Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 They're talking about it on MSNBC, Kathy Griffith says Lynn Cheney is a bad parent for being ashamed of having a gay daughter and now she's yelling at Joe Scarborough and not letting him response. What a dense bitch... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 But bringing up Cheney's daughter is disgusting. Everyone but NY Untouchable seems to understand that. Bring up Cheney's daughter is pretty much on the same level as questioning Kerry's military career, imo... Both are disgusting and pathetic. EVERY American deserves their unalienable rights, and EVERY veteran deserves proper respect. Bringing up an opponent's family to support your own case is disturbing and wrong...yet another ugly moment in this campaign of fear and loathing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 They're talking about it on MSNBC, Kathy Griffith says Lynn Cheney is a bad parent for being ashamed of having a gay daughter and now she's yelling at Joe Scarborough and not letting him response. What a dense bitch... Is she that stupid 'comedian'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Bush and Cheney haven't questioned Kerry's military career. If they did then it'd be disgusting. Kerry and Edwards have discussed Cheney's gay daughter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Niggardly King 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 But bringing up Cheney's daughter is disgusting. Everyone but NY Untouchable seems to understand that. Bring up Cheney's daughter is pretty much on the same level as questioning Kerry's military career, imo... Both are disgusting and pathetic. EVERY American deserves their unalienable rights, and EVERY veteran deserves proper respect. Bringing up an opponent's family to support your own case is disturbing and wrong...yet another ugly moment in this campaign of fear and loathing... But hasn't ones' military career always come up when running for President? Cheney's daughter being a lesbian has nothing to do with this, but a someone's career should. And there is also the problem of bringing this up, since Bush and Cheney have not even spoke negative about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Bush and Cheney haven't questioned Kerry's military career. If they did then it'd be disgusting. Kerry and Edwards have discussed Cheney's gay daughter Right, Bush has always classified Kerry's military service as commendable, and even said it was "more heroic" than his own. 3rd party ads are a different story. The Republican ticket uses the candidates' records, the Democrats take personal cheapshots...not suprising. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Bush and Cheney haven't questioned Kerry's military career. If they did then it'd be disgusting. Kerry and Edwards have discussed Cheney's gay daughter Right, Bush has always classified Kerry's military service as commendable, and even said it was "more heroic" than his own. 3rd party ads are a different story. The Republican ticket uses the candidates' records, the Democrats take personal cheapshots...not suprising. The fact that the SBVT folks have done what they have, and this new Sinclair Broadcasting idea, are undeniably sickening... However, Bush has been very respectful of Kerry's service personally...and Kerry/Edwards have made the lesbian comments outright, and is thus even more wrong on that level. Maybe these lesbian remarks should have been left to a moveon.org ad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justice 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Bush and Cheney haven't questioned Kerry's military career. If they did then it'd be disgusting. Kerry and Edwards have discussed Cheney's gay daughter Right, Bush has always classified Kerry's military service as commendable, and even said it was "more heroic" than his own. 3rd party ads are a different story. The Republican ticket uses the candidates' records, the Democrats take personal cheapshots...not suprising. The fact that the SBVT folks have done what they have, and this new Sinclair Broadcasting idea, are undeniably sickening... However, Bush has been very respectful of Kerry's service personally...and Kerry/Edwards have made the lesbian comments outright, and is thus even more wrong on that level. Maybe these lesbian remarks should have been left to a moveon.org ad... Snuff, I might be a little drunk (4 beers in 40 minutes will do that to ya), but I find myself liking you more and more. I dunno what the hell you did, but you've really sort of turned into the Libertarian you've always claimed you were. Sorry to have doubted you. I dunno why this is relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'm bored and I felt like typing that. Go Team Self-Esteem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted October 14, 2004 What Powerplay said, except I'm drunker than he is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. S£im Citrus 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 4 beers in 40 minutes? Damn Judge, slow down and taste it, why don't you? Kids today don't know how to appreciate alcohol properly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Bush and Cheney haven't questioned Kerry's military career. If they did then it'd be disgusting. Kerry and Edwards have discussed Cheney's gay daughter Right, Bush has always classified Kerry's military service as commendable, and even said it was "more heroic" than his own. 3rd party ads are a different story. The Republican ticket uses the candidates' records, the Democrats take personal cheapshots...not suprising. The fact that the SBVT folks have done what they have, and this new Sinclair Broadcasting idea, are undeniably sickening... However, Bush has been very respectful of Kerry's service personally...and Kerry/Edwards have made the lesbian comments outright, and is thus even more wrong on that level. Maybe these lesbian remarks should have been left to a moveon.org ad... Snuff, I might be a little drunk (4 beers in 40 minutes will do that to ya), but I find myself liking you more and more. I dunno what the hell you did, but you've really sort of turned into the Libertarian you've always claimed you were. Sorry to have doubted you. I dunno why this is relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'm bored and I felt like typing that. Go Team Self-Esteem. There are a few things I disagree with the Libertarian Party on, most importantly being the need for a higher minimum wage. My feelings that Bush has made far too many mistakes, and that is why I have departed from my own party this year to work for the Kerry/Edwards campaign....but things like the Cheney daughter comments, and Edwards saying Kerry can cure everything are really frustrating for me... I dont like propaganda bullshit on any level, and that includes SBVT and moveon.org...Id include F-911, but I havent even bothered to watch it yet. And I dont like taking shots at a man's family like tonight/VP debate...its senseless and wrong, especially considering how respectful Bush/Cheney have been in this regards... And, I feel Bush/Cheney are very wrong, but I have tried to maintain respect for their positions and their personal character. Unfortunately, doing this around my fellow Kerry/Edwards supporters has often gotten me in trouble Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Powerplay: "I don't know if it's the beer talking...but, I love you man!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) The one debate I watched in its entirety and it had to be the worst....it was boring. I found myself agreeing with Bush more often than Kerry, on most of the questions he was asked, though. Edited October 14, 2004 by Highland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Powerplay: "I don't know if it's the beer talking...but, I love you man!" I wish I was drunk right now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Was I the only one in the chat room not getting drunk tonight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Was I the only one in the chat room not getting drunk tonight? Possibly... Much like watching Green Bay football or Red Sox baseball, debates require an ample amount of booze... My favorite choices - Strawberry/Peppermint schnaaps or a gallon jug of wine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 14, 2004 True. This was a horrible night to be sober. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justice 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Powerplay: "I don't know if it's the beer talking...but, I love you man!" Hey, don't put words in my mouth! I didn't say that... did I? No, I didn't. So do what I say, not what you interpret I did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 I just watched the entire debate on tape sober....god help me, I want to cry. Sorry, but anyone who thinks Cheney's daughter is fair game when Kerry/Edwards are really doing nothing in regards to the gay marriage issue that Bush and Co wasn't prepared to do is a constant and pointless cheap shot. It makes me dislike the Democrats more and more every day. If I didn't have a deep rooted dislike for Republicans and a genuine fear of Ashcroft, I'd might vote for Bush. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 I dont like propaganda bullshit on any level, and that includes SBVT and moveon.org...Id include F-911, but I havent even bothered to watch it yet. And I dont like taking shots at a man's family like tonight/VP debate...its senseless and wrong, especially considering how respectful Bush/Cheney have been in this regards... Kerry: What do you mean? The Swift Boat ads were funded by Bush! Tonight's debate==geez, they basically took the last debates, put them in a blender, and blew out that chunk. I thought it was about domestic issues, but it didn't stay that way, and both guys were basically on cruise control. Bush seemed to really come out a loser on a lot of the questions, though, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 They both seemed heavily medicated, Bush on amphetamines and Kerry on valium... of course, I'm not in the most clear state right now either, so who knows? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob E Dangerously 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 I wasn't getting drunk. But I don't drink. If this election keeps going like this.. I might have a reason to start doing some narcotic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 If this election keeps going like this.. I might have a reason to start doing some narcotic If the last few weeks of the campaign are as dull as tonight's debate...I may have to start sniffing down the white path of my hero Teddy Kennedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justice 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 If this election keeps going like this.. I might have a reason to start doing some narcotic If the last few weeks of the campaign are as dull as tonight's debate...I may have to start sniffing down the white path of my hero Teddy Kennedy. Your hero is Ted Kennedy? For shame. #12 Beer. w00t. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 If this election keeps going like this.. I might have a reason to start doing some narcotic If the last few weeks of the campaign are as dull as tonight's debate...I may have to start sniffing down the white path of my hero Teddy Kennedy. Your hero is Ted Kennedy? For shame. #12 Beer. w00t. Not really...but his life is pretty entertaining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 I must add, after rewatching the debate late tonight (a little south of sober), the handshaking at the end was about the most respectful Ive ever seen after a Presidential Debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jesse_ewiak 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 You guys are aware it's not like Mary Cheyney isn't in the closet, right? Andrew Sullivan put it best.. I keep getting emails asserting that Kerry's mentioning of Mary Cheney is somehow offensive or gratuitous or a "low blow". Huh? Mary Cheney is out of the closet and a member, with her partner, of the vice-president's family. That's a public fact. No one's privacy is being invaded by mentioning this. When Kerry cites Bush's wife or daughters, no one says it's a "low blow." The double standards are entirely a function of people's lingering prejudice against gay people. And by mentioning it, Kerry showed something important. This issue is not an abstract one. It's a concrete, human and real one. It affects many families, and Bush has decided to use this cynically as a divisive weapon in an election campaign. He deserves to be held to account for this - and how much more effective than showing a real person whose relationship and dignity he has attacked and minimized? Does this makes Bush's base uncomfortable? Well, good. It's about time they were made uncomfortable in their acquiescence to discrimination. Does it make Bush uncomfortable? Even better. His decision to bar gay couples from having any protections for their relationships in the constitution is not just a direct attack on the family member of the vice-president. It's an attack on all families with gay members - and on the family as an institution. That's a central issue in this campaign, a key indictment of Bush's record and more than relevant to any debate. For four years, this president has tried to make gay people invisible, to avoid any mention of us, to pretend we don't exist. Well, we do. Right in front of him. As for the actual debate, the thing that surprised me was that Kerry killed Bush on the assault weapons ban question and seemed toughter than Bush on immigration. I mean, he flubbed the wife question, but obviously, a question like that is more important than say...the environment. Plus, the Tony Soprano quote was pretty damn good. However, Bush made the big gaffe... GAFFE WATCH....I have to believe the biggest gaffe of the night was Bush's when he said: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those ex-a-gger-ations. Of course, two years ago he said exactly that: I don’t know where he is. Nor — you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I....I truly am not that concerned about him. Bush's statement was obviously a lie, and it lends itself so well to a video comparison that it's probably going to get played over and over and over. It was a big mistake to give news and talk shows such a good excuse to play that old video again. Here's the thing, in all three polls, Kerry won. Critically, independents went for Kerry 42 - 35 percent in the ABCNews poll. If these numbers hold, and the impression solidifies that Kerry won all three debates, Bush is in trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 I might be a little drunk (4 beers in 40 minutes will do that to ya) Well, not to me. I'm in college, so my alcohol tolerance is fucking huge right now. Anyway. as someone who sent away their absentee ballot today with the little box for Michael Badnarik filled in under "President of the United States", and someone who thought Bush won the first debate pretty handily, I really thought Kerry won the debate tonight. He spoke confidently and succinctly into the camera, and generally seemed much more self-assured than the President. Bush kept giving that stupid smile and those stupid pauses, and really kind of undermined his own credibility. I still agreed with Bush on a few more of the points raised, but I thought that from a fairly stupid undecided voter's perspective, Kerry looked much much better tonight. Of course, I did start the debate late, and then switch over to the baseball game a couple times, but from what I saw, Kerry was a strong winner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 as someone who thought Bush won the first debate pretty handily Damn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2004 Sorry, but anyone who thinks Cheney's daughter is fair game when Kerry/Edwards are really doing nothing in regards to the gay marriage issue that Bush and Co wasn't prepared to do is a constant and pointless cheap shot. It wasn't that he was trying to "out" Cheney's daughter. It's been pretty well covered that she's been pretty visible about it already. He also wasn't trying to attack Cheney for having a gay daughter, he was attacking Cheney for denying his daughter rights that he has. It was a shot to the character of the Vice President, not his daughter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
