Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 7, 2004 I see no reason to ditch the sports entertainment stuff. If you can have angles and skits and still give solid wrestling, whats the problem. WCW did it, TNA did it. The WWF had been doing it for a LONG time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted March 7, 2004 A few clarifications based off Barber's post. I am not looking for a flamewar here, but wanted to expound on what he thinks- *I didn't break the RF story on PWInsider.com. Dave Scherer did and it was before any other major site. Feel free to check the time stamps. *I believe Eric was discussing my article where I called for Feinstein to leave ROH immediately and permanently and was praising my comments on the pisspoor original statement from Feinstein. *I didn't take ROH's side and I certainly didn't cheerlead for them in the Gabe inteview this afternoon. I asked questions that fans wanted to know and let him explain his side and his mindset. If what he said is true, ROH has a fighting longshot of a chance. If it isn't, we'll all know soon enough when ROH is dead. Mike Johnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 I didn't break the RF story on PWInsider.com. Dave Scherer did and it was before any other major site. Feel free to check the time stamps. Point taken. But it doesn't matter that he reported it before any major site. He waited until it had been confirmed, and although he posted it first, he posted it first by mere minutes. Therefore, Eric's claim that you guys handled it better than others is invalid. I didn't take ROH's side and I certainly didn't cheerlead for them in the Gabe inteview this afternoon. I asked questions that fans wanted to know and let him explain his side and his mindset. If what he said is true, ROH has a fighting longshot of a chance. If it isn't, we'll all know soon enough when ROH is dead. I didn't say you did. And I also didn't say that I disagree with what was said in your interview, or that I agree with it. I did say that you gave Gabe the chance to respond to the incidents over the past few days, which quite frankly, I agree with you doing. My point, though, is that I don't think Eric would've been fond of someone giving an ROH official a chance to speak on the matter. My point, if negative at all, was geared toward Eric, not yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted March 7, 2004 ::Point taken. But it doesn't matter that he reported it before any major site. He waited until it had been confirmed, and although he posted it first, he posted it first by mere minutes. Therefore, Eric's claim that you guys handled it better than others is invalid.::: Well, short of slandering Feinstein and hoping it was true, I don't think there was a story really until it aired on TV. To post anything prior to that would have been reckless and immature. ::I didn't say you did. And I also didn't say that I disagree with what was said in your interview, or that I agree with it. I did say that you gave Gabe the chance to respond to the incidents over the past few days, which quite frankly, I agree with you doing. My point, though, is that I don't think Eric would've been fond of someone giving an ROH official a chance to speak on the matter. My point, if negative at all, was geared toward Eric, not yourself.:: OK, well you would have to ask Eric about that. I know he has his own history with RF and his own reasons (some well stated) for his dislike of Feinstein. The way you worded it, it read as if you were commenting on my interviewing Gabe, not Eric's POV on it. Amazing what happens when you answer with maturity Barber, eh? You might just get it yet! Adios- Mike Johnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 I'm just glad that RoH can move forward from this, and, in time, forget RF and his association with the company. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 Well, short of slandering Feinstein and hoping it was true, I don't think there was a story really until it aired on TV. To post anything prior to that would have been reckless and immature. Alright...I think we need to do some quick clarifying...I agree with everything you say there. Honestly, I do...thing is - that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not criticizing your decision to wait till the story aired to post...I don't blame you for that...My point was to criticize Eric's logic in blaming people for not waiting until the story was confirmed. It could've just been a well thought out Internet rumor until then. The way you worded it, it read as if you were commenting on my interviewing Gabe, not Eric's POV on it. My post was meant to criticize Eric's POV, not your interview. Amazing what happens when you answer with maturity Barber, eh? You might just get it yet! You know there was no need to say those two sentences...there really wasn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted March 7, 2004 Hey Barber- Relax, it was meant as a compliment. MKJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo Effect 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 And while Mike's here, where the hell is in my Internet glory in the form of a "credit to" when it comes to the Rex Plex "rumor." I was the motherfucker who did what none of the wrestling journalists did, and actually made half-ballsy phone calls to someone demanding an a honest answer. And you can feel free to shrug this off, but I feel that the lack of tact shown by journalists in this situation is riciculous. Myself, who has no experience dealing in getting news besides for my work with film/music publicists, was able to get a news tidbit by simply calling the venue, a task that took all of two minutes. It's as if, besides for Bob Magee (who pussed out on the entire matter), wrestling reporters sit with their mouth's gaped wide when it comes time to deal with someone not in the business. The Thursday morning after the report aired, phonecalls should've been immediately made, with one of them being to the venues to get their opinions on the situation. That's Journalism 101 Mike, and that goes to every reporter, not just you. To present it as a "rumor" shows pure laziness on the part of everyone at that, and others', websites. When presented with something like this, a journalist's first reaction should be to go to the source. Going to the source, as I'm sure you know, allows not only that information to be confirmed/denied, but also the possibility of the inclusion of more info, such as the fact that ROH called in a crisis management company. I obtained this news Thursday afternoon, and was posted (at least the Rex Plex part) around various boards by early Friday morning. There's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't have been confirmed. Just my two cents, which I'll likely get thrown into one of 411's news reports during the week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo Effect 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 And by the way, here's an interesting little article. http://www.wrestling-news.com/artman/publi...icle_2179.shtml If what they say is true, then it kind of contradicts what Gabe said earlier on the ROH website. While I can't get to it right now, because, for whatever reason, it's down at the moment, didn't he say that "a board" voted Rob off of ROH or whatnot? Can a journalist please address this if I'm correct in what I believe I read? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 I believe the extreme video thing is cover for the other guy(s). The board thing is kind of a "whatever" thing--They could create a board out of janitors if they want, it's a private company. It looks like reality is that Cary is completely buying him out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted March 7, 2004 Placebo, When I spoke to the Rexplex on Thursday morning, they told me they were aware of the situation and the show would be taking place unless ROH pulled it "due to their internal issues." I gave Sapolsky the chance to address it himself when I conducted the interview as I was getting emails about the status of the Rexplex show. If you feel the need to want your credit for the Rexplex story, then by all means give yourself the credit. The EVE Extreme Video company has been inactive for at least a year. It bombed terribly for Feinstein. BTW, the photo posted here that is allegedly Cary Silkin isn't him. I've met him numerous times at ROH. The other person mention as holding ownership, Sidney has been around since the first show. Silkin bought in right before Epic Encounter and was behind the lights and audio upgrades. Mike Johnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kardo 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 Well for one thing they'll never be able to open their message boards ever again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 They booed Jeff Hardy cause he doesn't give a shit about wrestling anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tpww7 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 Is this true? If so, Feinstein has had a bad week. Today's Weekly Gong reported that recently PRIDE won in a lawsuit against an American video company "RF Video" who illegally produced and sold PRIDE pirate videotapes. The court judged the president Robert Feinstein to pay PRIDE compensation for damage of ten million dollars within five years divided two million dollars per year. It is said that PRIDE has had huge amount of deficit for past few years and this compensation can be recouped these deficit for the organization credit - Puroresu.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 DAMN! That's news to me. That could kill ROH way easier then Rob's love of young boys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OSIcon Report post Posted March 7, 2004 And by the way, here's an interesting little article. http://www.wrestling-news.com/artman/publi...icle_2179.shtml If what they say is true, then it kind of contradicts what Gabe said earlier on the ROH website. While I can't get to it right now, because, for whatever reason, it's down at the moment, didn't he say that "a board" voted Rob off of ROH or whatnot? Can a journalist please address this if I'm correct in what I believe I read? From my understanding, this guy is only partially right. I wrote a response about this issue a couple pages back responding to Ben Miller's completly inaccurate column (and emailed him about it to). First off, the punlic information avaliable on the web like the stuff that wrtier posted and information that can be found at the Pennsylvania State Department website (among other places) is very rough. All of the stuff I have seen was filed a month before ROH even held its first show and doesn't list any corporate officer's besides Fesintein. In fact, at the State Department, ROH doesn't have any corporate officer's listed (not even Feinstein as President). So going off the assumption that Feinstein is the only executive officer and therefore owns all the executive stock in the company (and the idea of stock in a small corporation like this is different then what we usually think of when we think of stock) is offbase. Gabe mentioned in his interview that Feinstein was just a minority owner to begin with and hasn't contributed money in more than a year. What this basically means is that Feinstein contributed capital at the start of the company. He probably contributed more capital in the startup stages and after ROH began seeing substantial cash flows, they no longer needed him to contribute more capital to the company. So in terms of "stock", we are really just talking about capital contributed to the corporation. That's it. If you are keeping good accounting records (which who knows if they are or not), there should be an account on record detailing Feinstein's capital contributions (and withdrawls) in the corporation. Therefore, they can simply withdraw the money he contributed as capital to help the company get started and then he has no invested capital (or stock) in the company at all. I would imagine that is what they are doing. So the writer of this article is assuming a lot. He is first assuming that since Feinstein is the only executive listed, that means he has a ton of capital in the business. In reality, there are others besides Feinstein who have invested in the company and Feinstein has seeminly contributed little. Not to mention that there is most likely a substantial amount of money tied up in the corporation that was generated by the corporation and thus doesn't "belong" to any one person who has contributed capital. So basically, the writer's "research" really doesn't show a whole lot. Nowhere in that information does it indicate that Feinstein is the majority owner of either company (in that he has the most capital tied up in the corporation). Yet somehow he extracts that from the information he found and leads others to believe that it is true and that some sort of sale has to take place or else Feinstein still owns part of the corporation. He fails to recognize how this process or removing a President/CEO works under a corporate strucutre. I really wish these "writers" for websites would make make sure they have their facts straight before reporting stuff like this. If I worked for a wrestling website and there was a big controversy on steroids in wrestling, I wouldn't even think about writing an article about the chemical nature of steroids because beyond the basic information, I don't have the slightest clue on that subject. So I don't see why people like this guy and Ben Miller would try to write about stuff that they obviously aren't at least fundamentally educated on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syxx2001 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 HA, that fucking asshole. Getting what he deserves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2004 The pride thing is inaccurate I believe. I remember a story about this being printed falsely months ago, too. Unless they just won a new lawsuit, this is BS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Doyo Report post Posted March 8, 2004 Gabe mentioned in his interview that Feinstein was just a minority owner to begin with and hasn't contributed money in more than a year. What this basically means is that Feinstein contributed capital at the start of the company. He probably contributed more capital in the startup stages and after ROH began seeing substantial cash flows, they no longer needed him to contribute more capital to the company. So in terms of "stock", we are really just talking about capital contributed to the corporation. That's it. If you are keeping good accounting records (which who knows if they are or not), there should be an account on record detailing Feinstein's capital contributions (and withdrawls) in the corporation. Therefore, they can simply withdraw the money he contributed as capital to help the company get started and then he has no invested capital (or stock) in the company at all. I would imagine that is what they are doing. So the writer of this article is assuming a lot. He is first assuming that since Feinstein is the only executive listed, that means he has a ton of capital in the business. In reality, there are others besides Feinstein who have invested in the company and Feinstein has seeminly contributed little. Not to mention that there is most likely a substantial amount of money tied up in the corporation that was generated by the corporation and thus doesn't "belong" to any one person who has contributed capital. You are only talking about ROH and forgetting about RF Video. RF Video was started by RF himself connecting together VCRs in his room. He built the company up and I doubt there was ever need to bring in outside investors. Even if someone only owns 1% of a company, they can't have that 1% taken away just because they get fired. If Bill Gates gets voted out of Microsoft tomorrow, his billions of dollars in stock are still his. The business world would be chaos if people could vote their boss/owners out of power and then take what they own from them. Gabe's most telling statement from that interview was "I should say that I'm not privy to all the business info" That makes most of his comments over business matters pretty much worthless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 And has this image been posted yet? Interesting thread... http://otherarena.com/cgi/post.cgi?14207&1&4&usindy I'm not saying that I agree with it or I don't, because I think a couple sentences were right on the mark and others the guy used a lot of bad logic...I'll let you people decide for yourselves. Also, two other interesting replies to a thread about the Feinstein incident, regarding possible scenarios and the like: http://otherarena.com/cgi/post.cgi?14097&1&4&usindy http://otherarena.com/cgi/post.cgi?14123&1&4&usindy And Barnett posted this on March 4 on tOA: After being the last "news" board to weigh in on Feinstein, this is what popped up on Ryder's homepage this a.m. "NEW FEATURES FOR PREMIUM MEMBERS 1Wrestling.com is proud to announce two new exclusive benefits for Premium members. Premium members can now view streaming "Best Of" videos from RF Video. The first "Best Of" video is available NOW and features Low Ki. But honestly...I kinda feel just a *BIT* - and I want to emphathize that word - sorry for the guy...I mean, he's just being fucking RRRRIIIIIPPPPPPEEEEEDDDDDD SENSELESSLY by everyone on the net...A lot of people fuckin hated my guts on CZWFans.com (Mike Johnson included ) and still do, and I felt bad about that, but he's hated by about 10 times as many people as that. And I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the hate he gets...I think he does, but it may just be a tad excessive...Imagine what the guy is feeling right now, surfing the boards and seeing the jokes about him and shit...Then again, he tried to solicit a fucking 14 year old, so I gotta say, in the honor of Scott Keith, two hot pokers up the ass of that asshole. And over at tOA, some guy called Pat Patterson a sex predator...that's going a bit far... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 Why should any of us not hate him, or feel sorry for a pedophile? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 Also...SaveRob.net was taken down. This is the new site apparently: http://home.comcast.net/~secandido/home.html And some very interesting feedback about the RF matter from fans, wrestlers (identities witheld), and others): http://www.wrestling-news.com/artman/publi...icle_2190.shtml Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 Why should any of us not hate him, or feel sorry for a pedophile? Hell, I had a disliking for Rob before this...now it's pure hate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 Well 14 hours on a plane and finally home, and in the thick of it all. There is nothing I would like better to do then talk about my latest German excursion, and expound on a positive experience I have had, but alas I can't. This is only a portion of my thoughts and feelings on Rob Feinstein. Rob please do not allow yourself to EVER enter my sight. My anger for you and your actions far surpass anyone or anything imaginable. Your heinous, terrible acts are beyond excuse and explanation. Your shame is YOURS alone and forced upon us by your arrogance and lies. Though others formerly close to you are holding their tongue and focusing their efforts on salvaging what your sick, selfish and stupid actions have caused, I have the luxury of telling you that I hope you get exactly what you deserve. My gut instinct tells me I hope you are found one morning without breath, but in reality as a DECENT human being, unlike you I hope you find some help for your sickness. As for ROH I will be at 3/13 and all whatever future dates I am able to attend. ROH is much larger then one individual and I am only coming back on the assurance that Rob Feinstein is done with ROH and all associated companies. To all the naysayers your criticism are valid, but you must also know that I am participating on the word that none of the money from my appearance or any other wrestler will be benifitted upon by Rob. ROH is something that not only myself but EVERY guy in the lockeroom has literal blood sweat and tears invested into building. This is not about "saving a paycheck", this is about saving a place we have taken pride in working in and have done our very best to build. There are others out there which I hope I will address my issues to personally (and in a civil manner) including Eric Gargiulo who's rant about Rob in my eyes was COMPLETELY justified except for the convienent insertion of CZW rhetoric which has NOTHING to do with the situation. My question is why wait till now to air this about Rob? Once again no strikes against Eric, he like MANY others who work within the confines of Independent wrestling deserve all the support we can get in a industry that is waning, so I emplore you all to remember who your wholesale comments are REALLY affecting. To Fans and Foes of ROH, please be assured that if indeed the dismissal of Rob is a fake, I have no problem making such public, handing back the belt and/or, melting it down for a new 9 iron and hopefully catching a few rounds of golf with Bob Barnett. To Rob once again, I hope your happy YOUR situation has hurt so many who trusted you to do NO MORE then NOT be a fucking sicko loser! I am ashamed that at a time I spoke well of you and your respect for my comments resulted in this. "Hey All Those Guys work for me" I believe where your words, You could not have been more wrong since I worked for just about everyone else in that picture except for you, and I hope your horrible acts will not prevent me to continue to do so. I am sure my sentiments are shared by the rest of the roster who will appear on 3/13. Thank you for the read, and I hope we can come to the BEST possible resolution to this tragic and sad series of events. Samoa Joe -Joe's Livejournal. I loved the part about melting down the title to make an 9-iron. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 I was about to Link the Joe commentary. Good stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 WOW, that live journal was...different... But damn, he fuckin ripped RF, and I agree with most of what he had to say. He also pretty much put my thoughts on Eric Gargiulo's piece in a nutshell - Eric didn't need to wait till now to let his thoughts on RF be known, and his attempt to shill CZW simultaneously was both lame and uncalled for. But like Joe, I agreed with most of what he had to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 People are going to have to rip on Rob. Any signs of friendship or support would just hurt them more than anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OSIcon Report post Posted March 8, 2004 People are going to have to rip on Rob. Any signs of friendship or support would just hurt them more than anything. I agree with this. Though I think that is more of the worker's duty than the actual company. I've read a bunch of people saying that Joe and Maff's commentaries are what ROH's statements should be like. Basically, that ROH should be ripping Feinstein apart on their website instead of being more low key about the situation. I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't see how a company that is supposed to to be professional benefits from ripping apart Feinstein on their website the same way Maff and Joe have in their commentaries. Keeping it more professional and diplomatic is what should be done on the company's official website. Let the workers vent their feelings in the commentaries but don't turn the company website into a Feinstein-bashing session just so that some people that don't understand professional behaviour on a company wesbite will be "satisfied." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted March 8, 2004 here is what Danny Maff Had to say MKJ reporting from www.pwinsider.com STATEMENT FROM DAN MAFF Rob Feinstein, I am almost ashamed of myself when I think of the opinion I had of you the day before this happened. Unfortunately, after the recent events that have occured, I think you are nothing but a disgusting pig and a slob with no integrity. I think you have no respect for those who have broken their backs to build your name and the name of your company. As the father of an 11 year old girl who I love, I cannot believe at one point I had any respect for you whatsoever. Sure Ring of Honor is yours (or was yours), but it was built on the blood, sweat, tears, and physical sacrifices of your roster. I don't have a problem washing my hands clean and walking away from Ring of Honor forever if you are going to be a part of it from now on. As hard as it would be and as much as it would kill me, because I love ROH and I have made sacrifices for it, thanks to you, the three letters that we have all taken pride putting on our shirts and on our backs, have been tarnished forever. It wasn't ROH that was on that tape, it was you, but we are the ones forever hurt by your actions. We are the ones that must face the public you won't face. You ran away on that video, but we are standing firm and hope to build our company (not yours) back to where it was. As far as this situation goes and as far as you are concerned, I am finished with you. I am also finished with your company if you have anything more to do with it, including making a dime off the boys. To my fellow co-workers in the locker room, we can stick together or we can all walk out together, but we must do this together. That is what we have always done from day one of Ring of Honor. We have made each other look good, together. We have sacrificed ourselves to make each other look good, together. The key word is together - whatever we agree on doing, we all must do it together. I think my voice will echo the voice of others in the company by saying I will continue to support Gabe Sapolsky and Ring of Honor, but only as long as Rob Feinstein is never a part of this company again. We the boys and the fans deserve this. Thank you for your time, Dan Maff WOW, I seem to like Maff more now for some reason...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2004 The wrestlers are getting it right on. That's refreshing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
