NHL Off-Season Thread...

[The Czech Republic 0]

I meant Red Wings.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Yeah that's right the Maple Leafs lost in the Finals to the Canucks that year.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Case in point. Corey Hirsch was winning like a little bitch last week. He said that he is pissed because big league guys who are rich are taking jobs. But when did he speak up? When he got bumped by the not-so-rich Martin Gerber in the Check league.

 

What did Hirch do this week, he bumped someone to play in the German league. Now THATS a fukin hypocryte. Not Lockout Players going to Europe.

Maybe it's hypocritical, but it's kind of a domino effect, don't you think?

Absolutly. I dont blame Hirch at all. Its what the business is about.

 

But don't be a whiny bitch and complain that you got bumped when ur bumping someoen else yourself.

[the max 0]

Roenick calls for action in TV rant

 

11/18/2004

 

Philadelphia Flyers centre Jeremy Roenick, to no surprise, pulled no punches on Wednesday as he was given the chance to rant on the NHL lockout on Fox Sports' popular Best Damn Sports Show Period.

 

Given 30 seconds to vent his feelings, the veteran forward openly demanded that NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman head back to the bargaining table to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.

 

"Gary Bettman, you should be banging on Bob Goodenow's door, demanding to negotiate right now," he said.

 

"Get into a room, lock the door, and don't come out until there's a deal."

 

Roenick also addressed the NHL's waning popularity in the United States, made worse with no season and no exposure.

 

"People don't care right now," he added. "People are watching football; they're watching basketball. They don't care that hockey's not on TV right now. But...Bob Goodenow and Gary Bettman, you should care about two things: the fans and the state of the game. And if you don't get this deal done soon, you're going to lose them both."

 

Roenick added that he didn't believe there would  be a season.

 

"(The players) are mad because of the lack of negotiations," he said. "Nobody has talked. And I don't understand why nobody has talked...They're mad at Gary Bettman, because Gary Bettman is really putting on a hardball stance right now, and he's being tough, and you don't act tough like that to hockey players."

 

The comments came just hours after the NHLPA met with more than 60 player agents in Chicago to provide updates and additional information on the union's stance.

 

Both the league and the Players' Association haven't met since Sept. 9.

 

I bolded the parts I agree with. Funny how I hate Roenick as a player for the teams that he plays for, but happen to enjoy when he goes out on a rant.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Roenick is right. Its November and I don't care about hockey anymore. Its amazing how fast I adjusted. If they come back, then cool. If they don't then I'll find something better to do with my time and money. Playing the game is far better (and cheaper) then watching it anyway.

 

If this is how I feel, imagine how the casual fan will feel NEXT year......

[the max 0]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=105638

 

Hoo boy, Brett Hull sounds off:

(bolded the parts I enjoyed)

 

Brett Hull says he doesn't think there will be NHL hockey played this season unless both sides are willing to compromise, which he doesn't see happening until an entire season has been lost.

 

"I really don't (think there will be a 2004-05 season)," Hull tells the Arizona Republic in an exclusive interview.

 

"What is it that's going to make the two sides come together? I think it's going to be a missed season, and then in the off-season they're going to say, 'This can't happen again.'"

 

Hull, who needs 61 goals to move into second place on the all-time list, says he's a little surprised by the lack of any formal talks.

 

 

"I expected it but ... I'm more perturbed at the fact that whether it's one side or the other, they don't seem to really care whether (a deal) gets done or not."

 

"Once you start talking, anything can happen. But if you're not talking, nothing's going to happen."

 

Hull says he would like to see both sides take a realistic look at their positions.

 

"As far as I'm concerned, the players, I think, have to become a little more realistic about what is fair-market value for themselves," Hull tells the newspaper. "But I would also tell (NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow) to stand firm. . . I think they (union leaders) are doing a good job. basically he rips the PA but then takes it back...

 

"I don't think (the owners) are ever going to get a salary cap from us, but if (NHL commissioner Gary Bettman) ever wanted to, I don't think the number he's starting at is very good."

 

Hull also took issue with the fact the NHL is losing fans as a result of the lockout, saying the problems go much deeper than that.

 

"I think the fans lost interest starting 10 years ago when Gary Bettman came in, and I think everyone who has watched the game has seen the game decline, not only in popularity, but the actual game itself has declined in skill and excitement and fan entertainment value."

 

"Something's got to be done. I think there's no question that the fans are going to lose interest, because the game that's not being played right now wasn't that exciting to begin with. And unless changes are made at the top of the heap as far as marketing goes, as far as people in charge of running the game (and) making it more exciting, changing the rules, whatever it takes to make the game more exciting for the fans, it's going to keep steadily declining."

 

"We don't have a TV contract because it's 'a bad game.' It's a fantastic game and a great game to watch, but something has happened along the way that has made it very undesirable for TV to want to pick up the NHL, and I think it's because of the level of play, the diluted talent and poor marketing."

 

 

He was kind of tame there, but I agree with a few of his points.

 

 

 

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=105631&hubName=nhl

 

Toronto Maple Leafs goaltender Ed Belfour has been medically cleared from the injured list, the Toronto Star reported Tuesday morning.

 

Belfour, who has been in rehabilitation for his surgically repaired back, has returned to the rank of a locked-out player, which means the club no longer has to pay him more of the $6-million US salary he was due this season.

[treble 0]

I wonder how long he delayed that doctor's appointment for.

[Red Baron 0]

I agree 100 per cent on what Brett said.

[the max 0]

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=105799&hubName=main

 

TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association will pay out between $29 million and $44 million US in lockout pay this season.

 

The payments will start this month with more than 730 players getting $10,000 each for November and another $10,000 for December, The Canadian Press has learned.

 

Subsequent monthly payments will vary between $5,000 or $10,000. The NHLPA refused to detail the payment schedule but said the "initial" plan will cover the next 24 months.

 

Those numbers would work out to a minimum of $40,000 and maximum of $60,000 per player through April, although the maximum would likely not be reached.

 

That translates into a total of between $29.2 million and $43.8 million through April. Over 24 months, it would be a low of $94.9 million and a high of $175.2 million (from $130,000 to $240,000 per player).

 

The money comes from a pool saved up over the years from union dues and licensing fees, among other sources.

 

"As a result of the ongoing owners' lockout, the NHLPA executive committee has announced a player stipend plan which consists of an initial 24-month schedule and monthly payments for over 730 locked-out players," Ted Saskin, NHLPA senior director, said in a statement released to The Canadian Press. "Each locked-out NHLPA member receives the same monthly payments."

 

During normal operations, players only get paid during the regular season - 13 paycheques, two for each month and one for April since the schedule ends partway through.

 

The average salary of an NHL player was $1.8 million last season, which worked out to about $138,000 per paycheque. That translates into about $1.31 billion for the season - or about $1.1 billion from November on.

 

Players have missed three paycheques to date.

 

Using the average salary, an NHL player would normally make about $277,000 per month during the regular season. Lockout pay of $10,000 a month equals some 3.6 per cent of that amount.

 

The NHL minimum salary was officially $180,000 last season - or about $27,700 a month during the regular season - although it is rare a player makes it.

 

It's not clear whether all players will accept the lockout pay, especially high-end salary players. One prominent agent said Wednesday it was too early to tell.

 

The lockout pay probably won't score points with hockey fans already fed up with the players - according to the 2001 census, the average Canadian annual income was $31,750 Cdn. But the union hopes to send a strong message to the league by showing it has enough money to take care of its players for two more years.

 

The league would not bite when asked for comment Wednesday.

 

"That's an internal union matter," Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said from New York. "We have no reaction or comment."

 

The union's executive committee, consisting of current players, discussed lockout pay with player reps Nov. 2 in Toronto. The committee then announced the final details to the membership through the union's secure website Tuesday.

 

The committee consists of president Trevor Linden, and vice-presidents Bob Boughner, Vincent Damphousse, Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Trent Klatt and Arturs Irbe.

 

The NHLPA is planning to hold another meeting in Toronto with more than 200 players sometime in the first two weeks of December.

 

The NHL will hold a dinner meeting to update the league's 30 general managers Dec. 2 in New York.

 

The two sides haven't held bargaining talks since Sept. 9 in Toronto. Through Wednesday night, 282 of the season's 1,230 games had gone by the wayside.

 

So, basically every player that's locked out (not on IR) will receive up to 10K a month for up to two years. Great. So much for that bargaining chip that the league had prior to this. I'd love to make 10K a month sitting on my fucking ass.

 

 

 

 

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?id=105777

 

If there is a 2004-05 NHL season, it will be a surprise to Red Wings Goalie Manny Legace.

 

The Wings' representative for the NHL Players Association told the Detroit News that he will be heading to Eurpoe when NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman eventually cancels the season.

 

"There's not going to be any hockey," Legace told the paper. "It's a joke. The league doesn't want to negotiate. It doesn't look as if we're going to have a season."

 

"We've given them (the owners) offers, they've said no and they haven't come back (with any counteroffers). All he (Bettman) talks about is salary cap, salary cap. He does not want to negotiate."

 

Legace reinterated the NHLPA won't accept a salary cap.  He also told the paper that he felt fans wouldn't welcome replacement players.

 

"Fans aren't going to pay to watch the Grand Rapids Griffins and (Chicago) Wolves (of the American Hockey League) play in NHL uniforms."

 

Legace raises an interesting point. Will the fans pay to watch replacement players? Of course, using Chicago as an example was wrong, as I'll see more people at 2A in a 7-11 than at a Blackhawks game.

[the max 0]

I'm really bored tonight, so here's my list of best players that'd be available if Christ rose from the ashes and we had an NHL season right now....

 

1st:

 

w- Glen Murray

c- Jason Allison

w- Pavol Demitra

d- Mathieu Schneider

d- Alex Zhitnik

g- Chris Osgood

 

2nd:

 

w- Anson Carter

c- Alex Zhamnov

w- Magnus Arvedsson

d- Curtis Leschyshyn

d- Teppo Numminen

g- Steve Shields

[Lightning Flik 0]

Legace raises an interesting point. Will the fans pay to watch replacement players? Of course, using Chicago as an example was wrong, as I'll see more people at 2A in a 7-11 than at a Blackhawks game.

Considering AHL games have risen up in attendance by like 25% league wide, I'd say fans will go watch replacement players.

[the max 0]

I fall in that same boat.

 

If there were a decent hockey team down here, I'd get season tickets. All I have is ECHL.

[treble 0]

I can go watch the CJHL (They banned David Frost!).

[The Czech Republic 0]

Legace raises an interesting point. Will the fans pay to watch replacement players? Of course, using Chicago as an example was wrong, as I'll see more people at 2A in a 7-11 than at a Blackhawks game.

Stop being so right

[the max 0]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=105982&hubName=nhl

 

Mario Lemieux says it will take more than a new collective bargaining agreement to secure the future of the Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

Lemieux, a part-owner of the franchise, tells the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette the team needs a new arena to enhance revenues. He says the chances of that happening are "50-50" right now.

 

"The CBA, we're going to fix it," he tells the newspaper. "If there's no new building, there's no chance the team's going to be here... Even in two years."

 

The Penguins current lease at Mellon Arena runs through 2006-07. The team is one of several groups bidding for a license to operate a stand alone slots casino, scheduled to be built in Pittsburgh. Part of the revenue from that operation would go into the construction of a new hockey arena.

 

Lemieux admits that he has been contacted about possibly relocating the Penguins elsewhere but that no one has made an offer to buy the team and he and his partners are not interested in selling at this point.

 

"Right now, we're not dealing with that," he tells the Post-Gazette. "We just want to see if we can get things done here. If not, we'll see what's out there."

 

Way to kick everyone when they're down, Mario.

[bob_barron 0]

NHLPA offers rollback on salaries

 

 

CP with files from TSN.ca

 

 

 

12/9/2004

 

TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association delivered a strong offer as promised Thursday, enough for the NHL to agree to meet again next Tuesday.

 

 

 

Sources indicate the union's offer was significant and addressed some of the league's concerns but still didn't include a link between player costs and league revenues - a salary cap, in other words.

 

 

 

Among the major points in today's proposal, the NHLPA has offered a 24% rollback on salaries and 20 cent tax on payroll over 45 million dollars. The tax rises to 50 cents on the dollar over $50 million and 60 cents on the dollar over $60 million.The owners would also gain on entry level contracts with a cap on bonuses as well as arbitration rights.

 

The NHLPA says their proposal could save the league up to $600 million dollars in salaries, but NHL sources contacted by TSN said that the offer does not include any kind of mechanism to ensure that the salary giveback remains permanent.

 

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman called one of the aspects of the players' proposal "significant", and said that the two sides will sit down and meet again next Tuesday, at which time the league is expected to present a counter offer.

 

 

''I think it's fair to say that this proposal touched more topics,'' said Bettman. ''Which is again a reason that I can't respond to it until we've been able to digest everything that's in there.''

 

 

While there was cautious optimism because the offer was enough to warrant another meeting, that could be wiped out in a hurry next week if the NHL comes back with a counter-proposal that includes the link between player costs and league revenues.

 

 

 

Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said the league was taking the new offer seriously.

 

 

 

''They made a serious proposal, which I would suggest was the first one in this process,'' he said. ''But it is a serious proposal and certainly they showed a recognition of the economic problems that the game is facing and certainly we're appreciative of that. We now need to work together with them on systemic elements to make sure the economics of the game stay in-synch going forward.''

 

 

 

Thursday's meeting, which came three months to the day of the last negotiating session Sept. 9, began at 11:23 a.m. and ended around 3:20 p.m., with both sides squeezing in a lunch break at 1:45.

 

 

 

It was the first official meeting between the sides since Sept. 9. The lockout, which reached its 85th day Thursday, has forced cancellation of 382 regular-season games plus the 2005 all-star game.

 

 

 

The NHL says it lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year run of the last collective bargaining agreement, including $273 million for the 2002-03 season and $224 million last season. The players dispute those figures.

 

 

 

The new NHLPA proposal is touted to save owners well over $200 million next season.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I've been siding with ownership throughout this entire debacle, but after reading what Bob posted I might change sides ... that's a significant offer, and while it's not the cap that Bettman has a hard-on over it IS a very good compromise. If nothing else, sign it to a 2 or 3 year agreement and immediately start working on a long term solution that both sides fully agree upon.

[CanadianChris 0]

I disagree...it's still not enough. The players could offer a 50% rollback, and in a few years everyone would be right back to square one. The rollbacks, while looking good on paper, are not the answer here. The players are asking for a six-year deal...this is only a deal that should be accepted for the short term.

 

That said, it's a good jumping-off point for the owners. They have to come back now and make a meaningful counter, or their optics get shot all to hell.

 

Oh, and anything less than a 75% payroll tax doesn't mean shit. 20% over 45 million sure as hell doesn't mean shit.

[Red Baron 0]

What if they can compromise on a salary cap at 38 million and a 20-60 cents on a dollar that is over the salary cap limit, would that be too harsh, or something along the way.

 

I think you might need both if the season is to get under way.

[Guest Rrrsh]

I say The Luxury Tax goes down to a 40 Mill from 45 or It starts at 45 with 50 cents on the Dollar. I say no matter what, By 55 Mill it will be come Dollar for Dollar. Which is more than fair if the money get given down to the Bottom third teams in regards to Payroll.

[bob_barron 0]

NHL to seek cap in counter-proposal

 

ESPN.com news services

The NHL intends to reject the Players' Association's latest proposal and counter with one "consistent with our mandate," NHL executive vice president Bill Daly wrote in a Dec. 12 memorandum to all 30 member clubs.

 

 

The memo was obtained by The Sports Network of Canada.

 

 

The league has been seeking a system of "cost containment" throughout talks with the union on a new collective bargaining agreement. The Players' Association regards any connection between revenues and salaries as a salary cap and a non-starter in negotiations. While the memo does not detail what the NHL's proposal will contain, Daly writes that " ... under this scenario, the Union will likely [and quickly] break off negotiations."

 

 

The NHL will present its counter-proposal to the NHLPA at a 1 p.m. ET meeting Tuesday in Toronto.

 

 

The union proposed a 24-percent rollback in current salaries as the lynchpin of a 236-page proposal it presented to the league Thursday, the first negotiating session between the sides since Sept. 9. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had called the offer "significant," but added that it is a "one-time element." Bettman said the league would digest the offer before formally responding to the union.

 

 

Daly's eight-page memo reiterates Bettman's initial statement and further elaborates with the league's position.

 

 

"In sum, we believe the Union's December 9 CBA proposal, while offering necessary and significant short-term financial relief, falls well short of providing the fundamental systemic changes that are required to ensure that overall League economics remain in synch on a going-forward basis," Daly writes.

 

 

"While the immediate 'rollback' of 24 percent offered by the Union would materially improve League economics for the 2004-05 season, there is virtually nothing in the Union's proposal that would prevent the dollars 'saved' from being re-directed right back into the player compensation system, such that the League's overall financial losses would approach current levels in only a matter of a couple of years."

 

 

Daly also pokes holes in the union's specific proposals, while alluding to the NHL's position, writing:

 

 

 

The 24-percent rollback amount was adequate but should be structured among players "in a more equitable manner";

 

 

 

The proposed entry-level system "can still easily be circumvented";

 

 

 

The changes to the qualifying offer system "certainly would not result in the savings of the magnitude projected by the Union";

 

 

 

The salary arbitration alterations "would have very limited impact [if any] on a Club's or League-wide economics ... We intend to reiterate our proposal to eliminate salary arbitration in our next offer to the Union";

 

 

 

The luxury tax system demonstrates the union's "continuing objective to avoid at all costs placing meaningful restraints on a Club's ability to spend excessively on player salaries";

 

 

The memo also questions the motives behind the union's offer.

 

 

"We believe the Union's offer was more about trying to unify the players and ensure player solidarity with what they would perceive as a very substantial proposal than it was about making a good faith effort to reach agreement with us ..." Daly writes. " ... The Union needed the 'rallying point' that it felt this offer would provide with the players to effectuate this strategy. Under this scenario, the Union will likely [and quickly] break off negotiations."

[CanadianChris 0]

This could be it...

 

According to a report in the Toronto Sun, there probably won't be any hockey this season -- and maybe next.

 

Sources told Sun Media on Friday that NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow has told NHL players they should not only accept any current job offers in Europe immediately but also take any offers for next season because the lockout could drag on. Goodenow delivered the message via an audio message he posted on the union's private Web site, which only union members can access.

 

"I don't think we'll be playing," Eric Lindros told the Sun. "There's no communication ... I don't think we'll be playing this season at all.

 

"The bottom line for both sides is nobody should be worrying about public perception right now or who is right and who is wrong in all of this," he continued. "They should be putting their energy into trying to get a deal done. It's not going to matter who is winning the battle for public opinion if we don't get a deal done."

 

A source told the Sun that the NHL will make an offer next week, but no one is optimistic.

 

"I just don't think there's much reason for optimism with nothing happening right now," Lindros told the Sun. "We offered them the 24 percent (salary) rollback and I thought that was a very good offer. They didn't want it. We know that hockey is going to be back. But I can't tell you when and in what form."

 

Kay Whitmore, a former NHL goalie, said players were galvanized by the league's rejection of the salary cut, but he wondered if the union can withstand a two-year work stoppage.

 

"The only way someone is going to win is if both sides find a compromise, sit down right now and get a deal done," Whitmore told the Sun. "If that happens, then maybe both sides would truly be happy with what's happened. But the players' chances of winning don't improve the longer this goes. The deadline for the players to get their best deal is right now. I'm sure if this year is lost, it will be a bit of a shock."

 

Kirk Muller, a 19-year NHL veteran, said the sides won't be able to reach an agreement until they can trust each other.

 

"I'd be very surprised if there is any hockey this year," he said.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I didn't see if this was mentioned already, because I'm lazy, but Peter Karmanos says this season is over and he doesn't care, and he couldn't care less if there's a season next year, either.

 

 

I didn't think it was possible, but that makes Bill Wirtz look like Mark fuckin' Cuban.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Well that's cause Peter Karmanos is losing money out of his ass operating in Carolina where there are lucky to draw an announced attendance of 8,000 a night.

 

Sure, he's probably losing money at the moment but not nearly as much as when the league was operating.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Carolina averaged around 12 thousand last season.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Carolina averaged around 12 thousand last season.

I'm sorry, but I find that very, very hard to believe. Maybe it's like the New Orleans Hornets where all the season tickets account for attendance figures despite nobody being AT the games. There's no way you had 12,000 people at a Hurricanes game.

[Guest CurryMan]

There are some talk here in Sweden that the Swedish national hockeyleague better known here as Elitserien is being showned in Canada. Is this true? I have no idea what channel but it has been in the biggest newspaper here.

 

Anyway Elitserien is big right now, hockey has been on a downward spiral with no luck in the olympics and world cup but now it is big. Marian Hossa, Peter Forsberg and some other great players from the NHL is making this one of the greatest seasons ever.

[the.weej 0]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

 

12,171. Not quite last in the leauge, even. It's kind of interesting to note that the NHL has never actually struggled with attendance.

[CanadianChris 0]

Hearsay at this point, but the local sports radio station is reporting these items...

 

- Wayne Gretzky has told the Coyotes that practices will resume next Wednesday.

 

- Three teams have ordered equipment.

 

- Team executives have been told to fly back to their respective cities.

[nl5xsk1 0]

CanadianChris, I have two points about previous posts, and both just happen to be yours ...

 

the first was regarding the article that you posted, with Goodenow saying that players should prepare for a long lockdown ... I really don't trust him and figure everything that comes out of his mouth is a ploy to gain something, either from the fans, media, or owners.

 

And, the last thing you posted, with the positive news, is the best news I've heard in weeks ... damn, I'd love it if there was NHL hockey to watch.