A look back at Lesnar vs Goldberg

[Guest Thrashist]

With the release of the Wrestlemania XX DVD, it was my first look at how Lesnar vs Goldberg played out on TV, as opposed to in attendance at Madison Square Garden. And I must say, it will go down as one of the most infamous matches in WWE history.

 

The scenario was perfect. Lesnar and Goldberg were two outsiders to the wrestling business who together had some of the greatest names ever put them over. And yet, they didn't have an appreciation for the business. What better way to send them both a cold, cruel goodbye than on one of the biggest nights in the history of the industry?

 

The funny thing is, for months, we saw headlines like this:

 

"Sources indicate Vince McMahon is still sold on the idea of Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar as the main event of WrestleMania XX."

 

When champion Lesnar and champion Goldberg confronted each other at Survivor Series, this match being the main event seemed possible. When Goldberg lost the title and began losing favor within the company, it looked like he would move to Smackdown to lose to Lesnar for the title. Then when a Goldberg contract renewal seemed impossible, it seemed like the match would be a very high-profile special attraction match with no titles involved.

 

And so it was. It was almost certain that the WWE-created much-improved Lesnar would squash the WCW-made departing Goldberg. I remember having such a positive impression of Lesnar at the time because his size, workrate and improved mic skills had struck the perfect balance between my interests and those of Vince. And he was the absolute center of Smackdown. Everything revolved around Brock Lesnar. Meanwhile, I figured Goldberg would be booed out of the building come March 14th and the fans would back Lesnar fully a la Summerslam '02. I guess I had it half right.

 

Then Lesnar made a mistake. He not only announced he was leaving the business, but also four days before one of the biggest events in the history of the business. If he had only waited five more days, he likely would have gotten the win and he would have been cheered 110%.

 

When I was in line waiting to enter MSG, the fans were irate at Lesnar. That was clearly the main news story of the day. I don't know how many people at MSG knew about Lesnar quitting before getting to the building, but every single person who stepped in line would soon find it. It spread..fast.

 

When a promo for Lesnar vs Goldberg began prior to their match, there was a tremendous buzz in the building. The atmosphere changed. It wasn't even like that when Flair and Rock had their little exchange. This was a buzz. And then both men came out. The fans were all over Lesnar. When Goldberg came out, there was a pretty decent Goldberg chant. I remember thinking to myself that I hope the fans would turn on Goldberg. They soon would badly.

 

As for the match, being in the audience gave me a different perspective on the booking of the match than those watching on TV judging by reading reviews. Between the long staredown and both men continuously falling down at once, I knew right then and there that the bookers wanted this match to fail badly. They expected this reaction, and wanted it. JR and King may have been a distraction for those watching on TV, so it may have seemed like Goldberg and Lesnar were just lazy. While that may be true, I also think they were just instructed to fail. I was really hoping for a schmozz ending where Austin would stop the match midway and just squash both men. The fans were just brutal. 3/4ths into the match half the arena was looking at an upper section (one diagonally above mine) where this Hogan imposter was doing Hogan-like things.

 

It was a hilarious match to watch and will go down as one of my favorite experiences..ever. As the bizarro world version of Rock/Hogan from two years prior, it was such a legendary match to be in the crowd for. If it were not for the tremendous main event with Benoit winning the title, I think L/G would have been the highlight of my night..and many others I'm sure.

 

List of chants:

 

Goldberg

You Sold Out

Goodbye song

Austin

Lesnar sucks

We Want Bret

This Match Sucks

Goldberg sucks

Hogan

Boring

We Want Hogan

 

A couple of notes:

 

Here's a 'what if': What would have happened if the Austin beating his girlfriend news happened the week of Mania? I think no matter what happens, Austin will always be liked over Lesnar and Goldberg, but MSG was just antsy for Austin to stun both men. I don't see that happening if a domestic abuse incident is fresh in the fans' minds (and it probably would have spread with the Lesnar news).

 

Also, what is the final verdict on the editing on the DVD? I've heard mixed reports, but I've never actually read anyone who has seen the DVD version and the original version consecutively to make a decision. If the original version was indeed much louder than the DVD version, I'd be HIGHLY interested in a copy if anyone has it.

 

I'm thinking in terms of infamy in the past ten years of WWE/WCW wrestling, this would rank way above Foley/Taker, Foley/Rock, Hogan/Jarrett, and such matches though it's still a full step or ten below Bret/Michaels.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I think most people stopped caring about this ten minutes after it finished.

[NYU 0]

I think most people stopped caring about this ten minutes after it finished.

Which is why some people were OUTRAGED in the "WrestleMania XX DVD" thread to read that the crowd chants in Goldberg/Lesnar might have been edited.

 

YOU may not have cared about the Goldberg/Lesnar match at Mania. Many people did.

[tbondrage99 0]

I think this match might just go down as the worst match in the history of Wrestle Mania, I honestly cant think of any being as bad as that match was.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

I think this match might just go down as the worst match in the history of Wrestle Mania, I honestly cant think of any being as bad as that match was.

Wasn't there a match between Terri Runnels and The Kat at WM2K?

[Use Your Illusion 0]

That, at least, had TNA value, Gosunkugi.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I think this match might just go down as the worst match in the history of Wrestle Mania, I honestly cant think of any being as bad as that match was.

Wrestling-wise maybe; as there have been worse matches (Wrestlemania 1 and 2- a lot of those matches most fans today would just HATE), but the crowd just MADE this match. I just watched WM20 today, and I was entertained the whole way through- not by the wrestling, but by the crowd, and JR and King's comentary. It's the kind of match that's great to listen to, not watch per say.

[Guest JMA]

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg will go down in history as the WORST "dream" match ever, IMO.

 

Although, one could argue Hogan/Warrior II was the worst "dream" match ever.

[AndrewTS 0]

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg will go down in history as the WORST "dream" match ever, IMO.

 

Although, one could argue Hogan/Warrior II was the worst "dream" match ever.

It had already happened though, was done much better, and at that time it was only a "dream" match to Hogan, Bisch, and Warrior, really.

 

Goldberg/Lesnar hadn't ever happened before.

 

I'd argue the worst-booked dream match that WWE's done was WWF vs. WCW/ECW (Alliance, whatever).

[tbondrage99 0]

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg will go down in history as the WORST "dream" match ever, IMO.

 

Although, one could argue Hogan/Warrior II was the worst "dream" match ever.

I never dreamed of a Warrior/Hogan II, I would of rather be upset for the rest of my life about Hogan losing the first one, then to see a return from The Warrior.

 

As for Lesnar/Goldberg, the thought of that made me want to piss myself in fear, since I saw most matches by both of them and they might of had 5 between them. Why anyone would dream about that match I have no idea.

[tbondrage99 0]

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg will go down in history as the WORST "dream" match ever, IMO.

 

Although, one could argue Hogan/Warrior II was the worst "dream" match ever.

It had already happened though, was done much better, and at that time it was only a "dream" match to Hogan, Bisch, and Warrior, really.

 

Goldberg/Lesnar hadn't ever happened before.

 

I'd argue the worst-booked dream match that WWE's done was WWF vs. WCW/ECW (Alliance, whatever).

Except for a few breif moments the entire WCW/ECW invasion sucked.

[AndrewTS 0]

As for Lesnar/Goldberg, the thought of that made me want to piss myself in fear, since I saw most matches by both of them and they might of had 5 between them. Why anyone would dream about that match I have no idea.

It'd be a mark "dream" match, naturally.

 

Better that than one of those fabricated dream matches that WWE claims we all wanted to see, like Hogan vs. Vince.

 

I'm surprised that a possibly-good monster vs. monster feud, Kane vs. Goldberg, was ruined so they could insert HHH into the match. Although hardly a "dream" match, that would have been something fresh. Back during Armageddon or whenever that match was.

[tbondrage99 0]

I'm surprised that a possibly-good monster vs. monster feud, Kane vs. Goldberg, was ruined so they could insert HHH into the match. Although hardly a "dream" match, that would have been something fresh. Back during Armageddon or whenever that match was.

Yeah but you forget, Triple H "needs" to be in the main event....hmmm now that I think of it hasnt Triple H competed in one way or another for The World title at every PPV since it was brought back? Not counting the Smackdown PPVs, of corse.

[AndrewTS 0]

Probably, since Goldberg didn't get a chance to main event a PPV without HHH, and Shawn's reign was still a part of the HHH feud.

 

"Where does it rank in history?"

 

It ranks, I'll tell ya what. *rimshot*

 

I think the significance will be lessened if Lesnar comes back.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

What gets me is that while everybody points out the semi-scripted double bird by Lesnar, nobody takes about the definitely unscripted shot of GOLDBERG flipping off the front row while on a turnbuckle. I guess the WWE cameraman "mistakingly" shot that.

 

When I watched the match I was in shock. I never expected that to happen. Goldberg getting booed, maybe, but the crowd was just merciless. If nything, it will go down as one of WM's most memorable moments.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

YOU may not have cared about the Goldberg/Lesnar match at Mania. Many people did.

But only in a WrestleCrap sort of way once the match started.

 

The match was supposed to be Hogan/Warrior, but it became Hogan/Warrior II instead.

 

And no, it won't be memorable. No more memorable than Brock landing on his head, which people remembered for 6 months then put away in their heads until the WM20 ads kept shownig the attempted dive.

[Guest JMA]

Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg will go down in history as the WORST "dream" match ever, IMO.

 

Although, one could argue Hogan/Warrior II was the worst "dream" match ever.

I never dreamed of a Warrior/Hogan II, I would of rather be upset for the rest of my life about Hogan losing the first one, then to see a return from The Warrior.

 

As for Lesnar/Goldberg, the thought of that made me want to piss myself in fear, since I saw most matches by both of them and they might of had 5 between them. Why anyone would dream about that match I have no idea.

Notice that both times I put "dream" in parenthesis.

 

One person's dream is another person's nightmare.

[Guest Dazed]

I think most people stopped caring about this ten minutes after it finished.

Don't troll.

 

And welcome to TSM, Thrashist.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

It was definitely the biggest Rip-Off of a Match in WrestleMania history. Seeing as how it probably got more people to order than any other match on the card. It was just an embarrassment to watch, and regardless of the reaction Brock & Berg recieved, they could have at least TRIED. You didn't see The Rock lock in a 10 minute resthold when he was being booed against Hogan. It wasn't so much of a match, as it was 10 minutes of grunting and locking up, then trading finishers for the next 5.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I'll watch the PPV version of this match over and over, just to hear everyone shit on Goldberg, and even more Brock Lesnar, who everyone was creaming their pants over, despite lack of a.) charisma, and b.) having good matches on a regular basis.

 

Fuck them both, may they never return. And Austin can stay gone. Raw has been better without him.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Brock should not have announced he was leaving so close to WM. God, I too wanted MSG to fully back him 100% again and for him to come out with the win.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I still believe the match was booked to be a slow match by Vince and crew, so that the fans would give the two that reaction. If the two weren't leaving, everything in everyone's power would have went into making Lesnar/Goldberg special. But the match, even without the crowd heat, sucked...and it was nothing like your typical Lesnar or Goldberg match really.

 

Plus the reports you hear of the guys backstage laughing it up over the reactions. I still feel the match was booked to be bad, just to humiliate the two.

 

and even more Brock Lesnar, who everyone was creaming their pants over, despite lack of a.) charisma, and b.) having good matches on a regular basis.

 

The guy's charisma had improved tenfold by the start of 2004. And he had great matches throughout 2003, with guys like Big Show no less and his match with Eddie at NWO...but, we should forget about that because he left. Ok.

 

Just more heat seaking from you it seems.

[Guest Trivia247]

If you believe it this way, this match was WORSE than kat terri match for one reason, at least Kat and Terri actually fought and didn't get all affected by the fans.

 

Brock was completely unnerved whereas Goldberg probably ignored it more (but not much) Given the fact he never really cared for fan reaction anyway (How many times in the WWE did he get all pissed off at the fans who were booing Golden boy without his permission?)

 

If it was indeed booked to fail well they did a spectacular job then.

 

If it wasn't then what could have been a great final match (had both men's leaving remained hushed up) Was screwed because of Brock in particular being quite open about his departure from the WWE.

 

And if there is anything to Promotional Loyality with the Arena fans, you don't piss on the WWE publically then wrassle the biggest event at MSG without the fans there giving you a piece of their mind..

[Guest RickyB]

Plus the reports you hear of the guys backstage laughing it up over the reactions. I still feel the match was booked to be bad, just to humiliate the two.

 

That's just a stupid conspiricy theory? If the match was pre-planned by a road agent then they would have had to have more than FOUR days to do it. I just think they were both phoning it in because they weren't bothered about the match since they were both leaving. As well I think the match may have been planned out with the thoughts that they would get a total mark audiance and saying that booking to make them both just fall over makes them look lazy is stupid... only you or whoever looking for a stupid conspiricy theory would think that... it was supposed to be a whole "feeling out process" to build up the heat for the match.. but when you have a bunch of stupid smarks who don't want to look at the story the match is telling and just want to sound clever with a bunch of stupid chants then it's not going to work.

 

It really wasn't a bad match at all, it told a good story and it had a good structure... but I guess since the fans don't care about that and only want to sound clever going "oh they were lazy", "they didn't take stupid bumps so the match must be shit." or "Goldberg = OWNED" then it was always going to fail. Shame really considering that these are the so called SMART marks.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

YOU may not have cared about the Goldberg/Lesnar match at Mania. Many people did.

But only in a WrestleCrap sort of way once the match started.

 

The match was supposed to be Hogan/Warrior, but it became Hogan/Warrior II instead.

 

And no, it won't be memorable. No more memorable than Brock landing on his head, which people remembered for 6 months then put away in their heads until the WM20 ads kept shownig the attempted dive.

Though many may forget about it, many won't. For years to come there will be people going [mark] "Do you remember Brock Lesnar vs. Goldberg? Man that was weird, wasn't it? What was up with that crowd."[/mark]

 

I've already had 2 uncles ask me that, and I'm sure they'll ask again.

 

And what's with all the newbies posting a page and a half topics?

[SamoaRowe 0]

The match was indeed an embarassment, but I have to say two things:

 

1) Raw has been much better without Austin or Goldberg around. In fact, the ratings are up slightly. Obviously, Raw didn't need either of them.

 

2) Smackdown has gotten worse since they lost Lesnar. The ratings have gone down. Smackdown still had a need for Lesnar.

 

On that note, why give a damn about Goldberg, but very pissed about Lesnar.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I still believe the match was booked to be a slow match by Vince and crew, so that the fans would give the two that reaction. If the two weren't leaving, everything in everyone's power would have went into making Lesnar/Goldberg special. But the match, even without the crowd heat, sucked...and it was nothing like your typical Lesnar or Goldberg match really.

 

Plus the reports you hear of the guys backstage laughing it up over the reactions. I still feel the match was booked to be bad, just to humiliate the two.

 

and even more Brock Lesnar, who everyone was creaming their pants over, despite lack of a.) charisma, and b.) having good matches on a regular basis.

 

The guy's charisma had improved tenfold by the start of 2004. And he had great matches throughout 2003, with guys like Big Show no less and his match with Eddie at NWO...but, we should forget about that because he left. Ok.

 

Just more heat seaking from you it seems.

Since when was Great "**" ratings? Cause thats as high as possible I'd go for their best match (Judgment Day 2003). Survivor Series 2002 was maybe *, and Rumble was about the same. Please, point out these great, or **** matches Brock had with anyone besides Kurt Angle?

[haVoc 0]

Brock Vs Benoit on Smackdown and Brock Vs Eddie at NWO.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Brock Vs Benoit on Smackdown and Brock Vs Eddie at NWO.

I'll agree both of those were great, but my original statement was having good matches on a consistant basis. His first good/above average match was vs. Taker @ No Mercy 2002, then WM XIX vs. Angle, and in between that, nothing outstanding. I don't count triple threats, tag matches etc. because they include more than Brock and 1 other person.

 

My thoughts of Brock was outside of his physical appearence, he was average across the board. Plus the fact he was pushed down everyones throats the second he debuted didn't help matters.

 

Edit: I forgot SSlam 2002, but we all know who carried that.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'd argue the worst-booked dream match that WWE's done was WWF vs. WCW/ECW (Alliance, whatever).

Heck, I'll say it --- the ME of Invasion and Survivor Series 2001 were pretty solid.

 

2001 may have had horrible booking --- but the in-ring action was superb after Judgment Day.

-=Mike