The Kerry - Medals flap

[Guest Razor Roman]

I'm not a fan of John Kerry. I hope to God he doesn't win the election.

 

But this whole issue of did he/didn't he throw the medals away in the 70's? WHO CARES?

 

John Kerry is proving just how idiotic a politican he really is by trying to make the whole BS distinction between "medals" and "ribbons".

 

Why is he dancing around this issue. He should say what really happened, stick to it, and say "and what does it matter? I was an idealistic kid at the time, and I, like so many of my generation were sick of the war and fed up. So I threw some of my lesser awards away, and a few medals that belonged to someone else. I kept x, y and z medals because I felt I earned them and no one should get to me so much that I would give up such a high honor. But what does this really matter when [insert anti-Bush diatribe here]"

 

Doesn't Kerry get it? We don't really care that he threw them out, just that he can't come clean about it. His dancing all around this issue really makes him look like an idiot.

 

KERRY RESPONDS ON 'GMA'

Mon Apr 26 2004 09:04:52 ET

 

ABC NEWS GOOD MORNING AMERICA'S CHARLIE GIBSON: Now joining us from West Virginia is himself senator John Kerry. He's in the town of Glen Easton, West Virginia, today. Good to have you with us.

 

SEN. JOHN KERRY: i'm glad to be with you. i really am.

 

GIBSON: 1984, senator, to the present. you have said a number of times, as brian pointed out as recently as friday with the ""los angeles times,"" have you said a number of times that you did not throw away the vietnam medals themselves. but now this interview from 1971 shows up the in which you say that was the medals themselves that were thrown away.

 

KERRY: no, i don't.

 

GIBSON: can you explain?

 

KERRY: absolutely. that's absolutely incorrect. charlie, i stood up in front of the nation. there were dozens of cameras there, television cameras, there were -- i don't know. 20, 30 still photographers. thousands of people and i stood up in front of the country, reached into my shirt, visibly for the nation to see, and took the ribbons off my chest, said a few words and threw them over the fence. the file footage, the reporter there from the ""boston globe,"" everybody got it correctly. and i never asserted otherwise. what i said was and back then, you know, ribbons, medals were absolutely interchangeable . senator simmington asking me questions in the committee hearing, look ad at the ribbons and said what are those medals? the u.s. navy pam let calls the medals, we referred to them it is a symbols, representing medals, ribbons, countless veterans through the ribbon -- threw the ribbons back. everybody did. veterans threw back dog tags. they threw back photographs, they th rew back their 14's. there are photographs of a pile of all of those things collected on the steps of the capitol. so the fact is that i have -- i have been accurate precisely about what took place. and i am the one who later made clear exactly what happened. i mean, this is a controversy that the republicans are pushing , the republicans have spent $60 million in the last few weeks trying to attack me. and this comes from a president and a republican party that can't even answer whether or not he showed up for duty in the national guard. i'm not going to stand for it.

 

GIBSON: senator, i was there 33 years ago and i saw you throw medals over the fence and we didn't find out until later -

 

KERRY: no, you didn't see me throw th. charlie, charlie, you are wrong. that's not what happened. i threw my ribbons across. all you have to do -

 

GIBSON: someone else's medals, correct in?

 

KERRY: after -- excuse me. excuse me, charlie. after the ceremony was over, i had a bronze star and a purple heart given to me, one purple heart by a veteran in the v.a. in new york and the bronze star by an older veteran of world war ii in massachusetts. i threw them over because they asked me to. i never --

 

GIBSON: let me come back to the thing just said which is the military --

 

KERRY: this is a phony -- charlie, this is a phony controversy.

 

GIBSON: the military makes no distinction between ribbons and medals but you are the one who made the distinction. in 1984 --

 

KERRY: no . we made no distinction back then, charlie. we made no distinction.

 

GIBSON: senator, i don't want -- i just want to ask the question. in 1984 when you were running for the senate, that was the first time that you called someone in from labor because they were upset that you had thrown ribbons away.

 

KERRY: no.

 

GIBSON: you called them and you made the distinction and said i didn't throw my medals away. i just threw the ribbons away. you made the distinction.

 

KERRY: i was asked specifically in greater detail about what took place. i answered the question truthfully. which is consistent with what happened in 1971. i mean, charlie, go back and get the file footage. there are were millions of people watching. i took my ribbons off my chest just as other veterans did. this is a phony controversy. this is being pushed yesterday by karen hughes of the white house on fox. it shows up at a several different stations at the same time. the republicans are running $10 million this week to attack my credentials on defense. this comes from a president who can't even show or prove that he showed up for duty in the national guard.

 

GIBSON: senator --

 

KERRY: i'm not going to stand for it. i'm in the going to stand for it.

 

GIBSON: i-understand you are feeling politics is behind this. but i ask you, is it not --

 

KERRY: i know politics is behind this.

 

GIBSON: when trying to appeal to the anti-war people in 1971, you said as in that interview, it was the medals and then when the people who supported the war were giving you political problems, you then said i didn't throw the medals away 13 years later.

 

KERRY: that's the most -- with all due respect, that's the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. because i stood up in front of the country, in front of cameras, a reporter of the ""boston globe"" got it correct . he wrote about the medals but knew they were my ribbons. everybody understood what we were doing. i even said in that interview we threw away the symbols of what our country gave us for what we had gone through. and if i was -- you know, back then, trying to appeal to somebody, i stood up against richard nixon, stood up against the withar, took a position, and it wasn't popular, and it was polarizing. i didn't have to do it. if i was trying to hide something, i would have never stood there in floment of everybody and thrown them over the fence. i threw my ribbons over. i threw the medals of two veterans who asked me to throw them over, after the ceremony, completely separate, and i'm the one -- if hi something to hide, i'm the one who made it known exactly what happened. to me, it is one in the same. and i'm proud of it.

 

GIBSON: let me ask you, too, about two other things that you have said. subsequent to that. 1985, you said to ""the washington post,"" it is such a personal thing i did no want to throw my medals away. then 1996, you said to the ""boston globe,"" i didn't bring my own medals to throw because i didn't have time to go home and get them. which one was it?

 

KERRY: i expressed there was great sense of wrench being the whole thing. many of us -- we had a long argument the night before, charlie. it is a matter of record. as to how we were going to do it. and the vote was taken. i was not in favor of throwing them over the fence. i thought we ought to lay them on a table and put them in front of people in a way that, you know, wouldn't be as challenging to many americans. other veterans felt otherwise. they took a vote. the vote was made, they voted to throw. i threw my ribbons. i didn't have my medals. it is very simple . what the republicans are trying to do is make this into an issue because they have no record to run on and they can't go out and talk about jobs or health care or environment. they are going to attack 35 years ago. last week in an unprecedented attack, they sent congressmen to the floor of the senate of the house to attack me on the anniversary of my speech. george bush has yet to explain to america whether or no t to tell the truth about whether he showed up for duty. i'm not going to get attack order something i did that's a matter of record that the press saw, that i did in front of the entire nation and everyone then understood there was no distinction. we threw away the symbols of the war. i'm proud i stood up and fought stood up and fought against it. proud i took on richard nixon. and i think to this day, there's no distinction between the two.

 

GIBSON: all right. senator, i appreciate your being with us this morning. i'm glad to have you here. thank you. all the best. diane?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I don't care, but I think it's funny.

 

What's even better though is this recent "I don't own a SUV, but my family does" flap...

[Vyce 0]

I don't care, but again: if the left was going to make an issue out of Bush's National Guard service, they should have expected this type of shit to start about Kerry.

[Guest Astro]

Gibson ruled on GMA this morning. He kept drilling Kerry (and i want Kerry to win, so this isn't just some republican saying "Good Kerry looked like crap"

 

 

Kerry's confident grin at the begining caught my eye as well

[Guest MikeSC]

Gibson ruled on GMA this morning. He kept drilling Kerry (and i want Kerry to win, so this isn't just some republican saying "Good Kerry looked like crap"

 

 

Kerry's confident grin at the begining caught my eye as well

UNFORTUNATELY, Kerry still hasn't answered much of anything. ALSO, from ABCNews:

 

Discarded Decorations

Videotape Contradicts John Kerry’s Own Statements Over Vietnam Medals

By Brian Ross and Chris Vlasto

ABCNEWS.com

April 26— Contradicting his statements as a candidate for president, Sen. John Kerry claimed in a 1971 television interview that he threw away as many as nine of his combat medals to protest the war in Vietnam.

 

"I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals," Kerry said in an interview on a Washington, D.C., news program on WRC-TV called Viewpoints on Nov. 6, 1971, according to a tape obtained by ABCNEWS.

Throughout his presidential campaign, Kerry has denied that he threw away any of his medals during an anti-war protest in April 1971.

 

Calling it a "phony controversy" instigated by the Republican party, Kerry said on Good Morning America today that he has always accurately said what took place. "I threw my ribbons. I didn't have my medals. It is very simple."

 

He also said he — and the military — didn't make a distinction between medals and ribbons. "We threw away the symbols of what our country gave us for what we had gone through," he said.

 

And in an interview with ABCNEWS' Peter Jennings last December, he said it was a "myth."

 

But Kerry told a much different story on Viewpoints. Asked about the anti-war veterans who threw their medals away, Kerry said "they decided to give them back to their country."

 

Kerry was asked if he gave back the Bronze Star, Silver Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for combat duty as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam. "Well, and above that, gave back the others," he said.

 

The statement directly contradicts Kerry's most recent claims on the disputed subject to the Los Angeles Times last Friday. "I never ever implied that I did it, " Kerry told the newspaper, responding to the question of whether he threw away his medals in protest.

 

"I'm proud of my medals. I always was proud of them," he told Jennings in December, adding that he had only thrown away his "ribbons" and the medals of two other veterans who could not attend the protest.

 

Flip Flop?

 

The disputed incident happened 33 years ago this past weekend, on April 23, 1971, when Kerry led the group Vietnam Veterans Against the War in a protest against the war they fought.

 

Many veterans were seen throwing their medals and ribbons over the fence in front of the U.S. Capitol. The Boston Globe and other newspapers reported that Kerry was among these veterans.

 

"In a real sense, this administration forced us to return our medals because beyond the perversion of the war, these leaders themselves denied us the integrity those symbols supposedly gave our lives," Kerry said the following day.

 

But in 1984, when he first ran for the U.S. Senate, Kerry revealed he still had his medals. According to a Boston Globe report on April 15, 1984, union officials had expressed uneasiness with Kerry's candidacy because he had thrown his medals away. Kerry acknowledged the medals he threw away were, in fact, another soldier's medals. He reportedly invited a union official home to personally inspect his Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, awarded for his combat duty as a Navy lieutenant.

 

In the 1971 Viewpoints interview, he made no mention of the ribbons or the medals belonging to another veteran.

 

And in 1988, Kerry again clarified his statement by saying he threw out ribbons he had been awarded for three combat wounds, but not his medals. "I was proud of my personal service and remain so," he told the National Journal.

 

Eight years later in 1996, Kerry said while he did throw out his ribbons, he didn't throw out his own medals because he "didn't have time to go home [to New York] and get them," he told The Boston Globe.

 

Kerry's campaign Web site says he "is proud of the work he did to end the war. The Nixon Administration made John Kerry one of its targets and Republicans have been smearing him ever since. John Kerry threw his ribbons and the medals of two veterans who could not attend the event, and said, 'I am not doing this for any violent reasons, but for peace and justice, and to try to make this country wake up once and for all.'" 

 

ABCNEWS' Madeleine Sauer contributed to this report.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/In...als_040425.html

 

So, odds are, in 1971, he lied to try and make himself look good for a future political career --- and it's biting him in the BUTT today.

-=Mike

[Some Guy 0]

GIBSON: the military makes no distinction between ribbons and medals but you are the one who made the distinction. in 1984 --

 

KERRY: no . we made no distinction back then, charlie. we made no distinction.

 

GIBSON: you called them and you made the distinction and said i didn't throw my medals away. i just threw the ribbons away. you made the distinction.

 

KERRY: i was asked specifically in greater detail about what took place. i answered the question truthfully. which is consistent with what happened in 1971. i mean, charlie, go back and get the file footage. there are were millions of people watching. i took my ribbons off my chest just as other veterans did. this is a phony controversy. this is being pushed yesterday by karen hughes of the white house on fox. it shows up at a several different stations at the same time. the republicans are running $10 million this week to attack my credentials on defense. this comes from a president who can't even show or prove that he showed up for duty in the national guard.

 

Wait, he said that there was no distinction made between ribbons and medals and then goes on to make one. OK.

 

KERRY: i expressed there was great sense of wrench being the whole thing. many of us -- we had a long argument the night before, charlie. it is a matter of record. as to how we were going to do it. and the vote was taken. i was not in favor of throwing them over the fence. i thought we ought to lay them on a table and put them in front of people in a way that, you know, wouldn't be as challenging to many americans. other veterans felt otherwise. they took a vote. the vote was made, they voted to throw. i threw my ribbons. i didn't have my medals. it is very simple . what the republicans are trying to do is make this into an issue because they have no record to run on and they can't go out and talk about jobs or health care or environment. they are going to attack 35 years ago. last week in an unprecedented attack, they sent congressmen to the floor of the senate of the house to attack me on the anniversary of my speech. george bush has yet to explain to america whether or no t to tell the truth about whether he showed up for duty. i'm not going to get attack order something i did that's a matter of record that the press saw, that i did in front of the entire nation and everyone then understood there was no distinction. we threw away the symbols of the war. i'm proud i stood up and fought stood up and fought against it. proud i took on richard nixon. and i think to this day, there's no distinction between the two.

 

Wasn't Bush's National Guard service also "35 years ago"? Hello pot, my name is kettle and you are black.

 

And did Bush's and Cheney's DUIs happen over 30 years ago, 50 or so in Cheney's case? But that didn't stop them from bringing that up in 2000, did it? I didn't think so. What you have here is pay back and typically bullies don't like it when they get a taste of their own medicine. Clinton didn't like it either.

 

Razor Roman

Why is he dancing around this issue. He should say what really happened, stick to it, and say "and what does it matter? I was an idealistic kid at the time, and I, like so many of my generation were sick of the war and fed up. So I threw some of my lesser awards away, and a few medals that belonged to someone else. I kept x, y and z medals because I felt I earned them and no one should get to me so much that I would give up such a high honor. But what does this really matter when [insert anti-Bush diatribe here]"

 

Because that would be taking a definitive stance on something and John Kerry isn't about to do anything as crazy as that. Come on, having a core set of beliefs (aside from tax the shit out of the rich) is so passe.

 

I was talking to a Kerry supporter (a fat, nerdy kid with a a unibrow) and asked him is he had a problem with Kerry's flip-flopping and he told me no, because of the nuance(sp?) involved. My response, "where's the nuance in saying somethign one day and then sayign the opposite the next?" He had no answer.

 

To answer the question of the thread: No, I don't care whether he threw his medals, ribbons, or anythign else over a fence in 1971. What I do care about is his inability to tell teh truth (at least on a consistant basis). Saying that the Vietnam War was a bad idea is hardly revolutionary, protesting the war is not either. John Kerry is already on record as the leader of Veterans Against the War, why not just admit that he threw his medals or somebody else's adn just move on. By denying it or lying about it or talking in circles about it and crying right wing conpirisy he is only feeding into the President's hands. That is bad politics. I still maintain that if Clinton had just come on TV and said "I made a very poor decision and I did have relations with that young woman. I have embarrassed myself, I have violated teh trust of my wife, and above all I have embarrassed and violated teh trust of the people of America" or some such thing he would have taken a whole lot of ammo away from the GOP. But he didn't and that got him impeached.

 

BTW, this whole "medals/ribbons" thing reminds me a lot of Clinton questioning the meaning of the word "is".

[NoCalMike 0]

"Clinton didn't like it either"

Seriously, LOL.

[Some Guy 0]

"Clinton didn't like it either" 

Seriously, LOL.

I;m not sure what is so funny about that. He and the Dems pulled all types of shit on the GOP for a long time and they fought back in the same way that they had been attacked and guess what, the Dems and Clinton didn't like it.

 

What I'm saying is, if you want to take shots at people you better be willing to accept them when they come your way. John Kerry has taken way more shots at Bush than he had taken at him. Payback's a bitch.

[Vyce 0]

That was the point of my initial post.

 

I don't care about what happened thirty, thirty-five years ago, in regards to EITHER Kerry or Bush's military service, and I doubt too many people do.

 

But if Dems / libs are going to criticize Bush for his record, they SHOULD have expected that Kerry's record be called into question.

 

Unless they're just totally naive.

[Guest Ram]

I'll just be glad when we can get past this petty shit. I don't care if Bush was on sugar high when he was nine. I don't care if Kerry supported communism in middle school. By God, just get past it already.

[Guest MikeSC]

"Clinton didn't like it either" 

Seriously, LOL.

I;m not sure what is so funny about that. He and the Dems pulled all types of shit on the GOP for a long time and they fought back in the same way that they had been attacked and guess what, the Dems and Clinton didn't like it.

 

What I'm saying is, if you want to take shots at people you better be willing to accept them when they come your way. John Kerry has taken way more shots at Bush than he had taken at him. Payback's a bitch.

Heck, you want cute?

 

After the interview, when he thought the interview was done, he said (and, accordign to Drudge, it is on tape), that Charles Gibson and the GMA staff must be working for the RNC.

-=Mike

...BTW, I thought he said Bush's Nat'l Guard service wasn't an issue...yet another Kerry lie

[Ripper 0]

This is some of the most pathetic shit I have ever seen in my LIFE.

 

Both sides are looking like little whiney bitches honestly.

 

I watch the funniest soundbite ever of John Kerry saying "This is just another ploy of the bush administration to steer away from the issues. What happened 35 years ago is not what is important, why should I have to answer questions about this. I want to focus on the issues. And president Bush still hasn't answered questions about his National Guard service."

 

What. In. The. Fuck.

 

Then the bush end gives the same soundbite basically, just backwards. Why should bush answer questions about something that happened 35 years ago its not important...Kerry threw away his medals by the way then said he didn't.

 

This is amazing.

 

Like I said, it would take SOME kinda retard running against him for bush to get reelected easily. Some kinda retard.

[BX 0]

I'm voting for the guy who didn't wave at Stevie Wonder.

[Guest thebigjig]

I was listening to NPR yesterday on the drive home and they played soundbites from the Cheney speech the other day and McAuliffe's response... which of course, is the default response now from the Kerry campaign everytime an issue is raised...

 

"Cheney didnt go to Vietnam... he got student deferments... John Kerry served in Vietnam and is a decorated war hero"

 

Which of course had NOTHING to do with Kerry's voting record, which Cheney was talking about

[Styles 0]

I'm voting for the guy who didn't wave at Stevie Wonder.

That rumor was false http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bushwave.htm

[Guest Cerebus]

This is some of the most pathetic shit I have ever seen in my LIFE.

 

Both sides are looking like little whiney bitches honestly.

 

I watch the funniest soundbite ever of John Kerry saying "This is just another ploy of the bush administration to steer away from the issues. What happened 35 years ago is not what is important, why should I have to answer questions about this. I want to focus on the issues. And president Bush still hasn't answered questions about his National Guard service."

 

What. In. The. Fuck.

 

Then the bush end gives the same soundbite basically, just backwards. Why should bush answer questions about something that happened 35 years ago its not important...Kerry threw away his medals by the way then said he didn't.

 

This is amazing.

 

Like I said, it would take SOME kinda retard running against him for bush to get reelected easily. Some kinda retard.

I hate to make "I agree" posts....but I agree.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

[Guest MikeSC]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

He served in the Guard. He didn't protest the war. He never has.

-=Mike

[Ripper 0]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

He served in the Guard. He didn't protest the war. He never has.

-=Mike

Okay, you know what?

 

He didn't okay. he didn't do a thing. He took the smart way out, and didn't really serve, Cliton ran to Canada like the pot smoking hippie he was, and Kerry was pissed, hated the war and tossed his medals when he got back.

 

Why ANY of this matters is beyond me.

 

Hell, it would be easier to take shots at coke snortin alcholic Bush. that happened more recently and is just as relevant.

[Guest thebigjig]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

He served in the Guard. He didn't protest the war. He never has.

-=Mike

So? Damn that John Kerry for protesting an unjust stupid war that every sane person today understands was ridiculously stupid... damn him for being mad at a government that lied to us for years, and in return cost us 68,000...

 

oh wait, I forgot... textbook definitive rule for being a patriot: keep your mouth shut, commie

[bobobrazil1984 0]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

He served in the Guard. He didn't protest the war. He never has.

-=Mike

well there ya go. He didn't even raise a single voice against the biggest bullshit war in United States history!?!? Nor did he fight?

This is why I think Bush should lay off the vietnam stuff. He didn't fight, nor did he protest. No matter what nonsense about medals and ribbons, he always comes out behind Kerry on Vietnam. Every time. So I dont see why they keep harping on Kerry's military issues (I assume their reasoning is 'well he brings it up' but it still doesnt change the fact that Bush always comes out behind on this issue). I would have some respect for Bush on the vietnam issue if he said "I didn't go to Vietnam because I felt the war was bullshit"

[Guest MikeSC]

this is a pretty lame controversy. I just can't take any criticisms relating to Vietnam seriously when its coming from the Bush camp. Maybe if BUsh had protested openly about what bullshit Vietnma was, I would care, but as far as I know he didn't.

He served in the Guard. He didn't protest the war. He never has.

-=Mike

Okay, you know what?

 

He didn't okay. he didn't do a thing.

Wow, being a fighter pilot is "not doing a thing"? Amazing.

So? Damn that John Kerry for protesting an unjust stupid war that every sane person today understands was ridiculously stupid.

Wow, STILL condemning ANY view different than yours to the dustbin of irrelevancy? Cute.

damn him for being mad at a government that lied to us for years, and in return cost us 68,000...

 

oh wait, I forgot... textbook definitive rule for being a patriot: keep your mouth shut, commie

Oh, I'm sorry --- if you happen to support something YOU don't like, you must NOT be a patriot.

 

My bad.

well there ya go. He didn't even raise a single voice against the biggest bullshit war in United States history!?!? Nor did he fight?

This is why I think Bush should lay off the vietnam stuff.

News flash --- MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T PROTEST. Heck, it's hard to find polls where a majority EVER OPPOSED it.

 

And Bush ISN'T BRINGING UP VIETNAM. It's Kerry who mentions it ad nauseum.

He didn't fight, nor did he protest.

He was a fighter pilot with the Guard --- not exactly a cushy assignment.

 

And I love this "Real Americans protested" crap.

No matter what nonsense about medals and ribbons, he always comes out behind Kerry on Vietnam. Every time. So I dont see why they keep harping on Kerry's military issues (I assume their reasoning is 'well he brings it up' but it still doesnt change the fact that Bush always comes out behind on this issue). I would have some respect for Bush on the vietnam issue if he said "I didn't go to Vietnam because I felt the war was bullshit"

I'd respect Kerry if he could think of a reason for anybody to vote for him outside of a phantom Purple Heart.

-=Mike

[Hektik 0]

Wow, being a fighter pilot is "not doing a thing"? Amazing.

When you know you are never going to go to a war, it is.

 

Look, if it were up to me, this election would strictly be about the issues. But that is not the case. As for Bush's past, it does anger a lot of people and I will tell you why I think that is. Bush has created an image for himself as a tough talking Texas cowboy. So when you look into his past you see that when he had his chance to "walk the walk," he didn't. His father jumped him in front of 500 other people to get him a spot in the National Guard. In a unit that also included sons of another politician and Dallas Cowboy football players. Then being able to get a deferment to work on a political campaign. All of that is why his past is always questioned.

[Guest MikeSC]

Wow, being a fighter pilot is "not doing a thing"? Amazing.

When you know you are never going to go to a war, it is.

 

Look, if it were up to me, this election would strictly be about the issues. But that is not the case. As for Bush's past, it does anger a lot of people and I will tell you why I think that is. Bush has created an image for himself as a tough talking Texas cowboy. So when you look into his past you see that when he had his chance to "walk the walk," he didn't. His father jumped him in front of 500 other people to get him a spot in the National Guard. In a unit that also included sons of another politician and Dallas Cowboy football players. Then being able to get a deferment to work on a political campaign. All of that is why his past is always questioned.

And Kerry has his own questions to answer.

 

Kerry is hardly glowing here.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

BTW --- the Village Voice, that key cog of the vast, right-wing conspiracy, is trying to get the DNC to dump John Kerry.

-=Mike

[bobobrazil1984 0]

News flash --- MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T PROTEST. Heck, it's hard to find polls where a majority EVER OPPOSED it.

 

And Bush ISN'T BRINGING UP VIETNAM. It's Kerry who mentions it ad nauseum.

Yup, you are correct, Kerry does bring up Vietnam a lot, and more than he should, most likely for political gain.

 

So what do the Republicans do in response? Imply that throwing those ribbons or whatever in protest was a BAD THING!?!? It was a good thing. He has them now? They're his fucking medals that he earned in the war.

That speaking out vocally about the bullshit Vietnam was, was a bad thing? It was a good thing.

Start with allt he hanoi jane kerry talk? All that stuff which is coming from everywhere.

 

Nothing Kerry did in those times regarding Vietnam was bad in my eyes. He saw people dying over there for NOTHING and came back and vocally protested it. Good on him.

 

There's something to be said for the idea of him exploiting Vietnam for political gain, but its damned obvious that's not all that's being said. Now there's an attack on his military record coming from the right (if not bush specifically), but that doesn't change the fact that everything he did at that time was fucking right. That's what bothering me moreso, even if they're not saying it they are sure implying it. There's this disconcerting feeling coming from some on the right, which seems to give off the impression that they dont think Vietnam was bad in of itself, but that we failed because of people like Kerry. Maybe its imagined (and probably not coming directly from the Bush campaign, just thsoe on his side).

Even if Kerry is exploiting every CORRECT thing he did in that time, it's STILL, EVEN WITH THAT EXPLOTATION KNOLEDGE, difficult to take any criticism regarding that era coming from Bush, supporter of the Vietnam war.

 

The right is playing the game of "well Kerry's being bad, so we're gonna be worse" and it leaves an incredible sour taste in my moderate mouth.

There are tons of other dumbass Kerry things to criticize him over, (like oh I dont know, that spotty voting record). This vietnam stuff is fucking stupid.

[Vyce 0]

this disconcerting feeling coming from some on the right, which seems to give off the impression that they dont think Vietnam was bad in of itself

 

Because it wasn't.

[Guest thebigjig]

Vyce and Mike think the war in Vietnam was just and hunky dory?? Color me shocked! lol

[Vyce 0]

It was fought wrong.

 

But the entire premise of the war was justified.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Vyce and Mike think the war in Vietnam was just and hunky dory?? Color me shocked! lol

Vietnam rocked, but then again I was stationed at the base with the log ride...