The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[The Tino Standard 0]

People are talking about Rip Hamilton not even shooting well... I think some of that slack was picked up by Ben Wallace... I didn't see a final box score, but he came up with at least two or three jumpers that you just don't count on him making.

 

Ben Wallace hitting a few jumpers doesn't cover for a lack of Rip Hamilton scoring, but it does open up the lane to get more people involved by making the defense step out on Wallace.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, I just finished watching the game (had to work so I TiVoed it), but I have to say, I guess I did underrate the Detroit Pistons. Their offense actually showed up pretty well, and I think that we're in for a competitive series. I'd still be shocked to see Detroit win it, but it looks like it should go six or even seven games.

 

Here are some observations I made during the game:

 

1. Karl Malone is THE weak link on the Los Angeles Lakers. Payton picked his spots, played good D, and deferred to Shaq and Kobe most of the game, but you got the sense that he could make some shots if he was called upon. Malone, on the other hand was just terrible. That mid-range jumper that he used to hit fading away with a defender in his face was completely gone. Malone wide open from 15 feet away tonight meant an automatic brick. He even missed a couple layups. Malone still plays good defense and rebounds the basketball, but offensively, he's turned into a huge liability, and a caricature of his former self.

 

2. Ben Wallace is vastly overrated. Sure, he gets a lot of blocks on sloppy drives to the hoop, and he dominates the weak centers in the East defensively, but when it comes to a real challenge like Shaq, he's no better than Nesterovic or Olokowokandi. Shaq scored pretty much at will, and if he'd had any help from his supporting cast, the Lakers would be up 1-0, not the Pistons.

 

3. The Pistons can score the ball passably. They're never gonna be scoring 90 points a game or shooting over 50%, but they will score enough points to keep the Pistons in the game. Thus, the deciding factor in the series will be whether the Pistons can continue to shut down the Lakers' offense. The Pistons got lucky tonight in that Fisher and Bryant stopped going to Shaq in the second half, but as the series wears on they'll have to do a little btter job of defending him if they're going to win. Likewise, the Lakers need to have some production from outside to complement Shaq even if it's just somebody like Rush or Medvdenko hitting a few open threes. I believe that as the series goes on, the Lakers will pick up better shots from outside, and it will be enough to win, but it's certainly looking to be a much better series than I would have imagined.

[Black Lushus 0]

it's obvious how the next 6 games will play out (yes i said SIX):

 

game 2-lakers blow them out

 

game 3-detroit wins in a struggle

 

game 4-lakers win in a struggle

 

game 5-detroit wins rather decidely (we'll say by 10)

 

game 6-lakers crush them

 

game 7-lakers by 10

 

no im not a lakers fan, by the way...

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

2. Ben Wallace is vastly overrated. Sure, he gets a lot of blocks on sloppy drives to the hoop, and he dominates the weak centers in the East defensively, but when it comes to a real challenge like Shaq, he's no better than Nesterovic or Olokowokandi. Shaq scored pretty much at will, and if he'd had any help from his supporting cast, the Lakers would be up 1-0, not the Pistons.

That's a little harsh; I'll never call a 6-7 center "overrated," let alone "vastly overrated." It's not like this guy is a seven footer. He's not even his progam height of 6-9; he's the same size as Corliss Williamson.

[alfdogg 0]

I'd mark out if Rasheed guaranteed game 2 again.

[Black Lushus 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...i think he knows the lakers well enough to not do anything THAT stupid...but it IS 'sheed we're talkin about here...

[godthedog 0]

nice to see the subtle "oh some of them just didn't show up" excuses. where was derek fisher? he was being crushed by the defense. he wasn't making shots because they wouldn't let him make the shots he wanted to make. can't argue about malone objectively having a horrible night, but he was trying to make things happen.

 

likewise, it's not like rip didn't show up last night, kobe shut him down. he was trying like hell, but kobe kept up with him & kept him from rattling off anything significant. kudos to him for it, if it weren't for that detroit would've ANNIHILATED them.

 

everybody made the effort, LA just got outplayed. they seriously looked lost for most of the game.

[alfdogg 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...

Now THAT'S funny.

[Black Lushus 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...

Now THAT'S funny.

what's funny about it? the NBA is about as predictable as it gets...the NFL is about the only sport where it seems like anything can happen...

 

if it was the Pacers, they woulda got smoked lastnight...PACERS FAN!

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Well, the Pistons proved me absolutely wrong, my hat's off to them. Billups was the high-scorer... Prince embarrased George... Hunter was all over Fisher.

 

Considering the magnitude, that was the worst offensive game Kobe's had in the playoffs. Also, the Lakers went away from Shaq way too much... and that's the one thing Detroit did not force. I expect 40, maybe 50, from Shaq in Game 2.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Shaq isn't the strong part of their offense though. The Lakers play inside ball well, but everyone in Staples could see that they were getting nervous to make their shots.

 

Someone in this thread mentioned a good point that when you disrupt LA's rhythm, they get freaked out and are susceptible to 6-0, 10-0 runs then. It's totally true. San Antonio went wild on them USING that philosophy, they frustrated the hell out of them on defense, then used the fastbreak to go wild.

 

The game was close till the end of the 3rd/beginning of the 4th. If the supporting cast had stepped up at that point, we would be talking a different story, but Detroit knew how to protect their lead, and when you have a defense that can do it, it's tough.

 

What LA needs to do is come out STRONG and put up points. Easier said than done though, right?

[The Electrifyer 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...

Now THAT'S funny.

what's funny about it? the NBA is about as predictable as it gets...the NFL is about the only sport where it seems like anything can happen...

Everyone and there mothers predicted LA winning in game 1. I wouldn't be so quick to predict it again.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

nice to see the subtle "oh some of them just didn't show up" excuses. where was derek fisher? he was being crushed by the defense.

The Pistons reminded Derek Fisher of how hard it is to get good looks when you're not the beneficiary of double teams to Shaquille O'Neal...

 

I love Detroit's approach: other teams try to smother O'Neal, rationalizing that they'll make the role players beat them, and O'Neal just gets his points, anyway. Detroit seems to think, "Eh, Shaq's going to get his, anyway, but we'll be damned if Kareem Rush and Derek Fisher beat us!"

[alfdogg 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...

Now THAT'S funny.

what's funny about it? the NBA is about as predictable as it gets...the NFL is about the only sport where it seems like anything can happen...

 

if it was the Pacers, they woulda got smoked lastnight...PACERS FAN!

I meant the way you said that was funny. I don't see LA dropping two in a row at home either.

 

And yes, Indy probably would have gotten smoked, I'll give you that.

[The Electrifyer 0]

I'm now waiting for OraleHolme's explaination of this Lakers loss.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

VX, the Lakers went away from Shaq for almost the entire 3rd quarter. I am not a Shaq fan by any means, and I agree with you that he is not normally the strong point of their offense anymore, but in this series he is. The Pistons defense is limiting the opportunities for Kobe to attack the basket, and he is not taking the ones that do arise... instead he's settling for well contested jumpers. And as far as the rest of the team getting nervous to make their shots, they're not going inside and back out. The wrong players are creating shots for each other. Fisher should not be creating opportunities for Malone and Rush. The open shots for the role players should come from Kobe's penetration or Shaq in the post. The Lakers need to start out taking what Detroit gives them. If they're going to let Shaq get his, then go to Shaq until they try to stop him. If that means he scores 70, so be it. But with the Lakers weapons they should always have at least one option on every possession.

[Black Lushus 0]

well i'm predicting a lakers blowout so he'd be smart to keep his yap shut...

Now THAT'S funny.

what's funny about it? the NBA is about as predictable as it gets...the NFL is about the only sport where it seems like anything can happen...

 

if it was the Pacers, they woulda got smoked lastnight...PACERS FAN!

I meant the way you said that was funny. I don't see LA dropping two in a row at home either.

 

And yes, Indy probably would have gotten smoked, I'll give you that.

I'm just busting your balls bro, as a knicks fan would with a pacers fan!

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I think this series hinges on whether or not the Pistons can continue to shut down the Lakers' roleplayers. If they can, then O'Neal will have to pull a Chamberlain for the rest of this series in order for the Lakers to win. I mean, if Detroit can hold Bryant and the rest of the Lakers to under 45 points combined, then O'Neal will probably have to go for 50+ a night just for the Lakers to win.

[alfdogg 0]

Even Tim Legler was saying on SC "I can't believe the Lakers allowed the Pistons to control the tempo like that."

 

It just. doesn't. end.

 

Well, the Pistons proved me absolutely wrong

 

Prince embarrased George...

I'm confused...

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah I heard some excuses made. One guy last night. "Now I'm not taking anything away from the Pistons.......BUT LA was playing sluggish."

[Guest OraleHolmes]

Well, as I predicted, the Pistons boring style of play lulled the Lakers to sleep on the court last night. The Lakers are Hollywood's team -- they thrive on drama and unnecessary levels of excitement. When the Pistons showed the world they were, in fact, the cure for insomnia and would be hard pressed to regale the masses, the Lakers took it upon themselves to create some drama in a series everyone predicted would be lopsided. So, the Lakers said, "to hell with it...it's more fun coming back from a deficit anyway"

 

No, seriously, I thought the Pistons played very well, and shut everyone down except Shaq. You can't even say Kobe had a great game either, for he had more shots (27) than points (25). It doesn't help either when your other two hall of famers don't bother to show up. As evidenced by last night's game, maybe there is a reason why Payton and Malone have never won a championship. Perhaps it's because they choke in big game situations.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah I heard some excuses made. One guy last night. "Now I'm not taking anything away from the Pistons.......BUT LA was playing sluggish."

Bullshit. LA got outplayed, plain and simple..

 

And it was a damn good game at that as well. It's not like LA didn't try to come back, they tried and they failed, which is unlike their losses in which they WERE actually playing sluggish.

 

Here are some quotes from last night's game..

``I don't know if we could ever defend better,'' Pistons coach Larry Brown said. ``We contested shots. We did an unbelievable job, and I think that's what it's going to take.''

``That's a good team, and we have to rise up and meet that challenge,'' O'Neal said. ``We know that now.''

``Four points is terrible,'' Malone said. ``My little boy can do that.''

[godthedog 0]

considering what the opposing team was doing, i thought kobe did a terrific job and was the top all-around player in the game. whenever he got the right opportunity, he took it right home (the pistons just almost never let him have that opportunity) & he didn't give up. the argument "he could've worked harder" i suppose COULD be applied to him, but then he would've had to pull a KG and create his own shot out of thin air every possession against the defense. the problems with that are a) he's not KG, b) this defense is tougher than any of the defense KG had to fight off in the playoffs, and c) the rest of the lakers are good enough that kobe shouldn't HAVE to do that. he also shut down detroit's biggest offensive weapon, NEVER letting him get hot all night.

 

and the "give the ball to shaq every possession and let him score 50+" strategy will NOT work. he can't win the game by himself. even if he scores 50 points in a game, who's going to score the other 30+ they'll need to actually win the game? kobe and the role-players HAVE to find ways of getting around the defense.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Oh I know, Kobe's REJECTION of Rip's shot at the end of the first half was a great statement for the series.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I'm excited for game 2 now that the Lakers lost. I want to see what adjustments both teams make for game 2. For the Pistons to win this series, they have to win another game in LA. I don't think they can win 3 straight against the Lakers at home. At this point, I can see game 2 going either way, but I think that a Lakers win is the most likely scenario. As long as the Pistons don't act like any wins are guaranteed, they have a shot. I think the Lakers will win tomorrow and then Detroit will win game 3 to take a 2-1 lead. They'll probably lose game 4 and have the series tied up, but game 5 is going to be very important here because it's their last home game.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I think Detroit has a chance to win 2 at home. Then they'd just have to win another in LA....which they've proved they can do.

And Rip wasn't even on tonight....imagine if he'd been on fire!?

I thought they played very well as a team, but this sort of speculation doesn't really hold up. If Rip had played better, Billups wouldn't have been taking all those shots. They probably would have just flip-flopped points scored. The whole team stepped up and played well, though; every bench guy had a good defensive stop or two, and that really made a difference down the stretch.

[Ripper 0]

The headline, "Pistons take advantage of indifferent Lakers" over on ESPN once again reminds me why I hate them. They STILL aren't giving anyone credit whenthe Lakers lose.

 

And as great as Kobe played last night on D (told you, great off the ball defender) Rip was off as seen by his horrid free throw shooting and him airballing about 3 OPEN shots. Not to take anything from Kobe though. he hung right with him all night...and it hurt the Lakers. Kobe didn't have the energy for a "kobe" 4th quarter. Thats what they needed and couldn't get it because he had been running track all night long.

 

And I don't know if last nigh was as much of Chauncy stepping up for Rip. The guy did average 18 points a game this year and 26 against the Lakers. He just has been off lately, but nothing that the Lakers backcourt won't cure.

 

I liked last night game, but I think that one thing that the Pistons will notice on film is going to be seen alot of in game 2. Corliss Williamson in the post. I know I said it before, but here again, NOONE on the lakers outside of Oneil or Malone can cover that guy in the post. NOONE. He can go apeshit on the Lakers at anytime ifthey don't deny the hell out of the post. With him at the 3, you have instant offense honestly because he will BITCH George, Rush, Bryant, or Fox down on the blocks.

 

Great decision by Larry Brown not to play Rasheed anymore in the first half. And I like how he was constantly rotating his bigs so he always would have a fresh guy leaning on O'Neil. Lets not be confused, yes, Shaq was a beast last night, but he didn't get the ball much in the 4th because he wasn't fighting for position as hard as he was before because those 5 guys leaningon him all game wore him down.

 

What is big about all this is that Bryant and Oneil need thier rest. If the Lakers can't get scoring from someone else, they will have to play ungodly minutes to not get behind in the stretches when one or the other isn't in the game. And coming back on the Pistons is tough.

 

This is still going to be a hell of a series. One or two of the lakers role players are going to have a huge game either tommorrow or game 3(yes, I count Malone as a role player)

[Guest Brian]

Mess Up. Edit.

[Steviekick 0]

This is still going to be a hell of a series. One or two of the lakers role players are going to have a huge game either tommorrow or game 3(yes, I count Malone as a role player)

I'm propably the biggest Maloneiac on this board and there is nothing wrong with calling him a roleplayer. That's the whole reason the Lakers brought him in. It drives me nuts when people go apeshit about how his numbers and such are down. He has a limited, but important role in Lakerland.

 

As for last night's game, it was very good. Brown really showed what a good coach he was. Lots of good substitutions like always having someone fresh guarding Shaq and keeping Rasheed off the bench, which prevents him from going nuts.

 

The Lakers didn't play indifferently per se. The Piston's defense just smothered them. They got in and messed up LA's spacing and took out everyone except for Shaq and Kobe. Very smart, and again, props to Pistons. Pistons had a slight advantage on the boards, but the were equal with assists, steals, blocks.

 

I like both teams a lot, but am more of a Lakers fan. So here is how LA can improve:

 

• Gary Payton has to stay out of foul trouble. He matches up much better against Billups. I know Fisher is injured, but Billups is having his way and getting whatever he wants when the two of them.

• The rest of the team has to score. They weren't even taking shots and were more concerned with attempting to get the ball to Shaq or Kobe. It was really sad; it was like they were more interested in doing passing drills than trying to win a game.

• Get their own defense going. Once they started playing D against SA, they started looking like the team that everyone thought they would be.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

If the Pistons win tonight, I wonder how the media will react.