Do the Democrats need a makeover?

[Guest Brian]

I read somewheree, from an exerpt in a book written long before the election, that the shift toward morals and the loss of the mid-west was a part of Clinton's support of free trade, and the fact that people were esssentially being disenfranchised and had nothing to fall back on but moral grounds. Interesting theory.

[Special K 0]

SOMEONE has to come out who's small government. Maybe McCain? I don't give a fuck who the Dems nominate, if McCain's on the ticket, I'm voting for him.

[Guest Cerebus]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

[Vyce 0]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

The only reason Terry's still around, I figure, is because he's buddies with the Clintons and Hillary, as of now at least, has to be considered the frontrunner for a 2008 nomination.

 

Otherwise, his ass would have been gone by like, TODAY.

[teke184 0]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

The only reason Terry's still around, I figure, is because he's buddies with the Clintons and Hillary, as of now at least, has to be considered the frontrunner for a 2008 nomination.

 

Otherwise, his ass would have been gone by like, TODAY.

He may not be around for long...

 

 

After the abortions that were the 2002 mid-term elections and the 2004 Presidential, House, and Senate elections, Terry may be joining Daschle in the unemployment line and Nancy Pelosi may get told to "shut the fuck up and go sit in the corner."

[Guest thebigjig]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

Ah... so I guess you were expecting him, the leader of the DNC, to say "well to be honest, we're fucked"

 

Jesus you guys baffle me sometimes

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Hillary, as of now at least, has to be considered the frontrunner for a 2008 nomination.

I'm betting those plans are TOAST now. Hillary comes with way too much baggage to be able to campaign. The only way I'd enjoy is if the GOP ran Rudy, because then both candidates have way too many scandals to be able to attack each other properly. ("Well, when MY husband cheated on me, at least he didn't throw me out of the house!")

 

I think Terry's days are numbered, we're just letting him sit so that when we do let him go, it doesn't look directly related to the election.

 

I think the whole Clinton dynasty died this week. It's time to try something new.

[Guest thebigjig]

The Democrats have gotta go with someone that will appeal to moderates and independents... the swing voters. Hillary would be picked apart for being too liberal, much more so than Kerry or even Dean

[Guest Cerebus]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

Ah... so I guess you were expecting him, the leader of the DNC, to say "well to be honest, we're fucked"

 

Jesus you guys baffle me sometimes

More along the lines of "We suffered a setback, but its only one election and I remain positive about the future." Would be fine.

 

This is along the lines of "I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly."

[teke184 0]

The Democrats have gotta go with someone that will appeal to moderates and independents... the swing voters. Hillary would be picked apart for being too liberal, much more so than Kerry or even Dean

True, BigJig, but the party leadership is overwhelmingly leftist.

 

Unless a centrist gets both popular support and financial support going into Iowa and New Hampshire, they'll be drowned out in favor of someone who reflects the values of their leadership... overly leftist Democrats from New England or the West Coast.

 

 

Evan Baigh of Indiana has been brought up as a centrist because he just got re-elected with about 70% support, but something tells me he isn't a party favorite.

[Guest thebigjig]

"We're (the Democrats) are the best shape we've ever been in!" - Terry McAullife.

 

Man this guy is a source of endless comedy. He's like the American Baghdad Bob!

Ah... so I guess you were expecting him, the leader of the DNC, to say "well to be honest, we're fucked"

 

Jesus you guys baffle me sometimes

More along the lines of "We suffered a setback, but its only one election and I remain positive about the future." Would be fine.

 

This is along the lines of "I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly."

I never thought you of all people would be prone to melodrama... all I see is typical political spin... ridiculous but predictable and hardly even worth mentioning period

[Guest Cerebus]

It's not melodrama. All I"m trying to say is that there is a difference between optimism and statements that everyone knows is a ludicrous lie. One is encouraging the other just elicits laughter from one side and head shaking from the other.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think the Republicans should go out and get Michael Jordan.

 

Seriously.

 

I don't really know what the Dems can do, Kerry was a wuss for the most part, they need someone who has a lot more conviction as to what he believes. Bush basically bitched out Kerry while Kerry just stood there and took it. If they get someone who actually seems to look confident and strong in what he does, then perhaps that could appeal to the common man, who at least wants the president to LOOK like he is a great leader.

 

Who that would be I don't know.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Michael Jordan is a Democrat. He refused to visit Bush I at the White House after his Bulls won the title, and he has pimped liberals in the past...

[Guest Cerebus]

Well maybe he should run on the Democratic ticket. Jordan vs. Guilliani 08~!

[The Czech Republic 0]

Even though Jordan seems to be a Democrat, he really doesn't much like politics. It certainly doesn't seem like he's as active as somebody of his stature would be, you know?

 

 

EDIT: I smell marijuana coming through my radiator

[Guest Brian]

Jordan won't get involved in politics because he's afraid it'll hurt sales. He was asked to run against Strom a long while back, and refused because "Republicans buy shoes too".

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Republicans buy them.

 

Democrats steal them from the Republicans...

[TheBigSwigg 0]

The religious vote is what made this election, hands down. The Republicans know how to play to this crowd. A majority of evangelicals have the "us vs. them" mentality. All it took was the spread of the term "Conservative Christian" over the past 10 yrs + and the Republicans have the vote of a majority of Southerners, and most of the Midwest as well. Democrats will have to find a way to get through that.

 

And have more balls. REALLY. How many shots did Bush give Kerry that Kerry simply ignored? I can't count how many times Bush said something in the debates that opened HUGE doors for Kerry that he walked right past. We can't fuck around. We have to be dead serious about our politics, because the Republicans are.

 

That and John Edwards was a wasteful effort at VP.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

But Kerry said him and Edwards were a "dream" ticket.

 

A majority of evangelicals have the "us vs. them" mentality.

 

And a number of liberal groups don't have this mentality?...

[Guest thebigjig]

But Kerry said him and Edwards were a "dream" ticket.

 

A majority of evangelicals have the "us vs. them" mentality.

 

And a number of liberal groups don't have this mentality?...

Of course... but it's really difficult to argue political points with someone who just uses "jesus votes Republican" as a counter

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

How about just saying "Jesus was a Democrat"?...

[Guest thebigjig]

How about just saying "Jesus was a Democrat"?...

Jesus was above politics plain and simple.

 

Whenever someone tells me that they think God wants George W. Bush in the White House, I respond with "Don't you think God, as virtuous as he is, is ABOVE politics?"

 

The very nature of politics goes against everything that God stands for

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

When someone uses God in their political reasoning I usually just zone out and think happy thoughts, much like I do with a few posters at this place...

[The Czech Republic 0]

I'm fine with saying that Judeo-Christian moral principles are a good thing for the country, but saying "God votes Republican" is stupid.

[2GOLD 0]

I honestly don't know what the Democrats are going to do cause I still don't think they get it at all.

 

The worst nightmare for the Democrats is if G.W Bush actually turns things around and makes the US better than ever. Then I don't know what the hell they'll do. See if Tom Cruise wants to run I'd guess.

[Guest MikeSC]

I honestly don't know what the Democrats are going to do cause I still don't think they get it at all.

 

The worst nightmare for the Democrats is if G.W Bush actually turns things around and makes the US better than ever. Then I don't know what the hell they'll do. See if Tom Cruise wants to run I'd guess.

I could post today's rant from Slate where the mindset of a LOT of liberals is in full effect.

 

In fact, I think I will. I could put up crap from EJ Dionne, Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, etc --- it wouldn't be any different. It simply shows that a lot on the left totally don't get it.

I say forget introspection. It's time to be honest about our antagonists. My predecessors in this conversation are thoughtful men, and I honor their ideas, but let's try something else. I grew up in Missouri and most of my family voted for Bush, so I am going to be the one to say it: The election results reflect the decision of the right wing to cultivate and exploit ignorance in the citizenry. I suppose the good news is that 55 million Americans have evaded the ignorance-inducing machine. But 58 million have not. (Well, almost 58 million—my relatives are not ignorant, they are just greedy and full of classic Republican feelings of superiority.)

 

Ignorance and bloodlust have a long tradition in the United States, especially in the red states. There used to be a kind of hand-to-hand fight on the frontier called a "knock-down-drag-out," where any kind of gouging, biting, or maiming was considered fair. The ancestors of today's red-state voters used to stand around cheering and betting on these fights. When the forces of red and blue encountered one another head-on for the first time in Kansas Territory in 1856, the red forces from Missouri, who had been coveting Indian land across the Missouri River since 1820, entered Kansas and stole the territorial election. The red news media of the day made a practice of inflammatory lying—declaring that the blue folks had shot and killed red folks whom everyone knew were walking around. The worst civilian massacre in American history took place in Lawrence, Kan., in 1862—Quantrill's raid. The red forces, known then as the slave-power, pulled 265 unarmed men from their beds on a Sunday morning and slaughtered them in front of their wives and children. The error that progressives have consistently committed over the years is to underestimate the vitality of ignorance in America. Listen to what the red state citizens say about themselves, the songs they write, and the sermons they flock to. They know who they are—they are full of original sin and they have a taste for violence. The blue state citizens make the Rousseauvian mistake of thinking humans are essentially good, and so they never realize when they are about to be slugged from behind.

 

Here is how ignorance works: First, they put the fear of God into you—if you don't believe in the literal word of the Bible, you will burn in hell. Of course, the literal word of the Bible is tremendously contradictory, and so you must abdicate all critical thinking, and accept a simple but logical system of belief that is dangerous to question. A corollary to this point is that they make sure you understand that Satan resides in the toils and snares of complex thought and so it is best not try it.

 

Next, they tell you that you are the best of a bad lot (humans, that is) and that as bad as you are, if you stick with them, you are among the chosen. This is flattering and reassuring, and also encourages you to imagine the terrible fates of those you envy and resent. American politicians ALWAYS operate by a similar sort of flattery, and so Americans are never induced to question themselves. That's what happened to Jimmy Carter—he asked Americans to take responsibility for their profligate ways, and promptly lost to Ronald Reagan, who told them once again that they could do anything they wanted. The history of the last four years shows that red state types, above all, do not want to be told what to do—they prefer to be ignorant. As a result, they are virtually unteachable.

 

Third, and most important, when life grows difficult or fearsome, they (politicians, preachers, pundits) encourage you to cling to your ignorance with even more fervor. But by this time you don't need much encouragement—you've put all your eggs into the ignorance basket, and really, some kind of miraculous fruition (preferably accompanied by the torment of your enemies, and the ignorant always have plenty of enemies) is your only hope. If you are sufficiently ignorant, you won't even know how dangerous your policies are until they have destroyed you, and then you can always blame others.

 

The reason the Democrats have lost five of the last seven presidential elections is simple: A generation ago, the big capitalists, who have no morals, as we know, decided to make use of the religious right in their class war against the middle class and against the regulations that were protecting those whom they considered to be their rightful prey—workers and consumers. The architects of this strategy knew perfectly well that they were exploiting, among other unsavory qualities, a long American habit of virulent racism, but they did it anyway, and we see the outcome now—Cheney is the capitalist arm and Bush is the religious arm. They know no boundaries or rules. They are predatory and resentful, amoral, avaricious, and arrogant. Lots of Americans like and admire them because lots of Americans, even those who don't share those same qualities, don't know which end is up. Can the Democrats appeal to such voters? Do they want to? The Republicans have sold their souls for power. Must everyone?

 

Progressives have only one course of action now: React quickly to every outrage—red state types love to cheat and intimidate, so we have to assume the worst and call them on it every time. We have to give them more to think about than they can handle—to always appeal to reason and common sense, and the law, even when they can't understand it and don't respond. They cannot be allowed to keep any secrets. Tens of millions of people didn't vote—they are watching, too, and have to be shown that we are ready and willing to fight, and that the battle is worth fighting. And in addition, we have to remember that threats to democracy from the right always collapse. Whatever their short-term appeal, they are borne of hubris and hatred, and will destroy their purveyors in the end.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109218/

Yeah, they figured it out.

-=Mike

[2GOLD 0]

Ok, if this is the view of the entire Democratic party...then they have lost their minds and SHOULD see if Alan Keyes wants to join.

 

You'd think the intelligent Democrats would jump ship and try to build up an Independent party to counteract the insanity within their party.

 

The party is in a sinking ship and the leaders are asking them to throw weights in the boat. Who would have thought the line by Leslie Nielsen in Naked Gun 2 1/2 would become TRUE again?

 

The Democrats need another Southern everyday man like Clinton. It is their only hope.

[Guest MikeSC]

Ok, if this is the view of the entire Democratic party...then they have lost their minds and SHOULD see if Alan Keyes wants to join.

 

You'd think the intelligent Democrats would jump ship and try to build up an Independent party to counteract the insanity within their party.

 

The party is in a sinking ship and the leaders are asking them to throw weights in the boat. Who would have thought the line by Leslie Nielsen in Naked Gun 2 1/2 would become TRUE again?

 

The Democrats need another Southern everyday man like Clinton. It is their only hope.

If they'll pay me enough, I'll do it.

-=Mike

...The idea of people like C-Bacon having to support me because they hate the Republicans would be amusing...

[The Czech Republic 0]

Well, Mike, thanks. That column has my blood boiling quite sufficiently for the day. By their red=uneducated God-lovin' hicks, blue=educated elite argument, FUCKING WISCONSIN is a bastion of education and free thinking!