Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Most backstage were against the decision to put the WWE Title on John Bradshaw Layfield, but many have since changed their tune. Bradshaw has won over many who now feel him to be a worthy champion and a legit main eventer. Credit: Torch Newsletter Vince McMahon still views John Bradshaw Layfield as a longterm WWE Champion and apparently never had plans to put the Title on the Undertaker at Summerslam. - The plan right now is to have the Undertaker feud with John Heidenreich following Summerslam. McMahon is very high on Heidenreich. The word is that Heidenreich has improved in the ring since his last appearance on WWE TV. Credit: PWTorch.com The plan right now appears to be to put the WWE Title on Randy Orton at Summerslam and have him hold the belt until WrestleMania in 2005 where he would defend against, and likely lose, to Triple H. Everyone backstage views Orton as "the real deal" and most have been impressed with how much he has improved and how quickly he has done it. WWE also has a ready made big money program between Orton and Triple H. WWE likes that Orton can work as a face or a heel, and that he has come up during the brand split, meaning that he has lots of fresh feuds left with guys currently on the Smackdown roster. WWE is also planning to revisit the Orton/Edge feud later, but with Orton as the face and Edge as the heel. Orton will also likely feud with Ric Flair and Batista soon, following his split from Evolution. Credit: Torch Newsletter Shawn Michaels will not be returning for Summerslam to resume his program with Kane. He is expected back in September. - The Big Show is also expected to return in September. WWE has been monitoring his weight closely so he doesn't gain too much during his time off. - Both Christian and Shelton Benjamin are expected back before Summerslam. Management is high on Christian right now and feels that he will be a solid second-tier wrestler for them. Credit: Torch Newsletter The one thing here that interests me the most is everything about Orton. I'm not sure about him being a great face... but I never could picture him as a heel when he was a face... so I guess I have no room to talk there. And of course Bradshaw.... I'm starting to warm up to him too... but I still want the belt on someone more established... please let the Undertaker win at Summerslam WWE... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 what exactly do they use to show he can work great as a face? I just have this funny feeling that Orton wins the belt at Summerslam, and just doesn't get the reaction Vince and Triple H thought he would, and he ends up dropping it before WM, possibly at the Rumble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 2, 2004 what exactly do they use to show he can work great as a face? I just have this funny feeling that Orton wins the belt at Summerslam, and just doesn't get the reaction Vince and Triple H thought he would, and he ends up dropping it before WM, possibly at the Rumble. I'd say the fact that he's outpopped Shelton, Edge, and Jericho at various situations since Backlash is what they're talking about. At this point he isn't even really a heel anymore. He doesn't help out in Evolution beatdowns, he's cheered by the fans, it's just a matter fo time with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I thought HHH was going to be the one to go face and split from Evolution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I thought HHH was going to be the one to go face and split from Evolution. Nope, he likes being a heel too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I still think it would be a better idea for Orton to lose to Benoit the first time out, and have it be like something he doesn't want to give up on, and then you kind of have Triple H in the background trying to get him give up that dream so it won't interfere with his own pursuit, and then have it culminate at Royal Rumble with Orton winning the title and Triple H winning the rumble. To me it would make for much more drama if it played out like, rather then Orton winning the title at Summerslam. I mean imagine the elation Orton would express in the ring after a 5 month feud with Benoit where he was beat a couple times, only to mature and finally win, ONLY TO FIND OUT his "best friend" and leader of his group has just won the right to face him at WM......much better then Orton just kind of hanging onto the title this whole time, IMO anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I still think it would be a better idea for Orton to lose to Benoit the first time out, and have it be like something he doesn't want to give up on, and then you kind of have Triple H in the background trying to get him give up that dream so it won't interfere with his own pursuit, and then have it culminate at Royal Rumble with Orton winning the title and Triple H winning the rumble. To me it would make for much more drama if it played out like, rather then Orton winning the title at Summerslam. I mean imagine the elation Orton would express in the ring after a 5 month feud with Benoit where he was beat a couple times, only to mature and finally win, ONLY TO FIND OUT his "best friend" and leader of his group has just won the right to face him at WM......much better then Orton just kind of hanging onto the title this whole time, IMO anyway. I honestly think what they're doing is near perfect. At SummerSlam Orton does what HHH couldn't- he ends Benoit's title reign. Benoit losing shouldn't be a climax... it's just the starting point for soemthing much larger. BTW, I LOVE the fact that they're building to Mania NOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. His Raw match with Edge was great. The match at Vengeance went too long but was also very good. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Most backstage were against the decision to put the WWE Title on John Bradshaw Layfield, but many have since changed their tune. Bradshaw has won over many who now feel him to be a worthy champion and a legit main eventer. . The word is that Heidenreich has improved in the ring since his last appearance on WWE TV. The JBL character is a fun one. I'm warming up to him. I'm not sure if he's the guy you want going into Mania with the belt, but he's not terrible. And Heidenreich HAD to have improved. He couldn't get much worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 His Raw match with Edge was great. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Oh and yeah it is nice that they are building for Mania now, but given the fact they are putting their faith in an unproven commodity and Vince's known reputation for pulling the panic button, don't place any bets that the WM main event remains Orton/HHH. I'd say the biggest reason it will end up happening is because well, it is Triple and his pet. Umm no it wasn't. It was 10 minutes of crap, followed by 5 minutes of greatness. The match was decent because of the hot finish, but as a whole the match sucked. As far as the Evolution matches go, they are all the same damn thing sanz Triple H matches. It is always an evolution member at ringside to effect the outcome, which basically ruins matches and makes the crowd disinterested from the get-go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 His Raw match with Edge was great. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Oh and yeah it is nice that they are building for Mania now, but given the fact they are putting their faith in an unproven commodity and Vince's known reputation for pulling the panic button, don't place any bets that the WM main event remains Orton/HHH. I'd say the biggest reason it will end up happening is because well, it is Triple and his pet. Umm no it wasn't. It was 10 minutes of crap, followed by 5 minutes of greatness. The match was decent because of the hot finish, but as a whole the match sucked. As far as the Evolution matches go, they are all the same damn thing sanz Triple H matches. It is always an evolution member at ringside to effect the outcome, which basically ruins matches and makes the crowd disinterested from the get-go. 8 minutes of crap 4 minute commercial break SEE THE BABY 3 minutes of boring restholds another 3 minute commercial break STACY SHOWING OFF HER CAMEL TOE too many Spears big finish Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 don't you hate hearing such a Long term crappy plan as this.. Orton in the driver seat through August, September, October, November December January Feburary and march/April What happen to some suspension of Disbelief.... Imagine the poor contenders who will look like crap through this stint. hate hearing about this so in advance... Orton gets nine months reign at being a couple of years in the business and Benoit who has been wrestling more tha a dozen years and he goes from six or so months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Orton gets nine months reign at being a couple of years in the business and Benoit who has been wrestling more tha a dozen years and he goes from six or so months. So what? The Rock got the title after less than two years in the business. Orton's over and he's a fresh face. Putting the belt on him is a good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wildpegasus Report post Posted August 2, 2004 what exactly do they use to show he can work great as a face? I just have this funny feeling that Orton wins the belt at Summerslam, and just doesn't get the reaction Vince and Triple H thought he would, and he ends up dropping it before WM, possibly at the Rumble. I'd say the fact that he's outpopped Shelton, Edge, and Jericho at various situations since Backlash is what they're talking about. At this point he isn't even really a heel anymore. He doesn't help out in Evolution beatdowns, he's cheered by the fans, it's just a matter fo time with him. Orton gets the face pops because there always the people that want to be cool, hip or whatever and chear the bad guys. Plus he's starting to get the very beginning of what I call " early notsgolia pops". He's getting affection because he's been around the block a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. I agree completely. I've said it before - let's see Orton put on a good match against an opponent who isn't a better worker than him. Because he hasn't yet. He should be thanking Edge, Jercho, Benoit, Foley, and all of the others that have been carrying him on their shoulders for the past few months, and he should be thanking them daily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I still say give Orton the title at the October PPV or Survivor Series. They can do the slow burn with Orton questioning why HHH gets the first title shot after Summerslam when he has only lost to Benoit once. I would assume once Orton wins the title he'll be turfed from Evolution, so if he gets the boot and is out of Evolution, how can they keep Orton and HHH away from each other for 8 months? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I still say give Orton the title at the October PPV or Survivor Series. They can do the slow burn with Orton questioning why HHH gets the first title shot after Summerslam when he has only lost to Benoit once. I would assume once Orton wins the title he'll be turfed from Evolution, so if he gets the boot and is out of Evolution, how can they keep Orton and HHH away from each other for 8 months? I say do it at the Royal Rumble, have Orton win the title and Triple H win the rumble and then as the PPV closes they have the friendly but cautious confrontation on the ramp. Then on Raw they have the dissaray-evolution skits where they are happy, but not sure what this all means besides something that is going to end ugly. Build that for a bit, with Orton/Triple showing more tension every week, and then have it culminate with Orton & co. kicking Triple H out Evolution and Orton cutting the, "you weren't happy for me when I won the belt, you were SCARED, scared you'd never get the title back. You secretly were holding me down, and tried to keep me lurking in your shadow, well Triple H, the time has come, and time to face the fact that Evolution has passed you by" blah blah blah....then build hard for the Mania match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 2, 2004 what exactly do they use to show he can work great as a face? I just have this funny feeling that Orton wins the belt at Summerslam, and just doesn't get the reaction Vince and Triple H thought he would, and he ends up dropping it before WM, possibly at the Rumble. I'd say the fact that he's outpopped Shelton, Edge, and Jericho at various situations since Backlash is what they're talking about. At this point he isn't even really a heel anymore. He doesn't help out in Evolution beatdowns, he's cheered by the fans, it's just a matter fo time with him. Orton gets the face pops because there always the people that want to be cool, hip or whatever and chear the bad guys. Plus he's starting to get the very beginning of what I call " early notsgolia pops". He's getting affection because he's been around the block a little. I agree with that completely. I also recall a post Rudo made that I admired about Eddie Guerrero circa Vengeance 2003 where he said that if a character is cheered by a significant portion of the audience, can they be called a "heel" just because the writers tell us so? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Use Your Illusion 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 How the fuck could Heidenreich not improve? It's not like they get much worse than him anyway. UYI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. His Raw match with Edge was great. The match at Vengeance went too long but was also very good. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Orton's match against RVD on Raw in April(?) where he had the concussion was propably his best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. His Raw match with Edge was great. The match at Vengeance went too long but was also very good. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Orton's match against RVD on Raw in April(?) where he had the concussion was propably his best. oh yeah, the one where RVD talked him through 90% of the match, yet still gets NO CREDIT from half the posters on this board. Yeah it was a good match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I give RVD a lot of credit for putting together such a good match. Hell, if Orton works that well with a concussion, knock him out before every match! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. His Raw match with Edge was great. The match at Vengeance went too long but was also very good. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Orton's match against RVD on Raw in April(?) where he had the concussion was propably his best. oh yeah, the one where RVD talked him through 90% of the match, yet still gets NO CREDIT from half the posters on this board. Yeah it was a good match. Maybe because ORTON WORKED THE MATCH WITH A CONCUSSION and some pople were (gasp of gasps) impressed by that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I wasn't impressed (I was, but after the fact) that he was injured. The two of them put together a hell of a match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 How the fuck could Heidenreich not improve? It's not like they get much worse than him anyway. UYI Supposedly Nathan Jones got worse after going through WWE reprogramming, based on his WWA matches. However, I suppose Heidenreich could only get worse if he had begun paralyzing or killing all his opponents in his matches, rather than just dropping them on their heads and causing minor injuries. Just MAYBE he's as good as Tomko now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I think that Heyman is being wasted babysitting Heidenreich. What ever happened to Jindrak? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UZI Suicide 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 what exactly do they use to show he can work great as a face? I just have this funny feeling that Orton wins the belt at Summerslam, and just doesn't get the reaction Vince and Triple H thought he would, and he ends up dropping it before WM, possibly at the Rumble. I'd say the fact that he's outpopped Shelton, Edge, and Jericho at various situations since Backlash is what they're talking about. At this point he isn't even really a heel anymore. He doesn't help out in Evolution beatdowns, he's cheered by the fans, it's just a matter fo time with him. Orton gets the face pops because there always the people that want to be cool, hip or whatever and chear the bad guys. Plus he's starting to get the very beginning of what I call " early notsgolia pops". He's getting affection because he's been around the block a little. Exactly. I see Orton as someone who gets pops as a heel because fans want to stand out and cheer the bad guy, or they just like his cocky heel character. But when he turns face, he's not going be quite as over as the WWE thinks, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 I don't see how Orton has improved at all. He hasn't had a great match since the last match he had with Foley, he still has the boring moveset which are just punches, kicks, a dropkick, a crossbody, rest holds, and the RKO and his promos are really boring to me. He sucked as a face the first time, I'm sure he'll suck as a face the second time. Sorry for the Orton hate, I just don't see where he has improved at all. His Raw match with Edge was great. The match at Vengeance went too long but was also very good. All those tag matches he's had with various faces as a member of Evolution were pretty spectacular as well. I also, for one, dug the Shelton match tremendously. Orton's match against RVD on Raw in April(?) where he had the concussion was propably his best. oh yeah, the one where RVD talked him through 90% of the match, yet still gets NO CREDIT from half the posters on this board. Yeah it was a good match. Maybe because ORTON WORKED THE MATCH WITH A CONCUSSION and some pople were (gasp of gasps) impressed by that? No it was more like Orton took a Kane-like rest trying to blade before RVD decided to carry him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 3, 2004 Orton gets nine months reign at being a couple of years in the business and Benoit who has been wrestling more tha a dozen years and he goes from six or so months. So what? The Rock got the title after less than two years in the business. Orton's over and he's a fresh face. Putting the belt on him is a good idea. there is a difference in putting the belt on someone that lasts because it works for him to remain champion than giving someone a long title reign regardless how it might effect. too many long term planning giving orton so guranteed long title reign basically lameducks any world championship Contender, there isn't any what iffing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
