence stuff like Jr. and the All stars is a R&B song all the while still doing a rock like song.

 

Fast forward to the 70s where R&B split into three main genres. Funk, Soul, Disco. Funk being faster pace songs for partying with full band sounds. IE: stuff like early Prince, Gap Band, Rick James, P-Funk, Eearth Wind and Fire, ect. Soul being slower songs with more love stuff and Motown like music. IE: stuff like Earth Wind and Fire slow songs, Teena Marie, A. Franklin, Mimmi Ripperton(R.I.P). Disco is like Funk with faster music but pop music of the time. Soul Voices on Pop Dance music with alot of 1 hit wonders. IE: Bee Gees, Jacksons, Andy Gibb, ect.

 

By the 80s, R&B started fusing back together into one genre to just split again. Regualr R&B like Whitney Houston and Jodi Whatley. With the new genre being New Jack Swing like New Edition(Plus Solo LPs), Tony Toni Tone, ect. Which just was renamed "Hip Hop" as R&b and Rap fused together(even though that is far from the truth). Reg R&B just kept the name of its older music even though it is anything but what it started out to be. Ashanti, Beyonce, Mya, Mary J. ect are just using a name for a genre completely different.

 

It is like saying how is Linkin Park and Metallica called rock(and subgenres) when ALL of them don't sound anything like Little Richard or Bob Holly?

The Godfather of Rock ladies and gentlemen~!

 

I'm a bigger fan of the more streetwise kind of hip hop, can't really think of the name right now. Stuff like Mos Def and Talib basically. When's Blackjack Johnson coming out with an album?

[Slayer 0]

It is like saying how is Linkin Park and Metallica called rock(and subgenres) when ALL of them don't sound anything like Little Richard or Bob Holly?

The Godfather of Rock ladies and gentlemen~!

[DARRYLXWF 0]

By the way, were you thinking of Blind Guardian there?

Actually, I had Rhapsody in mind when typing that.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Same difference.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Unless they helped invent it, as a general rule I don't like anthing that can be classified into a genre. Except KISS.

[razazteca 0]

KISS would be? Arena performance costume pre-glam metal?

[Slayer 0]

KISS would be?

Not all of their stuff would fall under metal, but what would (like the entire Creatures of the Night or Lick it Up albums) would fall under Pop metal (from my 8 genres listed above)

 

To clarify, under Pop Metal, I would throw glam, hair, nu-metal and heavier grunge bands (like Alice in Chains). In this case, "pop", in spite of it's negative connotation, does not always have to be negative... it's just the easiest means of classifying these groups